Newsgroup sci.archaeology 51398

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Elijah (elijah@wi.net) wrote:
: > Adieu, Elijah....I will not respond to you again.
: > XIna
: ecstacy, peace, relief, relaxation, exorcised at last
: emotionally overwhelmed, happy, orgasmic,
: spiritual release, prayers answered.....God I could die from this pleasure
Aye, go on, die, you'll make a lot of people happy.
: Damn....record shows she has said this before.
: Too good to be true....oh sudden depression.
It's time to take your prozac again, I think.
--
Winterwolf						x11098@bradford.ac.uk
"There's no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages 'em"
Granny Weatherwax on gods, divinities and non-gender specific entities

larryc@teleport.com (Larry Caldwell) wrote:
>In article <575lcf$k57@netnews.upenn.edu>,
>cboulis@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Chrisso  Boulis) wrote:
>> in gardens.  If they started "sunning" early, then yes, their skin would
>> have shown the age.  On the other hand, people from Mediterranean (including)
>> Egypt) climates do tolerate sunlight better than say Scandinavians.
>Not necessarily true.  Dark skin scars much more easily than white
>skin.  Plastic surgeons are very careful with olive complexions for
>this reason.  Olive skin can be very fragile.
>The dark pits on many black men's faces are "razor bumps."  Shaving can
>be unpleasant for caucasians, but it is rarely a disfiguring experience.
>-- Larry
        It can also be said that women of mediterranean blood such as
Greek, Italian and Arabic do have a tendency that whilst in their
youth are renowned for their beauty but once they approach their
middle years, they age in appearance within a period of 10 years.
                                  comments?
                                                    pete

Benjamin H. Diebold (bdiebold@pantheon.yale.edu) wrote:
: : George F. Carter & S. Heinemann, PRE-COLUMBIAN SELLOS: Another Artifact
: : Showing Possible Cultural Contact and Trans-Pacific Diffusion,
: : Anthropological Journ. of Canada, 15 (no. 3), (1977), p. 2.
: Okay, now I have read the Carter cite, which is another breezy little 2
: page job using some kind of art historical "analysis" based essentially on
: Barry Fell to suggest diffusion.
Dear Ben,
I am grateful for your efforts to investigate the seals.
: Carter and Heinemann recycle Kelley's Tlatilco seal, apparently because
: Fell offered an interpretation of it, which explains Needham's interest
in : the seal. They extend this sample of 1 out of context small find by
adding : a few more; they show 12 in illustration, but touch on only a few
and : seriously discuss none. A few of them have simple geometric designs,
: either in a single chevron pattern or straight descending lines. One :
depicts some sort of figure, and the rest are designs consisting of no :
more than 8 elements, and generally only 2 or 3. 
: Carter asserts that these are "alphabetic", but offers no discussion. He
: does not indicate whose alphabet, nor where the breaks are, nor in which
: direction the signs should be read, nor even where the top and bottom are.
: Certainly no evidence is offered to suggest that these have anything
: whatever to do with Old World alphabets, and they bear no resemblance
: whatever to anything Near Eastern in my experience. I'm not aware there
: were alphabets in Asia at 500 BC.
Well, Alexander was in Asia around that time, and other Greeks were in
Asia certainly before this. So there must have been alphabets there. 
Do you think the Hindus may have had an alphabet by then? Certainly this
is what they would claim.
: Carter seems to suggest that these seals are actually related to Ban
: Chiang seals, since these is what he provides for comparative material. I
: suppose people can make their own minds up, but I see no particular
: resemblance.
Perhaps others can see resemblances?
: Carter offers no coherent argument to link them, and no
: archaeological or even art historical data is provided. None of these
: seals appears to have any real provenience.
Clearly more research would be appropriate. The fact that we're discussing
this may stimulate some other researcher to investigate and to fill in
these blanks you've pointed out?
: Pretty weak case for diffusion. In fact, no case at all.
I agreee, in itself it is pretty weak. Perhaps this is why Needham spends
about one sentence on this in his book that is filled to the brim with
plenty of solid evidence for diffusion. 
Nevertheless, even a straw in the wind such as this can contribute some
important insights in some cases...
: The Anthropological Journal of Canada seemed to have a special interest in
: topics related to diffusion; Carter is a frequent contributor, appearing
: in almost every issue I looked at. He definitely appears to be a man with
: an axe to grind.
: There was, however, one other article in the same issue as the one Yuri
: offered which did prove interesting. Curious that Needham (or Yuri)
: neglected to mention it.
: It was written by Thomas Lee, and examined in some detail a reading of :
some Libyan "inscriptions" by Barry Fell. Lee shows pretty clearly that :
Fell's methods leave much to be desired, and are, in fact, poised over :
that line of academic fraud (if not far beyond it). Fell offers 4 readings
: of the same inscription, which vary wildly from reading to reading,
which : share no relationship to other Libyan inscriptions Fell
"translates", and : which ultimately turn out to be natural cracks in an
igneous rock. 
Needham has no connection whatsoever with Fell. I have no connection
whatsoever with Fell.
Best regards,
Yuri.
--
             #%    Yuri Kuchinsky in Toronto    %#
  --  a webpage like any other...  http://www.io.org/~yuku  --
Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow 
astronauts     ======     Vice President Dan Quayle

malloy00@io.com (MA Lloyd) wrote:
>Bart_Torbert@piics.com (Bart Torbert) writes:
>>On the other hand if someone got over here(to the Western Hemisphere) 
>>they would realize that whatever they did would not get back to any 
>>competitors.  No one else would know about your new source of goods.  So 
>>there would be a great motivation to keep things quiet.
>Let's see if I have this right. 
>Not telling anyone what you are doing, since otherwise they might notice 
>when you get back and wonder how it went, you set off into the unknown, get 
>lucky, find the Western Hemisphere, somehow find something worth having you 
>want to keep from your competition, cut a deal for it and bring it home.
There are some problems with your theory.  Let me point them out.
>Now to keep it secret you:
>(1) murder your entire crew before you make landfall so they don't tell 
>    anyone where they have been.
The crew doesn't necessarily realize that they have been somewhere
unusual.  They just know that they, personally, have never been there
before, but that isn't unusual.
>(2) dump all of the great stuff you brought back lest your competitors 
>    start wondering where it came from and start trying to find out, and 
The people who buy your "great stuff" don't have to know where it came
from.  In fact, it would be quite unusual if they had any idea at all
of where most of the things that they bought came from.
>(3) refuse to tell the investors you tricked into backing your venture 
>    (you couldn't tell them real the plan, or the secret would be out) where 
>    your ship went, why all the crew are dead, and why do don't have any cargo.
You are taking it for granted that the master of the ship had
investors.  Although Columbus needed investors for the project he had
in mind, it is quite unlikely that fishermen fishing off the Coast of
Canada, if indeed they did so before Columbus, had investors, knew
that they were off the coast of a new continent, etc.
>(4) never go back, since if you ever make a visible profit someone will 
>    wonder how and the secret will get out.
If they were fishing off the coast of Canada, they obviously went
back.  And brought their friends as well.  If it actually happened.
And I don't say it did.
>(5) starve to death, since you could never sign a crew after such a fiasco.
They could always eat the fish.
>The main reason crypto-historical and related conspiracy theories like this
>don't make any sense is simply 'three can keep a secret if two are dead'.
>You may have a motivation to keep quiet, though that is doubtful, but your 
>crew doesn't and any backers only do if they agree you alone can make more 
>money secretly for them that they can by investing in a fleet.
There is a difference between keeping a secret, where you have a good
point, and publishing the results of a voyage of exploration.
Columbus published.  Amerigo Vespuci (sp) certainly published and had
two continents named after him.
One of the big differences between 1100 and 1500 is that by 1500 there
was an active printing press all over Europe.  It made a very big
difference in how much and how fast news got around.
Stella Nemeth
s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com

Bob Keeter  wrote:
>If you want something REALLY tasty sounding, check out the fine old
>Scottish recipe for "haggis"!  Now THAT will leave your lunch on your
>keyboard!  8-)))
Ah yes, heart and lungs, fat, cereal and part of an animals gut.
Delish.  Well, it can be.  :-)
Seriously though, if that bothers you, don't ever eat another processed
meat product.  At least you know what's in a haggis.  All the same stuff 
and goodness knows what else is in that fine old American recipe for "hot 
dogs".
Take me out to the ball game, hoo haa.  (Yep, balls are in there too...)
B.
-------------------------------------------------------
Bill Burnett             bbur@dml.ac.uk
Scottish Association for Marine Science
P.O.Box 3, Oban, Argyll, Scotland