Newsgroup sci.archaeology 49373

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Subject: Re: I analyze others chronologies, but you wont look at the Bible -- From: Eliyehowah
Subject: Re: Pyramids and Aliens -- From: Charlie Rigano
Subject: Grokking the analogues back of supposed history -> was I do not throw away history, but you throw away the Bible -- From: Pharaoh Chromium 93
Subject: Nefertiti -- From: fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank Joseph Yurco)
Subject: Original Egyptians -- From: fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank Joseph Yurco)
Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST)) -- From: 1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy)
Subject: Re: Original Egyptians -- From: fmurray@pobox,com (frank murray)
Subject: Re: Great Pyramid Dimensions. -- From: Chuck Blatchley
Subject: Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST) -- From: whittet@shore.net (Steve Whittet)
Subject: Re: Aircraft Flight Paths & Pyramids? -- From: Claudio De Diana
Subject: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology? -- From: Xina
Subject: What Topics Are Acceptable On Sci.Archaeology? -- From: Xina
Subject: Re: Why Great Pyramid 2170 BC -- From: chiksika@tir.com (chiksika)
Subject: HELP ---------- Information wanted -- From: dchermet@micronet.fr (Daniel Chermette)
Subject: Re: HELP ---------- Information wanted -- From: 1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy)
Subject: New Papyrus Discovered -- From: Saida
Subject: Ancient Egyptian -- From: mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal)
Subject: The Origins of the White Man -- From: Dominic Green
Subject: The Wisdom of the Ancient Greeks -- From: Dominic Green
Subject: "Air Shaft" Opening -- From: Andrew.Elms@datacraft.com.au (Elmo)
Subject: Re: BLACKNESS -- CAREFUL!! -- From: grifcon@mindspring.com (Katherine M. Griffis)
Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST)) -- From: The Hab
Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST)) -- From: Saida
Subject: Luwian script -- From: Beever
Subject: Update Timeline Anywhere? -- From: Warp~Tramp
Subject: Re: Blackness .......Be Carefull! (you be careful too!) -- From: rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology? -- From: rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Grokking the analogues back of supposed history -> Love is the Law, Love under Will -- From: Pharaoh Chromium 93
Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST)) -- From: "Jeffrey L. Jones"
Subject: Dig in Hearne, Texas -- From: Brandon
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology? -- From: S.NEMETH@IX.NETCOM.COM (Stella Nemeth)
Subject: Re: "Air Shaft" Opening -- From: S.NEMETH@IX.NETCOM.COM (Stella Nemeth)
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology? -- From: grifcon@mindspring.com (Katherine Griffis)
Subject: Graduate Research Project-Egypt -- From: kbirch@shore.intercom.net (Kevin Birch)
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology? -- From: Satrap Szabo
Subject: Re: UD60 -- From: Genebank International Limited Napier
Subject: Re: Knossos -- From: Satrap Szabo
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology? -- From: Xina

Articles

Subject: Re: I analyze others chronologies, but you wont look at the Bible
From: Eliyehowah
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:06:59 +0000
Bryan Atherton wrote:
> Eli, If there is so much error in the findings of past and present
> scholars, why should you be correct, you yourself claim that you are a
> voice going unheard, if you were correct in your claims and had any
> trace of proof your talk would not fall on deaf ears!  Why should we
> listen to you (no offence) but i need more than what sounds like mere
> speculation.
> P.S. I dont think anyone threw away the Bible, they just said it was
> interperated by "dunderheads".
John's voice and Jesus' voice fell on deaf ears too.
Was it because it was all bull or speculative?
What about Moses speaking for ALL the Israelites (most not wanting him)
and speaking to ALL of Egypt, its rulers, and scholars.
I understand your position of questioning. There are certainly a lot
of unheard little guys out there who ARE full of crap. So ask me
questions...not the usual YOU ARE WRONG rebuttals, but questions
for you to see the bigger picture of what I have found.
Afterall, I cant drag an Atlantic iceberg into your home, much less
show you the whole thing 90% underwater. Have to get in my sub to see
that, and submerging takes humility. If I can lower myself to read your
books to discover what YOU have overlooked, why cant you lower yourself
to accept that maybe I found something you skipped over !
************
A voice crying out and going unheard,
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/myPhoto.gif
(40 years Oct 7) Nehemiah's (9:1) 50th JUBILEE of Tishri 24 
elijah@wi.net
Discover the world's true chronology thru the Bible at
          http://www.execpc.com/~elijah
God's 1000 years has begun Sep 14 of 1996.
http://www.execpc.com/~elijah/Ezra1991CE.gif
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Subject: Re: Pyramids and Aliens
From: Charlie Rigano
Date: 28 Oct 1996 18:03:54 GMT
sudsm@aol.com (SUDSM) wrote:
>
>Baron & Charlie,
>.
>     Why shouldn't some of them be tombs and some just monuments?  
>The problem is in confusing the Great Pyramid with "the pyramids".  
>The GP was not and could not have been a tomb.  There is no 
>decoration of any kind anywhere within the GP.  That is 
>inconceivable for a tomb.  It is difficult enough to conceive that 
>it was even Egyptian!
Suds - DO ALITTLE RESEARCH - all you need is alittle to 
find that the pyramids of that period were all - ALL - 
undecorated inside. I have previously posted a list of 16 
king's pyramids - including the GP - that were all 
undecorated on the inside.  This list did not include the 
many minor pyramids of Dynasty III, IV, and V that were 
undecorated.
>.
>     It could not have been used as a tomb anyway.  The ascending 
>passage is sealed off by a twenty ton granite plug at its lower 
>end.  Even correcting for subsidence and other deterioration, that 
>plug could not have been moved in the ascending passage.  It has 
>to have been built in place right where it is.  Since the GP was 
>completed at least seven years before the death of Khufu, the so- 
>called King's Chamber and Queen's Chamber were inaccessible for 
>tombs, even if the lack of decortions did not rule out such use.
>.
There is no - NO - evidence that the plugs were built in 
place.  The evidence is just the opposite and indicates the 
only purpose of the Grand Gallery was to hold the plugs 
beore they were slid into place.  There is a corresponding 
architecture in the minor pyramid to the Bent that had the 
same ascending passage, gallery, and plugging method.  Only 
here, two of the four plugs did not slide into place and 
are still lodged at the top of the gallery.
>     There is no question, however, that the GP had enormous 
>religious significance to the Egyptians.  That would explain, not 
>only the "spirit ship" placed there, but also the copying of its 
>form ever after (and all over the world) for tombs and/or 
>monuments.  It also tends to confirm the theory that Zoser's 
>pyramid, and the two Sneferu pyramids, built before the GP, were 
>built for the purpose of developing the needed labor organizing 
>and building techniques, with the GP as the goal all along.
This last statement ranks somewhere just the other side of 
silly.  Do you care to propose any kind of supporting 
evidence???????
>.
>
Charlie
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Subject: Grokking the analogues back of supposed history -> was I do not throw away history, but you throw away the Bible
From: Pharaoh Chromium 93
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:23:56 -0500
http://alamut.alamut.org/c73/kuhn/sxsmbl.htm
http://www.irdg.com/pc93/kuhn.htm
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Subject: Nefertiti
From: fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank Joseph Yurco)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:41:56 GMT
Dear Xina and all,
Nefertiti was an Egyptian, nothing more nor less. Her parentage is known,
and her father was Ay, Akhenaten's courtier, who stemmed from the town
of Akhmim in southern Middle Egypt. If you go to Akhmim, today, you will
encounter women who look just like Nefertiti. Some are indeed as light
complexioned as that Berlin head of hers. Another point, I have never
used mummies to claim that Egyptians were "white". The whole "White"
"black" nonsense is just so much American social construct 19th century
baggage. Egyptians are Africans, north Africans to be exact, as I have
repeatedly stated, from my BAR article to the present. Africa has as much
diversity as any other continent. So, what's so shocking that Egyptians
come in all shades of brown, from lightest to darkest. They don't get
all bent out of shape by this issue, only Europeans and Americans do,
but as I noted, it is because of the old American social construct
that arose from the slave codes of the 19th century. It still permeates
in American society. One of the greatest horror cases I recall is that
an Egyptian from Edfu was classified by the Americans as "white"!!!
The man was actually dark brown, as all the people in Edfu are. That
shows, that it is the American view of Egyptians that is warped to
a point of ridicule. The same nonsense permeates some Egyptological
thinking. What study of mummies, statuary and depictions of Egyptians
in antiquity shows to the unbiased, is that like today, ancient Egyptians
varied from light to dark as you went north to south. Indeed, without
the convenience of modern travel, in ancient times, the diversity was
even sharper. 
Most sincerely,
Frank J. Yurco
University of Chicago
-- 
Frank Joseph Yurco                           fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
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Subject: Original Egyptians
From: fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank Joseph Yurco)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:23:34 GMT
To all who have posted on this subject:
The original Egyptians were Africans. Yet, contrary to claims of some,
in Africa, you have the same sort of wide diversity as there is in Europe
and Asia. So, the claim that because the ancient Egyptians were Africans,
a priori, they must have been black is just so much false speculation,
driven by the American social construct of "black" and "white". In brief,
the American social construct is: if one in eight great grandparents was
African, then the individual is black. This originated with the old
southern black slave codes, to deal with the problem of children of
African-Euro-American mixed unions. It has nothing whatever to do with
the facts of biology, and the reality of any continent's population.
Thus, with the wide diversity of the African continent, yes, the Egyptians
were of the North African variety. As some posters have noted their
language, Egypto-Coptic belongs among the north African languages, classed
as Afro-asiatic. Rightly, it was noted that Nubian and Meroitic do not
belong to this language family, but Omotic and other Ethiopian-Somali
languages are Afro-Asiatic. Ethnically, down the Nile today there is
an extremely wide diversity, from the various brown shades of Egyptians,
to the darker Nubian-Sudanese, and the very blackest people in Africa,
the Silluk, Dinka, and Nuer. The Egyptians dealt extensively with the
peoples of Nubia and Sudan, and in the Late-Old-Middle Kingdom, vast
numbers of Nubians were recruited from Yam-Kerma, to serve as soldiers
in Egypt. They were renowned as archers, recalling Nubia's ancient name
Ta Seti, "Land of the Bow". Even some of very dark Sudanese appeared
in Egypt, occasionally. The group of ladies buried behind Montu-hotep II's
funerary complex at Deir el-Bahri had several of such very dark women,
including Kemsit, Sadhe, and Ashayet. Also, the Egyptians very
occasionally encountered a Twa, as when Harkhuf got one from the Chief of
Yam, and excitedly reported this to Pepy II. As Pepy's return letter, 
that Harkhuf proudly placed in toto on the wall of his tomb at Aswan,
notes, the last Twa the Egyptians had seen was one brought from Punt,
by one Bawerdjed, who lived under Pharaoh Djed-ka-re Isesi in Dynasty 5.
So, the Egyptians were quite cognizant of the peoples south of them. 
The Yam Nubians did not speak Egypto-Coptic, and so, all the Aswan 
governors wer also bi-lingual, and titled translators. As Uni's auto-
biography shows, when such mixed Egyptian-Nubian military units went
into action, there had to be translators along with the army. Eventually
some of those Nubians settled in Egypt and intermarried, or brought
along Nubian wives. Gradually, they learned Egyptian, had funerary
stelas made, and so, as Henry Fischer's article in Kush 8 (1961) noted,
they became a reular presence in the population of southern and middle
Egypt. 
Thus, yes there were contacts and even migration from the south into
Egypt, but the earliest predynastic cultures arose distinctly in
southern Upper Egypt, between Nubt and Nekhen, and a distinct Delta
group of cultures also. In late Naqada II-Early III, the A-Group arose
in Lower Nubia, that is, First to Second Nile cataract area. These
A-Group were a mixture of Abkan indigenous Nubians and Naqadan Egyptians,
and when their first writing appears, it is Egypto-Coptic, and their
iconography was pharaonic, as the Qustul cemetery excavations showed.
That is the furthest south Egyptian culture went. The Khartoum Meso and
Neolithic culture was distinct, in pottery, and in other traditions. Only
in the remotest Pre-Dynastic, is Badarian pottery somewhat akin to
Khartoum Neolithic. The strongest migration patterns in the early
Predynastic were east-west. As the Sahara dessicated slowly, many
Saharamns migrated into Egypt and Nubia. So, those are the common
ancestors of both the Badarians and the Khartoum Neolithic, and indeed,
Saharan pottery is similar to both Khartoum Neolithic and Badarian. 
So, the idea that the Egyptians came from somewhere way south of Nubia-
Sudan, is again, just speculation and mis-information.
Most sincerely,
Frank J. Yurco
University of Chicago
-- 
Frank Joseph Yurco                           fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
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Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST))
From: 1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:42:20 -0500
In article <3274E9E4.2749@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>, Saida  wrote:
[cut]
: Butros-Ghali is a Copt, which makes him a descendant of the ancient 
: Egyptians.  Would I classify him as white?  Well, he's not black.  He 
: should be whatever he wants to be.  My guess is he would say "I am an 
: Egyptian."
[cut]
Saida,
Not trying to start another war, but I hope you were not implying that
only the Copts are descendents of ancient Egyptians.
My belief is that present day Egyptians regardless of religion are 
descendants of the ancient ones.
Have a good day,
Hussein
-- 
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the
mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).
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Subject: Re: Original Egyptians
From: fmurray@pobox,com (frank murray)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:38:01 GMT
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:23:34 GMT, fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank
Joseph Yurco) wrote:
>To all who have posted on this subject:
>. In brief, the American social construct is: if one in eight great grandparents was
>African, then the individual is black.
frank y,
because your posts usually hold themselves to tight reasoning from
acceptable evidence, the above statement, which i'd have passed over
had it been written by some here, i'll challenge...
to whom is this the "American social construct"??...are you speaking
of some particular governmental classification??...if so your phrase
outsteps its referent...
but if the phrase is to be taken in the common usage of "social
construct", what evidence is your view based upon??...
frank m
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Subject: Re: Great Pyramid Dimensions.
From: Chuck Blatchley
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:52:44 -0800
Steve Whittet wrote:
>
> Using the height of the GP as the radius of a circle
> we get a circle with a circumference equal to the perimeter
> of the GP as close as we are able to measure it.
> C = Pi*d gives
> 1760/560 = Pi = 3.1428 as a value for Pi off by .001
> 
> Have you ever wondered why there are exactly twice as many seconds
> in a century as inches in the circumference of the Earth
> 
>         100 x 365.24  x 24 x 60 x 60/24902.72727 x 5280 x 12 x 2 = 1
> 
> or why these increments show up in the base measures of the Great
> Pyramid.
>
You provided an amazing compilation of units and correlations but left 
out the fact that there are roughly pi x 10^7 seconds in a year to within 
0.004, or less, in the distant past when the year was shorter.  This is 
doubtful evidence that the duration of a second was designed to express 
such a relationship.  Yours (and Tompkins') compilations make similar 
leaps.   I'd feel more comfortable with some of the more obscure 
hypothesized connections if there was more contemporary evidence. Phi is 
only a little harder to believe than pi, but the preservation of all 
those units begs for more proof.  
Chuck Blatchley                         
FAX:  235-4050                          Pittsburg State University
email:  cblatchl@pittstate.edu          Pittsburg, KS 66762
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Subject: Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST)
From: whittet@shore.net (Steve Whittet)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 20:54:17 GMT
In article <552dq9$ifn@halley.pi.net>, mcv@pi.netÁ says...
>
>pmanansala@csus.edu (Paul Kekai Manansala) wrote:
>
>>In article <54t6kq$sel@halley.pi.net>,
>>   mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal) wrote:
>>>My arguments were based on the modern classification of the Afro-Asiatic
>>>languages, which is basically in agreement with Greenberg. 
>
>>Then, Egyptian is not any closer to Semitic than Cushitic, right?
>
>Subgrouping of language families is a notoriously difficult issue.
Apparently.
Hi Mike, 
I have been trying to follow the logic here. The only evidence for 
language is written. There is no written language which predates the
Naquada. 
Even starting from that point there are at least a couple
of dozen major waves of immigration in and out of Egypt spread 
over a period of at least 6,000 years. 
Some people entering Egypt certainly came through Nubia, or the 
modern Sudan and others came through Libya, modern Chad. There
were also people who entered Egypt from the Mediterranean and the
Red Sea and there were people who entered Egypt from Palestine.
Many of these immigrants were in the process of passing through
these places on their way from even more distant realms.
There almost certainly were regular waves of people coming
from Arabia across the Red Sea to Egypt. There likewise were
people coming across the Mediterranean from Cyprus, Crete
and the Aegean. There were Mesopotamians, Syrians, Lebanese
and Ethiopians. Who knows where the Hyksos came from.
There may have been people from even farther afield. Dilmunites,
the people of Makkan, Meluhha and Punt, people from India and
perhaps Bactria and Europe.
Why wouldn't all of these people have brought some elements of their
own languages with them? Look how rich American English has become
from the borrowed words of its immigrants, why should Egyptian not
shown some evidence of its heritage as well?
>When Greenberg listed the 5 branches of Afro-Asiatic as co-ordinate,
>he was essentially taking an agnostic position.  Since then (1963),
>it has become increasingly clear that the Cushitic group has to be
>split into at least 3 "independent" groups (within Afro-Asiatic, of
>course): Omotic (was: West Cushitic), Beja (was: North Cushitic) and
>Cushitic Proper (Central Cushitic, Eastern and Southern Cushitic).
>Fleming would now also detach Central Cushitic.  Of these groups, only
>Beja shows a special affinity with Ancient Egyptian on a scale
>comparable with Semitic or Berber.
The idea that the major influence on Egyptian language  came from 
Kush, Semitic and Berber only or that they  came early and stayed 
late, neglects the role of other influences just passing through.
>
>>>There is no direct evidence for the language of the A-group Nubians.
>>>Based on the early geographical distribution of the Nilo-Saharan and
>>>Afro-Asiatic peoples, my speculation would be Northern Cushitic (Beja).
What troubles me about this "Afro Asiatic" label is the focus on
"early" and "geographic distribution". Neither of these really need
be considered a constraint.
>
>>So you do think A-group Nubians were related to the Beja.   Therefore, a 
>>language family at least as close to Egyptian as Semitic (according to
>>Greenberg's classification) would be found along the Nile at the
>>time of Egyptian state formation.
Did the Egyptian language stay static, fixed in the form it had
at the time of Egypts state formation, for all the millenia of its
existence, or did it develop dialects which were not reflected in
its formalized hieroglyphic script?
Why does the XVIIIth Dynasty suddenly require a huge influx of
new glyphs?
>
>Yes, if this speculation is correct, actually two: Egyptian itself and
>"Proto-Beja" (according to taste: North-Cushitic or South-Egyptian).
>This is assuming A-group was different from C-group ethnically.  I'm
>told some archaeologists now think C-group is a continuation of A-group,
>in which case the A-group Nubians would again seem to be Nilo-Saharans.
>It's a difficult issue.  Just looking at the map, Nilo-Saharan clearly
>seems intrusive in Nubia, but that gives no indication at all of the
>dates...
Just looking at the map fails to take into account the mobility
of people and the way that water allows people from one region
to move through other peoples territory leaving no trace of their
passage but only evidence of what appears to have been a geographically
isolated connection at the end.
>
>
>==
>Miguel Carrasquer Vidal    
steve
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Subject: Re: Aircraft Flight Paths & Pyramids?
From: Claudio De Diana
Date: 28 Oct 1996 17:12:04 GMT
alford@dial.pipex.com (Alan Alford) wrote:
>Until someone comes up with a better explanation, I am sticking to the
>theory published in my recent book "Gods of the New Millennium" that the
>shafts were an integral part of a massive hydrogen gas power generator
>(http://www.eridu.co.uk/minisites/giza.html). This is by no means a
>crackpot idea but is based on a full and detailed analysis of physical
>evidence inside the Pyramid 
			 My theory is, of course, based on a completely
>different paradigm of human history, but this is hardly the time and place
>to go into that one...
	Dear Sir,
	I will not discuss the different paradigm of human history
	so well exposed in your homepage. 
	I would like to discuss the new paradigm of cooling exposed
	in your location http://www2.eridu.co.uk/eridu/synopsis/chapter9.html:
*************************************************************************************
Was the burning of hydrogen gas the source of the Great Pyramid's energy? Alan Alford
highlights several features of the King's Chamber which leave little doubt that this was the
source of the hydrogen fire. The mysterious granite "coffer" and the blackened entrance to
one "airshaft" are the obvious clues. Less obvious is the series of "construction chambers"
above the King's Chamber. These chambers are formed by five granite beams, the largest
stones in the entire structure, weighing up to 70 tons. The Egyptologists have never
explained why so many of these huge granite beams were necessary, nor why the blocks
possessed polished bottoms and rough tops. Alan Alford suggests that these chambers were
deliberately designed to function as a chimney, which gradually dissipated the heat from
the hydrogen fire. He points out that granite is an excellent heat conductor, and that,
furthermore, the combination of a smooth bottom and rough top would enable each
granite beam to give off more heat than it absorbed.
***************************************************************************************
	If you say that:
	"each granite beam" (is able) "to give off more heat than it absorbed"
	this means to me that the granite beam is actually hotter than the 
	surface, i.e. the granite is a source of heat and not a cooler!
	In order to make you understand what means "heat dissipation"
	imagine to a have a water tub with an hole, you can pour water inside
	(at a known ratio) and measure the flow out of the hole. 
	if you pour inside 100 l/sec of water from the hole you can measure
	a maximum water flow of 100 l/sec of water.
	If, by any chance, you measure more than 100 l/sec of water,
	say 110 l/sec, that means that you have TWO sources, yours - 100 l/sec -
	and an hendogenous one which counts for 10 l/sec.
	Please do inform me if you have understand, I will explain it again to you.
	Another experiment that I suggest to you require:
	- a "brick" of granite (is it possible- at least in europe - to find small
	piece fit for use a "floor stone" of a given section and size
	- a "brick" of metal (same thickness), I suggest copper but also aluminium
	works fine, section and size as above.
	- two pots with a diameter minor or equal to the size of the bricks of 
	such a shape that they are completely covered by the "brick"
	Pour same water - same amount - in both pots,
	place them on the fire,
	cover them with the "bricks" of the two material (one is granite and the other a metal)
	put your hands (bare hands) on them.
	The hand which is hurted before the other is placed on the
	best conductive element.
	Have a nice time and then explain me why the builder of your
	"reactor" choose granite for cooling.
>
>In summary, my analysis predicts an empty chamber behind the doorway. The
>symbolic theories predict Egyptian relics or Khufu's body. When the
>doorway has been opened, we will have a better idea of whether the
>functional or symbolic theory is correct. Then will be the best time to
>debate these matters further.
	In the meanwhile I suggest the following thema:
*** What are the main parts of a power generator plant? open Discussion***
>A. Alford
	Best regards,
	Claudio De Diana
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Subject: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology?
From: Xina
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:20:14 -0600
All:
Lately it has come to my attention that there are certain among us that
do not appreciate our discussion of Egyptology, Religion, Mythology, or
Linguistics on this newsgroup, feeling that these subject are not really
related to sci.archaeology in thier subject matter.    Could someone
please clarify for me if these things are indeed unrelated to
sci.archaeology?  Is there an FAQ somewhere that we can refer to if
there is a question as whether or not a particular topic is relevant to
the group.
Im putting this question out there for you long time participants as
well as the newer ones.  Any help that you could give to put this matter
to rest would be most appreciated!
Ankh udja seneb!
Xina
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Subject: What Topics Are Acceptable On Sci.Archaeology?
From: Xina
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:53:49 -0600
All:
Recently it has come to my attention that there are certain among us
that do not appreciate our discussion of Egyptology, religion,
mythology, or linguistics on this newsgroup, feeling that these subjects
are not **really** related to sci.archaeology in thier subject matter.
Could someone please clarify for me if these things are indeed unrelated
to sci.archaeology?  Is there an FAQ somewhere that we can refer to if
there is a question as whether or not a particular topic is relevant to
the group.
Im putting this question out there for you long time participants as
well as the newer ones.  Any help that you could give to put this matter
to rest would be most appreciated!
Ankh udja seneb!
Xina
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Subject: Re: Why Great Pyramid 2170 BC
From: chiksika@tir.com (chiksika)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:51:58 GMT
Eliyehowah  wrote:
>The Great Pyramid was built in 2170 BC.
>It was NOT built in 25 years, but rather the 25-year claim
  BISHOP USHER!!!!!! Wow.I thought you were dead!!!  Lets see now the
earth was created in 1430bc at exactly 3:15pm..................
Red Wings Fan
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Subject: HELP ---------- Information wanted
From: dchermet@micronet.fr (Daniel Chermette)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 21:29:12 GMT
I'm a french student, and I really need any informations concerning
carbon 14 dating,to make a thesis.
If it could be possible,I'm looking for any description of any 
experiments and any measurement using Carbon 14.....
Please Answer...........
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Subject: Re: HELP ---------- Information wanted
From: 1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:09:20 -0500
In article <5538j8$6g6@chleuasme.francenet.fr>, dchermet@micronet.fr (Daniel Chermette) wrote:
: I'm a french student, and I really need any informations concerning
: carbon 14 dating,to make a thesis.
: If it could be possible,I'm looking for any description of any 
: experiments and any measurement using Carbon 14.....
: Please Answer...........
Try the following URL:
          http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/c14/webinfo/indextext.html
Have a good day,
Hussein
-- 
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the
mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).
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Subject: New Papyrus Discovered
From: Saida
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:26:28 -0600
Some time ago, during a linguistic discussion, I wrote of a strange 
glyph that looked to me like the top half of an old-fashioned radio.  
Some of my detractors no doubt snickered at this notion, but, since 
then, a couple of new developments have come to light that are on the 
verge of proving that the ancient Egyptians did, indeed, have radios!  A 
friend of mine has just explained, somewhere else on the Internet, how 
the Egyptians were able to obtain electricity utilizing the remains of 
dead ibises (You always wondered why there were so many ibis mummies!) 
and now I am pleased to inform you that a papyrus has surfaced that 
appears to be an actual radio script!  Newly deciphered, this text seems 
to be a dialogue between two characters named Abeet and Ka-sta-ur, the 
latter being, for some unknown reason, also called "Lou".  Written in a 
unique format, the content of the papyrus is as follows:
Ka-sta-ur (pointing to statue):  Hey, Abeet, who's the big guy?
Abeet:  I'm glad you asked me that, Lou.  That's Ahmose the First.
Lou:  Ahmose the First?  If he was Ahmose the First, who was the real 
first?
Abeet:  HE was the first.
Lou:  You said he was Ahmose the First.
Abeet:  That's right.  Ahmose the First.
Lou:  I heard you the first time, Abeet. You said Ahmose the First, so 
I'm asking--who was first?
Abeet:  Ahmose was.
Lou:  I thought he was Ahmose the First.
Abeet:  Now you're catching on.
Lou:  You think so?  But who was on first?
Abeet:  On where?
Lou:  That chair!
Abeet:  What's it look like?  Ahmose the First!
Lou:  Oooh, Abeet, that ain't nice.  I know he was Ahmose the First, but 
now I'm asking you for the tenth time--who's on first?
Abeet:  On where?
Lou:  That chair!
Abeet:  For pete's sake, Lou.  The guy in the chair is Ahmose the First!
Lou:  Okay, okay, don't get mad.  Just tell me one thing--why was he 
Ahmose the First?
Abeet:  Why?  That's a stupid question.
Lou:  You got the answer?
Abeet:  Well, sure I do!  Because he wasn't the Second!
Lou:  I thought you said he WAS the Second!
Abeet:  No I didn't, Dummy.  I said he was Ahmose the First.
Lou:  That's right.  The Second.
Abeet:  You're asking for it, Lou.  For the last time, he wasn't the 
Second.
Lou:  Came in third, huh?
Abeet:  Came in where?
Lou:  That chair!  But who's on first?
Abeet:  I'm counting to three, Lou...
Lou:  Is that a clue, Abeet?
Abeet:  No, I think they call it Murder One.  I'll give you a head 
start, Lou.  One...two...three...
TRICK OR TREAT!  HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
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Subject: Ancient Egyptian
From: mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:01:02 GMT
whittet@shore.net (Steve Whittet) wrote:
>In article <552dq9$ifn@halley.pi.net>, mcv@pi.netÁ says...
>>
>>pmanansala@csus.edu (Paul Kekai Manansala) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <54t6kq$sel@halley.pi.net>,
>>>   mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal) wrote:
>>>>My arguments were based on the modern classification of the Afro-Asiatic
>>>>languages, which is basically in agreement with Greenberg. 
>>
>>>Then, Egyptian is not any closer to Semitic than Cushitic, right?
>>
>>Subgrouping of language families is a notoriously difficult issue.
>Hi Mike, 
>I have been trying to follow the logic here. The only evidence for 
>language is written. There is no written language which predates the
>Naquada. 
>Even starting from that point there are at least a couple
>of dozen major waves of immigration in and out of Egypt spread 
>over a period of at least 6,000 years. 
[...]
>Why wouldn't all of these people have brought some elements of their
>own languages with them? Look how rich American English has become
>from the borrowed words of its immigrants, why should Egyptian not
>shown some evidence of its heritage as well?
But it does!
>Did the Egyptian language stay static, fixed in the form it had
>at the time of Egypts state formation, for all the millenia of its
>existence, or did it develop dialects which were not reflected in
>its formalized hieroglyphic script?
Egyptian changes gradually through time, even the formalized writing
system cannot conceal that fact.  The Coptic dialects are another proof.
The fascinating thing however, and if you would take the time to study
some introductory textbooks on historical linguistics you'd find that
out for yourself, Esteban, is that despite all these multi-cultural and
multi-ethnic influences and borrowings, despite all the language change
and phonetic decay and mangling of grammar, despite formalized and
confusing writing systems, American English is still English, and not a
confused and amorphous hodge-podge.  It is quite easily ID-able as a
Western Germanic language, desecended from Proto-Indo-European, spoken,
but not written, thousands of years ago.  The tell-tale signs are all
over, and learning to identify them is not rocket-science, it's quite
easy, once you know and recognize the basic principles.  Try it.
The same with Ancient Egyptian.  Sure, the language's phonetics and
grammar change, often radically, from Old Kingdom Egyptian to Coptic.
Sure, the Egyptians borrowed Semitic words and Nubian words and Greek
words, and whatnot, and it is a fascinating, and historically relevant,
subject in itself to trace the different borrowings to their sources.
But still, the core remains unmistakeably Egyptian, unmistakeably
Afro-Asiatic, and that tells us something crucial about the history of
the Egyptians as well.
==
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal                     ~ ~
Amsterdam                   _____________  ~ ~
mcv@pi.net                 |_____________|||
========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cig
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Subject: The Origins of the White Man
From: Dominic Green
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:36:37 +0000
In article <543vdo$qib@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, GROOVE YOU
 writes:
>Peter Van wrote: There are real  genetic advantages to being light
>skinned if you lived in Northern Europe, just as there are real genetic
>advantages to being dark skinned if you live closer to the equator.
>
>What advantages? anyone can crawl into a cave to keep warm"...
The advantages of Differing in Colour lie in Camouflage.  Black persons,
for example, would have been primarily Nocturnal in their original
African environment.  For years, the American Negro has been unjustly
accused of indolence and torpor, when it is only his Daytime Self which
the observer is seeing.  Black people are passionately hard-working
persons at night, however, as the Crime Statistics for Harlem vividly
illustrate.  White persons, on the other hand, obviously originate in
Heavy Snowfields*, and do not belong anywhere below the Treeline;
possibly Abominable Snowpersons are the world's only remaining Proto-
Europeans, which would explain why Asiatics** devote so much time and
energy to Scalping them.  Red Indians and Ginger-Haired Individuals,
meanwhile, evidently come from Mars, and should be treated with extreme
caution, and possibly also heavy disinfectants.
Yours
Reverend Colonel Ignatius Churchward Von Berlitz M.A. (Dom. Sci.) Oxon. 
(Oklahoma)
*Why are White Persons, then, not White All Over?  There is an answer so simple
a Madman could have thought of it.  It would have been essential for Caucasoid
Tribes to be able to recognize loved ones buried in the snow by Dangerous
Avalanches and distinguish them from, say, the Tip of a Hungry Lurking Dugong by
their brown, black or blonde coiffes protruding from the snow.  There are few
Totally Albino White Persons, a fact which would have reassured the Early
Caucasians when faced with a lumbering object which, being neither Blonde nor
Brunette, could be identified in good time as a Polar Bear.  Polar Bears have,
indeed, been observed in the wild to Roll in Henna to eliminate this
disadvantage.
**I have excluded Asiatics from this argument because they are so obviously Not
Like Us Black And White Folks.
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Subject: The Wisdom of the Ancient Greeks
From: Dominic Green
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:35:20 +0000
It seems that the more advanced our Modern Society grows, the more
feeble becomes our knowledge of how to build a Sun-Focussing Inca
Masonry Laser out of Coca Leaves and Llama-Spit.  We would do well to
heed the wisdom of the Ancient Greeks, who were aware that the Sun went
round the Earth BEFORE BUZZ ALDRIN SET FOOT ON THE SUN AND PROVED IT.
Indeed, there is speculation in Oklahoman circles that Neil Armstrong
already knew the Moon was there before he visited it, since he possessed
Ancient Maps drawn by Lucian of Samosata, since conveniently burnt in
the Great Library of Alexandria.  Images on Ancient Egyptian Books Of
The Dead superficially appear to be Mesoamericans snorting Cocaine
through rolled-up Chinese paper money, but may in fact be a race of Star
Beings with Nose-Mounted Probes For Refuelling In Flight, or possibly
for Clasping the Female During Mating.  There is every likelihood that
Melons and Elephants were involved.  Furthermore, the Egyptians KNEW
THAT VENUS WAS A RINGED PLANET, even if Modern Astronomers do not.
Venus is distinctly saucer-shaped.  I have seen it, many times, on the
horizon, going BLEEP and Manoeuvring About For A Powered Landing.  Then,
many small Venusians egress the planet, proclaim this to be a Giant
Fetid Ooze for Venusiunkind, and express a desire to Abduct Some
Terrestrial Poontang.  My dear friend Professor Michael Heridoth has
been Abducted many times, and still wakes up in the middle of the night
screaming about Huge Cigar-Shaped Objects.  However, THE VENUSIANS ARE
OUR FRIENDS.  Does one have Sex with one's enemies, unless one is a
Preying Mantis or a member of the KGB?  Professor Heridoth assures me
that the Venusians are neither Preying Mantises nor members of the KGB,
but instead Huge Luminous Nudibranchs.  Like Terrestrial Nudibranchs,
they wear Sandals and carry their Change in small leather pouches.
Their Mission on Earth is merely to warn us of the Terrible Peril in
which we place ourselves by Meddling With The Atom.  However, I have
informed the Venusian Prime Minister, during a particularly stimulating
Abduction session, that Atoms are very Small, and there is very little
likelihood using current Terrestrial Technology of Meddling with the
Specific Atom of which he speaks.  I suggested removal of this Atom to
Venus, where it could be retained for safekeeping until Earthmen had
Come Of Age and begun Masturbating Furiously.  In the interim period, of
course, we could rely on safe Wind- and Dolphin-Driven* Power Sources,
and carry our Change in small leather pouches, and wear Sandals.
Yours
Reverend Colonel Ignatius Churchward Von Berlitz M.A. (Dom. Sci.) Oxon. 
(Oklahoma)
*Many people have spoken to me of the Friendly, Helpful, Intelligent character
of these small Odontocetes.  It seems to me that such Intelligence could be put
to work for Mutual Benefit, possibly by having many thousands of Dolphins
swimming in an enormous Turbine with Sharpened Blades as an incentive to keep
Swimming Faster. We would gain enormous benefit from the arrangement, and the
Dolphins would gain a Juicy Fish at the end of the day.  Possibly thousands of
them could be shipped across the Atlantic in small, claustrophobic boats, with
their Flippers chained together.
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Subject: "Air Shaft" Opening
From: Andrew.Elms@datacraft.com.au (Elmo)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 18:45:14 GMT
Q: How do they plan to actually open the door at the end of the shaft?
I recently saw the footage of the robots accent to the door and began
to wonder how they plan to get the robot around the door. The stone
block could be rather large.
Also if this really is a door that could be sealing up another chamber
or tunnel, then has this chamber or tunnel show up on any seismic or
ultrasonic surveys ?
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Subject: Re: BLACKNESS -- CAREFUL!!
From: grifcon@mindspring.com (Katherine M. Griffis)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:53:58 GMT
rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote:
>Hello to all the posters on this thread who are not posting through 
>sci.archaeology...
>Unless your post has archaeological relevance, please do not copy it to 
>sci.archaeology.  You are flooding this group with a debate that is less 
>and less a debate than a series of harangues and diatribes, with little 
>attention to archaeological and anthropological contributions to the 
>concept of race in general and egypt in particular.  I have seen very 
>little in most of these posts that archaeology is in a position to 
>comment upon.
Actually, much of this discussion has been *directly related* to
archaeological and anthopological evidence, being an interpretation of
textual, linguistic, and artifact evidence, Ms. Johnson.  Sorry, if
YOU haven't seen it, but it's been there, from myself, Manasala,
Sagrillo, Yurco, and others.    I see no attempt to discuss
*off-topics* here.
As for the tone, you must realize that this is something of an
emotional topic even among professionals, and one that cannot be
ignored, IMHO, by either side.  We only learn when the issue is
discussed openly, and since we are all human, then the interplay of
humans often lead to "high emotions".
As for the "cross-posting" you comment upon, this issue began long
before I saw you get involved.  It remains an Egyptological  issue
that interests *some people* who regular post to sci.arch, and
possibly no other NG.  Egyptology IS a valid area of interest on
sci.arch and has been for as long as *I* have read the NG.
>If you wish to inject new life into this thread, consider the following:  
>in current anthropological thought, 'race' is a concept with little 
>objective support (there is as much physical variation within 'races' as 
>between).  Ergo, 'race' is an eminently political concept.  Notice that 
>political does not equal politically-correct -- p.c. is an epithet 
>employed by people who wish to dismiss other opinions out of hand rather 
>than to discuss them.  'Race' has long been a political tool of 
>governments in many nations.  The very fact that 'race' is culturally and 
>politically defined means that what the Egyptians 'were' or 'were not' is 
>as indeterminate as it is irrelevant.  I suspect you would find a 
>discussion of the politics (in a very broad sense) and cultural 
>importance of knowing 'what' the Egyptians 'were' a far more profitable 
>line of inquiry.
While *I* may personally agree with your assessment about the terms of
*race* in this discussion, you must realize this IS an issue that will
not go away because either YOU or I say anything about it.  As you may
have noted in a previous private post to you, I agreed with your
assessment, but also said that each side feels it MUST make its case.
The last *I* checked the FAQ for sci.arch, this was still an allowable
area of discussion, and one that periodically comes up.
Nothing says that YOU have to read it, however.
Regards --
Katherine Griffis (Greenberg)
Member of the American Research Center in Egypt
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Special Studies
http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/ccer/PEOPLE2.HTML  
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Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST))
From: The Hab
Date: 29 Oct 1996 00:15:28 GMT
1@2.3 (Hussein Essawy) wrote:
>In article <3274E9E4.2749@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>, Saida  wrote:
>[cut]
>: Butros-Ghali is a Copt, which makes him a descendant of the ancient 
>: Egyptians.  Would I classify him as white?  Well, he's not black.  He 
>: should be whatever he wants to be.  My guess is he would say "I am an 
>: Egyptian."
>[cut]
>
>Saida,
>
>Not trying to start another war, but I hope you were not implying that
>only the Copts are descendents of ancient Egyptians.
>
>My belief is that present day Egyptians regardless of religion are 
>descendants of the ancient ones.
True. All Egyptians are decendents of the ancients. Maybe he means that 
the Copts are culturally more similar???
The Hab
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Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST))
From: Saida
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:24:01 -0600
Hussein Essawy wrote:
> 
> In article <3274E9E4.2749@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>, Saida  wrote:
> [cut]
> : Butros-Ghali is a Copt, which makes him a descendant of the ancient
> : Egyptians.  Would I classify him as white?  Well, he's not black.  He
> : should be whatever he wants to be.  My guess is he would say "I am an
> : Egyptian."
> [cut]
> 
> Saida,
> 
> Not trying to start another war, but I hope you were not implying that
> only the Copts are descendents of ancient Egyptians.
> 
> My belief is that present day Egyptians regardless of religion are
> descendants of the ancient ones.
> 
> Have a good day,
> Hussein
Hi, ya Hussein--I didn't mean to slight anyone--just referring to 
Butros-Ghali, specifically.  You are right; there will be many 
non-Coptic Egyptians with the same distant ancestors.
> 
> --
> Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proof-read with the help of the
> mailer, his postmaster, and if necessary, his upstream provider(s).
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Subject: Luwian script
From: Beever
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:29:01 -0800
In a recent posting to this group, a question was asked regarding the 
antiquity of the Anatolian script used to write the "Luwian" language.
The question was deflected with a reference to the Phaistos Disk.
I am aware that the Karatepe inscription and others from the 
"Neo-Hittite" sphere (e.g. Carchemish, Zincirli) can be securely dated to 
the First Millenium.  I believe the language of these inscriptions is 
generally called "Luwian".
I have seen a long inscription in this script (or at least a very similar 
script) at Bogazkoy (Hattusa) and have been told it dates to Suppiluliuma 
II (early 12th Cen.)
What is the earliest example of an inscription in this script?
What is the language of the Hattusa inscription?
________
Also a note on "Hittite" words that may have made it into English.  It 
has been suggested that the word "Asia" may have originated from an 
Anatolian place name (ASSUWA in Hittite records) possibly referring to 
the area later referred to as Lydia.  This would have come into English 
via "Mycenaean Greek".
Beever
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Subject: Update Timeline Anywhere?
From: Warp~Tramp
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:18:12 -0800
Hi,
I'm looking for the most recent (and accepted) timeline and lexicon of
ancient history's events, peoples and places. I want something that's up
to date and relflects the latest in archeological findings. Online
reference is ok as an extra but I mainly need a serious size book.
Thanks a meg for your help,
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Subject: Re: Blackness .......Be Carefull! (you be careful too!)
From: rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:36:10 -0600
Jeeezz...this must be the "info superhighway" version of being shot by some
nut who thinks you cut them off....
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Xina wrote:
> > Hello to all the posters on this thread who are not posting through
> > sci.archaeology...
> > 
> > Unless your post has archaeological relevance, please do not copy it to sci.archaeology.  You are flooding this group with a debate that is less and less a debate than a series of harangues and diatribes, with little
> > attention to archaeological and anthropological contributions to the
> > concept of race in general and egypt in particular.  
> 
> Rebecca:
> 
> Its wonderful that you have taken it upon yourself to decide precisely
> what is relevent to the newsgroup sci.archaeology, shall we, along with
> your up and coming scholastic laurels in anthropology assign you the
> title of newsgroup police officer?
Xina, note two things:  it was a request, and it was not an unusual or 
unreasonable one.  There is no need to get personal about it -- all you 
had to do was ignore it.  
> Its all very nice to criticize the threads that you yourself have not
> been participating in.  
So at what point is a lurker entitled to enter into a discussion?  Just 
because I hadn't anything to say as it was going on, doesn't mean that 
when the thread starts to die I have no right to observe as much.  Don't 
you think it's a little hypocritical to assert your right to say whatever 
you damn well please, whenever and wherever you damn well please, and at 
the same time to say that I have no right to disagree?
If you yourself admit that the thread was going to die, why are you so 
upset at my asking it to go die elsewhere?  You're being far more 
aggressive in trying to stamp me out than I ever dreamed of being in 
asking the thread to go elsewhere.
Finally, Xina, you could have made all of your points without being 
mean.  Go back and read my original post -- how many personal aspersions 
do you see there?
Chill out, Xina.  I made a request and a suggestion.  All you needed to 
do was ignore them.
Cheers,
Rebecca Lynn Johnson
Ph.D. stud., Dept. of Anthropology, U Iowa
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Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology?
From: rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:13:44 -0600
Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle, Xina.  One measly private post asking you 
to be careful about posting to multiple newsgroups, and you act like I am 
trying to censor you personally.  Relax.  I sent similar messages to all 
the people I percieved as principals in the thread.
Just because I do not post to a thread does not mean I don't follow it.  
As of this weekend, that thread seemed to have become *archaeologically* 
sterile.  It is not an unusual occurrence for people from one newsgroup 
to ask people from other ng's to edit their headers in such situations.  
Chill out.  It was just a request.  Do you go off like this every time 
someone asks you to do something you don't want to do?  God, Xina.  
That's what delete buttons are for.
Cheers,
Rebecca Lynn Johnson
Ph.D. stud., Dept. of Anthropology, U Iowa
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Subject: Re: Grokking the analogues back of supposed history -> Love is the Law, Love under Will
From: Pharaoh Chromium 93
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:35:55 -0500
                              CHAPTER XVI
                             LOVE AND HATE
The world of studentship has never followed with seriousness or
constancy the mighty implications of the ascription of masculine gender
to spirit and of feminine to matter. With the expectation of finding
that an examination of the relationship between male and female will
yield an enlightening theoria of universal creation, the challenge to
inquiry now is to face the data frontally and not only with an open
mind, but with an eye keenly fixed to see what is there. Even then it is
necessary to use the clues and threads of discernment that have been
provided us by ancient insight. It is found, then, that there will be no
mistake in undeviatingly reading spirit or spiritual reference for the
male symbol or personation, and matter or the physical for the female
emblemism. The fact that this usage will prove its unfailing pertinence
and dependability, in all cases with astonishing precision, will come as
itself a revelation of no minor moment to those not conversant with the
almost mathematical faithfulness and reliability of these forms of
ancient symbolic method.
The place to begin the examination is at the point of the breaking apart
of the unity into the duality. As to this, it must constantly be borne
in mind that in spite of an act of bifurcation of itself, Deity does not
destroy its eternal oneness. It has not become two, even though it has
cleft its being into two aspects. It has not become itself and something
else not itself. This is logically impossible. It has converted itself
into a duality. It has not become two, in any sense exterior to itself.
It has evolved a twoness within itself. God can not, dialectically,
project anything outside himself, since he is all there is. All things
are and remain inside the being of the Su-
230
preme. God can no more become two than man is two, from the mere fact of
his having, or rather being, both a spirit and a body. God--and man like
him--is a unit, although he is composed of dual energies. The conflict
and tension between positive and negative polarities is ever necessary
to bring the life of God forth to view in concrete worlds. So life has
to set up this stress and pressure within itself. How could Being lay
hold of and so move substance to form its creation if it could not
oppose one arm of itself, so to say, against another arm, so as to be
able to get a grip on the material to be moved into place for the
creation? Figuratively speaking, how could it create if it could not
oppose thumb to fingers, left hand to right, lever against fulcrum,
conscious design or will against objects, mind against matter? Tensional
opposition of the two pulls of a polarized duality is as inevitable as
the fact that a coin must have two sides. There could be no existence,
no things, if there was no front and back, up and down, in and out, to
and fro, movement and inertia. Duality, presaging the subsistence of a
strain between the two portions, is an inexorable postulate of conscious
being, and sprang into appearance as soon as life emerged from the
unseen into the visible stage and took organic form.
The interaction begins the moment the two sides are established as
distinct units in the being of the whole. It takes the form of the only
thinkable action that two things can exert toward or upon each other,--a
mutual tugging and pulling. They are set in relation to each other in
much the same way as are two balls of lead tied to opposite ends of a
string and whirled around on a central pivot, with the significant
difference, however, that the "string" is not a "dead" connection, but a
living stream of dynamic forces that are determined by the powers
exerted, positively from the one end and negatively from the other. The
pushing and pulling become the great natural laws of attraction and
repulsion. They are the first and cosmic form of the meaning of the
Battle of Armageddon. As the twoness in tensile opposition is the
necessary condition of the stability of anything, the law is that two
opposite poles attract
231
each other and two similar poles repel each other. This must be so, if
anything is to cohere and remain itself. If the two opposite poles
repelled each other, the atom and the universe would collapse. Rather it
could not have come into existence in the first instance. Positive and
negative poles must fly into each other's arms, embrace and multiply, if
there are to be worlds.
We have here the ground of one of the most relevant of ancient
philosophical pronouncements. Empedocles' declaration that the world was
engendered and activated throughout by the two forces of Love and Hate.
Love is seen as the attraction and Hate the repulsion. And by this
naming and characterization it is possible for the limited intellect of
man to understand dialectically why the prime essential nature of God is
denominated Love. As he is unit being of all being, the constant motive
of all his expression is the universal attraction of the two portions of
his own Self for each other.
The two nodes of his wholeness can do nothing else but "love" each
other. At the same time the two similar poles in the countless units of
his multiplied manifestation can and must likewise "hate" each other.
Love is the law of God's being--when he has thrown himself into the dual
expression--since the two elements then are constrained by the unabating
attraction toward each other. So then Love becomes the fulfilling of the
law, for no other activity of life transcends or nullifies this first
law of mutual attraction within the framework of the universe. It is
operative in every unit of life, in every fragment, in every organic
system from the atom to the super-galaxies. God can not help loving--and
hating--once he has sundered his totality into spirit and matter.
Then spirit must "love" matter, and matter spirit! Soul must love body
and body soul! Man, intellectual and spiritual, must love the world of
matter. The voice and hands of pious unintelligent religionism may fly
up in horror at the philosophical determinations that spring immediately
into view in the wake of the obvious dialectic. And well they may, for,
properly understood and held in a
232
balanced rationale, the true envisagement of the elements of the problem
enforces a view of these things that does indeed undo and reverse the
poor twisted attitudes of orthodox befuddlement. The first dawn of
welcome sanity to break upon the dark night of centuries of pitiable
error is this cock's crow of the resurrected voice of philosophy
proclaiming once again that spirit does love matter.
A happy release of the human spirit from unnatural constraint under
false mental postures will ensue for common consciousness when it can be
freely postulated in thought that the soul does love the body, and that
man, spiritual, does love the world with sufficient strength that he
comes into body to enjoy its delights and meet its tensions. The
strength of the blind pall that has afflicted the clearness of
philosophical vision can be seen by merely reflecting upon the fact that
for centuries the collective brains of the scholarly world have studied
the Biblical assertion that "God so loved the world" without once
discerning the relevance of the central statement there advanced. And
God not only loved the world, but he loved also the flesh with a force
that impelled him to throw the whole of his might, in recurrent cycles
of countless years each, into the effort to expand his own being by
plunging his consciousness into bodies of flesh and matter. For the
physical universe is the Logos made flesh. No exterior force compelled
him to become fleshed; so his act must have sprung from his own volition
or desire for such an experience. These conclusions are the ineluctable
products of the reasoning process working upon the premises given. As
man and woman love each other, so spirit and matter love each other. In
nature this "love" complies with every characterization of Plato's grand
predication of balance, moderation and harmony amid all the divine
elements in play. In man, where free will coupled with initial ignorance
comes in to disturb the balances, disturbance and confusion have crept
in. These will be corrected as intelligence awakens.
Plato in The Phaedo and The Symposium has dissertated upon this matter
of the genesis and nature of love, in a dramatization that has misled
shallower thought into a mistaken interpretation
233
of his figure. To depict the cleaving asunder of God's unit being into
the duality, he says that the soul of man splits apart into two, each
part carrying one half of the potentiality of complete being. One part
manifests in male body, the other in female, and the two separate
halves, each suffering the want of completeness in itself, longingly
seek their complementary halves in the world, to unite with them and
thus be made whole. Obviously expounding but at the same time hiding the
true esoteric meaning of his allegory, Plato clearly concealed his
deeper sense under the individual and personal representation. It is
surely not in the purview of Plato's philosophy to deny unitary
completeness to the human ego, whether in man or woman. It is always in
his system a full unit, being itself a fragment of the divine Oversoul.
It can not be fractional, a mere half-unit. It is complete and perfect
as a seed unit of divinity. Plato is dramatizing under the human
allegory the truth that the collective being of life splits apart into
the two poles and that their force of attraction for each other
ceaselessly causes each to seek the other throughout the ranges of life.
The individual soulmate idea drawn from Plato's allegory is a flat
misconception. If it was his real belief that the soul in a male body is
only one half a former complete soul, with the other half living
somewhere in a female body, what a tragedy life would present in the
nearly complete failure of the two halves to discover each other! Nature
would not be party to a scheme which in her operative order registered
close to ninety-nine percent failure. Plato's imagery is, as is the
sportive punster play on the meaning of words in The Cratylus, neither
amusing diversion nor literal seriousness, but high-pitched allegorical
and dramatic truth, playful on the surface, but grandly meaningful in
the cryptic intent.
Plato almost indubitably drew this form of portrayal from a line in the
Egyptian scripts which says that "the soul makes the journey through
Amenta in the two halves of sex." Many reports are to the effect that he
visited and studied in Egypt. It is conceded in general that Greece
derived the substance and genius of her great philoso-
234
phies from Egypt. The possibility of reading anything measurably close
to the true meaning of this passage has been killed in the first place
by the utter failure of Western scholarship to locate the Egyptian
Amenta in the proper world. The meaning has been thrust clear out of its
true world and over into another realm where it can have no pertinence,
through the stupid translation of Amenta as the region of spiritual
consciousness after death. It must be asserted as a discovery of an
age-old error and a datum of the most momentous significance in all
antique research, that Amenta is the life on earth, or earth itself, and
not any heavenly abode. Amenta is the home of the living mortal, not the
realm of the shades of the dead. And this is said in the face of the
datum of comparative religion that it was expressly denominated the land
of the dead.
The seeming contradiction is resolved into agreement when it is known,
what all studious zeal has never yet uncovered, that the ancient
philosophers and "theologians" by a trope of occult significance
designated the souls living on earth as "the dead." To them the life in
mortal body brought "death" to the soul. "Who knows," cries Socrates to
Cebes in the Gorgias, "whether to live is not to die, and to die is not
to live? For I have heard from one of the wise that we are now dead and
that the body is our sepulcher." And Paul says that "the command that
meant life proved death" to him. In the wake of Egyptian formulations of
truth Greek philosophy very distinctly regarded the soul while on earth
in fleshly body as suffering a death, from which, to be sure, it would
be reborn in its periodic resurrection "from the dead."
The Egyptian statement, therefore, concisely affirms that the soul makes
its pilgrimage through the cycle of bodily existences "in the two halves
of sex." Yet all the ancient philosophy stands on the positive assertion
that the soul is one and indivisible. It is that in a human which makes
him the individ-ual. Therefore the division must refer to the
incorporation of unitary souls in male and female bodies. Half the souls
are in male, half in female embodiment. As the Greeks say, "souls are
divided about bodies." That is, souls are
235
distributed out amongst bodies. For again they say that it is the
function of gods to "distribute divinity." Jesus, in taking a loaf and
dividing it, distributed the fragments in the Eucharist, and thereby
dramatized the same idea.
Sex appertains to the vehicle of outward embodiment, not to the soul
itself. There are not male and female souls. The soul is in large part
still detached from complete immersion in the flesh of the body. It
projects only a tentacle of itself down into body. It is the opposite
qualities of positive and negative in the mind, the emotions and the
physical senses of the corporeal appurtenance that are drawn by the law
of polarity toward each other across the boundaries of sex. Only in this
world and only then in the realm of bodily affections and proclivities
is sex manifest. In the heaven of higher consciousness where soul
resides in its native habitat there is neither marriage nor giving in
marriage, for the soul is without sex. It is androgyne, the type of the
original male-female unity in embryo, not yet male and female.
Those marvelously preserved repositories of hoary truth also tell us
that at the inception of the human race, in the initial stages of the
soul's incorporation in bodies that grew ever less tenuous and finally
fully fleshed, the race itself was hermaphroditic in its generative
mechanism, and that only after thousands of years did it effect the full
segregation of sex in two bodies of opposite polarization. A few verses
in Genesis are a shorthand brief of this long process.
The sane purport of Plato's subtle indirection is that the soul of
humanity collectively, the World-soul of Plotinus and the Oversoul of
Emerson, goes through its Amenta of experience in this world about
equally split between male and female bodies, and that each half longs
for union with the other under the law of attraction of opposite
natures. But there is another yearning of the soul which is not
specifically activated by the law of sex. It transcends sex. It is just
the longing of one unit of soul consciousness for another unit. Sex does
not affect it, engender it or minister to it. It is that higher
236
divine attraction which urges the lonely unit to seek union with the
whole group. It is the longing of the part to be united with the
integrity of the whole. The part, the fragment, is driven by the divine
impulsion to seek reunion, after each separation, with the whole. It is
cut off from this communion while in the flesh by the walls of the body.
It can communicate with kindred souls only across a gulf. If, however,
soul in male setting can find this congenial response from soul in
female body, both Platonic and romantic love can have play. That union
is doubly blessed. With common humanity it is the physical attraction of
opposite sexuality centering in body that is the main bond of
attachment. Generally this is quite quickly reduced in force, so that
there is then the possibility that the higher Platonic mental and
spiritual affinities can come more fully into expression. Sex attraction
still constitutes the strong dynamic in romantic love.
It is difficult to depict the overwhelming power of this romantic
attraction in the psychic realm of mortals. It manifests as a positive
hunger on the part of one for the other. It is a veritable
chemicalization within the blood, and surges through the nervous system
and suffuses the brain. It is a ferment and unrest, an urge that impels
toward embracing, or merging oneself with, the opposite pole. One can
know its carking and corroding virulence only if one has experienced
it--as who has not? Vicariously we can see its potencies reflected in
the behavior of animals in seasons of mating.
Total repression, thwarting and denial of fulfillment almost disrupts
the vital economy of the organism. Animals show suffering and
abnormalities in health. Humans sometimes pine away. To such a wreckage
of her powerful drive for happy expression nature attaches almost fatal
penalties. If, through unsound and unbalanced religious ideologies or
fervors, the soul too stoutly restricts the body's order of animal
normality (for the body is an animal, as Plato says), it has its own
resources and its own ways of striking back at the unwise master. Its
own suffering or derangement entailed by the
237
too rigid denial of its due expression reacts to the detriment of the
soul, whose servant it is.
There is a fell quality to the mating urge that gives it the force of a
natural and unimpeachable authority, which appears for a time to sweep
away every obstacle and override the obstructing power of every
consideration, whether of advantage or injury. It carries a virtual
cosmic sanction with it. Romeo and Juliet, Abelard and Heloise, Dante
and Beatrice, Hero and Leander, if not just honest John and plain Jane,
feel that the world must stand aside and make way for the course of this
true love. Flesh almost trembles and is consumed under the pulse and
throb of the insatiable longing. It is nature's, life's, God's imperial
order to the two individuals to unite their opposite forces and thus
achieve its burning desire for multiplication of being and expansion of
consciousness. It is its immitigable mandate thrilling out through every
tide of blood and nerve impulse, that it may have more abundant life in
the whole of its body. As Schopenhauer so elaborately and forcefully
depicted, it is the will and idea of the world enacting its program. To
insure beyond all possibility of failure that its evolutionary
development should have an unbroken continuance, it impregnated its
creatures with an enormous profusion and overplus of virile tendency. So
dynamic is the voltage of this charge that it wholly disqualifies the
rational element in most cases and drives blindly toward its goal,
unhindered by any rational deterrent. It hypnotizes or paralyzes the
reason, so that no consideration from that side may block it. It puts to
sleep every sentinel that might be standing guard to challenge its right
to advance. And it haloes its objective and emblazons its pathway to it
with the most radiant aura of exaltation, and the most exquisite
redolence of delight that life provides out of its armory of
enchantments.
Life has laid upon all its creatures this royal charge, which none may
dodge with impunity. This is the law of sex in its physical area.
But, because philosophy has been decried and contemned, man has been too
oblivious of that other manifestation of sex within the
238
boundaries of his own personality between two other lovers, namely his
soul and its body. This is beautifully portrayed, in addition to the
many fine Biblical allegories of it, by the great Greek myth of Eros and
Psyche. Eros is the higher spiritual soul, or Love, who descended to
earth to unite with the mortal body and its animal-human soul. He hovers
over her as she lies asleep, as yet unawakened to conscious recognition
and deployment of her powers. Nothing can awaken her except the impact
of those higher vibrations of a supernal consciousness from above, which
are superinduced by her experiences in the flesh. So Eros bends down and
arouses the sleeping faculties with his kiss. "Virtue" such as passed
from Jesus into the woman who touched the hem of his garment flows down
from the Oversoul when the connection with the latter is established and
slumbering potencies spring into conscious activity from the touch.
The prime office of religion and the entire rationale of culture is
intimated in this allegory. For the central radix of both religion and
culture is this power of the higher Ego in each person to awaken and
transform the dormant faculties and capabilities of the lower human
self. The sons of God were instructed to descend to earth, take wives
from the daughters of men and raise up seed from them. It is all an
allegorical representation of the union of these divine sparks, our
souls, with the animal bodies, which, since they are to be the wombs of
birth for the divinely fathered and humanly mothered Christ-child in
every human breast, are typified as "women," the daughters, not of God,
but "of men." The parenthood of the new-born sons of God is divine on
the paternal side, but natural, earthy, on the side of mother-body.
Heaven, as Plato hints, furnishes the seed of spiritual being for the
composition of man, while earth furnishes the body, the soil or womb in
which the divine seed is to be nurtured to its growth. In the Orphic
hymns the souls says: "I am a child of earth and the starry skies, but
my race is of heaven alone."
So the two component halves of man's life are male and female
239
and the evolution of man is just the long romance, the wooing, winning
and wedding of the two. The allegory, however, must not be permitted to
strangle the reality which it adumbrates. For more and more clearly it
can be seen that this is what has happened time after time in history
and is the fatal feebleness of the human mind that has ever in the end
defeated the spirit of culture. Allegory has been misconceived and
flouted again and again and is still derided and decried in the seats of
the intelligentsia of the modern world. The truth is that, while it is
the ultimate bed-rock method and road to the keenest apperceptions,
there exists but rarely in the individual and never in the mass the
downright perspicacity requisite to apprehend its true illumination. As
was the case in the Italian Renaissance, the general faculty to discern
not only the beauty but the enlightening power of meaning released to
the mind by symbols, was wanting and allegory failed once more. Yet it
was not allegory that failed; it was popular crudity and crassness of
mind that caused failure, as it always will. The world sadly needs to
recover the lost faculty or genius for the interpretation of allegory
and for the discovery of the wealth of meaning brought out by analogy.
For the magnificent truth hidden in the ancient scriptures under glyph
and symbol will not yield its purport to the world as long as the
general mind remains dumb to the intimations of allegory and symbol.
Clear down to the present the scholars have sniffed at allegory. This
gesture is due to their inability to honor it and live with it in
sufficient warmth of companionship to catch its more subtle and
recondite power of instruction. The chief requirement is that the eye of
the mind should be trained to hold the allegory not as opaque but as
diaphanous. The condemnation and death of allegory have come through the
mind's incapacity to look through it as a lens and to descry the objects
in focus in that unseen world where truth abides in its noumenal aspect.
What must be seen, then, under the allegory of the two natures in man
wooing and wedding each other is something that demands in the seeing a
pro-
240
found and subtly discerned set of values and meanings that lie
altogether in a plane of cognition far above sense. The idea of marriage
in the reference is but the initial push, the springboard that sends the
thought off on its quest of realities that can be limned only in the
highest poise and concentration of the thinking faculty. Two things, two
forces, meet, intercommune and finally wed. But how is one to think of
the soul wedding the psyche and creating a new birth through her? How,
must first be asked, can mental and spiritual entities or radiations
meet and wed?
Here is the reality to which the allegory leads the mind, and mind must
be able to follow from signpost to destination if tropes and symbols are
not to leave failure in their wake perpetually. The highest exercise of
the great faculty of imagination must come into play if the figure is to
yield enlightenment. One must imagine, the, while keeping always in view
the assumptions and principles of known natural and scientific data,
that two powers like the soul and the psyche will wed each other by
coming to an identity of vibratory energies, by striking a
synchronization of conscious states which virtually make the two forces
one instead of two. They become alike and flow together into a unity.
Their currents of influence are finally reduced to a mathematical
harmony in the wavelengths. This is the most plausible explanation open
to brain thinking on the part of man, and while doubtless still below
the plane of positive empirical knowledge as to how the subtle forces of
mind operate, it soars well above the stolid immovableness of mass
ideation that can think of no marriage save a personal and physical one.
And just this difference measures the enormous gulf that perpetually
runs its fatal chasm between the truly cultured minority and the cruder
mass majority. That gulf is the most impassable obstacle to the progress
of the race.
Spirit and matter, soul and body, each reducible in thought to ultimate
whirls of atomic energy, are thrown by Deity into the relation of
juxtaposition and vibrational impact in quite literal sense. The close
relation presupposes, in its degree and kind, as actual an
241
intercourse between the two elements as that between man and wife, if a
new birth is to be engendered. Love, now conceived as between soul
vibration and sense vibration, then presides at the very genesis and
growth of all culture. For culture is, in essence, the increasing
receptivity of the animal to the behests and influences of the higher
Ego and its becoming enamored of them. Not only does sex force play
between bodies of opposite polarity, but it flashes back and forth
between spirit or mind, masculine, on the one side, and the feminine
psyche within the same body, be it man's or woman's. The marriage spoken
of allegorically in the New Testament and other scriptures is the union
St. Paul glorifies as between soul and its own mortal body. Dr. Hinkle
is found confirming this delineation in a very direct and indeed
remarkable way. Speaking of the presence of feminine characteristics in
the sensitive nature of artists, she declares (The Recreating of the
Individual, p. 346):
"The union between these masculine and feminine entities in the psychic
organization of the artist partakes of the character of the sexual act,
although it is an unconscious process of the nature of which the artist
is unaware. But it possesses all the physical signs of the activity of
libido sexualis, and of the nature of his feelings he is quite aware."
It is significant that the psychoanalyst here avers that the
manifestations of sexual character are sufficiently in evidence to
warrant their description as sex symptoms. But this author goes even
further and denominates the interplay of forces polarized as masculine
and feminine as actually a "psychic coitus." She writes (p. 346):
"I have referred in previous chapters to the separation of the sexual
impulse from its reproductive purpose in the human race, with the
consequent overthrow of nature's limitations and its use freely in the
service of pleasure instead of purpose. As a consequence of this use, in
which reproduction really plays no part for the male, there has been
produced a transference of libido sexualis from the physical to the
psychical realm. Here the artist reveals its transformation into a
subjective phenomenon where a psychic coitus occurs, having for its
constant aim not pleasure but purpose."
242
If the psychiatrist can speak of an intercourse between male and female
components within the psychic range, at last the esoteric meaning and
the amazing truth of an ancient allegory interspersed throughout all the
revered scriptures receives the authentic voucher of its veracity. Only
after some twenty-five hundred years are we beginning to catch up with
what our wise forefathers knew.
A further corroboration of the validity of the marriage symbol on the
plane of psychic energy is given by Dr. Hinkle. She applies to the
higher Ego, the superconscious or evolving deity in man, the term used
in Platonic literature--the puer aeternus (the "eternal boy," or
everlasting youth, he who is ever young). She says (p. 349):
"In every case, however, the production of an art work is preceded by
what can be called a psychic coitus between the puer aeternus and the
soul within himself, and when, through some psychic interference or
weakness, this idea does not take place, no art child will be produced."
She goes so far as to label this orgiastic paroxysm in the sensibilities
"a symbolic incest relation" and "an autoerotic process," the capacity
for which sets the artistic or creative genius apart from more stodgy
mankind.
Thus the allegory of primitive truth is again tardily vindicated. Even
an artist must be capable of imitating the actions of the gods in their
fabled intercourse with one another and must be able to consummate a
marriage culminating in intercourse between two polarized entities
within his own scope of being, if he is to bring forth a child of his
art. Simply this on a magnified scale, and carried on through all the
later stages of the individual's evolution, is all that was connoted in
and by St. Paul's allegory of the wedding between the lower psyche, the
bride, and the higher self, the Christ, the Lamb of God slain on the
altar of matter from the beginning of the world-aeon. Naturally the man
who had not effected this marriage within himself, and therefore had no
wedding garment on, was thrown out of the symbolic ceremonial. That
wedding garment is verily the immortal shining body of "white raiment,"
243
being nothing less than the augoeides, or body of radiant solar
effulgence that clothes "the glorified and the elect,"--the garment of
the redeemed. What occurs in miniature in the daily life of all creative
genius is but the transpiring in small cycle of the great aeonial
marriage and climactic blissfulness of soul and sense in the large cycle
of human evolution.
244
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Nefertiti (was Re: BLACKNESS in Egyptian Art, Murals, etc. (REPOST))
From: "Jeffrey L. Jones"
Date: 29 Oct 1996 04:01:35 GMT
> In <54q5s3$mac@news.smart.net> mobius@smart.net (Stephen Hendricks)
writes:
> [and someone else replied too, but I missed it, saying:]
> 
> >>I don't know about that, but I can buy the olive-skin or yellow-ish 
> >>cast.  I have never seen the bust of Nefertiti in person, only color 
> >>photos, which are not necessarily reliable.  Yet I wonder why you would
> >>say that a person with an olive skin cannot be considered "white"?
> 
Here's a good test!  take those "olive skinned" Egyptians, especially from
ages ago, and toss them into a Klan rally and see if they exit with
membership cards.
Return to Top
Subject: Dig in Hearne, Texas
From: Brandon
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:04 -0800
There is an archaelogical dig in Hearne of an old P.O.W camp from WWII.
Pretty interesting, so far a fountain made out of concrete has been
unearthed and various coins of the time. E-mail bdwz@tamu.edu for
details.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology?
From: S.NEMETH@IX.NETCOM.COM (Stella Nemeth)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:49:40 GMT
Xina  wrote:
>All:
>Lately it has come to my attention that there are certain among us that
>do not appreciate our discussion of Egyptology, Religion, Mythology, or
>Linguistics on this newsgroup, feeling that these subject are not really
>related to sci.archaeology in thier subject matter.    Could someone
>please clarify for me if these things are indeed unrelated to
>sci.archaeology?  Is there an FAQ somewhere that we can refer to if
>there is a question as whether or not a particular topic is relevant to
>the group.
There is no FAQ.  Everyone is too busy fighting to develop one.  
And it takes someone who is willing to simply take over the FAQ
creation business and build it out of the posts that appear over time
for a FAQ to appear.
There ought to be a charter somewhere.  sci.archaeology is a
relatively young group.  The last time this came up someone managed to
quote from it and Egyptology was specifically INCLUDED as a topic.
The real problem is the lack of an ancient history newsgroup where all
of these subjects would be on topic.  I'm not sure what happened to
the newsgroup that was being discussed earlier this year, but I never
saw a Call For Votes on it.
>Im putting this question out there for you long time participants as
>well as the newer ones.  Any help that you could give to put this matter
>to rest would be most appreciated!
Because this is an unmoderated group there will always be a certain
amount of disagreement about what is and what is not on topic.
Although the linguistic threads bore me to tears, I haven't objected
to them, and actually have followed them to some extent in the hope
that when it is my turn to talk about a topic that bore others, that
they will do likewise.
Stella Nemeth
s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com
Return to Top
Subject: Re: "Air Shaft" Opening
From: S.NEMETH@IX.NETCOM.COM (Stella Nemeth)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:49:42 GMT
Andrew.Elms@datacraft.com.au (Elmo) wrote:
>Q: How do they plan to actually open the door at the end of the shaft?
There is a new and improved robot from what I've read.
>I recently saw the footage of the robots accent to the door and began
>to wonder how they plan to get the robot around the door. The stone
>block could be rather large.
>Also if this really is a door that could be sealing up another chamber
>or tunnel, then has this chamber or tunnel show up on any seismic or
>ultrasonic surveys ?
The door, and its tunnel are both very small.  I doubt if anything big
enough to be called a chamber could be behind it.
Stella Nemeth
s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology?
From: grifcon@mindspring.com (Katherine Griffis)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:18:59 GMT
rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote:
>Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle, Xina.  One measly private post asking you 
>to be careful about posting to multiple newsgroups, and you act like I am 
>trying to censor you personally.  Relax.  I sent similar messages to all 
>the people I percieved as principals in the thread.
The point is, Ms. Johnson,  it's not YOUR place to decide this.  It's
not mine, and it's not Xina's.  It's not *anybody's* on this NG. That
is why it's called an "open forum".
Besides, you did MORE than "privately e-mail" folks: you posted a
similar message (called "BLACKNESS -- CAREFUL!")  on the Egyptian
newsgroups about the "BLACKNESS IS..."  thread, which only God knows
how it got to sci.arch.  But it's here, it's commented upon by
Sci.arch readers, and really, it's relevant to the discussion of
Egyptology, as I pointed ou in another post on this NG.
Threads die as they will.  Ride it out, and YOU chill for awhile.  I
did, like Stella, on the linguistic threads, the Pyramids and Aliens,
et al.,  and you can on this.
Regards --
Katherine Griffis (Greenberg)
Member of the American Research Center in Egypt
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Special Studies
http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/ccer/PEOPLE2.HTML  
Return to Top
Subject: Graduate Research Project-Egypt
From: kbirch@shore.intercom.net (Kevin Birch)
Date: 29 Oct 1996 04:58:30 GMT
     Can anyone direct me to a source, online or otherwise tha contains the 
translations (as opposed to transliterations) for the names of the kings of 
Egypt? Thanks
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology?
From: Satrap Szabo
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:46:17 -0800
I'd really like to see an ancient history group created.
I'd happily move over to it, too...  It would be nice not to have to go
over so many posts.  And it would probably be nice for sci.arch types to
have a somewhat dedicated archaeology group without moderation.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: UD60
From: Genebank International Limited Napier
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 20:28:40 +1300
Can you please tell me if the symbol/numeral UD60 means anything in 
relation to satanism and if so, then what? Thanks.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Knossos
From: Satrap Szabo
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:34:55 -0800
Hello Christopher.  Am I correct in assuming that you don't even want to
invest another word in that other thread?  Is it too ambivalent for your
blood?  Fine by me.  (or perhaps my server just lost your post...
Christopher John Camfield wrote:
> . . .
> The idea of a city of the dead doesn't seem to be completely without
> merit, but I find it difficult to believe that broken and damaged
> equipment would have been part of any funerary bequest.
I think the idea --- no, better --- I KNOW the idea of Knossos having
been a necropolis is totally screwy!  And all storerooms were big
morgues right?  With the multiple entryways allowing for many visitors
to come honor their dead.  And the dolphin floor decorations?  Uuhhh...
Try and fit that into it...  Ridiculous.
> Chadwick noted that "One series of Knossos tablets is undoubtably the
> muster roll of the Panzertruppen or armoured brigade: each tablet records
> a man's name, a chariot complete with wheels, a cuirass, and a pair of
> horses" (this just from The Decipherment of Linear B, p108), apparently at
> least 80 of them.  Were they funerary gifts too?
I'm sure.
Horses, eh?  Sounds suspiciously Eastern to me.
> I can't imagine (?) that anyone argues that the Cretan sheep lists are
> census data any more, unless peculiar estimations (which doesn't seem
> credible).  They could be sacrifices, or equally animals provided as tax.
> It's an awful lot, in any case, which is kind of suspicious.  However, as in
> Homer, one can make sacrifices without them being solely to the dead,
They say something like 100,000 sheep, don't they?  And what, you think
it wasn't a census stock count?  Yeah right, they were just trying to
confuse later era historians.
> "The urge to discover secrets is deeply ingrained in human nature."
> (John Chadwick, _The Decipherment of Linear B_)
Much better quote.
-- 
zoomQuake - A nifty, concise listing of over 200 ancient history links.
            Copy the linklist page if you want! (do not publish though)
----------> http://www.iceonline.com/home/peters5/
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Subject: Re: What Topics Are Acceptable To Be Posted On sci.archaeology?
From: Xina
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:58:21 -0600
rejohnsn@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu wrote:
situations.
> Chill out.  It was just a request.  Do you go off like this every time
> someone asks you to do something you don't want to do?  God, Xina.
> That's what delete buttons are for.
I would say the same to you, Madame.  It wasnt me who had the problem
with the thread(s) in the first place. To you no discussion of biblical
archaeology, egyptology, language or religion is appropriate to
sci.archaeology unless we add pretentious bits about what we are
studying and our up and coming accolades. I obviously do not agree with
this stance.  Do you have a problem co-existing with those of us who are
a little more specialized in our topics?
I appealed to the group, who have been here for the two years that I
have been on, to clarify for me, since you obviously have an incredibly
limited view of what archaeology is and isnt, to please clarify what
*they* (not you, I already *know* your views as you mentioned through
unsolicited advice on posting proceedure and netiquette) feel is
acceptable or not.
I'm waiting to hear from *them* and at this point care little for your
insipid whining.
Xina
> 
> Cheers,
> Rebecca Lynn Johnson
> Ph.D. stud., Dept. of Anthropology, U Iowa
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