Subject: Re: Why didn't anyone know before Columbus?
From: Claudio De Diana
Date: 10 Dec 1996 09:33:02 GMT
S.NEMETH@IX.NETCOM.COM (Stella Nemeth) wrote:
>>Bart_Torbert@piics.com (Bart Torbert) writes:
[...]
>>Now to keep it secret you:
>>(1) murder your entire crew before you make landfall so they don't tell
>> anyone where they have been.
>The crew doesn't necessarily realize that they have been somewhere
>unusual. They just know that they, personally, have never been there
>before, but that isn't unusual.
This would imply that all your crew is composed by a bunch
of idiots, none of them able to direct the ship without your
help. This actually is impossible because, given that human
beings need to sleep, the chief of the expedition need at least one (better two)
people able to solve the troubles when he is sleeping.
Then he needs people with expertise to cross an ocean
and expertise means knowledge, if your crew is composed
by people who have survived three or four storms, are able
to perform maintenance on the ship and so on then he cannot simply
tell that "you know men we are sailing here and there.."
Remember that Colombo had to face great troubles because
the reaching of the ground was delayed.
>
>>(2) dump all of the great stuff you brought back lest your competitors
>> start wondering where it came from and start trying to find out, and
>The people who buy your "great stuff" don't have to know where it came
>from. In fact, it would be quite unusual if they had any idea at all
>of where most of the things that they bought came from.
He is talking not about buyers but about competitors,
if you read about the effort put in protection of trade/technical
secrets such as glass-making/ silkworms/ tissue manufacturing
you will se that this point is very hard to skip.
>
>>(3) refuse to tell the investors you tricked into backing your venture
>> (you couldn't tell them real the plan, or the secret would be out) where
>> your ship went, why all the crew are dead, and why do don't have any cargo.
>You are taking it for granted that the master of the ship had
>investors. Although Columbus needed investors for the project he had
>in mind, it is quite unlikely that fishermen fishing off the Coast of
>Canada, if indeed they did so before Columbus, had investors, knew
>that they were off the coast of a new continent, etc.
With the dawn of the industrialization a division of works
is always found, unless you think that you are coping with
a sort of Noah able to build, alone, a ship able to cross an
Ocean, you need resources to pay the people who build the ship.
Then what do you think are making fishermen off the coast of
Canada? There are no refigerator and a load of stinking dead
fish is a trouble in a storm. If they managed to find the coast
of canada and getting back in the way you described it will
for sure something that would have been observed and described.
A fisherman community in that age relies on the coming back
of his fleet, if they do not come back they just starve to death.
If they appear with a great delay and with a load different
from fish it would have been surely reported.
The only people able to get there and go back were the Vikings
with an expedition aimed not to fishing but to exploration.
>>(4) never go back, since if you ever make a visible profit someone will
>> wonder how and the secret will get out.
>If they were fishing off the coast of Canada, they obviously went
>back. And brought their friends as well. If it actually happened.
>And I don't say it did.
See above
>
>>(5) starve to death, since you could never sign a crew after such a fiasco.
>They could always eat the fish.
If you have got the motivation to reach a new world, trade
new goods and kill all of your crew then you just do not resign
to eat fish for the rest of your life. And it is not clear where
do you think this fisherman were located: Islanda? Ireland? Scotland?
This were quite poor area, in order to have a gain from your
imported goods you need to reach the richer markets.. other
people involved.. more information spread.
>
>>The main reason crypto-historical and related conspiracy theories like this
>>don't make any sense is simply 'three can keep a secret if two are dead'.
>>You may have a motivation to keep quiet, though that is doubtful, but your
>>crew doesn't and any backers only do if they agree you alone can make more
>>money secretly for them that they can by investing in a fleet.
>
>There is a difference between keeping a secret, where you have a good
>point, and publishing the results of a voyage of exploration.
>Columbus published. Amerigo Vespuci (sp) certainly published and had
>two continents named after him.
>One of the big differences between 1100 and 1500 is that by 1500 there
>was an active printing press all over Europe. It made a very big
>difference in how much and how fast news got around.
The first difference that I see is the technological
progress in shipmaking, then you have failed to show
that it is really possible to keep a secret in
exploration. Also keep in mind that the Vikings failed
to show that it was possible to have the only things
that counted in that time, i.e. spices. If they
had came back from Vineland with a load of pepper
you would have observed a bunch of people trying
to reach Canada in 1000.
Claudio De Diana
Subject: The big picture
From: "Tim Shaw"
Date: 9 Dec 96 16:57:19 GMT
Tim Shaw
Sydney.
Australia.
TIMSHAW@msn.com
Hi,
This is an open letter to my friends and family concerning information
necessary for you to know for our immediate future. Feel free to copy it
and pass it on if you choose.
It's hard to know where to start, and some of you may choose not to believe
the info that follows. It is how-ever going to dominate our existence in
the near future, and you will have to come to terms with it one way or
another. I believe it's almost impossible you will get the truth about
these matters from the powers that be, and in our rip and read corporate
media, true investigative journalism is a myth.
Just for the record, in 1970, I observed a UFO on the north coast of
Tasmania. It was directly outside the house I was in, and was there for
4-5 minutes. It was about 25 feet from where I was. They do exist, they
are not tourists! They have been observed throughout all history.
I have done an immense amount of research into the following info. As far
as I am concerned, it's the truth.
The truth will be your best ally.
Everything that has happened this century, (as opposed to the previous 2
and more thousand years) the technology, the wars, the political
expansionism of Western control, has been a lead up to what's about to
happen shortly.
Hale-Bopp
Currently there is a comet named "Hale-Bopp" out near Jupiter, headed our
way. (Not on a collision course) It makes it's closest approach by earth in
April of 97. It has a number of characteristics that distinguish it from
normal comets. It changes course, emits huge jets of material (250,000
kilometres long!) in symmetrical patterns, that are turned on and off. It
emits it's own light source. It was first noticed in 1993.
The earliest an unknown comet has ever been discovered until Hal-Bopp was 7
months before it's closest approach. Hale-Bopp was observed 44 months
before. This is actually supposed to be impossible under current comet
theory, due to the fact that comets only emit light when they get close and
react with our sun.
There is another object that appears from behind Hale-Bopp at certain
times. This object is 4 times the size of earth, and emits radio signals
that show intelligent origin. This object has been Photographed a number of
times by astronomers. NASA's huge space telescope named "Hubble", stopped
releasing photos of Hale-Bopp in October of 1995, over a year ago. All
major telescopes have not released detailed photos since May this year.
The NASA internet site has only about 5 fuzzy amateur photos since May, yet
there is another smaller comet named "Hyatake" which has hundreds of photos
available. NASA has acknowledged the strange behaviour of the Comet in
it's comet news releases. There have been thousands of people claiming to
have contact with UFOs this year. A common theme from these people is that
there will be a landing of many craft in the near future, maybe even before
Christmas, to make the knowledge of UFO craft and their occupants common
knowledge. For many decades, UFOs have been debunked in the mass media.
This campaign of debunking has been successfully orchestrated by the most
powerful intelligence agencies. Remember, we only took to the skies and
invented radar a relatively short time ago.
There are a number of important issues to consider with contact of others
in the universe.
We as a race have contemplated if we are the only ones in the galaxy. From
the research I've done, the joke seems to be that every star system has
life. NASA recently announced a 3 billion year old fossil confirming life
on mars. This was followed a week later by a similar announcement in
Britain from geologists. What a co-incidence. What they didn't tell you was
that they knew this decades ago. Indeed, I myself read all about it at the
beginning of the year, and was amazed to see it on the front page news,
eight months later. I thought it was old news. You see, it doesn't become
our accepted reality until an official agency calls a press conference and
tells the press to print it. Then the masses accept it as fact. They
recently announced "possible life on Jupiter's moon - Europa". What they
have not told you, that they have known for decades is that there is still
life on mars, Europa and Venus. In the last 18 months they have started
discovering planets orbiting other stars, over a dozen in 18 months, from
nil until that time. Astronomers are now saying that most stars, maybe
even all stars have planets. It is becoming apparent, universe is teaming
with life. Many NASA officials, including astronaughts, have broken their
silence about life not of this planet.
So, this begs the question: Are they good guys or bad guys?
I think, like on earth, there are both. Many of the well documented alien
contact cases ( that won't become fact until NASA or some official agency
calls a press conference. Don't hold your breath, it ain't gonna happen! )
have described some entities that seem to have a spiritual origin. Off
planet beings are aware of each other, and are completely aware of what the
soul/spirit is. So not only is the universe filled with life, but it
encompasses different forms of life, not just physical/biological.
Spiritual beings as well. We have on earth been cut off from the rest of
the universe for a long long time. We are about to be reconnected.
So, this begs the question: Who's going to show up first, the good guys or
the bad guys?
I think it's anyone's guess. There seems to be some power play taking place
between those that want to keep us under control, and those that would tell
us the truth about the Universe. I think we'll have to judge the visitors
by the lies they tell when they get here.
This is why it is so important to know the truth, and ponder this topic.
In the last couple of years, Hollywood, Television and other media (
including the music industry) have pushed the Alien theme hard. Hollywood
has had just this year, Independence day, The Arrival, Star Trek First
Contact, Mars Attacks ( a new one with Jack Nicholson ) and a number of
others. T.V has X Files, 3rd rock from the sun, Star Trek, Sightings and
more. Disneyland has opened an E.T. theme park, claiming openly that
contact is imminent. This is actually part of a campaign. Have you noticed
how much E.T related stuff has come onto the market? Even magazines are
carrying abduction stories without making fun of them.
McDonald Douglas aircraft Corporation are producing anti gravity craft (
flying saucers ) that can get to the moon in no time flat, they have for
many years. They have already had help from off planet intelligence. This
is documented by a number of employees, that these guys are helping with
technology. Very strange things happen when you mess with powerful fields
of gravity. It affects time itself, as well as making things disappear.
The power plants that power these craft develop immense levels of energy
with no pollution. The craft can exceed the speed of light.
There have been sightings of UFOs around a number of recent airline
crashes, including the TWA 800 crash out of New York. It is not out of the
question that these particular UFOs are of human origin, and are part of a
fear based manipulation for future events. ( along with the movie
Independence day )
I have lost count of the number of free energy devices that have been
invented this century, and subverted by whatever means necessary. Just one
avenue of free energy is the fact that there have been a number of cars
designed that actually run on water. I have checked this out, it is
absolutely true. An device called an electrolysis chamber can split water
into hydrogen and oxygen and feed the engine hydrogen fuel instead of
petrol, with absolutely no pollution! And a number of people have designed
electrolysis units that are efficient enough to run our vehicles. People
have been killed to subvert this knowledge. We have become within one human
life-time, totally dependent on oil. As such, we have fought wars for it
(notably the recent Gulf war, killing hundreds of thousands) , built up
huge military industrial complexes to protect our "natural resources", and
it in turn, has polluted our earth to the brink of extinction. We are
brainwashed through the rip and read mass media into thinking this
pollution is because we as a race are too stupid to handle technology. We
carry the burden of guilt for attempting to kill ourselves off..
BUT, you and I and the rest of the planet would vote in a second for clean
in-exhaustible energy. Are we given the opportunity? The truth is, we have
no choice but to use the disgusting technology we have ended up with, The
pollution problem is not your fault!! It is the fault of a system that has
forced this on you, it is totally out of your control, and against anything
you would vote for.
So who controls it?
There are a number of key players involved in this. Notable ones are the
name of Rothschild and Rockefella. Both family Dynasties have been going
for nearly three hundred years.
Under their control is:
The world bank,
International Monetary Fund
American Federal reserve
American Council of Foreign relations
Tri-lateral commission
United Nations
All of the American banking System
All of the the former Soviet Union banking System
Most of the banking system of the rest of the world, excluding China.
The military Industrial complex, both American and former Soviet Union
Media conglomerates ( including Reuters and AAP )
Hollywood
The major intelligence agencies. CIA/Mossad.
The Oil Industry
The list goes on and on, even Sony and Mitsubishi is owned by Rockefella.
Don't believe the myth that Bill Gates is the richest man around.
Rothschild is actually a Trillionaire!
These guys are sick of democracy, and have engineered through the United
Nations, a plan for a World government. They already are the unseen
Government. Part of their agenda is population control. As far out as
that seems, these guys funded both sides of the second world war. They
backed hitler and made a fortune from both sides. Now they've decided there
are too many of us. A number of researchers have found incontrovertible
evidence that Aids and Ebola are actually viruses produced in laboratories
of the biological warfare industry, owned by the fore-mentioned, and
disseminated on purpose!
The plan for world government is well advanced, and close to being
implemented. Suffice to say, the pattern of behaviour of these powerful
manipulators is usually to create a problem, then step in with the
solution. There's much I can say about the details of this plan, but the
bottom line is that there will be a huge economic crash. The biggest. They
can engineer it. On top of that we have this new contact with other races
of the universe. Out of the chaos that ensues, they will offer a solution
that will solve our economic/ecological/alien threat problems; (Problems
they created!) WORLD GOVERNMENT! with a new global currency. "We must
unite against a possible Alien attack", we will be told. A shell shot
bewildered desperate population will see sense in this solution, and will
accept this noble attempt to rebuild the system. That will be the last you
see of freedom.
Recently three huge trading blocks were ratified.
1. NAFTA (North American free trade agreement )
2. The European Economic Union
3. APEC. (Asia Pacific economic union )
The head of the NAFTA block is Bill Clinton. And as you saw in the news
recently, The head of the APEC trading block meeting was Bill Clinton.
Spot the mistake? Not a word of criticism from our media. Does the
Managing Director of General Motors go and conduct the board meetings for
Ford? They are competitors. What is Bill doing in APEC!? Our fearless
leaders must have negotiated hard for that one!
The United Nations already has the power to overturn Australian court
decisions. It also can sign in new agreements (in effect, laws) totally
bypassing the Australian parliament. It already has signed in hundreds.
Bill Clinton actually signed over sovereignty of the U.S. military to the
United Nations at the beginning of this year (96). A large militia
movement in America is continuing to grow. It is estimated to be around a
million strong at this time. They are armed and opposed to the "New World
Order", as the push for world government is known. They are networked
across the United States and have many experienced military personnel
amongst their ranks. These guys are armed, organised, experienced and
deadly serious! Internment camps have been built by the government right
across the U.S. The court case for the suspects in the Oklahoma bombing
tragedy, has turned up so much evidence of intelligence agents being
involved, even the victims families are getting into the act to find out
the truth behind this. There is a concerted effort to discredit the militia
to such a degree that it will be a sinch to round them up and intern them
without public outcry, when the time comes. Clinton also just signed in a
law enabling road blocks to be set up, and cars to be searched for illegal
guns. While in Australia and the U.K. guns are being taken out of the
community.
The theory of evolution can explain many changes through-out species. The
famous example of proof that is offered for Darwinism is that of
butterflies of various colours on a tree trunk. The most obvious
uncamouflaged ones are the first targets to fall prey to birds, thus
resulting in a colour change in a species, a more camouflaged species. Of
course, this applies to humans as well. If Hitler had his way, most of us
would have blonde hair and blue eyes. BUT, did you realise that there is
absolutely no evidence that a bacteria can turn into an elephant! Nor do
the fossil records show any proof that man came from apes. There are
glaring gaps in the fossil records. Scientists are still looking for these
fossils to fill in the gaps, in order to validate the man from apes theory.
Of course, this hasn't stopped the education system teaching it as fact
this century. They also teach that Christopher Columbus discovered the
world was round. Yet I stood next to a globe in Florence, Italy that was
made in 1175. I saw evidence in the Cairo museum of Egyptian Global
knowledge, thousands of years old. In fact ,nearly every ancient
civilisation shows evidence of global knowledge. Chris Columbus was
actually thick as a brick, and thousands of years behind the times. To get
western culture to believe the world was flat, while at the same time,
ships of all cultures were sailing all over the place, took a totalitarian
education process that hid the truth. This is also what has happened re
our knowledge of earth and the rest of the universe.
Consider this:
* An iron cup was recovered in an Oklahoma coal mine
* Metal tube recovered from a 65 million year old chalk pit
* A gold chain encased in a lump of Illinois coal
* A grooved metal sphere taken from a pre - Cambrian mineral deposit
* A nail embedded in sandstone in Scotland.
Items of this nature have been discovered and documented. They totally
disprove the theory that we came from apes, and that we are the first
advanced culture on this planet. Scientists are so tuned into the
education paradigm, they think that these anomalies will somehow, one day,
as if by magic, fit into the history and evolution theory we have been
taught, and continue to teach our young. You cannot put a square peg into
a round hole. Our true history has been erased.
There are many secret societies, throughout different continents, that
have been traced back thousands of years.. They have brought about changes
in governments and in the education system over that time. Freemasonry is a
prominent name that comes to mind. This is not to say that all freemasons
are part of some world control conspiracy. The freemasonry is full of good
people doing good things, who wouldn't hear of such a wild idea. The
trouble with secret societies, be it the CIA,Mafia, or freemasonry is; you
follow orders and are not told the game plan. Compartmentalisation is what
keeps the secrets. You just take a vow of allegiance and do your bit,
probably in the belief that where-ever the orders originate, there's some
wise sage looking after your interests. Incidentally, the mafia and Italian
intelligence agency have a secret society called P2. This organisation was
involved in the murder of the good Pope John Paul a few decades back.
There is a heirachy to these societies that is trans-continental. Control
eminates from a central few. We could call them the Illuminati for want of
a better name, but these guys are so devious that like "Prince" the pop
star, they have no name. Who are they? Rothschild, and Rockefella!
Understand the implications of that; the CIA and Mafia answer to the same
command! All those CIA drug scandals of recent years, including Iran
Contra scandal. Who runs the drug markets of the world? The CIA/Mafia
implications in the JFK assassination - it was both! Now you know who's
toes JFK stepped on!
And what about the space shuttle? It exists solely to keep you stupid!
So, In summing up;
* Stock up on non perishable food.
* If any Alien race shows up with Bill Clinton and tries to tell you they
just stumbled over us recently, and are here to give us free non-polluting
energy to solve our problems, they are lying. (they could have given them
to us anytime throughout history)
* You live beyond this lifetime, and these guys can only manipulate you if
you are in doubt about this. It's also why an alien race never has and
never will wipe us out. It's why they keep you in the dark and tell you
nothing. You are controlled through a fear based society, that has always
been influenced from beyond our earth. At the moment you are almost too
scared to walk down the street, due to the mass media barage of negativity,
which in turn causes a decline. This is no accident. It is the influence
of intelligences more advanced than us. As much as we'd like to think we
were the first ones in the universe to invent TV, if we believe that, it is
a supreme act of human stupidity.
Everything that has happened this century, (as opposed to the previous 2
and more thousand years) particularly the technology, has been a lead up to
what's about to happen shortly. The negative influences on us know that
their control is coming to an end, this is they're last ditch effort before
the end of game siren sounds. Due to the biological/spiritual nature of
life throughout the universe, any open contact with other races eventually
must lead to learning the truth about who you are, where you came from, and
where you are going, a nuts and bolts knowledge and conscious connection of
your powerful soul - a spiritual awakening.
It is about to happen within our lifetime!
We are going home.
The truth shall set us free.
Subject: Re: "Out of India"
From: mcv@pi.net (Miguel Carrasquer Vidal)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:44:38 GMT
whittet@shore.net (Steve Whittet) wrote:
>Iran was not well represented amongst the neolithic farming community.
>For some reason there was a dramatic decline in its population after
>c 12,000 BC. There were still people in the north west part of the
>Zagros abutting Mesopotamia. Fars and Baluchestan were not populated
>c 8,000 BC
From what I know about the history of archaeology, I'd say that one
should be careful with these kinds of arguments from absence.
But yes, if there were people in Fars and Baluchistan c. 8,000 BC, they
were probably Mesolithic hunter-gatherers still.
>> And it started from the Zagros mountains, where very early
>> agricultural sites have been found (and wild wheat and barley grew).
>Well, that was my point actually. The spread of languages comes
>with urbanism. Urbanism comes as a result of an increase in
>population in the fertile crescent (including the northwest Zagros).
>The increase in population is attributable to neolithic farming.
Your point is that language spread comes with urbanism, my point is that
it starts with neolithic farming (actually, no: languages have always
spread and contracted, but the Neolithic was one epoch when there was a
particularly large spread, that laid the foundation for the linguistic
map as it is today in the Near East/Europe/North Africa/Indian
subcontinent). I am primarily interested in the spread of the
Indo-European languages, and I'm afraid that urbanism does not solve any
of the problems associated with Indo-European: many of the areas where
IE is spoken were not reached by urbanization until the current
millennium.
>>Assuming Brahui in some way represents the language of the
>>Indus Valley people, it is impossible to derive Brahui
>>directly from Elamite, let alone Kurukh-Malto or the
>>South Dravidian languages.
>I really don't see Brahui as representing the language of
>anyone in the 3rd millenium BC. Am I missing something?
My wording was clumsy. Brahui may be a remnant, _descended_ from the
language spoken in Harappa and Mohenjo Daro, or at least descended from
related languages spoken in the vicinity of the Indus Valley.
Represented as a "language tree":
1 *Proto-Elamo-Dravidian
/ \
2 *Proto-Elamite *Proto-Dravidian
| / | \
3 Elamite *Indus Valley *East *Southern
| | | \
4 Brahui Kurukh- Telugu, Kannada,
Malto Gondi Tamil-Malayalam
Stage 4 is modern: Elamite is extinct, Brahui is spoken in Western
Pakistan, Kurukh-Malto in Bihar, Telugu, Gondi, Kannada, Tamil and
Malayalam (and some others) in Southern India.
Stage 3 is 3rd-2nd mill. BC: we have linguistic information on Elamite
only, the Indus Valley script is undeciphered. North-Eastern and
Southern Dravidian had probably already separated from the Indus Valley
group and had started to spread east and south into India (my
zebu-cattle people).
The first two stages are hypothetical, based on McAlpin's linguistic
investigations of the Elamite-Dravidian connection. I would put
Proto-Elamo-Dravidian in the Southern Zagros, 8,000 BC and earlier.
Stage 2 would be 6th/5th millennium: P-Elamite still in the Zagros and
in Fars, P-Dravidian in Eastern Iran (Kerman, Sistan-Baluchistan) and
starting to colonize the Indus Valley (4th mill.?).
==
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal ~ ~
Amsterdam _____________ ~ ~
mcv@pi.net |_____________|||
========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cig
Subject: UPDATE ON CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT (gov't vs. Bots-R-Us/re:ConradBot v1.0)
From: edconrad@prolog.net (Ed Conrad)
Date: 10 Dec 1996 14:16:13 GMT
As a courtesy to all those who have suffered irrepairable harm
by being subjected to insults resulting from a faulty product --
ConradBot v1.0 -- Mr. Curtis M. Greenwald, president and CEO of
Bots-R-Us, has released a copy of a letter he has received from the
law firm of Dewew, Cheatham and Howe, as well as a copy of his
attorney's letter of explanation and apology which has just been
delivered to President Judge Wallace R. Whiting who will hear the
case in Court Room 4 in Superior Court, Philadelphia, at 9:30 a.m.,
Wednesday, Jan. 29.
~~~~~~~~
>>Curtis M. Greenwald
>>President
>>Bots-R-Us
>>Dec. 6, 1996
>Dear Mr. Greenwald,
>This is to inform you that a product liability class action suit has
>been filed against Bots-R-Us in Superior Court. We shall show that
>your firm have caused substantial pain and suffering to the readers of
>talk.origins, sci.bio.paleontology and sci.skeptic by careless and
>negligent propagation of a faulty product. We seek redress for the
>excruciating intellectual pain caused by this flagrantly vile and
>unethical product to the extent of $1,000 for each reader of said
>newsgroup as direct damages plus punitive damages to the amount of
>$3,000 for each said reader, persons reading more than one group to be
>counted separately for each group read.
> Irving C. Codswallop,
> Attorney at Law,
> Dewew, Cheatham and Howe.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Herewith is a copy of a letter written by Atty. Wendell R. Weinstient
on behalf of Mr. Curtis R. Greenwald which has just been delivered
to President Judge Wallace R. Whiting's chamber by legal courier.
The Hon. Wallace R. Whiting
President Judge
Superior Court (District 7)
1444-1498 East Market St.
(Independence Square)
Philadelphia, Pa. 19005
Dec. 10, 1996
Dear Judge Whiting:
We would like to enter this Letter of Testimony on behalf of Curtis M.
Greenwald, president and CEO of Bots-R-Us, with regard to the class
action lawsuit which has been filed against our company for damages
caused by ``careless and negligent propagation of a faulty product."
Mr. Greenwald apologizes for the erratic behavior of ConradBot v.1
during the nine months the automated, improperly functional robotic
program has been tiptoeing through the news groups of the Internet.
He wants you to know that he had no inkling that this particular bot
has been running wild and delivering a tirade of accusations, insults
and, if I may say so, blasphemy against establishment scientists and
their prestigious institutions of higher learning.
When Mr. Greenwald became aware of the disruption that ConradBot
was causing not only in the United States but around the globe, he had
taken immediate action to rectify the problem.
As you may or may not know, members of Bots-R-Us security force
finally caught up to ConradBot at a diner off Route 61 just outside
Cleveland, Ohio, around 8:45 p.m. last Saturday evening.
Naturally, when first questioned about his true identity, ConradBot
v1.0 gave an alias, claiming he was Carl Sagan. However, when
eventually confronted with the massive amount of paperwork -- more
than 1,360 hostile postings -- he finally owned up to it.
ConradBot then reluctantly agreed to allow us to take him to a nearby
computer warehous where we performed remedial surgery. Although it
had taken some time and considerable effort, we really, really think
we have solved the problem once and for all.
We are pleased to report that, once worn-out bits were replaced and
ultra-modern connective resusitators installed during reprogramming,
ConradBot was given a psychological examination. To our satisfaction,
he is not longer accusing anthropologists and paleontologists
scientists with deceipt, dishonesty, corruption and collusion in the
pursuit of honest answers to legitimate questions about man's origin
and ancestry.
In fact, he even told us he now believes in Santa Claus (which, in his
former state, he approximated as being on about the same wave length
as a belief in the evolutionary theory of the origin of man).
Judge Whiting, we here at Bots-R-Us never intended to cause any
irrepairable brain disfunction to the many, many thousands of regular
readers of talk.origins, sci.bio.paleontology and other news groups.
It was a human error, beyond our control.
For our transgression in allowing a computer brain-damaged bot to run
loose on the Internet for nine months, we can only say we're sorry. It
is our fervent desire that you exercise your influence and have the
matter settling out of court, before it actually reaches your bench.
It really is not that we're afraid of being found guilty and paying a
very stiff fine -- or even reimbursing each reader of the news groups
$1,000 for each reading of an insulting posting by ConradBot.
Our major concern is that, during interrogation, Conradbot admitted
with a strange, evil smile that he hadn't just been sitting at the
keyboard these past nine months. He revealed he has been involved
in a few -- let's see, how can I put it gracefully? -- ``romantic
interludes" over this time span.
ConradBot told us he had been masquerading as a traveling lingerie
salesman all the way from Shenandoah, Pa., to Masillon, Ohio, and has
had quite a number of one-night stands.
For that reason, we fear the very worse because we are all very much
aware of the major headaches that just one wayward ConradBot has given
us.
Judge Whiting, our primary concern right now is what we're going
to do when, in a few short years, all of those little Baby Bots are
old enough to reach the keyboard.
Cordially,
Wendell R. Weinstien
Weinstien, Weinstien, Weinstien and Beirmugg
cc: Atty. Irving C. Codswallop
Henry Butterworth Barwood
Carlington D. Sagan
Executor, The Estate of Charles Darwin
l
Subject: Re: Pyramid "Ventilation" Shaft
From: armata@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Date: 10 Dec 96 09:56:23 EDT
> ...As I have already posted, there is a reasonable alignment
> of the angles of the three pyramids with the angles of the belt stars at
> meridian transit in 10,500 BC, but the alignment is far from perfect
> based on currently available data.
The argument as I understand it is that in 10,500 BC, when Orion was
at the bottom of its lowest point in the precessional cycle, it was
standing upright, and the angle the belt stars made at its (actually
Al Nitak's) meridian transit is "reasonably" but "far from perfectly"
mirrored by the pyramids' angle to the terrestrial meridian.
But if the alignment is only reasonable and far from perfect, then
this argument has no merit at all.
Orion does not turn cartwheels in the southern sky during the precession
cycle. It runs from standing upright, to tilting a bit to the right,
returning to upright, to tilting a bit to the left, and returning to
upright again. Since this cycle takes some 26,500 years to run through,
each of the 4 positions (upright, tilted right, upright, tilted left)
lasts about 6,600 years (allowing for "reasonable" and "far from perfect"
approximations before and after the extreme of the position). And since
the upright phase occurs twice, it is in effect for over 13,000 years,
or half the entire cycle!
Even if the match of the pyramid/stars angle were not just "reasonable"
but quite exact (whatever that might mean!), the time span during which
the belt stars would be at that angle would still be immense -- the
angle changes only in tiny amounts over many centuries. To talk of a
precise match at 10,500 BC, and not 11,500 BC or 11,000 BC or 9,500 BC,
or 9,000 BC, is unsupportable. An approximate match (if it even exists)
that applied to 10,500 BC would also be a match for a couple thousand years
before and after that date (not to mention its reappearance 13,000 years
before then, and 13,000 years before then, etc.)
Joe
armata@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Re: marianna- Hurrian or IE?
From: Saida
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:01:24 -0600
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
>
> Saida wrote:
>
> >> ... Now, in Hebrew, there is a word "rosh" that means both the
> >> >head on your shoulders and the "leader" of something or even the top, as > > >in "Rosh Hashana" the "top" or start of the year, but
"sar", in Hebrew > > >has nothing to do with this, nor does "sr" in
Egyptian.
> >>
> >> The semantic shift you mention is a fairly common one; even
> >> English "head" has it.
>
> >Well, "sar" or "sr" does not have this semantic shift that I am aware
> >of. It is totally unrelated to any body part. Once again it means:
> >prince, chief, nobleman, elder, chief inspector. In other words, it
> >seems to be an all-purpose term for an authority figure.
>
> "Chief" is of course another very good example of this semantic shift,
> being derived, by way of French, from Latin caput "head". (caput > capu > > cabo > ca"vo > kev > kyef > tyef > tchef > chef).
>
> As to Greek "kara", it means (in Classical Greek):
>
> 1. head
> 2. face
> 3. mountain top (in Homer)
> 4. fortress (in Homer)
> 5. limit
> 6. person
>
> In Modern Greek, the meaning is "head, skull". The Spanish word "cara" > (face) was borrowed from Greek in Roman times.
The Egyptian "face" is "hr", although this also means "before" as in
"the presence of" and a lot of different prepositions! "Hr neb" means
"everybody, mankind" and there is much more to this "hr" business. It is
one of the most "all purpose" of Egyptian terms. "Khent" is another face
word, also meaning "in front of", which applies to leadership this time,
as well.
The Egyptian "head" words are: "risha", undoubtedly taken from the
Hebrew, along with its "chief" meaning; "har" (this is in my dictionary,
but, from its determinative being a lock of hair, it probably refers to
the hair of the head); "tep", the most common head word, which also
means the top of anything, including leadership; "tchatcha", which has
survived into the Coptic "kauk" for head and the Coptic "zikon" for
"upon".
BTW, speaking of chariots, the "spoke" of the wheel is called "sbat" or
"the star-shaped part", possibly even where "spoke" is dervied. There
is the "arq" of a chariot (probably the reins or harness), the "set
shepsit" (which I guess to be the passenger "seat"); the "tebit" (which
I guess to be the base of the car); "tchebu", the wicker-work on the
bottom or sides; "a'a", "a'aunt" the pole. A Hittite chariot is called
a "tuprat". Other chariot names are "a'agarti" from Hebrew; "autcharu",
which is either the whole vehicle or some part(s) of it; "urrit"; "bari"
(probably a chariot made entirely of wicker); "m'rkabtit" (Semitic);
"m'karbuti"; "m'kari-tur" (painted chariot). The Egyptian charioteer is
the "katan" or the "auratchar".
I have not written all this for no reason. Look at these words closely
and you will see the elements "kab", "kar", "char". The "kab" part
undoubtedly has to do with a costly wood obtained from "Keben" or
Byblos. A boat built from this material was called a "kebenit". This
is probably the tail-end of the etymology of "cabin" and "cabinet". Oh,
yes, there is another mysterious part of the Egyptian chariot called the
"hau". It comes from "to fly". If it were an automobile we were
talking about, it might be the "fly-wheel" ;-) Since I don't find a
term for "wheel" in my dictionary, perhaps that is what "hau" means.
Subject: Re: Smoking guns? Yes.
From: yuku@io.org (Yuri Kuchinsky)
Date: 10 Dec 1996 15:33:02 GMT
Here we go. Another one in a long series of vindictive, deceitful, and
malicious posts directed at me as of recently by disgruntled and desperate
opponents who obviously have nothing better to offer than ad hominem
attacks. Welcome to the club, Greg. It's getting mighty crowded there,
isn't it?
gkeyes6988@aol.com wrote:
: Yuri wrote:
: >Since I'm aware of Peter's well-demonstrated propensity to obfuscate and
: >to cast malicious accusations, I will offer here for those who haven't
: >been following this exchange a brief statement on why I did not add that
: >other quotation to the quote I gave about the "smoking guns". As if I
: >really need to defend myself against such scurrilous nonsense...
: Well, clearly you do. And there is no one here more adept at obfuscation
: than you.
He doesn't wait very long. Starts his post with an ad hominem and
continues for ever in the same vein.
[snip]
: This thread started as a discussion of reputed Shang script amongst the
: Olmec. This is a case you could not make,
A deliberate lie. I've never tried to make such a case. There WAS
discussion of this subject in some major media outlets, and I only helped
to inform the public about it. If I could take Greg seriously, I would
have gone to DejaNews and fetched the posts where I repeatedly expressed
caution about these theories, and said more time is needed to evaluate
them.
: and when faced with your lack
: of evidence and the overwhelming legitimate objections to it, you shifted.
: I (amongst others) pointed out that since you can't make a single case
: for the diffusion of one group
: (like the Shang) you offer other "evidences" of Asian contact (from
: Polynesians, Mesoptamis via the Hindu via Indonesia via (Polynesians
: carrying cylinder seals?). You offer resemblences from any and all old
: world groups to foster the idea that diffusion happened without ever
: allowing yourself to be pinned down to demonstrating a single verifiable
: example of contact.
He's on to "smoking guns" again. The best evidence for contact presently
is that from botany. Specialist (near) consensus that the sweet potato was
brought by humans out westward across the Pacific pre-Columbus doesn't
count as evidence, I suppose, Greg? Talking about closed minds... The
evidence that many culture traits (bark-cloth manufacture complex,
blow-pipe complex, ocean craft similarities, etc., etc.) are the same, or
nearly the same don't count? As if there was ANY evidence that would
persuade the likes of you...
[snip]
: However, you offered these -- and still defend them -- as bonafide,
: documented, no questions-asked 'smoking guns', neglecting to point out
: that your source then immediatly disqualifies them as such.
Another obvious lie. My source does no such thing. It may be something
about your reading skills? Or the lack of general familiarity with the
context and the historical evidence in question? I'm trying to be
charitable here, otherwise I would have to conclude you're just lying,
plain and simple?
What my source really does is cast doubt on this whole concept of a
"smoking gun". He does not disqualify them from consideration. He points
out, rightly, that doubt exists in some of these cases. But why would he
have listed them if he didn't believe they are valid suggestions? Is he so
dumb that he wants to discredit himself? Or is someone else being dumb
here?
: Get it? You
: claimed that your source was offering what you were asked for, and it was
: not.
[snip]
: That's pretty simple. The author here admits that the items in question
: cannot be confidently dated or the sites shown to be genuine.
Just a little distortion here from Greg. The actual reality is that IN THE
PREVAILING IDEOLOGICAL CLIMATE these and other important artifacts HAVE
BEEN IGNORED by researchers. Nobody EVEN BOTHERED to look up and to date
these finds carefully.
Many more such examples can be cited. For example, I've been reding a very
interesting article by George Carter in MAN ACROSS THE SEA, about the
domestication of chickens world-wide. The big debate at that time, in the
60s, was whether or not the chickens existed in prehispanic America.
Carter marshals VERY IMPRESSIVE EVIDENCE that the chicken was indeed known
and WIDELY SPREAD pre-Columbus. IF this is true -- THIS WILL BE THE
BIGGEST SMOKING GUN EVER! They even found some chicken bones in
pre-Columbian context (p. 180). I would really like to know if carbon
tests were done on these finds, or if other evidence about pre-Columbus
chickens was found since. There's A VERY GOOD CHANCE that if this
hypothesis is true it will be confirmed unequivocally by archaeological
and DNA evidence in the future, if it hasn't been confirmed already.
By the way, is anyone of my "friends" claiming that chickens just flew
across the ocean? That would be a good one for Monte Python!
So where is the research to prove or to disprove this EASILY FALSIFIABLE
hypothesis? I don't know where it is, if it exists.
Do we need any better example of general inertia, shiftlesness, and
dogmatism of the academic establishment? I'm not surprised when more
suspicious minds than mine may see this as amounting to a suppression of
evidence...
: Okay, exit
: the Smoking Gun you cited the original passage to claim.
:
[snip]
: >So why did I not include it? Simple. S. Jett, the author of this article,
: >an objective scholar that he is,
:
: I ask you again, how is it you are able to evaluate which scholars are
: objective and worth trusting from those who aren't?
So here we go again. This is an example of obfuscation, nitpicks, and
shifting the argument to the periferals. Arguing about words and their
meanings as opposed to looking at the hard evidence.
Which scholars are objective? Indeed! You see, Greg and the likes of him
will never tire of reminding one and all about pseudo-scholarship, and how
it is important to distinguish between the New Age wishful thinking and
the hard peer-reviewed scholarly literature. They already dumped loads on
Barry Fell in this discussion precisely for this reason.
So what happens when I actually GIVE them SCHOLARLY LITERATURE? Would they
be happy? Oh, noooo... Now they are unhappy because I USE THE WORD
SCHOLARLY!!!
Does the ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL _hypocrisy_ of Greg and Peter, and of their
ilk know ANY BOUNDS??? If so, I'm not aware of such...
Enough of you, Greg. You've done your soldierly duty to defend the
indefensible. Your lies and ad hominems are only an indication of the
pitiful and shaky state of the house of cards you're inhabiting...
Next, please. Oh, I know there's more of them...
Sincerely,
Yuri.
=O= Yuri Kuchinsky in Toronto =O=
--- a webpage like any other... http://www.io.org/~yuku ---
It matters [whether Monte Alban ceramics reflect Chinese art forms]
because questions of human inventiveness and the nature of human
freedom are involved, and these are pivotal for the understanding of
humans everywhere. D. Frazer, THEORETICAL ISSUES IN THE TRANS-
PACIFIC CONTROVERSY, Social Research, 32 (1965) p. 453, as quoted by
J. Needham.
Subject: Re: the cause of longevity getting short (969 down to 70)
From: Shez
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:44:44 +0000
In article ,
vplee@imap1.asu.edu writes
>
>
>On Sun, 8 Dec 1996, Shez wrote:
>
>> Now correct me if I am wrong, ( I am sure you will) but I also thought
>> obviously eroniously that a human gene pool needs to be several hundred
>> humans strong , otherwise the intermating with close relatives would
>> cause seriouse genetic problems in the off spring. To the point where
>> the human race would cease to exist.
>
>
>
>This would occur only if there were recessive characteristics in their
>gene pool that would lead to such problems (like Down's Syndrome). Since
>A&E; were created in His own image, it's reasonable to suppose that they
>possessed no such negative characteristics. If such traits exist today,
>they must have resulted from mutations over the course of millenia.
>
>It doesn't necessarily follow that inter-mating would lead to such
>problems. On the contrary, if two individuals are devoid of rogue genes,
>inter-mating would actually be a good thing. The Ptolemies in Egypt, of
>which Caesar's and Antony's Cleopatra was the most famous, inbred for
>centuries; if any genetic disasters ever struck their line, I'm not aware
>of it.
>
>
>
Well if you can actually cite, Cleopatra and her brother, as normal, I
am most suprised, but there you are, different strokes for different
folks,
Looking at the British, and Russian royal familys give you a much better
idea of what massive interbreeding can do. maddness, and Hemophilia, are
among the few small problems they had,
The Hawaian Royal family where the Queen and her royal brother mated is
also noted for its genetic problems.
If Adam and Eve were created perfect, then that Genetic Strain should
have stayed strong and true, Perhaps incest caused the problem. but then
if it did then they were not perfect were they.
Pygmy races have been around for Millenia . A slight blip in the plan no
doubt.
You can not preach on one hand that incest is evil, and then turn round
and tell met that God approved of it with adam and Eve. either your God
approves of incest, or he douse not.
Again I ask the question, which I noted you did not answer. Why 2, why
not 200 or 2000. for a God that would be a minor problem.
But of course if we evolved from apes, then that would explain many of
the genetic dsyfunctions we see today, the apes of course would not have
been Genetically perfect either.
--
Shez shez@oldcity.demon.co.uk
The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------------------------------------------
