Subject: Re: The Minoan Linear A Language?
From: Baron Szabo
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 13:15:07 -0700
Upon rereading this last post of mine, I have become arrested with
horror at my own ability to absolutely suck at communicating! I started
writing my last post with the idea that I didn't want to participate
furthur and take the proper time to make my points. However, as I wrote
and responded to Bill's post I changed my mind, and decided to start
posting at least some citations for Near Eastern influence, etc. This
must have appeared confused and amateurish, but then very much of what I
say does! :)
To any whoever it might possibly concern:
Please accept my apology for lousy, non-sequitorial posting, and my
promise that I will try to be more consistent and clear, as well as
committed, in the future, if anybody would like to continue to tear my
theory apart....
Thanks. Regards.
---
Oh yeah. My latest position is STILL reflected in the last post in the
thread. I have tidied it up, removing obsolete words, so you can see
that I have shown evidence of Near Eastern influence that you were
questioning,
Also, my news host has lost the other posts that had been made. I was
looking forward to answering them but they went missing! Please
consider reposting them, although I will DejaNews them out if I have to!
--
zoomQuake - A nifty, concise listing of over 200 ancient history links.
Copy the linklist page if you want! (do not publish though)
----------> http://www.iceonline.com/home/peters5/
Subject: Hands Off Those Relics!
From: Saida
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 15:25:11 -0500
Two military trumpets were found in the tomb of Tutankhamun--one of
beaten silver with mouthpiece of gold, the other of copper or bronze ane
electrum overlaid in part with sheet gold. Musicologist, Hans Hickman,
described the sound they produced as "raucous and powerful...recalling
the timbre of a medieval trombone or primitive horn than that of a
trumpet or cornet." Since these instruments had obviously not been
played for thousands of years, the BBC decided to coordinate the
stirring occasion of having one produce its first noise in a couple of
millenia (indeed, perhaps its first sound ever) on a radio broadcast in
1939. Somehow they got hold of the silver trumpet (perhaps somehow a
symbolic call to arms for Britain) and gave it to one Bandsman Tappern
to play upon with a modern mouthpiece inserted. Tapperns gave a toot
(or two) whereupon Tut's silver trumpet promptly shattered! Bandsman
Tappern was quoted as saying "I really blew it that time, blast it!"
Just kidding about the quote, but the rest of the story is true. I
found the basic info in Nicholas Reeves' "The Complete Tutankhamun".
The copper (or bronze) trumpet was blown in 1939 and 1941 under
circumstances unknown to me but is, presumably, still in one piece.
If anyone else knows of any places, things, or people that survived for
ages until their Nemesis came along, this is the place to post it, as
I'd be very interested to know about it.
Subject: Re: ABC & racist pseudoscience
From: taranr <>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 19:03:39 GMT
>
> Martin Stower wrote:
>
> > Steve_Graham@setanta.ac.ie (Steve Graham) wrote:
>
> [. . .]
>
> > >I think that von Daniken's emphasis on non-European sites was more
> > >because he could only spin theories where facts were sparse and his
> > >readership was unfamiliar with the subject.
> > >By using examples remote from Europe and North America, he could sell
> > >his books in Europe and North America...
>
> > >My opinion: Not a Nazi, just a buffoon.
>
> > A vulgarian repeating vulgar prejudice, and recycling a genre stuffed
with
> > vulgar prejudice.
Jiri Mruzek wrote:
Danniken's only semi-original idea is not that we were visited by
Aliens, but that they had engineered us genetically. Such idea
translates to a vulgarity from many a viewpoint. E.v.D also omits
to include the Apes in the said gen. engineering to account for
the tiny difference between the genes of humans and chimpanzees.
Curiously, at the time of Daniken's going public, it was fashionable
to discuss the inevitability of genetical engineering in order
to "improve" one's populations to compete with other rival nations
also "improving" their own standards.
On the whole, such theories strike me by their introduction of
artificial differences into humankind.
Imagine that everyone believes E.v.D.'s theory of "improvement
through genetical ingineering": Then, how do you account for racial
differences, and for differences between many other subgroups?
Who is the "Latest Model"? Who was designed primarily as a slave?
Such beliefs would indeed quickly lead to attitudes, which humanists
don't see as pretty..
IMO, Danniken's rise to stardom was due not so much to his books,
as to his TV-film.
Jiri
> ==============Bob Tarantino, 10/7/96=============
> What Von Danniken appeals to is our sense of a lost history.
Bob!
Erich makes sure the lost history stays that way. He knows of my
discovery since 1985. I have a 1985-form letter from him to prove
it. Then our paths crossed again in 91, when he visited Prague,
and was apprised of my existence by a group of his fans, the AAA,
with which I had some dealings, and one of whose members (Mrs.
Zdenka Hruba) had asked me to analyse the image of the Nasca Monkey.
This was a stroke of luck on the order of winning a lottery.
Danniken like Hancock, etc., insists on ignoring my discovery.
He is the enemy - the wolf in sheep's clothing. He is the grey
eminence behind the IAC(tm)..
In retrospect: How much did talk of Ancient Mathematics intensify
since 1985? Don't we hear a lot more of it now? What happens?
When these fellows check out my discovery at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jiri_mruzek/
their suspicions on Lost Science are confirmed, and willy-nilly
they will strive to see the reflections of the same science in
relatively recent artifacts like the Great Pyramid. They try twice
as hard to find some proof, while they are in the spotlight,
knowing as they do that tomorrow my Science-Art will steal
the show.
> His opinions
> seem to upset some people, but it is without a doubt that previous cultures
> had knowledge that is beyond our own, while living a primitive lifestyle by
> our standards.
By our standards of imagination. I tell you, there are images of
castles, and other structures like pyramids in Magdalenian art
of 14,000 years ago. No-one sees them, because no-one invests
much effort into seeing through the complex-style of the engraver(s).
This is pure discrimination of course - age-discrimination..
So, when you next read of indecipherable tangles of engraved lines
by Magdalenian artists, remember not to believe the interpretation
that these tangles are formed by individual images without any
intended correspondence to each other.
The truth is completely opposite. Whether it is stunning or not,
these tangles obey rules. Each tangle represents one single opus.
It is easy to tell a single work of art, no matter, how complex
it may be, from a chaotic agglomeration of separate images.
You may read more about this on my webpages.
I don't for a moment think that these people (or Aliens) lived in
caves, nor do I think that they lacked comfort. In scope, the complex-
style palaeolithic art requires elements, which are simply unthinkable
in a non-hi-tech environment. For one there was miniaturisation.
The accuracy of the Engraving of "Cinderella" at life-size exceeds
the normal limits of good human vision. Thus, there must have been
magnification, to say the least.
Having detected a direct relation between Magdalenian La Marche,
and Peruvian Nasca, I have done something remarkable.
My discovery should be debunked, or it should be marveled at, but
in no case it should be ignored. Someone should open the book
of truth for me and show me my errors, or admit the validity of
my ways of doing research.
> It may be true that the Egyptians and the Mayans were not
> helped by extraterrestials, but it is a possibility whether we think it is
> likely or not. There are five caves in France with cigar shaped drawings
on
> the ceilings, which could be interpreted to be flying saucers, one in which
I
> have seen is quite disturbing since it shows two craft and one with a
v-shaped
> formation of dots comming from the end as to signify flight or movement.
> These drawing are over 10,000 years old and resemble a UFO in a photograph
> taken in New Jersey in 1952 of a UFO.
If you like this, why don't you like my webpages? Because they back
the validity of Magdalenian sub-images by the presence of mathematics
therein?
I am always amazed that people like you - potential backers of my discovery -
give up before the wrongly perceived complexity of it.
> Also, it is not out of the question that the human race has been
genetically
> altered based on our knowledge of evolution. There are genetisists who
agree
> with the theory and there is I believe a controversy in the scientific
> community concerning Lucy, which is the remains found by Dr. Leaky. I
would
> argue that we are involved in genetic engineering right now. I have heard
> that human cells have been cloned in France and that people with certain
> disorders refrain from having children because of our predictions from
> technology is well known. Are there no sperm banks with donor profiles?
Jiri Mruzek also wrote:
That is all theoretically possible, but highly unlikely. We should
refrain from vouching for unlikely versions of history. For example,
odds of probability work for my discovery, and not otherwise.
Genetic engineering is stupid, as it will result in weakening the
human race, by directing it into inferior artificial channels,
rather than running it through the Mills of God!
BTW, to refrain from having children is not genetical engineering, etc.
Jiri
==========================
I do not pretend to be an expert on Von Danniken's claims and have not read
all of his book. Also I could not really comment on your opinion of what is
really going on here. But I have come to some conclusions based on what Von
Danniken has pointed out. That is that the Mayans must have had an extensive
knowledge of astronomy. Also, there were some stones found a few years ago
with pictures on them clearly showing what appears to be a telescope being
used and people performing brain surgury. I know that skulls have been found
in I believe Peru showing that brain surgury was performed on live patients.
These stones, which I think were found also in Peru, have been said to be a
hoax, but that may have been done so that the person who found them could sell
them without government intervention, which he did.
I would not say that such phenomena as the Nazca lines is for Alien landings
strips, eventhough the top of one mountain there has been completely leveled
off. These things are left for interpretation. However, it is indisputible
that many ancient cultures had knowledge beyond our own. Many of these
ancient structures clearly show blocks weighing tons which fit so precisly
that a piece of paper could not squeeze in between. Today, even with the
largest and most modern equipment, this would not be possible. There was a
man who built a type of castle out of corel in I think Florida around the turn
of the century in which a rocking chair was built weighing over a ton. Also,
a revolving door of similar weight that could be pushed with a single finger,
that it was balanced so perfectly on a rod going through it. He built the
castle for someone he was in love with. Having been jilited, he died of a
broken heart and took his secrets to the grave since he would never work
around anyone else.
Today, as far as genetic engineering goes, if we selectively breed, then it is
race engineering. We are absolutely involved in genetic engineering today.
Alterations made in a test tube are not necessary to accomplish this, despite
this being done also. I agree. It is monsterous.
-bob tarantino
Subject: Re: Pyramids and Aliens
From: 1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:09:28 -0400
In article <53b8g2$tb1@nic.win.hookup.net>, pbannerm@icis.on.ca (Paula) wrote:
: 1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy) wrote:
:
: >In article <530dhg$aq9@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, Martin Stower wrote:
:
: >: If you have a better explanation for that sarcophagus, I'd be interested
: >: to hear it.
:
: >Frank thinks that is where the Kings had an afternoon nap!
: >What can I say!
: >Have a good day,
:
: >Hussein
:
: Now....these are the sort of responses that keep me coming back to
: this newsgroup ;-). After wading through all the alien space ship,
: conspiracy like clap trap on the group, occasionally, you get some
: humour, and sometimes you even get some facts.......;-). Of course
: sometimes I'm so busy rolling on the floor with hysteria I'm too busy
: to notice either.....
Paula,
Thank you for the kind words ;-)
You have made my day! Have a good one!
Hussein
--
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the
mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).
Subject: Re: Father=Creator=Pater=Ptah=Pitar...Craftah...krft
From: whittet@shore.net (Steve Whittet)
Date: 9 Oct 1996 22:16:31 GMT
In article , fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
says...
>
>There is absolutely no relationship between the word Ptah and "father" in
>Egyptian.
We are not talking father in the sense of dad, but father in the sense
of our father who art in heaven, a creator or sky father.
The word for the deity Ptah was rendered by the p+t+dotted h
>alphabetic hieroglyphs, followed by divine determinative.
1.)Was the deity Ptah considered to be the "father of all fathers"?
Budge, "Gods of the Egyptians" "Ptah the Artificer", P 501
yes or no?
> "Father" was written i+t+f, again all alphabetic signs plus male
>determinative.The f is considered a defective spelling sign, as
>the Coptic form for "father"is eiot, that fits the first two glyphs,
>reedleaf plus t-loaf, but not the f-horned viper. So, the spellings are
>utterly different, and there is no realtionship between the two words.
Ok, that we are agreed on.
2.)Is there another sense in which we use the word father?
yes or no?
>For that mater, Ptah was a late addition to the creation myths.
So was the Biblical our father who art in heaven,
3.)Did the use of Ptah as a word for the spirit of creation
by the Egyptians predate the use of the word father in the
Biblical sense? Yes or no?
> The original creator, Re-Atum is credited by Middle Kingdom
>texts, with creating humans, "in his own image and likeness",
>a reference found in Merykare, the Teaching for, and in
>a Coffin Text, both in Lichtheim, Ancient Egyptian Literature, vol 1,
>Berkeley-Los Angeles, University of California, 1973.
4.)So if Ptah was in the tradition at a later rather than an
earlier point, was the concept with Ptah in it transmitted to
the Judaeo Christian Moslem concept of our father...? Yes or no.
>
>Frank J. Yurco
steve