Bryan Atherton wrote: > Eli, If there is so much error in the findings of past and present > scholars, why should you be correct, you yourself claim that you are a > voice going unheard, if you were correct in your claims and had any > trace of proof your talk would not fall on deaf ears! Why should we > listen to you (no offence) but i need more than what sounds like mere > speculation. > P.S. I dont think anyone threw away the Bible, they just said it was > interperated by "dunderheads". John's voice and Jesus' voice fell on deaf ears too. Was it because it was all bull or speculative? What about Moses speaking for ALL the Israelites (most not wanting him) and speaking to ALL of Egypt, its rulers, and scholars. I understand your position of questioning. There are certainly a lot of unheard little guys out there who ARE full of crap. So ask me questions...not the usual YOU ARE WRONG rebuttals, but questions for you to see the bigger picture of what I have found. Afterall, I cant drag an Atlantic iceberg into your home, much less show you the whole thing 90% underwater. Have to get in my sub to see that, and submerging takes humility. If I can lower myself to read your books to discover what YOU have overlooked, why cant you lower yourself to accept that maybe I found something you skipped over ! ************ A voice crying out and going unheard, http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/myPhoto.gif (40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24 elijah@wi.net Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at http://www.execpc.com/~elijah God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996. http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gifReturn to Top
sudsm@aol.com (SUDSM) wrote: > >Baron & Charlie, >. > Why shouldn't some of them be tombs and some just monuments? >The problem is in confusing the Great Pyramid with "the pyramids". >The GP was not and could not have been a tomb. There is no >decoration of any kind anywhere within the GP. That is >inconceivable for a tomb. It is difficult enough to conceive that >it was even Egyptian! Suds - DO ALITTLE RESEARCH - all you need is alittle to find that the pyramids of that period were all - ALL - undecorated inside. I have previously posted a list of 16 king's pyramids - including the GP - that were all undecorated on the inside. This list did not include the many minor pyramids of Dynasty III, IV, and V that were undecorated. >. > It could not have been used as a tomb anyway. The ascending >passage is sealed off by a twenty ton granite plug at its lower >end. Even correcting for subsidence and other deterioration, that >plug could not have been moved in the ascending passage. It has >to have been built in place right where it is. Since the GP was >completed at least seven years before the death of Khufu, the so- >called King's Chamber and Queen's Chamber were inaccessible for >tombs, even if the lack of decortions did not rule out such use. >. There is no - NO - evidence that the plugs were built in place. The evidence is just the opposite and indicates the only purpose of the Grand Gallery was to hold the plugs beore they were slid into place. There is a corresponding architecture in the minor pyramid to the Bent that had the same ascending passage, gallery, and plugging method. Only here, two of the four plugs did not slide into place and are still lodged at the top of the gallery. > There is no question, however, that the GP had enormous >religious significance to the Egyptians. That would explain, not >only the "spirit ship" placed there, but also the copying of its >form ever after (and all over the world) for tombs and/or >monuments. It also tends to confirm the theory that Zoser's >pyramid, and the two Sneferu pyramids, built before the GP, were >built for the purpose of developing the needed labor organizing >and building techniques, with the GP as the goal all along. This last statement ranks somewhere just the other side of silly. Do you care to propose any kind of supporting evidence??????? >. > CharlieReturn to Top
http://alamut.alamut.org/c73/kuhn/sxsmbl.htm http://www.irdg.com/pc93/kuhn.htmReturn to Top
Dear Xina and all, Nefertiti was an Egyptian, nothing more nor less. Her parentage is known, and her father was Ay, Akhenaten's courtier, who stemmed from the town of Akhmim in southern Middle Egypt. If you go to Akhmim, today, you will encounter women who look just like Nefertiti. Some are indeed as light complexioned as that Berlin head of hers. Another point, I have never used mummies to claim that Egyptians were "white". The whole "White" "black" nonsense is just so much American social construct 19th century baggage. Egyptians are Africans, north Africans to be exact, as I have repeatedly stated, from my BAR article to the present. Africa has as much diversity as any other continent. So, what's so shocking that Egyptians come in all shades of brown, from lightest to darkest. They don't get all bent out of shape by this issue, only Europeans and Americans do, but as I noted, it is because of the old American social construct that arose from the slave codes of the 19th century. It still permeates in American society. One of the greatest horror cases I recall is that an Egyptian from Edfu was classified by the Americans as "white"!!! The man was actually dark brown, as all the people in Edfu are. That shows, that it is the American view of Egyptians that is warped to a point of ridicule. The same nonsense permeates some Egyptological thinking. What study of mummies, statuary and depictions of Egyptians in antiquity shows to the unbiased, is that like today, ancient Egyptians varied from light to dark as you went north to south. Indeed, without the convenience of modern travel, in ancient times, the diversity was even sharper. Most sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago -- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.eduReturn to Top
To all who have posted on this subject: The original Egyptians were Africans. Yet, contrary to claims of some, in Africa, you have the same sort of wide diversity as there is in Europe and Asia. So, the claim that because the ancient Egyptians were Africans, a priori, they must have been black is just so much false speculation, driven by the American social construct of "black" and "white". In brief, the American social construct is: if one in eight great grandparents was African, then the individual is black. This originated with the old southern black slave codes, to deal with the problem of children of African-Euro-American mixed unions. It has nothing whatever to do with the facts of biology, and the reality of any continent's population. Thus, with the wide diversity of the African continent, yes, the Egyptians were of the North African variety. As some posters have noted their language, Egypto-Coptic belongs among the north African languages, classed as Afro-asiatic. Rightly, it was noted that Nubian and Meroitic do not belong to this language family, but Omotic and other Ethiopian-Somali languages are Afro-Asiatic. Ethnically, down the Nile today there is an extremely wide diversity, from the various brown shades of Egyptians, to the darker Nubian-Sudanese, and the very blackest people in Africa, the Silluk, Dinka, and Nuer. The Egyptians dealt extensively with the peoples of Nubia and Sudan, and in the Late-Old-Middle Kingdom, vast numbers of Nubians were recruited from Yam-Kerma, to serve as soldiers in Egypt. They were renowned as archers, recalling Nubia's ancient name Ta Seti, "Land of the Bow". Even some of very dark Sudanese appeared in Egypt, occasionally. The group of ladies buried behind Montu-hotep II's funerary complex at Deir el-Bahri had several of such very dark women, including Kemsit, Sadhe, and Ashayet. Also, the Egyptians very occasionally encountered a Twa, as when Harkhuf got one from the Chief of Yam, and excitedly reported this to Pepy II. As Pepy's return letter, that Harkhuf proudly placed in toto on the wall of his tomb at Aswan, notes, the last Twa the Egyptians had seen was one brought from Punt, by one Bawerdjed, who lived under Pharaoh Djed-ka-re Isesi in Dynasty 5. So, the Egyptians were quite cognizant of the peoples south of them. The Yam Nubians did not speak Egypto-Coptic, and so, all the Aswan governors wer also bi-lingual, and titled translators. As Uni's auto- biography shows, when such mixed Egyptian-Nubian military units went into action, there had to be translators along with the army. Eventually some of those Nubians settled in Egypt and intermarried, or brought along Nubian wives. Gradually, they learned Egyptian, had funerary stelas made, and so, as Henry Fischer's article in Kush 8 (1961) noted, they became a reular presence in the population of southern and middle Egypt. Thus, yes there were contacts and even migration from the south into Egypt, but the earliest predynastic cultures arose distinctly in southern Upper Egypt, between Nubt and Nekhen, and a distinct Delta group of cultures also. In late Naqada II-Early III, the A-Group arose in Lower Nubia, that is, First to Second Nile cataract area. These A-Group were a mixture of Abkan indigenous Nubians and Naqadan Egyptians, and when their first writing appears, it is Egypto-Coptic, and their iconography was pharaonic, as the Qustul cemetery excavations showed. That is the furthest south Egyptian culture went. The Khartoum Meso and Neolithic culture was distinct, in pottery, and in other traditions. Only in the remotest Pre-Dynastic, is Badarian pottery somewhat akin to Khartoum Neolithic. The strongest migration patterns in the early Predynastic were east-west. As the Sahara dessicated slowly, many Saharamns migrated into Egypt and Nubia. So, those are the common ancestors of both the Badarians and the Khartoum Neolithic, and indeed, Saharan pottery is similar to both Khartoum Neolithic and Badarian. So, the idea that the Egyptians came from somewhere way south of Nubia- Sudan, is again, just speculation and mis-information. Most sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago -- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.eduReturn to Top
In article <3274E9E4.2749@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>, SaidaReturn to Topwrote: [cut] : Butros-Ghali is a Copt, which makes him a descendant of the ancient : Egyptians. Would I classify him as white? Well, he's not black. He : should be whatever he wants to be. My guess is he would say "I am an : Egyptian." [cut] Saida, Not trying to start another war, but I hope you were not implying that only the Copts are descendents of ancient Egyptians. My belief is that present day Egyptians regardless of religion are descendants of the ancient ones. Have a good day, Hussein -- Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:23:34 GMT, fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank Joseph Yurco) wrote: >To all who have posted on this subject: >. In brief, the American social construct is: if one in eight great grandparents was >African, then the individual is black. frank y, because your posts usually hold themselves to tight reasoning from acceptable evidence, the above statement, which i'd have passed over had it been written by some here, i'll challenge... to whom is this the "American social construct"??...are you speaking of some particular governmental classification??...if so your phrase outsteps its referent... but if the phrase is to be taken in the common usage of "social construct", what evidence is your view based upon??... frank mReturn to Top
Steve Whittet wrote: > > Using the height of the GP as the radius of a circle > we get a circle with a circumference equal to the perimeter > of the GP as close as we are able to measure it. > C = Pi*d gives > 1760/560 = Pi = 3.1428 as a value for Pi off by .001 > > Have you ever wondered why there are exactly twice as many seconds > in a century as inches in the circumference of the Earth > > 100 x 365.24 x 24 x 60 x 60/24902.72727 x 5280 x 12 x 2 = 1 > > or why these increments show up in the base measures of the Great > Pyramid. > You provided an amazing compilation of units and correlations but left out the fact that there are roughly pi x 10^7 seconds in a year to within 0.004, or less, in the distant past when the year was shorter. This is doubtful evidence that the duration of a second was designed to express such a relationship. Yours (and Tompkins') compilations make similar leaps. I'd feel more comfortable with some of the more obscure hypothesized connections if there was more contemporary evidence. Phi is only a little harder to believe than pi, but the preservation of all those units begs for more proof. Chuck Blatchley FAX: 235-4050 Pittsburg State University email: cblatchl@pittstate.edu Pittsburg, KS 66762Return to Top
In article <552dq9$ifn@halley.pi.net>, mcv@pi.netÁ says... > >pmanansala@csus.edu (Paul Kekai Manansala) wrote: > >>In article <54t6kq$sel@halley.pi.net>, >> mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal) wrote: >>>My arguments were based on the modern classification of the Afro-Asiatic >>>languages, which is basically in agreement with Greenberg. > >>Then, Egyptian is not any closer to Semitic than Cushitic, right? > >Subgrouping of language families is a notoriously difficult issue. Apparently. Hi Mike, I have been trying to follow the logic here. The only evidence for language is written. There is no written language which predates the Naquada. Even starting from that point there are at least a couple of dozen major waves of immigration in and out of Egypt spread over a period of at least 6,000 years. Some people entering Egypt certainly came through Nubia, or the modern Sudan and others came through Libya, modern Chad. There were also people who entered Egypt from the Mediterranean and the Red Sea and there were people who entered Egypt from Palestine. Many of these immigrants were in the process of passing through these places on their way from even more distant realms. There almost certainly were regular waves of people coming from Arabia across the Red Sea to Egypt. There likewise were people coming across the Mediterranean from Cyprus, Crete and the Aegean. There were Mesopotamians, Syrians, Lebanese and Ethiopians. Who knows where the Hyksos came from. There may have been people from even farther afield. Dilmunites, the people of Makkan, Meluhha and Punt, people from India and perhaps Bactria and Europe. Why wouldn't all of these people have brought some elements of their own languages with them? Look how rich American English has become from the borrowed words of its immigrants, why should Egyptian not shown some evidence of its heritage as well? >When Greenberg listed the 5 branches of Afro-Asiatic as co-ordinate, >he was essentially taking an agnostic position. Since then (1963), >it has become increasingly clear that the Cushitic group has to be >split into at least 3 "independent" groups (within Afro-Asiatic, of >course): Omotic (was: West Cushitic), Beja (was: North Cushitic) and >Cushitic Proper (Central Cushitic, Eastern and Southern Cushitic). >Fleming would now also detach Central Cushitic. Of these groups, only >Beja shows a special affinity with Ancient Egyptian on a scale >comparable with Semitic or Berber. The idea that the major influence on Egyptian language came from Kush, Semitic and Berber only or that they came early and stayed late, neglects the role of other influences just passing through. > >>>There is no direct evidence for the language of the A-group Nubians. >>>Based on the early geographical distribution of the Nilo-Saharan and >>>Afro-Asiatic peoples, my speculation would be Northern Cushitic (Beja). What troubles me about this "Afro Asiatic" label is the focus on "early" and "geographic distribution". Neither of these really need be considered a constraint. > >>So you do think A-group Nubians were related to the Beja. Therefore, a >>language family at least as close to Egyptian as Semitic (according to >>Greenberg's classification) would be found along the Nile at the >>time of Egyptian state formation. Did the Egyptian language stay static, fixed in the form it had at the time of Egypts state formation, for all the millenia of its existence, or did it develop dialects which were not reflected in its formalized hieroglyphic script? Why does the XVIIIth Dynasty suddenly require a huge influx of new glyphs? > >Yes, if this speculation is correct, actually two: Egyptian itself and >"Proto-Beja" (according to taste: North-Cushitic or South-Egyptian). >This is assuming A-group was different from C-group ethnically. I'm >told some archaeologists now think C-group is a continuation of A-group, >in which case the A-group Nubians would again seem to be Nilo-Saharans. >It's a difficult issue. Just looking at the map, Nilo-Saharan clearly >seems intrusive in Nubia, but that gives no indication at all of the >dates... Just looking at the map fails to take into account the mobility of people and the way that water allows people from one region to move through other peoples territory leaving no trace of their passage but only evidence of what appears to have been a geographically isolated connection at the end. > > >== >Miguel Carrasquer Vidal steveReturn to Top
alford@dial.pipex.com (Alan Alford) wrote: >Until someone comes up with a better explanation, I am sticking to the >theory published in my recent book "Gods of the New Millennium" that the >shafts were an integral part of a massive hydrogen gas power generator >(http://www.eridu.co.uk/minisites/giza.html). This is by no means a >crackpot idea but is based on a full and detailed analysis of physical >evidence inside the Pyramid My theory is, of course, based on a completely >different paradigm of human history, but this is hardly the time and place >to go into that one... Dear Sir, I will not discuss the different paradigm of human history so well exposed in your homepage. I would like to discuss the new paradigm of cooling exposed in your location http://www2.eridu.co.uk/eridu/synopsis/chapter9.html: ************************************************************************************* Was the burning of hydrogen gas the source of the Great Pyramid's energy? Alan Alford highlights several features of the King's Chamber which leave little doubt that this was the source of the hydrogen fire. The mysterious granite "coffer" and the blackened entrance to one "airshaft" are the obvious clues. Less obvious is the series of "construction chambers" above the King's Chamber. These chambers are formed by five granite beams, the largest stones in the entire structure, weighing up to 70 tons. The Egyptologists have never explained why so many of these huge granite beams were necessary, nor why the blocks possessed polished bottoms and rough tops. Alan Alford suggests that these chambers were deliberately designed to function as a chimney, which gradually dissipated the heat from the hydrogen fire. He points out that granite is an excellent heat conductor, and that, furthermore, the combination of a smooth bottom and rough top would enable each granite beam to give off more heat than it absorbed. *************************************************************************************** If you say that: "each granite beam" (is able) "to give off more heat than it absorbed" this means to me that the granite beam is actually hotter than the surface, i.e. the granite is a source of heat and not a cooler! In order to make you understand what means "heat dissipation" imagine to a have a water tub with an hole, you can pour water inside (at a known ratio) and measure the flow out of the hole. if you pour inside 100 l/sec of water from the hole you can measure a maximum water flow of 100 l/sec of water. If, by any chance, you measure more than 100 l/sec of water, say 110 l/sec, that means that you have TWO sources, yours - 100 l/sec - and an hendogenous one which counts for 10 l/sec. Please do inform me if you have understand, I will explain it again to you. Another experiment that I suggest to you require: - a "brick" of granite (is it possible- at least in europe - to find small piece fit for use a "floor stone" of a given section and size - a "brick" of metal (same thickness), I suggest copper but also aluminium works fine, section and size as above. - two pots with a diameter minor or equal to the size of the bricks of such a shape that they are completely covered by the "brick" Pour same water - same amount - in both pots, place them on the fire, cover them with the "bricks" of the two material (one is granite and the other a metal) put your hands (bare hands) on them. The hand which is hurted before the other is placed on the best conductive element. Have a nice time and then explain me why the builder of your "reactor" choose granite for cooling. > >In summary, my analysis predicts an empty chamber behind the doorway. The >symbolic theories predict Egyptian relics or Khufu's body. When the >doorway has been opened, we will have a better idea of whether the >functional or symbolic theory is correct. Then will be the best time to >debate these matters further. In the meanwhile I suggest the following thema: *** What are the main parts of a power generator plant? open Discussion*** >A. Alford Best regards, Claudio De DianaReturn to Top
All: Lately it has come to my attention that there are certain among us that do not appreciate our discussion of Egyptology, Religion, Mythology, or Linguistics on this newsgroup, feeling that these subject are not really related to sci.archaeology in thier subject matter. Could someone please clarify for me if these things are indeed unrelated to sci.archaeology? Is there an FAQ somewhere that we can refer to if there is a question as whether or not a particular topic is relevant to the group. Im putting this question out there for you long time participants as well as the newer ones. Any help that you could give to put this matter to rest would be most appreciated! Ankh udja seneb! XinaReturn to Top
All: Recently it has come to my attention that there are certain among us that do not appreciate our discussion of Egyptology, religion, mythology, or linguistics on this newsgroup, feeling that these subjects are not **really** related to sci.archaeology in thier subject matter. Could someone please clarify for me if these things are indeed unrelated to sci.archaeology? Is there an FAQ somewhere that we can refer to if there is a question as whether or not a particular topic is relevant to the group. Im putting this question out there for you long time participants as well as the newer ones. Any help that you could give to put this matter to rest would be most appreciated! Ankh udja seneb! XinaReturn to Top
EliyehowahReturn to Topwrote: >The Great Pyramid was built in 2170 BC. >It was NOT built in 25 years, but rather the 25-year claim BISHOP USHER!!!!!! Wow.I thought you were dead!!! Lets see now the earth was created in 1430bc at exactly 3:15pm.................. Red Wings Fan
I'm a french student, and I really need any informations concerning carbon 14 dating,to make a thesis. If it could be possible,I'm looking for any description of any experiments and any measurement using Carbon 14..... Please Answer...........Return to Top
In article <5538j8$6g6@chleuasme.francenet.fr>, dchermet@micronet.fr (Daniel Chermette) wrote: : I'm a french student, and I really need any informations concerning : carbon 14 dating,to make a thesis. : If it could be possible,I'm looking for any description of any : experiments and any measurement using Carbon 14..... : Please Answer........... Try the following URL: http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/c14/webinfo/indextext.html Have a good day, Hussein -- Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).Return to Top
Some time ago, during a linguistic discussion, I wrote of a strange glyph that looked to me like the top half of an old-fashioned radio. Some of my detractors no doubt snickered at this notion, but, since then, a couple of new developments have come to light that are on the verge of proving that the ancient Egyptians did, indeed, have radios! A friend of mine has just explained, somewhere else on the Internet, how the Egyptians were able to obtain electricity utilizing the remains of dead ibises (You always wondered why there were so many ibis mummies!) and now I am pleased to inform you that a papyrus has surfaced that appears to be an actual radio script! Newly deciphered, this text seems to be a dialogue between two characters named Abeet and Ka-sta-ur, the latter being, for some unknown reason, also called "Lou". Written in a unique format, the content of the papyrus is as follows: Ka-sta-ur (pointing to statue): Hey, Abeet, who's the big guy? Abeet: I'm glad you asked me that, Lou. That's Ahmose the First. Lou: Ahmose the First? If he was Ahmose the First, who was the real first? Abeet: HE was the first. Lou: You said he was Ahmose the First. Abeet: That's right. Ahmose the First. Lou: I heard you the first time, Abeet. You said Ahmose the First, so I'm asking--who was first? Abeet: Ahmose was. Lou: I thought he was Ahmose the First. Abeet: Now you're catching on. Lou: You think so? But who was on first? Abeet: On where? Lou: That chair! Abeet: What's it look like? Ahmose the First! Lou: Oooh, Abeet, that ain't nice. I know he was Ahmose the First, but now I'm asking you for the tenth time--who's on first? Abeet: On where? Lou: That chair! Abeet: For pete's sake, Lou. The guy in the chair is Ahmose the First! Lou: Okay, okay, don't get mad. Just tell me one thing--why was he Ahmose the First? Abeet: Why? That's a stupid question. Lou: You got the answer? Abeet: Well, sure I do! Because he wasn't the Second! Lou: I thought you said he WAS the Second! Abeet: No I didn't, Dummy. I said he was Ahmose the First. Lou: That's right. The Second. Abeet: You're asking for it, Lou. For the last time, he wasn't the Second. Lou: Came in third, huh? Abeet: Came in where? Lou: That chair! But who's on first? Abeet: I'm counting to three, Lou... Lou: Is that a clue, Abeet? Abeet: No, I think they call it Murder One. I'll give you a head start, Lou. One...two...three... TRICK OR TREAT! HAPPY HALLOWEEN!Return to Top
whittet@shore.net (Steve Whittet) wrote: >In article <552dq9$ifn@halley.pi.net>, mcv@pi.netÁ says... >> >>pmanansala@csus.edu (Paul Kekai Manansala) wrote: >> >>>In article <54t6kq$sel@halley.pi.net>, >>> mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal) wrote: >>>>My arguments were based on the modern classification of the Afro-Asiatic >>>>languages, which is basically in agreement with Greenberg. >> >>>Then, Egyptian is not any closer to Semitic than Cushitic, right? >> >>Subgrouping of language families is a notoriously difficult issue. >Hi Mike, >I have been trying to follow the logic here. The only evidence for >language is written. There is no written language which predates the >Naquada. >Even starting from that point there are at least a couple >of dozen major waves of immigration in and out of Egypt spread >over a period of at least 6,000 years. [...] >Why wouldn't all of these people have brought some elements of their >own languages with them? Look how rich American English has become >from the borrowed words of its immigrants, why should Egyptian not >shown some evidence of its heritage as well? But it does! >Did the Egyptian language stay static, fixed in the form it had >at the time of Egypts state formation, for all the millenia of its >existence, or did it develop dialects which were not reflected in >its formalized hieroglyphic script? Egyptian changes gradually through time, even the formalized writing system cannot conceal that fact. The Coptic dialects are another proof. The fascinating thing however, and if you would take the time to study some introductory textbooks on historical linguistics you'd find that out for yourself, Esteban, is that despite all these multi-cultural and multi-ethnic influences and borrowings, despite all the language change and phonetic decay and mangling of grammar, despite formalized and confusing writing systems, American English is still English, and not a confused and amorphous hodge-podge. It is quite easily ID-able as a Western Germanic language, desecended from Proto-Indo-European, spoken, but not written, thousands of years ago. The tell-tale signs are all over, and learning to identify them is not rocket-science, it's quite easy, once you know and recognize the basic principles. Try it. The same with Ancient Egyptian. Sure, the language's phonetics and grammar change, often radically, from Old Kingdom Egyptian to Coptic. Sure, the Egyptians borrowed Semitic words and Nubian words and Greek words, and whatnot, and it is a fascinating, and historically relevant, subject in itself to trace the different borrowings to their sources. But still, the core remains unmistakeably Egyptian, unmistakeably Afro-Asiatic, and that tells us something crucial about the history of the Egyptians as well. == Miguel Carrasquer Vidal ~ ~ Amsterdam _____________ ~ ~ mcv@pi.net |_____________||| ========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cigReturn to Top
In article <543vdo$qib@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, GROOVE YOUReturn to Topwrites: >Peter Van wrote: There are real genetic advantages to being light >skinned if you lived in Northern Europe, just as there are real genetic >advantages to being dark skinned if you live closer to the equator. > >What advantages? anyone can crawl into a cave to keep warm"... The advantages of Differing in Colour lie in Camouflage. Black persons, for example, would have been primarily Nocturnal in their original African environment. For years, the American Negro has been unjustly accused of indolence and torpor, when it is only his Daytime Self which the observer is seeing. Black people are passionately hard-working persons at night, however, as the Crime Statistics for Harlem vividly illustrate. White persons, on the other hand, obviously originate in Heavy Snowfields*, and do not belong anywhere below the Treeline; possibly Abominable Snowpersons are the world's only remaining Proto- Europeans, which would explain why Asiatics** devote so much time and energy to Scalping them. Red Indians and Ginger-Haired Individuals, meanwhile, evidently come from Mars, and should be treated with extreme caution, and possibly also heavy disinfectants. Yours Reverend Colonel Ignatius Churchward Von Berlitz M.A. (Dom. Sci.) Oxon. (Oklahoma) *Why are White Persons, then, not White All Over? There is an answer so simple a Madman could have thought of it. It would have been essential for Caucasoid Tribes to be able to recognize loved ones buried in the snow by Dangerous Avalanches and distinguish them from, say, the Tip of a Hungry Lurking Dugong by their brown, black or blonde coiffes protruding from the snow. There are few Totally Albino White Persons, a fact which would have reassured the Early Caucasians when faced with a lumbering object which, being neither Blonde nor Brunette, could be identified in good time as a Polar Bear. Polar Bears have, indeed, been observed in the wild to Roll in Henna to eliminate this disadvantage. **I have excluded Asiatics from this argument because they are so obviously Not Like Us Black And White Folks.
It seems that the more advanced our Modern Society grows, the more feeble becomes our knowledge of how to build a Sun-Focussing Inca Masonry Laser out of Coca Leaves and Llama-Spit. We would do well to heed the wisdom of the Ancient Greeks, who were aware that the Sun went round the Earth BEFORE BUZZ ALDRIN SET FOOT ON THE SUN AND PROVED IT. Indeed, there is speculation in Oklahoman circles that Neil Armstrong already knew the Moon was there before he visited it, since he possessed Ancient Maps drawn by Lucian of Samosata, since conveniently burnt in the Great Library of Alexandria. Images on Ancient Egyptian Books Of The Dead superficially appear to be Mesoamericans snorting Cocaine through rolled-up Chinese paper money, but may in fact be a race of Star Beings with Nose-Mounted Probes For Refuelling In Flight, or possibly for Clasping the Female During Mating. There is every likelihood that Melons and Elephants were involved. Furthermore, the Egyptians KNEW THAT VENUS WAS A RINGED PLANET, even if Modern Astronomers do not. Venus is distinctly saucer-shaped. I have seen it, many times, on the horizon, going BLEEP and Manoeuvring About For A Powered Landing. Then, many small Venusians egress the planet, proclaim this to be a Giant Fetid Ooze for Venusiunkind, and express a desire to Abduct Some Terrestrial Poontang. My dear friend Professor Michael Heridoth has been Abducted many times, and still wakes up in the middle of the night screaming about Huge Cigar-Shaped Objects. However, THE VENUSIANS ARE OUR FRIENDS. Does one have Sex with one's enemies, unless one is a Preying Mantis or a member of the KGB? Professor Heridoth assures me that the Venusians are neither Preying Mantises nor members of the KGB, but instead Huge Luminous Nudibranchs. Like Terrestrial Nudibranchs, they wear Sandals and carry their Change in small leather pouches. Their Mission on Earth is merely to warn us of the Terrible Peril in which we place ourselves by Meddling With The Atom. However, I have informed the Venusian Prime Minister, during a particularly stimulating Abduction session, that Atoms are very Small, and there is very little likelihood using current Terrestrial Technology of Meddling with the Specific Atom of which he speaks. I suggested removal of this Atom to Venus, where it could be retained for safekeeping until Earthmen had Come Of Age and begun Masturbating Furiously. In the interim period, of course, we could rely on safe Wind- and Dolphin-Driven* Power Sources, and carry our Change in small leather pouches, and wear Sandals. Yours Reverend Colonel Ignatius Churchward Von Berlitz M.A. (Dom. Sci.) Oxon. (Oklahoma) *Many people have spoken to me of the Friendly, Helpful, Intelligent character of these small Odontocetes. It seems to me that such Intelligence could be put to work for Mutual Benefit, possibly by having many thousands of Dolphins swimming in an enormous Turbine with Sharpened Blades as an incentive to keep Swimming Faster. We would gain enormous benefit from the arrangement, and the Dolphins would gain a Juicy Fish at the end of the day. Possibly thousands of them could be shipped across the Atlantic in small, claustrophobic boats, with their Flippers chained together.Return to Top
Q: How do they plan to actually open the door at the end of the shaft? I recently saw the footage of the robots accent to the door and began to wonder how they plan to get the robot around the door. The stone block could be rather large. Also if this really is a door that could be sealing up another chamber or tunnel, then has this chamber or tunnel show up on any seismic or ultrasonic surveys ?Return to Top
rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote: >Hello to all the posters on this thread who are not posting through >sci.archaeology... >Unless your post has archaeological relevance, please do not copy it to >sci.archaeology. You are flooding this group with a debate that is less >and less a debate than a series of harangues and diatribes, with little >attention to archaeological and anthropological contributions to the >concept of race in general and egypt in particular. I have seen very >little in most of these posts that archaeology is in a position to >comment upon. Actually, much of this discussion has been *directly related* to archaeological and anthopological evidence, being an interpretation of textual, linguistic, and artifact evidence, Ms. Johnson. Sorry, if YOU haven't seen it, but it's been there, from myself, Manasala, Sagrillo, Yurco, and others. I see no attempt to discuss *off-topics* here. As for the tone, you must realize that this is something of an emotional topic even among professionals, and one that cannot be ignored, IMHO, by either side. We only learn when the issue is discussed openly, and since we are all human, then the interplay of humans often lead to "high emotions". As for the "cross-posting" you comment upon, this issue began long before I saw you get involved. It remains an Egyptological issue that interests *some people* who regular post to sci.arch, and possibly no other NG. Egyptology IS a valid area of interest on sci.arch and has been for as long as *I* have read the NG. >If you wish to inject new life into this thread, consider the following: >in current anthropological thought, 'race' is a concept with little >objective support (there is as much physical variation within 'races' as >between). Ergo, 'race' is an eminently political concept. Notice that >political does not equal politically-correct -- p.c. is an epithet >employed by people who wish to dismiss other opinions out of hand rather >than to discuss them. 'Race' has long been a political tool of >governments in many nations. The very fact that 'race' is culturally and >politically defined means that what the Egyptians 'were' or 'were not' is >as indeterminate as it is irrelevant. I suspect you would find a >discussion of the politics (in a very broad sense) and cultural >importance of knowing 'what' the Egyptians 'were' a far more profitable >line of inquiry. While *I* may personally agree with your assessment about the terms of *race* in this discussion, you must realize this IS an issue that will not go away because either YOU or I say anything about it. As you may have noted in a previous private post to you, I agreed with your assessment, but also said that each side feels it MUST make its case. The last *I* checked the FAQ for sci.arch, this was still an allowable area of discussion, and one that periodically comes up. Nothing says that YOU have to read it, however. Regards -- Katherine Griffis (Greenberg) Member of the American Research Center in Egypt University of Alabama at Birmingham Special Studies http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/ccer/PEOPLE2.HTMLReturn to Top
1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy) wrote: >In article <3274E9E4.2749@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>, SaidaReturn to Topwrote: >[cut] >: Butros-Ghali is a Copt, which makes him a descendant of the ancient >: Egyptians. Would I classify him as white? Well, he's not black. He >: should be whatever he wants to be. My guess is he would say "I am an >: Egyptian." >[cut] > >Saida, > >Not trying to start another war, but I hope you were not implying that >only the Copts are descendents of ancient Egyptians. > >My belief is that present day Egyptians regardless of religion are >descendants of the ancient ones. True. All Egyptians are decendents of the ancients. Maybe he means that the Copts are culturally more similar??? The Hab
Hussein Essawy wrote: > > In article <3274E9E4.2749@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>, SaidaReturn to Topwrote: > [cut] > : Butros-Ghali is a Copt, which makes him a descendant of the ancient > : Egyptians. Would I classify him as white? Well, he's not black. He > : should be whatever he wants to be. My guess is he would say "I am an > : Egyptian." > [cut] > > Saida, > > Not trying to start another war, but I hope you were not implying that > only the Copts are descendents of ancient Egyptians. > > My belief is that present day Egyptians regardless of religion are > descendants of the ancient ones. > > Have a good day, > Hussein Hi, ya Hussein--I didn't mean to slight anyone--just referring to Butros-Ghali, specifically. You are right; there will be many non-Coptic Egyptians with the same distant ancestors. > > -- > Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the > mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).
In a recent posting to this group, a question was asked regarding the antiquity of the Anatolian script used to write the "Luwian" language. The question was deflected with a reference to the Phaistos Disk. I am aware that the Karatepe inscription and others from the "Neo-Hittite" sphere (e.g. Carchemish, Zincirli) can be securely dated to the First Millenium. I believe the language of these inscriptions is generally called "Luwian". I have seen a long inscription in this script (or at least a very similar script) at Bogazkoy (Hattusa) and have been told it dates to Suppiluliuma II (early 12th Cen.) What is the earliest example of an inscription in this script? What is the language of the Hattusa inscription? ________ Also a note on "Hittite" words that may have made it into English. It has been suggested that the word "Asia" may have originated from an Anatolian place name (ASSUWA in Hittite records) possibly referring to the area later referred to as Lydia. This would have come into English via "Mycenaean Greek". BeeverReturn to Top
Hi, I'm looking for the most recent (and accepted) timeline and lexicon of ancient history's events, peoples and places. I want something that's up to date and relflects the latest in archeological findings. Online reference is ok as an extra but I mainly need a serious size book. Thanks a meg for your help,Return to Top
Jeeezz...this must be the "info superhighway" version of being shot by some nut who thinks you cut them off.... On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Xina wrote: > > Hello to all the posters on this thread who are not posting through > > sci.archaeology... > > > > Unless your post has archaeological relevance, please do not copy it to sci.archaeology. You are flooding this group with a debate that is less and less a debate than a series of harangues and diatribes, with little > > attention to archaeological and anthropological contributions to the > > concept of race in general and egypt in particular. > > Rebecca: > > Its wonderful that you have taken it upon yourself to decide precisely > what is relevent to the newsgroup sci.archaeology, shall we, along with > your up and coming scholastic laurels in anthropology assign you the > title of newsgroup police officer? Xina, note two things: it was a request, and it was not an unusual or unreasonable one. There is no need to get personal about it -- all you had to do was ignore it. > Its all very nice to criticize the threads that you yourself have not > been participating in. So at what point is a lurker entitled to enter into a discussion? Just because I hadn't anything to say as it was going on, doesn't mean that when the thread starts to die I have no right to observe as much. Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to assert your right to say whatever you damn well please, whenever and wherever you damn well please, and at the same time to say that I have no right to disagree? If you yourself admit that the thread was going to die, why are you so upset at my asking it to go die elsewhere? You're being far more aggressive in trying to stamp me out than I ever dreamed of being in asking the thread to go elsewhere. Finally, Xina, you could have made all of your points without being mean. Go back and read my original post -- how many personal aspersions do you see there? Chill out, Xina. I made a request and a suggestion. All you needed to do was ignore them. Cheers, Rebecca Lynn Johnson Ph.D. stud., Dept. of Anthropology, U IowaReturn to Top
Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle, Xina. One measly private post asking you to be careful about posting to multiple newsgroups, and you act like I am trying to censor you personally. Relax. I sent similar messages to all the people I percieved as principals in the thread. Just because I do not post to a thread does not mean I don't follow it. As of this weekend, that thread seemed to have become *archaeologically* sterile. It is not an unusual occurrence for people from one newsgroup to ask people from other ng's to edit their headers in such situations. Chill out. It was just a request. Do you go off like this every time someone asks you to do something you don't want to do? God, Xina. That's what delete buttons are for. Cheers, Rebecca Lynn Johnson Ph.D. stud., Dept. of Anthropology, U IowaReturn to Top
CHAPTER XVI LOVE AND HATE The world of studentship has never followed with seriousness or constancy the mighty implications of the ascription of masculine gender to spirit and of feminine to matter. With the expectation of finding that an examination of the relationship between male and female will yield an enlightening theoria of universal creation, the challenge to inquiry now is to face the data frontally and not only with an open mind, but with an eye keenly fixed to see what is there. Even then it is necessary to use the clues and threads of discernment that have been provided us by ancient insight. It is found, then, that there will be no mistake in undeviatingly reading spirit or spiritual reference for the male symbol or personation, and matter or the physical for the female emblemism. The fact that this usage will prove its unfailing pertinence and dependability, in all cases with astonishing precision, will come as itself a revelation of no minor moment to those not conversant with the almost mathematical faithfulness and reliability of these forms of ancient symbolic method. The place to begin the examination is at the point of the breaking apart of the unity into the duality. As to this, it must constantly be borne in mind that in spite of an act of bifurcation of itself, Deity does not destroy its eternal oneness. It has not become two, even though it has cleft its being into two aspects. It has not become itself and something else not itself. This is logically impossible. It has converted itself into a duality. It has not become two, in any sense exterior to itself. It has evolved a twoness within itself. God can not, dialectically, project anything outside himself, since he is all there is. All things are and remain inside the being of the Su- 230 preme. God can no more become two than man is two, from the mere fact of his having, or rather being, both a spirit and a body. God--and man like him--is a unit, although he is composed of dual energies. The conflict and tension between positive and negative polarities is ever necessary to bring the life of God forth to view in concrete worlds. So life has to set up this stress and pressure within itself. How could Being lay hold of and so move substance to form its creation if it could not oppose one arm of itself, so to say, against another arm, so as to be able to get a grip on the material to be moved into place for the creation? Figuratively speaking, how could it create if it could not oppose thumb to fingers, left hand to right, lever against fulcrum, conscious design or will against objects, mind against matter? Tensional opposition of the two pulls of a polarized duality is as inevitable as the fact that a coin must have two sides. There could be no existence, no things, if there was no front and back, up and down, in and out, to and fro, movement and inertia. Duality, presaging the subsistence of a strain between the two portions, is an inexorable postulate of conscious being, and sprang into appearance as soon as life emerged from the unseen into the visible stage and took organic form. The interaction begins the moment the two sides are established as distinct units in the being of the whole. It takes the form of the only thinkable action that two things can exert toward or upon each other,--a mutual tugging and pulling. They are set in relation to each other in much the same way as are two balls of lead tied to opposite ends of a string and whirled around on a central pivot, with the significant difference, however, that the "string" is not a "dead" connection, but a living stream of dynamic forces that are determined by the powers exerted, positively from the one end and negatively from the other. The pushing and pulling become the great natural laws of attraction and repulsion. They are the first and cosmic form of the meaning of the Battle of Armageddon. As the twoness in tensile opposition is the necessary condition of the stability of anything, the law is that two opposite poles attract 231 each other and two similar poles repel each other. This must be so, if anything is to cohere and remain itself. If the two opposite poles repelled each other, the atom and the universe would collapse. Rather it could not have come into existence in the first instance. Positive and negative poles must fly into each other's arms, embrace and multiply, if there are to be worlds. We have here the ground of one of the most relevant of ancient philosophical pronouncements. Empedocles' declaration that the world was engendered and activated throughout by the two forces of Love and Hate. Love is seen as the attraction and Hate the repulsion. And by this naming and characterization it is possible for the limited intellect of man to understand dialectically why the prime essential nature of God is denominated Love. As he is unit being of all being, the constant motive of all his expression is the universal attraction of the two portions of his own Self for each other. The two nodes of his wholeness can do nothing else but "love" each other. At the same time the two similar poles in the countless units of his multiplied manifestation can and must likewise "hate" each other. Love is the law of God's being--when he has thrown himself into the dual expression--since the two elements then are constrained by the unabating attraction toward each other. So then Love becomes the fulfilling of the law, for no other activity of life transcends or nullifies this first law of mutual attraction within the framework of the universe. It is operative in every unit of life, in every fragment, in every organic system from the atom to the super-galaxies. God can not help loving--and hating--once he has sundered his totality into spirit and matter. Then spirit must "love" matter, and matter spirit! Soul must love body and body soul! Man, intellectual and spiritual, must love the world of matter. The voice and hands of pious unintelligent religionism may fly up in horror at the philosophical determinations that spring immediately into view in the wake of the obvious dialectic. And well they may, for, properly understood and held in a 232 balanced rationale, the true envisagement of the elements of the problem enforces a view of these things that does indeed undo and reverse the poor twisted attitudes of orthodox befuddlement. The first dawn of welcome sanity to break upon the dark night of centuries of pitiable error is this cock's crow of the resurrected voice of philosophy proclaiming once again that spirit does love matter. A happy release of the human spirit from unnatural constraint under false mental postures will ensue for common consciousness when it can be freely postulated in thought that the soul does love the body, and that man, spiritual, does love the world with sufficient strength that he comes into body to enjoy its delights and meet its tensions. The strength of the blind pall that has afflicted the clearness of philosophical vision can be seen by merely reflecting upon the fact that for centuries the collective brains of the scholarly world have studied the Biblical assertion that "God so loved the world" without once discerning the relevance of the central statement there advanced. And God not only loved the world, but he loved also the flesh with a force that impelled him to throw the whole of his might, in recurrent cycles of countless years each, into the effort to expand his own being by plunging his consciousness into bodies of flesh and matter. For the physical universe is the Logos made flesh. No exterior force compelled him to become fleshed; so his act must have sprung from his own volition or desire for such an experience. These conclusions are the ineluctable products of the reasoning process working upon the premises given. As man and woman love each other, so spirit and matter love each other. In nature this "love" complies with every characterization of Plato's grand predication of balance, moderation and harmony amid all the divine elements in play. In man, where free will coupled with initial ignorance comes in to disturb the balances, disturbance and confusion have crept in. These will be corrected as intelligence awakens. Plato in The Phaedo and The Symposium has dissertated upon this matter of the genesis and nature of love, in a dramatization that has misled shallower thought into a mistaken interpretation 233 of his figure. To depict the cleaving asunder of God's unit being into the duality, he says that the soul of man splits apart into two, each part carrying one half of the potentiality of complete being. One part manifests in male body, the other in female, and the two separate halves, each suffering the want of completeness in itself, longingly seek their complementary halves in the world, to unite with them and thus be made whole. Obviously expounding but at the same time hiding the true esoteric meaning of his allegory, Plato clearly concealed his deeper sense under the individual and personal representation. It is surely not in the purview of Plato's philosophy to deny unitary completeness to the human ego, whether in man or woman. It is always in his system a full unit, being itself a fragment of the divine Oversoul. It can not be fractional, a mere half-unit. It is complete and perfect as a seed unit of divinity. Plato is dramatizing under the human allegory the truth that the collective being of life splits apart into the two poles and that their force of attraction for each other ceaselessly causes each to seek the other throughout the ranges of life. The individual soulmate idea drawn from Plato's allegory is a flat misconception. If it was his real belief that the soul in a male body is only one half a former complete soul, with the other half living somewhere in a female body, what a tragedy life would present in the nearly complete failure of the two halves to discover each other! Nature would not be party to a scheme which in her operative order registered close to ninety-nine percent failure. Plato's imagery is, as is the sportive punster play on the meaning of words in The Cratylus, neither amusing diversion nor literal seriousness, but high-pitched allegorical and dramatic truth, playful on the surface, but grandly meaningful in the cryptic intent. Plato almost indubitably drew this form of portrayal from a line in the Egyptian scripts which says that "the soul makes the journey through Amenta in the two halves of sex." Many reports are to the effect that he visited and studied in Egypt. It is conceded in general that Greece derived the substance and genius of her great philoso- 234 phies from Egypt. The possibility of reading anything measurably close to the true meaning of this passage has been killed in the first place by the utter failure of Western scholarship to locate the Egyptian Amenta in the proper world. The meaning has been thrust clear out of its true world and over into another realm where it can have no pertinence, through the stupid translation of Amenta as the region of spiritual consciousness after death. It must be asserted as a discovery of an age-old error and a datum of the most momentous significance in all antique research, that Amenta is the life on earth, or earth itself, and not any heavenly abode. Amenta is the home of the living mortal, not the realm of the shades of the dead. And this is said in the face of the datum of comparative religion that it was expressly denominated the land of the dead. The seeming contradiction is resolved into agreement when it is known, what all studious zeal has never yet uncovered, that the ancient philosophers and "theologians" by a trope of occult significance designated the souls living on earth as "the dead." To them the life in mortal body brought "death" to the soul. "Who knows," cries Socrates to Cebes in the Gorgias, "whether to live is not to die, and to die is not to live? For I have heard from one of the wise that we are now dead and that the body is our sepulcher." And Paul says that "the command that meant life proved death" to him. In the wake of Egyptian formulations of truth Greek philosophy very distinctly regarded the soul while on earth in fleshly body as suffering a death, from which, to be sure, it would be reborn in its periodic resurrection "from the dead." The Egyptian statement, therefore, concisely affirms that the soul makes its pilgrimage through the cycle of bodily existences "in the two halves of sex." Yet all the ancient philosophy stands on the positive assertion that the soul is one and indivisible. It is that in a human which makes him the individ-ual. Therefore the division must refer to the incorporation of unitary souls in male and female bodies. Half the souls are in male, half in female embodiment. As the Greeks say, "souls are divided about bodies." That is, souls are 235 distributed out amongst bodies. For again they say that it is the function of gods to "distribute divinity." Jesus, in taking a loaf and dividing it, distributed the fragments in the Eucharist, and thereby dramatized the same idea. Sex appertains to the vehicle of outward embodiment, not to the soul itself. There are not male and female souls. The soul is in large part still detached from complete immersion in the flesh of the body. It projects only a tentacle of itself down into body. It is the opposite qualities of positive and negative in the mind, the emotions and the physical senses of the corporeal appurtenance that are drawn by the law of polarity toward each other across the boundaries of sex. Only in this world and only then in the realm of bodily affections and proclivities is sex manifest. In the heaven of higher consciousness where soul resides in its native habitat there is neither marriage nor giving in marriage, for the soul is without sex. It is androgyne, the type of the original male-female unity in embryo, not yet male and female. Those marvelously preserved repositories of hoary truth also tell us that at the inception of the human race, in the initial stages of the soul's incorporation in bodies that grew ever less tenuous and finally fully fleshed, the race itself was hermaphroditic in its generative mechanism, and that only after thousands of years did it effect the full segregation of sex in two bodies of opposite polarization. A few verses in Genesis are a shorthand brief of this long process. The sane purport of Plato's subtle indirection is that the soul of humanity collectively, the World-soul of Plotinus and the Oversoul of Emerson, goes through its Amenta of experience in this world about equally split between male and female bodies, and that each half longs for union with the other under the law of attraction of opposite natures. But there is another yearning of the soul which is not specifically activated by the law of sex. It transcends sex. It is just the longing of one unit of soul consciousness for another unit. Sex does not affect it, engender it or minister to it. It is that higher 236 divine attraction which urges the lonely unit to seek union with the whole group. It is the longing of the part to be united with the integrity of the whole. The part, the fragment, is driven by the divine impulsion to seek reunion, after each separation, with the whole. It is cut off from this communion while in the flesh by the walls of the body. It can communicate with kindred souls only across a gulf. If, however, soul in male setting can find this congenial response from soul in female body, both Platonic and romantic love can have play. That union is doubly blessed. With common humanity it is the physical attraction of opposite sexuality centering in body that is the main bond of attachment. Generally this is quite quickly reduced in force, so that there is then the possibility that the higher Platonic mental and spiritual affinities can come more fully into expression. Sex attraction still constitutes the strong dynamic in romantic love. It is difficult to depict the overwhelming power of this romantic attraction in the psychic realm of mortals. It manifests as a positive hunger on the part of one for the other. It is a veritable chemicalization within the blood, and surges through the nervous system and suffuses the brain. It is a ferment and unrest, an urge that impels toward embracing, or merging oneself with, the opposite pole. One can know its carking and corroding virulence only if one has experienced it--as who has not? Vicariously we can see its potencies reflected in the behavior of animals in seasons of mating. Total repression, thwarting and denial of fulfillment almost disrupts the vital economy of the organism. Animals show suffering and abnormalities in health. Humans sometimes pine away. To such a wreckage of her powerful drive for happy expression nature attaches almost fatal penalties. If, through unsound and unbalanced religious ideologies or fervors, the soul too stoutly restricts the body's order of animal normality (for the body is an animal, as Plato says), it has its own resources and its own ways of striking back at the unwise master. Its own suffering or derangement entailed by the 237 too rigid denial of its due expression reacts to the detriment of the soul, whose servant it is. There is a fell quality to the mating urge that gives it the force of a natural and unimpeachable authority, which appears for a time to sweep away every obstacle and override the obstructing power of every consideration, whether of advantage or injury. It carries a virtual cosmic sanction with it. Romeo and Juliet, Abelard and Heloise, Dante and Beatrice, Hero and Leander, if not just honest John and plain Jane, feel that the world must stand aside and make way for the course of this true love. Flesh almost trembles and is consumed under the pulse and throb of the insatiable longing. It is nature's, life's, God's imperial order to the two individuals to unite their opposite forces and thus achieve its burning desire for multiplication of being and expansion of consciousness. It is its immitigable mandate thrilling out through every tide of blood and nerve impulse, that it may have more abundant life in the whole of its body. As Schopenhauer so elaborately and forcefully depicted, it is the will and idea of the world enacting its program. To insure beyond all possibility of failure that its evolutionary development should have an unbroken continuance, it impregnated its creatures with an enormous profusion and overplus of virile tendency. So dynamic is the voltage of this charge that it wholly disqualifies the rational element in most cases and drives blindly toward its goal, unhindered by any rational deterrent. It hypnotizes or paralyzes the reason, so that no consideration from that side may block it. It puts to sleep every sentinel that might be standing guard to challenge its right to advance. And it haloes its objective and emblazons its pathway to it with the most radiant aura of exaltation, and the most exquisite redolence of delight that life provides out of its armory of enchantments. Life has laid upon all its creatures this royal charge, which none may dodge with impunity. This is the law of sex in its physical area. But, because philosophy has been decried and contemned, man has been too oblivious of that other manifestation of sex within the 238 boundaries of his own personality between two other lovers, namely his soul and its body. This is beautifully portrayed, in addition to the many fine Biblical allegories of it, by the great Greek myth of Eros and Psyche. Eros is the higher spiritual soul, or Love, who descended to earth to unite with the mortal body and its animal-human soul. He hovers over her as she lies asleep, as yet unawakened to conscious recognition and deployment of her powers. Nothing can awaken her except the impact of those higher vibrations of a supernal consciousness from above, which are superinduced by her experiences in the flesh. So Eros bends down and arouses the sleeping faculties with his kiss. "Virtue" such as passed from Jesus into the woman who touched the hem of his garment flows down from the Oversoul when the connection with the latter is established and slumbering potencies spring into conscious activity from the touch. The prime office of religion and the entire rationale of culture is intimated in this allegory. For the central radix of both religion and culture is this power of the higher Ego in each person to awaken and transform the dormant faculties and capabilities of the lower human self. The sons of God were instructed to descend to earth, take wives from the daughters of men and raise up seed from them. It is all an allegorical representation of the union of these divine sparks, our souls, with the animal bodies, which, since they are to be the wombs of birth for the divinely fathered and humanly mothered Christ-child in every human breast, are typified as "women," the daughters, not of God, but "of men." The parenthood of the new-born sons of God is divine on the paternal side, but natural, earthy, on the side of mother-body. Heaven, as Plato hints, furnishes the seed of spiritual being for the composition of man, while earth furnishes the body, the soil or womb in which the divine seed is to be nurtured to its growth. In the Orphic hymns the souls says: "I am a child of earth and the starry skies, but my race is of heaven alone." So the two component halves of man's life are male and female 239 and the evolution of man is just the long romance, the wooing, winning and wedding of the two. The allegory, however, must not be permitted to strangle the reality which it adumbrates. For more and more clearly it can be seen that this is what has happened time after time in history and is the fatal feebleness of the human mind that has ever in the end defeated the spirit of culture. Allegory has been misconceived and flouted again and again and is still derided and decried in the seats of the intelligentsia of the modern world. The truth is that, while it is the ultimate bed-rock method and road to the keenest apperceptions, there exists but rarely in the individual and never in the mass the downright perspicacity requisite to apprehend its true illumination. As was the case in the Italian Renaissance, the general faculty to discern not only the beauty but the enlightening power of meaning released to the mind by symbols, was wanting and allegory failed once more. Yet it was not allegory that failed; it was popular crudity and crassness of mind that caused failure, as it always will. The world sadly needs to recover the lost faculty or genius for the interpretation of allegory and for the discovery of the wealth of meaning brought out by analogy. For the magnificent truth hidden in the ancient scriptures under glyph and symbol will not yield its purport to the world as long as the general mind remains dumb to the intimations of allegory and symbol. Clear down to the present the scholars have sniffed at allegory. This gesture is due to their inability to honor it and live with it in sufficient warmth of companionship to catch its more subtle and recondite power of instruction. The chief requirement is that the eye of the mind should be trained to hold the allegory not as opaque but as diaphanous. The condemnation and death of allegory have come through the mind's incapacity to look through it as a lens and to descry the objects in focus in that unseen world where truth abides in its noumenal aspect. What must be seen, then, under the allegory of the two natures in man wooing and wedding each other is something that demands in the seeing a pro- 240 found and subtly discerned set of values and meanings that lie altogether in a plane of cognition far above sense. The idea of marriage in the reference is but the initial push, the springboard that sends the thought off on its quest of realities that can be limned only in the highest poise and concentration of the thinking faculty. Two things, two forces, meet, intercommune and finally wed. But how is one to think of the soul wedding the psyche and creating a new birth through her? How, must first be asked, can mental and spiritual entities or radiations meet and wed? Here is the reality to which the allegory leads the mind, and mind must be able to follow from signpost to destination if tropes and symbols are not to leave failure in their wake perpetually. The highest exercise of the great faculty of imagination must come into play if the figure is to yield enlightenment. One must imagine, the, while keeping always in view the assumptions and principles of known natural and scientific data, that two powers like the soul and the psyche will wed each other by coming to an identity of vibratory energies, by striking a synchronization of conscious states which virtually make the two forces one instead of two. They become alike and flow together into a unity. Their currents of influence are finally reduced to a mathematical harmony in the wavelengths. This is the most plausible explanation open to brain thinking on the part of man, and while doubtless still below the plane of positive empirical knowledge as to how the subtle forces of mind operate, it soars well above the stolid immovableness of mass ideation that can think of no marriage save a personal and physical one. And just this difference measures the enormous gulf that perpetually runs its fatal chasm between the truly cultured minority and the cruder mass majority. That gulf is the most impassable obstacle to the progress of the race. Spirit and matter, soul and body, each reducible in thought to ultimate whirls of atomic energy, are thrown by Deity into the relation of juxtaposition and vibrational impact in quite literal sense. The close relation presupposes, in its degree and kind, as actual an 241 intercourse between the two elements as that between man and wife, if a new birth is to be engendered. Love, now conceived as between soul vibration and sense vibration, then presides at the very genesis and growth of all culture. For culture is, in essence, the increasing receptivity of the animal to the behests and influences of the higher Ego and its becoming enamored of them. Not only does sex force play between bodies of opposite polarity, but it flashes back and forth between spirit or mind, masculine, on the one side, and the feminine psyche within the same body, be it man's or woman's. The marriage spoken of allegorically in the New Testament and other scriptures is the union St. Paul glorifies as between soul and its own mortal body. Dr. Hinkle is found confirming this delineation in a very direct and indeed remarkable way. Speaking of the presence of feminine characteristics in the sensitive nature of artists, she declares (The Recreating of the Individual, p. 346): "The union between these masculine and feminine entities in the psychic organization of the artist partakes of the character of the sexual act, although it is an unconscious process of the nature of which the artist is unaware. But it possesses all the physical signs of the activity of libido sexualis, and of the nature of his feelings he is quite aware." It is significant that the psychoanalyst here avers that the manifestations of sexual character are sufficiently in evidence to warrant their description as sex symptoms. But this author goes even further and denominates the interplay of forces polarized as masculine and feminine as actually a "psychic coitus." She writes (p. 346): "I have referred in previous chapters to the separation of the sexual impulse from its reproductive purpose in the human race, with the consequent overthrow of nature's limitations and its use freely in the service of pleasure instead of purpose. As a consequence of this use, in which reproduction really plays no part for the male, there has been produced a transference of libido sexualis from the physical to the psychical realm. Here the artist reveals its transformation into a subjective phenomenon where a psychic coitus occurs, having for its constant aim not pleasure but purpose." 242 If the psychiatrist can speak of an intercourse between male and female components within the psychic range, at last the esoteric meaning and the amazing truth of an ancient allegory interspersed throughout all the revered scriptures receives the authentic voucher of its veracity. Only after some twenty-five hundred years are we beginning to catch up with what our wise forefathers knew. A further corroboration of the validity of the marriage symbol on the plane of psychic energy is given by Dr. Hinkle. She applies to the higher Ego, the superconscious or evolving deity in man, the term used in Platonic literature--the puer aeternus (the "eternal boy," or everlasting youth, he who is ever young). She says (p. 349): "In every case, however, the production of an art work is preceded by what can be called a psychic coitus between the puer aeternus and the soul within himself, and when, through some psychic interference or weakness, this idea does not take place, no art child will be produced." She goes so far as to label this orgiastic paroxysm in the sensibilities "a symbolic incest relation" and "an autoerotic process," the capacity for which sets the artistic or creative genius apart from more stodgy mankind. Thus the allegory of primitive truth is again tardily vindicated. Even an artist must be capable of imitating the actions of the gods in their fabled intercourse with one another and must be able to consummate a marriage culminating in intercourse between two polarized entities within his own scope of being, if he is to bring forth a child of his art. Simply this on a magnified scale, and carried on through all the later stages of the individual's evolution, is all that was connoted in and by St. Paul's allegory of the wedding between the lower psyche, the bride, and the higher self, the Christ, the Lamb of God slain on the altar of matter from the beginning of the world-aeon. Naturally the man who had not effected this marriage within himself, and therefore had no wedding garment on, was thrown out of the symbolic ceremonial. That wedding garment is verily the immortal shining body of "white raiment," 243 being nothing less than the augoeides, or body of radiant solar effulgence that clothes "the glorified and the elect,"--the garment of the redeemed. What occurs in miniature in the daily life of all creative genius is but the transpiring in small cycle of the great aeonial marriage and climactic blissfulness of soul and sense in the large cycle of human evolution. 244Return to Top
> In <54q5s3$mac@news.smart.net> mobius@smart.net (Stephen Hendricks) writes: > [and someone else replied too, but I missed it, saying:] > > >>I don't know about that, but I can buy the olive-skin or yellow-ish > >>cast. I have never seen the bust of Nefertiti in person, only color > >>photos, which are not necessarily reliable. Yet I wonder why you would > >>say that a person with an olive skin cannot be considered "white"? > Here's a good test! take those "olive skinned" Egyptians, especially from ages ago, and toss them into a Klan rally and see if they exit with membership cards.Return to Top
There is an archaelogical dig in Hearne of an old P.O.W camp from WWII. Pretty interesting, so far a fountain made out of concrete has been unearthed and various coins of the time. E-mail bdwz@tamu.edu for details.Return to Top
XinaReturn to Topwrote: >All: >Lately it has come to my attention that there are certain among us that >do not appreciate our discussion of Egyptology, Religion, Mythology, or >Linguistics on this newsgroup, feeling that these subject are not really >related to sci.archaeology in thier subject matter. Could someone >please clarify for me if these things are indeed unrelated to >sci.archaeology? Is there an FAQ somewhere that we can refer to if >there is a question as whether or not a particular topic is relevant to >the group. There is no FAQ. Everyone is too busy fighting to develop one. And it takes someone who is willing to simply take over the FAQ creation business and build it out of the posts that appear over time for a FAQ to appear. There ought to be a charter somewhere. sci.archaeology is a relatively young group. The last time this came up someone managed to quote from it and Egyptology was specifically INCLUDED as a topic. The real problem is the lack of an ancient history newsgroup where all of these subjects would be on topic. I'm not sure what happened to the newsgroup that was being discussed earlier this year, but I never saw a Call For Votes on it. >Im putting this question out there for you long time participants as >well as the newer ones. Any help that you could give to put this matter >to rest would be most appreciated! Because this is an unmoderated group there will always be a certain amount of disagreement about what is and what is not on topic. Although the linguistic threads bore me to tears, I haven't objected to them, and actually have followed them to some extent in the hope that when it is my turn to talk about a topic that bore others, that they will do likewise. Stella Nemeth s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com
Andrew.Elms@datacraft.com.au (Elmo) wrote: >Q: How do they plan to actually open the door at the end of the shaft? There is a new and improved robot from what I've read. >I recently saw the footage of the robots accent to the door and began >to wonder how they plan to get the robot around the door. The stone >block could be rather large. >Also if this really is a door that could be sealing up another chamber >or tunnel, then has this chamber or tunnel show up on any seismic or >ultrasonic surveys ? The door, and its tunnel are both very small. I doubt if anything big enough to be called a chamber could be behind it. Stella Nemeth s.nemeth@ix.netcom.comReturn to Top
rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote: >Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle, Xina. One measly private post asking you >to be careful about posting to multiple newsgroups, and you act like I am >trying to censor you personally. Relax. I sent similar messages to all >the people I percieved as principals in the thread. The point is, Ms. Johnson, it's not YOUR place to decide this. It's not mine, and it's not Xina's. It's not *anybody's* on this NG. That is why it's called an "open forum". Besides, you did MORE than "privately e-mail" folks: you posted a similar message (called "BLACKNESS -- CAREFUL!") on the Egyptian newsgroups about the "BLACKNESS IS..." thread, which only God knows how it got to sci.arch. But it's here, it's commented upon by Sci.arch readers, and really, it's relevant to the discussion of Egyptology, as I pointed ou in another post on this NG. Threads die as they will. Ride it out, and YOU chill for awhile. I did, like Stella, on the linguistic threads, the Pyramids and Aliens, et al., and you can on this. Regards -- Katherine Griffis (Greenberg) Member of the American Research Center in Egypt University of Alabama at Birmingham Special Studies http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/ccer/PEOPLE2.HTMLReturn to Top
Can anyone direct me to a source, online or otherwise tha contains the translations (as opposed to transliterations) for the names of the kings of Egypt? ThanksReturn to Top
I'd really like to see an ancient history group created. I'd happily move over to it, too... It would be nice not to have to go over so many posts. And it would probably be nice for sci.arch types to have a somewhat dedicated archaeology group without moderation.Return to Top
Can you please tell me if the symbol/numeral UD60 means anything in relation to satanism and if so, then what? Thanks.Return to Top
Hello Christopher. Am I correct in assuming that you don't even want to invest another word in that other thread? Is it too ambivalent for your blood? Fine by me. (or perhaps my server just lost your post... Christopher John Camfield wrote: > . . . > The idea of a city of the dead doesn't seem to be completely without > merit, but I find it difficult to believe that broken and damaged > equipment would have been part of any funerary bequest. I think the idea --- no, better --- I KNOW the idea of Knossos having been a necropolis is totally screwy! And all storerooms were big morgues right? With the multiple entryways allowing for many visitors to come honor their dead. And the dolphin floor decorations? Uuhhh... Try and fit that into it... Ridiculous. > Chadwick noted that "One series of Knossos tablets is undoubtably the > muster roll of the Panzertruppen or armoured brigade: each tablet records > a man's name, a chariot complete with wheels, a cuirass, and a pair of > horses" (this just from The Decipherment of Linear B, p108), apparently at > least 80 of them. Were they funerary gifts too? I'm sure. Horses, eh? Sounds suspiciously Eastern to me. > I can't imagine (?) that anyone argues that the Cretan sheep lists are > census data any more, unless peculiar estimations (which doesn't seem > credible). They could be sacrifices, or equally animals provided as tax. > It's an awful lot, in any case, which is kind of suspicious. However, as in > Homer, one can make sacrifices without them being solely to the dead, They say something like 100,000 sheep, don't they? And what, you think it wasn't a census stock count? Yeah right, they were just trying to confuse later era historians. > "The urge to discover secrets is deeply ingrained in human nature." > (John Chadwick, _The Decipherment of Linear B_) Much better quote. -- zoomQuake - A nifty, concise listing of over 200 ancient history links. Copy the linklist page if you want! (do not publish though) ----------> http://www.iceonline.com/home/peters5/Return to Top
rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote: situations. > Chill out. It was just a request. Do you go off like this every time > someone asks you to do something you don't want to do? God, Xina. > That's what delete buttons are for. I would say the same to you, Madame. It wasnt me who had the problem with the thread(s) in the first place. To you no discussion of biblical archaeology, egyptology, language or religion is appropriate to sci.archaeology unless we add pretentious bits about what we are studying and our up and coming accolades. I obviously do not agree with this stance. Do you have a problem co-existing with those of us who are a little more specialized in our topics? I appealed to the group, who have been here for the two years that I have been on, to clarify for me, since you obviously have an incredibly limited view of what archaeology is and isnt, to please clarify what *they* (not you, I already *know* your views as you mentioned through unsolicited advice on posting proceedure and netiquette) feel is acceptable or not. I'm waiting to hear from *them* and at this point care little for your insipid whining. Xina > > Cheers, > Rebecca Lynn Johnson > Ph.D. stud., Dept. of Anthropology, U IowaReturn to Top