Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: HW Raedt
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:04:15 -0700
> Does anyone know how various computer software reacts to "," vs "."?
> Does Microsoft (for example) actually make another version of Excel
> that has the two switched for non-USA use??
> Since I'm so isolated here in the USA, can we have some international input
> on this?
>
> -- Doug Milliken
>
> PS. When we wrote our big book on "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" we
> decided from the beginning that we were writing about developments
> that primarily happened in the USA, so we used US customary units --
> over the protests of our publisher, SAE.
>
> Our editor finally gave in when I asked her what the angle between two
> sides of her desk were. She said 90 degrees, but the ISO (stupid IMHO)
> answer is Pi/2. How can some committee change one of the most common
> things that anyone measures into an irrational number. It's just
> irrational!
1) German Excel uses the "," as decimal point. Using a spreadsheet
designed in Great Brittain requires changing it: Visual Basic uses "."
which is quite a hardship, because there is a "," on the keyboard for
the decimal point, "," in strings has to be converted into "." to be
properly processed by the "Val" - function.
2) Units: Metric Units make calculation much more easier (F=m*a). It
must be a question of stubbornness and inexplicable conservatism to
stick to kilopond, pounds, inches...
HW Raedt
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: kirchweg@sztms.tu-graz.ac.at (Gerhild Kirchweger)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 11:32:55 GMT
Doug Milliken (bd427@freenet.buffalo.edu) wrote:
:
: Does anyone know how various computer software reacts to "," vs "."?
: Does Microsoft (for example) actually make another version of Excel
: that has the two switched for non-USA use??
: Since I'm so isolated here in the USA, can we have some international input
: on this?
Arrrrgh! You're hitting a very nasty spot there. Yes, in Excel there is a
way of switching "." to ",", but it's really dangerous.
Actually, the switch is in Windows itself, where you set your country's
specifications, so it's used all over Windows, but especially in Excel it's
important.
But! If you ever try to open or import any data that's the other way round
("." instead of ",") you won't recognize your data anymore. Don't even try
to restore, it's useless. Lot's of them will be Feb 2, 1934 or such.
As I have to import a lot of data-output from non-Windows programs, I set my
decimal sign to "." long ago. I'm biligual ;-)
One of my favourite features of my HP-calculator is the possibility to
change the decimal sign, too, as there it's really important (for Numbers
like 987.654,321 as it increases readability. and there's almost no danger
:-)
--
oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo Gerhild Kirchweger oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo_oo
|____ Department of Internal Combustion Engines and Thermodynamics ____|
|__ Graz University of Technology/ Austria ___Tel. ++43 316 873 7212___|
oo_oo_oo_o http://fvkma.tu-graz.ac.at/~gerhild/gerhild.html _oo_oo_oo_oo
Subject: Paints and Coating Systems
From: Greg Praino
Date: 24 Sep 1996 12:41:01 GMT
I'm looking for alternative coating systems that can be used on mobile equipment (tanker
trucks, trailers, carts, etc...). The system we currently use consists of an inorganic zinc
primer, epoxy midcoat and polyurethane topcoat. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I'd
appreciate whatever you can come up with. The main concerns are the life of the coating and
ease of maintenance.
Thanks in advance for any help. You can post your responses here or e-mail them to me at
gregory.praino-1@ksc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: jmsche01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (James M. Scherer)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 12:50:42 GMT
HW Raedt (raedt@weh.rwth-aachen.de) wrote:
: >
: > Our editor finally gave in when I asked her what the angle between two
: > sides of her desk were. She said 90 degrees, but the ISO (stupid IMHO)
: > answer is Pi/2. How can some committee change one of the most common
: > things that anyone measures into an irrational number. It's just
: > irrational!
:
: 1) German Excel uses the "," as decimal point. Using a spreadsheet
: designed in Great Britain requires changing it: Visual Basic uses "."
: which is quite a hardship, because there is a "," on the keyboard for
: the decimal point, "," in strings has to be converted into "." to be
: properly processed by the "Val" - function.
:
: 2) Units: Metric Units make calculation much more easier (F=m*a). It
: must be a question of stubbornness and inexplicable conservatism to
: stick to kilopond, pounds, inches...
:
Much of the software I have seen allows you to select the international
convention of date and number format you prefer.
The perpetual units lament! Not only does the physics actually work with
standard metric units without fudging, but so does the math. You can
perform calculus in the dimensionless angle without the degrees-to-
radians fudging.
We in the US have been screwed by our legacy of an avalanche of truly
off-the-wall units that have no relation to standard base units. My
work is harder because I wasn't taught a system of units that make
sense from the start.
Mitch
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: "M.E. Moore" <73234.1355@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:59:33 -0600
Doug Milliken wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Mike wrote:
>
Most of the world is comfortable using a decimal point. What
> > number is this: 100,001 -- One hundred thousand and one OR one hundred
> > and 1 thousandth ?
>
> Does anyone know how various computer software reacts to "," vs "."?
> Does Microsoft (for example) actually make another version of Excel
> that has the two switched for non-USA use??
>
I recently bought an HP-200LX palmtop for work. It came to me set up in
comma format in both the calculator and Lotus 123 spreadsheet. It was a
bear to finally get it switched over to a decimal point format.
By the way, what IS 100,001? No one's answered it yet.
--
M.E. Moore
Los Alamos, NM
Subject: SciQuest - A New Productivity Tool
From: "Joe Bumgarner, Jr."
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:26:03 -0400
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Subject: Bulk Solids Courses
From: Jenike & Johanson
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:54:38 -0400
Jenike & Johanson, the leading firm in bulk solids
handling technology, is offering the following one
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The primary objective of each course is to provide
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Also, please visit our new Homepage which describes
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Thank you!
Subject: Piping design
From: "Luis E. Díez"
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:47:50 +0200
Has anyone found a successful group of interactive programs for power
plants (even nuclear) and PCI piping design in PC's, with piping design
under AUTOCAD (including supports with beams and hangers), direct export
to a pipe stress analysis program, that calculates stress in piping and
beam based supports, and direct export of data to a fluid flow analysis
program, steady and transient conditions, including two-phase flow, with
network balance and forces calculation for data return to the pipe
stress program? Everything working under WIN would be a dream.
If this dream is not possible, I would appreciate any experience or
recommendation.
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: Bryan Hart
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:09:40 -0500
Paul Skoczylas wrote:
>
> Mike wrote:
>
> > The USA companies should revolt against this kind of non-sense; what are
> > we whimps? Most of the world is comfortable using a decimal point.
>
> Only if most of the world is the U.S. (Of course, to an American, I
> suppose it is.) I believe that outside North America, the comma is
> prevalent. (As reflected in the ISO standards--doesn't the I stand for
> international?) Of course, outside the U.S. the world uses a decent
> measurement system too, but the Americans won't jump on that bandwagon,
> and lose billions of dollars in trade each year.
>
> Here in Canada we engineers are forced to learn and use two systems.
> Metric is better (IMHO) for most calculations. (There are only a few
> which are just as easy in both systems.) For anyone who needs to buy
> anything from the states, we need the U.S. system. (Many engineers I
> know will do all the calculations in metric and convert to U.S.)
Most US universities teach both as well in order to deal with
international as well as domestic projects. Basically (at least at ISU)
they stress the metric (ISO) as the "correct" way, but allow either
method.
Bryan
--
---------------------------------------------------------
| Bryan Hart | Early to rise, |
| Project Coordinator | early to bed, |
| Engineering Animation Inc. | makes a man healthy, |
| bryan@eai.com | but socially dead. |
| | -?? |
| When replying to bryan@eai.com, |
| be sure to remove the machine name! |
---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Which CIVIL engineers are more in demand?
From: wanixon@icaen.uiowa.edu ()
Date: 24 Sep 1996 16:09:17 GMT
In article <3247c029.2957491@server.cntfl.com>, kafka@noblestar.net (MIMOSA) writes:
|> On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:01:19 +0100, Brett Wing
|> wrote:
|>
|> I'm a civil engineering student trying to decide on electives to take.
|> Any suggestions on what might be most useful later on??
You might consider taking at least one course in management techniques,
especially if they are geared towards management of technology. In your career,
you will encounter managers and bean counters who are technophobic, and view you
rather suspiciously as a result. If you can at least speak their lingo, you will
have a better chance to sway them with your arguments.
Wilf Nixon
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wilfrid A. Nixon | e-mail: wanixon@icaen.uiowa.edu
Dept. of Civil and Env. Engineering | phone: (319) 335-5166 or -5225
University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 | fax: (319) 335-5238
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: Mike
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:58:37 -0700
Paul Skoczylas wrote:
> Only if most of the world is the U.S.
So, you are saying that most of the world LIKES using a comma? Its a
DECIMAL numbering system
.....these are decimals
,,,,,these are not.
Like I asked, what is this number? 100,001
If commas are used, what do decimals mean?
If the ISO is worth its salt it will change to the decimal - what it
should be. Not a comma. The US is changing to metric, (slowly), the
least the ISO can do is adopt a few of the things we do that make sense.
ANOTHER stupid ISO 'standard' is the color for low voltage DC wiring
polarity. US and Japan use RED=positive, BLACK=common. (Just look in
your car) Prior to 'standardization' many more electronics products were
made with red and black than any other, how come the ISO didn't pick
these?????? (Which makes more sense anyway to have red as 'hot'...like
'red=blood=danger')
WHO ever came up with blue and brown? This combination is stupid.
I wonder if the ISO will ever adopt a standardized language?
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: jeffe@blue.seas.upenn.edu (george)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 19:15:38 GMT
:Arrrrgh! You're hitting a very nasty spot there. Yes, in Excel there is a
:way of switching "." to ",", but it's really dangerous.
:
:Actually, the switch is in Windows itself, where you set your country's
:specifications, so it's used all over Windows, but especially in Excel it's
:important.
On macs as well you can make the change system wide. And stand
back to see what breaks :-)
:One of my favourite features of my HP-calculator is the possibility to
:change the decimal sign, too, as there it's really important (for Numbers
:like 987.654,321 as it increases readability. and there's almost no danger
Actually I believe comma-as-decimal sign is the power-on defualt
(ie if you remove the batteries).
I dont think its more readable, its just what you are used to.
--
george
george@mech.seas.upenn.edu
Subject: Re: Comma versus decimal point
From: stanzel@mbox.ikh.uni-hannover.de (Michael Stanzel)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:02:36 GMT
Doug Milliken wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Mike wrote:
[...]
> Does anyone know how various computer software reacts to "," vs "."?
> Does Microsoft (for example) actually make another version of Excel
> that has the two switched for non-USA use??
> Since I'm so isolated here in the USA, can we have some international input
> on this?
I'm using a German version of Excel, so there is some "international
input" I can give. Our usual decimal character is a comma while the
point is used to indicate (or, sepatare) thousands. German Excel
follows this rule.
It's not only a matter of application, though. Windows lets you change
this setting (I think it's the contol panel "International" icon) , so
you can have it either way, given that your respective application
actually uses the setting.
HTH,
Michael
______________________________________________________________________
Michael Stanzel
Institut fuer Kraftfahrwesen / Institute of Automotive Engineering
Universitaet Hannover / University of Hanover, Germany
Tel: +49-511-762-3123
Fax: +49-511-762-3128
Subject: Re: Temperature and Humidity in a Museum ?????
From: Dan Bollinger
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:29:41 -0700
Martin Roy wrote:
>
> Anybody knows the temperature and humidity range for conservation of
> painting in a museum.
> Not to cold 'cause people are looking at the painting :-o.
>
> thank, Martin.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Excuse my writing, english is not my Mother tongue.
> Feel free to correct me. It will help the world.
> Martin Roy, ing.
> 1302 ch. Oka
> Deux-Montagnes, (quebec)
> Canada, J7R-1M4
> (514)623-0340
> mroying@infobahnos.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
Martin;
Other factors are your insurance underwriter's specifications and what
type of media. Contact a curator in the art museum in Toronto.
Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Your Most Often Used References
From: "Chris Rogers"
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:50:38 GMT
Glenn S. Lyford wrote in article
...
> An impromptu survey for the masses:
>
> What are your favorite references? The ones you can't seem to do without
> for just about any project? Machinists' Handbooks, Materials Properties,
> ASME boiler codes, Dictionaries, what have you. Maybe the top 5 or so?
>
> If you can, give the publisher and date, and if it should still be in
> print. If you feel it is especially relevent to a particular type of
> work, indicate that as well, though it need not be.
>
> I am curious to see which are nearly universal, and which vary by a wide
> range...
> Thanks,
> --Glenn
>
To be universal your references would have to be used in all countries of
the World, therefore, I would expect that your list should top out with
basic texts rather than ASME or ASCE manuals. Here in the UK we use BS
5500 for boiler codes, except for Nuclear applications, where we use ASME,
this due to regulation not choice.
My favoured manuals are;
Steel Designers Manual,
The Steel Construction Institute,
Ascot,
UK
ISBN 0-632-02488-7
Reinforced Concrete Designers Manual
Chas E Reynolds,
????
ISBN ????
Structural Analysis
Coats, Coute & Kong
Formulas For Natural Frequency and Mode Shape
Robert D Blevins PhD
Van Nostrand Reinhold ------------- Good candidate for "Universal"
--
==+==+==+==+==+==+=[ http:\\www.cprsys1.demon.co.uk ]+==+==+==+==+==+==+==
Chris Rogers - Technical Director
CR Engineering Analysis & Computing Engineering Solution Providers
cr-ea@cprsys1.demon.co.uk Commited To Excellence
Subject: Re: FEA: Modelling Bolt Holes
From: osman@stargate.cinternet.net (osman buyukisik)
Date: 20 Sep 1996 21:47:20 GMT
Reposting article removed by rogue canceller.
In article , Christopher Wright wrote:
>In article <3235E749.1242@julian.uwo.ca>, Paul Kurowski
> wrote:
>
>> With mesh refinemnt, your displacements
>>will converge to infinity.
>
>I'll quibble with this. The stress under a point load will increase
>without limit as the mesh is refined, but the displacements won't. And I
>think the St. Venant effect guarantees a converged stress solution within
>a couple of element widths of the point load, anyway.
>
BOTH stress and deflection increase without limit (elastic analysis).
Stress is prop to 1/r, deflection to log(r). You may not notice the
deflection increase as it will be very slow. The following numbers are from an
experiment 5x2x1 block supported on three sides, force at the middle top. 30e6,.3
are material props. Force=100 lbf.
Element size deflection stress
1 0.56e-5 115
0.5 0.67e-5 200
0.25 0.83e-5 399
0.125 0.97e-5 816
0.0625 1.12e-5 1691
If you plot these (using gnuplot?), you'll see the above relationship holds.
It is hard to say by just looking at deflections that they are growing without bound.
But THEY ARE!
Osman
Subject: Re: Algor Houdini experiences???
From: Mike Porter
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:04:49 -0500
John P. Becker wrote:
>
> Can somebody enlighten me regrading their experience using the Algor
> Houdini mesh generator?
>
> Thanks.
I've got a chapter in my book devoted to the Houdini suite of programs. In
short:
Algor probably has as good a meshing suite as any. You can create good hex
meshs with it _in some cases._ Tets are even easier. The interface with some
cad packages (Pro-E for example) is quite good. Like all auto-mesh generators,
however, there are holes. Even though I have it, and have paid for it, I don't
use it very much in production.
If you are really insistant on using an automesh generator, it is probably one
of the best.
--
Mike Porter Stress and Vibration Consulting Services
Dynamic Analysis FEA Consulting and Training
(913) 341-3269