Newsgroup sci.engr.mech 27722

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dano@cyberramp.net wrote:
: In <54evop$7s8@news.sas.ab.ca>, jatzeck@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
: >John S. Novak, III (Jsn@cris.com) wrote:
: >
: >: > The legislation also 
: >: >provides a uniform method of evaluating the experience. 
: >: I generally snort at the idea of uniform methods of evaluating
: >: engineering experience, knowledge, or ability.
: >Why?
: Maybe it's because some people specialize somewhat.
But that's why the provincial associations have examining committees--to 
check and verify one's academic qualifications and experience.  Those 
with a university degree have little problem passing the former 
requirement unless they are from a region where it's not clear exactly 
what's been taught.
In addition to that, each applicant has to write an examination on 
provincial legislation and association by-laws.  These exams are held 
periodically and each applicant, I believe, writes the same exam at the same 
time.
--
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*                                                                             *
* Bernhard Michael Jatzeck         email:  jatzeck@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca *
*                                                                             *
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dano@cyberramp.net wrote:
: In <302322240058262homer@ccinet.ab.ca>, homer@ccinet.ab.ca writes:
: >I disagree with Greg Jackson. The public should be protected thru 
: >legislation from people who have not qualified as a Professional 
: >Engineer by the way of provincial (Canada) laws. 
: How does it protect the public?  And did you *really* mean to say legislation
: should be handed down from people who know nothing of engineering?
But the legislation is enforced by members of the provincial professional 
engineering association.

--
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
* Bernhard Michael Jatzeck         email:  jatzeck@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca *
*                                                                             *
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dano@cyberramp.net wrote:
: In <326AD9BD.362C@e-arts.com>, "John P. Becker"  writes:
: >John S. Novak, III wrote:
: >> >Paul van den Bergen writes:
: >> >I can't see much value in a test (any test!) being of value in
: >> >determining the worthyness of an individual as a PE.
: >> Sing it, brother.
: >The only point of the P.E. exam is to determine that the individual
: >understands the principles of engineering, not to quantify a level of
: >expertise.  A degree from an
: >acredited school obviously does not satisfy this minimum threshold, due
: >to the fact 
: >that 30-40% of the test takers fail the exam.
: Why would a person with an electrical engineering degree need to know about
: column buckling?
It's regarded as part of a general background.  After all, one is bound 
to be dealing with engineers outside of one's own displine from time to time.
--
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*                                                                             *
* Bernhard Michael Jatzeck         email:  jatzeck@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca *
*                                                                             *
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Came across the welding of a stainless tank 
reinforcement plate (also 304ss) to legs of mild 
steel away from corrosive media. What does the norms 
say about this?

> At the risk of reapeating what other people have said, I will say:
> 
> These spheres are for aircraft warning, so that aircraft which may
> have reasonable chance of being in the vicinity of this power line
> will be able to see them conductors of the line more easily.
But I also saw power lines without colour balls. May you guess that 
aircrafts are free of warning in such areas?
Frank

In article <326BBF47.7FBF@ornl.gov>, c4p@ornl.gov says...
>
>Cliff W. wrote:
>> 
>> It is obvious by reading the responses to this posting that allowing only
>> licensed professional engineers to use the title of engineer is
>> controversial. 
>That's just it, Cliff - everyone who makes it through engineering school is 
NOT 
>on the 
>same page.  In doing work for the public (i.e.- outside your own company) 
it nee
>ds to be 
>clear what your qualifications are.  Do you want a pre-med graduate to 
perform s
>urgery 
>on you?  Would an Intern be good enough?  How about a Surgeon with a 
Medical Lic
>ense 
>who's area of expertise is directly in what you hired him for?  Isn't that 
what'
>s 
>required and expected?  Why would you then expect less of an engineer?  
Faulty d
>esigns 
>from Engineers can quickly harm more than the doctor's one-at-a-time 
surgery pat
>ient - 
>through aircraft accidents, auto defects, building & bridge structural 
failures.
You know, I've been following this thread from the beginning, and I can't 
help but smile at all this.  You PE's fail to acknowledge that the term 
"engineer" is not used the same as "doctor" or "lawyer", and never has.  
History is against you.  It is unfortunate that garbagepeople want to be 
called sanitary engineers, but that is what we have.  My suggestion is that 
we simply ridicule people who choose such titles, that will shame them into 
using more accurate job titles.
Fact is that most engineering work is done by non-registered engineers.  All 
work that may endanger human life requires a PE to approve the plans, and 
rightly so.  From my point of view, a PE simply serves the function of 
licensing and standarization.  If your design is faulty, we can find you.  
What is the problem?  The problem is ego.  A PE doesn't make you a "better" 
engineer.  
I'm in the HVAC field, working as a sales rep.  I have an ME degree from an 
accredited university, 13 years of experience, and am a full member of 
ASHRAE.  I work with engineers all the time, in their offices, and on the 
phone.  They call me because they know I have detailed knowledge of what I 
sell, and that I can often prevent costly mistakes.  My job title is "sales 
engineer", and I will defend that title, even though some others who do 
similar things (without the degree/experince) also call themselves that.  I 
think that those who have no degree/and/or/experience know that they are not 
engineers.  There is no confusion.  Just ego.
Regards,
Peter Carmel
Sales Engineer

There is a new homepage on the Internet about Heat Flux Sensors, from TNO-TPD.
The Heat Flux Sensors are often used for rapid determination of thermal conductivity of insulating materials,
mass flow, endothermic processes, Earth, Soil/Agriculture, Labatory, Food & chemical processing etc
etc.....so I thought it might be interesting for you.
http://www.tno.nl/instit/tpd/product/heatflux/index.htm

Nova Biomedical, ISO 9001 certified, is a world leader in developing 
and manufacturing medical instrumentation. We have the following 
position openings in Waltham, Massachusetts.
INSIDE SALES REPRESENTATIVES
If you're ambitious and sales oriented, we'll provide excellent training 
to start you on an exciting sales career. You'll contact prospects, 
qualify interest, make phone presentations, and work as part of a team 
to develop sales. Prior experience in sales preferred but not necessary. 
Salary and commissions. 
PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM MANAGER 
To manage multidisciplinary teams in the development of medical 
diagnostic products employing biosensors.  Includes scheduling, 
budgeting and day-to-day technical supervision of ME's, EE's, 
software engineers and chemists. Requires advanced degree in 
chemistry and 3-5 years experience managing projects from concept 
development to product roll-out.
Nova Biomedical, ISO 9001 certified, is a world leader in developing 
and manufacturing medical instrumentation. We have the following 
position openings in Waltham, Massachusetts.
SENIOR ELECTRICAL ENGINEER
To develop electronic systems incorporating analog and digital 
circuitry design from concept manufacturing . Requires: BSEE, 
MSEE desired, 5+ years experience in design and experience with 
FDA/CPLD, microcontrollers, schematic capture in a small team 
environment. Some supervisory experience.
GROUP LEADER,  MECHANICAL DESIGN ENGINEER
To lead the mechanical design effort of new  products from concept to 
completion. With minimum of supervision, the candidate will plan 
and supervise the mechanical effort of several individuals while aiding 
the Program Manager in the development of specifications and 
program schedules. Will apply advanced engineering skills in solving 
design problems including fluid flow, heat transfer, packaging, and 
statistical analysis. The creation of design layouts of mechanical 
assemblies usind CAD software is a important aspect of the position. 
Requires: BSME, 8+ years of mechanical and instrumentation design 
experience.
*MECHANICAL ASSEMBLERS
Under general supervision performs electronic or electromechanical 
assemblies of a repetitive nature. Assembles units such as printed 
circuit boards, modules, chassis's, mechanical assemblies using 
assembly instructions, part lists, wire diaghrams, and verbal 
instructions.Requires: 1-3 
years experience, use of small hand tools such as soldering irons, wire 
strippers, wrenches, screwdrivers and pliers. May operate automatic 
and semiautomatic assembly equipment. 
*PCB ASSEMBLER
PCB assembler for SMT and through hole. Skilled in the use small 
hand tools and the rework of assemblies. Ability to follow written and 
verbal instructions. Requires: 3-5 years of related manufacturing 
experience.
*ASSEMBLER/PACKAGER
To work within our QC department. Responsibilities include dressing 
of instruments for shipment, basic repair and touch up. Maintain 
stock level in packaging area. Requires: some packaging experience 
and computer skills a plus.
FIELD SUPPORT  REPRESENTATIVE
Looking for a person experienced in the operation and repair of 
clinical chemistry and/or blood gas instrumentation. This individual 
must be an experienced technical problem solver with above average 
communication and training skills. Requires: 3-5 years experience and 
a degree in Biomedical Technology, Medical Technology, Electronics 
or equivalent is preferred and a valid driver's license. Covering New 
York City, Newark and Long Island. Job duties include performing 
installation, repairs, preventive maintenance and customer training for 
Nova's customers/equipment. Compensation is commensurate with 
education and experience, including company car and full benefit 
package.
SENIOR MECHANICAL DESIGN DRAFTER
To provide engineering support services to project teams, draft 
engineering drawings from sketches, verify master 
mechanical/electrical layout accuracy and draft ECO 
requirements/changes. Create layouts and maintain product 
documentation in a 2D environment. Requires: 5+ years experience 
in packaging and sheet metal design. Diploma or equivalent or 
vo/tech certificate with concentration in drafting/CAD.
SENIOR MANUFACTURING PROJECT ENGINEER
Responsible for manufacturing floor support and new product 
introductions. Duties include; reviewing designs for 
manufacturability, generating manufacturing cost estimates, 
determining optimal component fabrication methods, generating 
manufacturing plans and documentation and validation of 
manufacturing and quality processes. Requires: B.S.M.E., 10+ years 
related experience supporting the development and manufacturing of 
medical instrumentation and supervisory skills.
MANUFACTURING ENGINEER/MECHANICAL
Responsible for various automation/fixturing programs within 
consumable manufacturing includes: designing tooling/fixtures, new 
packaging and reagent pouches; process changes to enhance 
manufacturability, process/equipment validations, and specification of 
new automation for manufacturing. Requires: B.S.M.E., experience 
in a reagent/consumables manufacturing
environment providing technical floor support for processes and 
associated documentation; ability to interface with Manufacturing, 
R&D; and QC/QA in the development of new products/processes and 
enhancements of existing product/processes; and knowledge of ISO, 
FDA and GMP.
DESIGN DRAFTER
To provide Engineering Support Services and project teams,  draft 
engineering drawings from sketches, verify master 
mechanical/electrical layout accuracy and draft ECO 
requirements/changes. Create layouts and maintain product 
documentation. Requires: 5+ years experience, diploma or equivalent 
or vo/tech certificate with concentration in drafting/CAD, experience 
a plus.
INSIDE SALES REPRESENTATIVES
If you're ambitious and sales oriented, we'll provide excellent training 
to start you on an exciting sales career. You'll contact prospects, 
qualify interest, make phone presentations, and work as part of a team 
to develop sales. Prior experience in sales preferred but not necessary. 
Salary and commissions. 
INTERNATIONAL MARKETING SPECIALIST
To support sales and marketing activities of our international regional 
managers, subsidiaries and distributors. Includes order and 
demonstration tracking, sales reporting, and develops product and 
promotional materials, competitive data; and, regulatory 
requirements, coordinating sales meetings and distributor 
relationships. Requires degree, 5+ years international experience and 
foreign languages, preferable Spanish.
Please send/fax resume to:	Nova Biomedical
				Attn: LAD
				200 Prospect Street
				Waltham, MA  02254
				Fax 617-899-6259

Thomas S. Blue wrote:
> ...do these situations show that market forces alone would create:
> 
> A) more lawsuits
> B) more legislation
> C) more respect for engineers
> D) more demand for good engineers
> E) more demand for PE's
> 
> I would be interested in your repsonses...
> 
> By the way: the time issue goes like this...
> 
> Fear of death makes you get the best doctor you can afford, fear of
> jail makes you get the best lawyer you can afford, but since most
> engineering failures are a delayed scenerio (and most people have
> terribly short term memories), engineers don't tap into the fear of
> death and/or jail market...
Unfortunately a license does not a competent doctor, plumber, engineer, or whatever, 
make. While there are some outstanding engineers who carry the PE title, there are some 
utterly incompetent boobs who also carry the PE title.
In my first job, a licensed PE told me that we could put a hinge in what was essentially 
the middle of a C clamp, because the bending moment went to zero at the point and the 
load was only shear. He even bet me five bucks on it!
In that same job, a nearly blind draftsman with a zillion years experience and no degree 
designed a C-frame rivet squeezer using Machinery's Handbook as his only reference on 
stress. It was one-third the weight of previous designs. Due to a production error, we 
had to use it to install a rivet with 69% more cross sectional area than the maximum it 
had been designed for. It worked, and his calculations stood as dramatically verified.
I personally pulled the trigger - no union mechanic would chance it. But I'd checked his 
calculations and knew he'd done his homework.
Who'd you rather signed off on your elevator - the nearly blind draftsman or the PE who 
thinks C clamps can have hinges in the middle?
Again in my first job, another PE designed a cutting tool for a critical job. He was 
told by the tool grind supervisor that it wouldn't work, and was told in reply "Who the 
hell are you? Build it like the damn drawing!"
When this same tool was used, it trashed a $100,000 part. To the experienced eye, it was 
obviously flawed. When this PE came to work under me, I put him to work "sorting 
buttons" as he couldn't design or engineer worth a damn.
Who'd you rather have working on your cutting tool projects - the tool grind supervisor, 
or the PE?
Theoretically, certification and or "licensing" by professional groups could insure that 
someone met minimum standards. Practically, it does not.
When the state does it, it amounts to nothing more than closed shop protectionism 
masquerading as "professionalism". After having graduated from an ABET certified school, 
and having passed the EIT, I dropped the idea of taking the final PE step after my 
expeiences detailed above, and after finding the main thrust of the PE society in my 
state was restricting others from competing.
You can call yourself God. You can pass a test which purports to show you've got all the 
qualities of God. You can pass a law which makes pi equal to three. None of these make 
it so.
Maybe this relates to why some of my worst quality suppliers were ISO certified....
-- 
Best regards,
Jim Tuttle
e-mail: jtuttle@productivitypartners.com
www.productivitypartners.com

    Having designed and subsequently tested vibration testing equipment,
washers of any kind other than flat washers were prohibited. The
gripping/split kinds spread, releasing the bolt. 
    We used torque and bolt design to hold parts together, and I changed
bolt shaft type or length if bolts vibrated loose.  (although I never had
any come loose on my designs- probaly because as a new engineer I
calculated the natural frequency of every bolt on every machine) 

Just for reference- Ever heard of Doctor of Garbology? The Tree Doctor? to
name a few. 
   And as to people clamoring to be known as "attorney" --I don't think it
has all that much appeal these days. 
   I always understood that sales engineer was a rep who had an
engineering degree from an accredited college or university. Some of the
posts seem to indicate otherwise. Yes? No? . 

    Betcha the ME's who built the towers called it high tension because of
the pull, and EE's who designed the wires and separators called it high
tension because of the voltage (you know EE's, couldn't they just call it
high voltage?) . 
    Then one day they got together, and argued who was first to name it
until quitting time, when they went out for a beer.... at the bar - no,
the pub- no, it's a bar-no, it's a pub......

kirchweg@sztms.tu-graz.ac.at (Gerhild Kirchweger) wrote:
>Obviously that doesn't apply to English, but in German the words for tension
>and voltage are the same, so maybe (although I doubt it) it's just a matter
>of wrong translation?
Not mistranslation, but simply older language (with obviously the same
roots as German). HV cables used to be known as High Pressure cables.
Since voltage is analogous to pressure, it can be seen where this came
from.
I also understand that the german word "tension" is used when refering
to hydraulics.
Rgds
Ian Fitter
Warrington, Cheshire                                    (UK)
------------------------------------------------------------
ianf@icf.u-net.com              idfitter@cix.compulink.co.uk
IDFitter@iee.org                   http://www.u-net.com/~icf

following this thread there seems to be a lot of signals indicating
job security, pride, ego, recognition, as well as experience vs. training 
vs. education.
I  can't help comparing this recognition of Engineer vs. P.E. with
the nursing field 20 years ago.  Three people in my family became
nurses, one through a 2 year school, earned an A.A. qualified for, sat
and passed the R.N. state boards.  The second went through a 3 year 
hospital nurses program, qualified for, sat, and passed her
RN boards, the third graduated from a University, sat for  and passed her 
state boards,  All three at one time or another ended up working as RN's 
in the same hospital, with the floor nurse job description.  Nurses were
everywhere! 
Then came the squeeze!  Cost containments cut back on the nurse to 
patient ratios, for certain RN jobs a degree was required.  Oh oh,
the diploma nurse with a blend of practical and academic experience was 
stuck on the floor, with more patients, and the degreed nurse is stuck
behind the desk with less floor nurses.  A lot of the floor nurses left 
for other opportunities (when the going gets tough, the tough go to grad 
school!), it seems their duties were picked up by LPN's, adding to the 
burdon of the "charge nurse",  
Now health care has patients going home with IV's, same day surgery (a 
good thing since one of the three nurses ended up as an OR nurse and quit 
after the OR team was cut from 5 or 6 down to 2 or 3, not including
the surgeon and gas man).  Birth by noon out by 6:00 PM, and all that...
20 years later, the 2 year AA nurse has a double MS degree, and is doing 
research, the degreed nurse has a bunch of advanced degrees and is in 
Hospital Administration, and the Diploma is in the insurance end.  The 
point is that none have patient contact!
The point is that be careful what you ask for, you may get it!  PE's with
so much work load, you'll be stuck with the responsibility of getting a 
lot of work done by less experienced or qualified folks. The "System" 
will have imposed such restraints on work force that they'll  rely on 
your expertise to run a department on a budget that allows one "real 
engineer" and  a few people (who knows what title will be used for the 
future tech-engineer types).  Roads, Bridges, Factories will be designed 
in the time allowed by an oversight group similar to todays insurance 
companies.  (Sorry, we only allow  2 days and 3 hours for a bridge 
design, and you have to use generic steel).  I've seen some of this 
already, where interns do the field work, the "engineer" checks it over, 
details are missed,
  Greg

"Mark Wright"  wrote:
>But isn't it still possible that these wires are actually called "high
>tension" because of the high tension required to string them?
No it also refers to High Voltage cables underground and High Voltage
switchgear. H.T. and H.V. are used interchangeably.
Rgds
Ian Fitter
Warrington, Cheshire                                    (UK)
------------------------------------------------------------
ianf@icf.u-net.com              idfitter@cix.compulink.co.uk
IDFitter@iee.org                   http://www.u-net.com/~icf

The following press release and information announce PDEase2D
Release 3.0 for desktop finite elements.
Please visit or web site or email or call for more information.
-- 
Richard Petti
Macsyma Inc.
20 Academy Street
Arlington, MA 02174-6436  U.S.A.
tel: 617-646-4550
email: petti@macsyma.com    info@macsyma.com
URL: http://www.macsyma.com
============================================================
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
     Macsyma Inc. Announces Release 3.0 of PDEase2D Finite Element
     -------------------------------------------------------------
                    Software with Scientific Notebooks
                    ----------------------------------
ARLINGTON, MA (October 21, 1996) - Macsyma Inc. will ship Release 3.0 of
PDEase2D(tm) finite element analysis (FEA) software on November 7, 1996.  
The new release for Windows 95(tm) and Windows NT(tm) adds a scientific 
notebook interface that includes interactive animated graphics, a 
DataViewer(tm) for displaying and editing numerical data, text 
processing, hypertext links, and a filter for importing drawings from
major CAD packages such as AutoCAD(R).
PDEase2D is extremely flexible and easy to learn.  It solves problems
in heat transfer, solid mechanics, reaction/diffusion, fluid mechanics,
electromagnetics, groundwater flow, quantum mechanics, and other fields.
"PDEase2D now combines the convenience of scientific notebooks with the
flexibility of a highly automated finite element engine. We designed 
PDEase2D so people can focus on engineering applications, rather than
on finite elements," said Macsyma Inc. President and CEO Richard Petti.
PDEase2D's simple input language, automatic grid generation and 
refinement, on-line help, and 140 working on-line demonstrations 
dramatically reduce the time required to solve nonlinear static,
dynamic, and eigenvalue problems with up to 32 simultaneous equations
plus constraints.  PDEase2D uses the same scientific notebook interface
as another Macsyma Inc. product, Macsyma(R) mathematics software.  
Macsyma software can be used to pre-process complicated equations for 
solution by PDEase2D and to post-process data generated by PDEase2D.
Macsyma Inc. is offering its new PDEase2D product at an introductory 
price of $699 until January 1, 1997. Founded in 1992, Macsyma Inc. 
develops, markets, and supports PDEase2D finite element analysis 
software and Macsyma general purpose math software.
Contact:
Christine Van Roosen or Richard Petti
Macsyma Inc.
Tel: 617-646-4550, Fax: 617-646-3161
cvanr@macsyma.com
petti@macsyma.com
http://www.macsyma.com
____________________
PDEase(R) and Macsyma(R) are registered trademarks and PDEase2D(tm) and 
DataViewer(tm) are trademarks of Macsyma Inc.  Other trademarks are the 
property of their respective owners.
____________________
Macsyma Inc.	       tel: 617-646-4550            free: 1-800-macsyma
20 Academy Street      fax: 617-646-3161                 (1-800-622-7962)
Arlington, MA 02174  email: info@macsyma.com      http://www.macsyma.com
=====================================================================
Basic product information:
       PDEase2D Software Helps You Focus on Your Applications
       ------------------------------------------------------
                        - Not on Finite Elements
                          ----------------------
Designed to take the grunt work out of finite elements, PDEase2D(tm)
from Macsyma Inc. is a revolutionary new product that will have you
solving your problems more quickly than any other product.
1 FLEXIBLE
  PDEase2D helps you solve a wide range of problems in heat
  transfer, reaction diffusion, solid mechanics, fluid mechanics,
  electromagnetics, groundwater flow, quantum mechanics and more.
  It solves static, dynamic and eigenvalue problems with up to 32
  (non)linear partial differential equations (PDEs) plus 
  constraints with an unlimited number of nodes in two space
  dimensions plus time. PDEase2D also includes 140 worked 
  sample problems from many fields, so you can often solve your 
  problem by modifying a sample problem.
2 ACCESSIBLE
  With PDEase2D's remarkably simple input language, you specify
  only the PDEs, variables, geometry and boundary conditions; 
  PDEase2D creates both numerical output tables and plots. 
  PDEase2D generates and refines the element grid, adaptively 
  selects time step size in dynamic problems, and iterates until it
  attains convergence in nonlinear problems. Because PDEase2D does
  automatic error analysis, you don't need to make several runs with
  different meshes to verify convergence. And you can choose whether
  or not to override the automatic defaults. 
3 SCIENTIFIC NOTEBOOKS
  PDEase2D's input and output appear in attractive scientific 
  notebooks with interactive animated graphics, numerical data
  tables, formatted text, hypertext links, and an active table of
  contents.
4 GRAPHICS
  PDEase2D creates many kinds of interactive animated Windows
  graphics, right in the notebooks. You can create animations of
  solutions to dynamic problems, and run them dynamically or frame
  by frame. 
5 PRE-PROCESSING AND POST-PROCESSING
  You can import geometries from CAD programs.  You can use Macsyma 
  (a separate symbolic numerical software product from Macsyma Inc.)
  to post-process the numerical output produced by PDEase2D right in
  the shared notebook interface.  For complicated equations or 
  coordinates, you can use Macsyma to write the PDEs automatically and
  pass them to PDEase2D for numerical solution.
--------------
PDEase2D runs under Windows 95 and Windows NT. A version of PDEase2D
without notebooks runs on SPARC workstations.
       "Finite Element Analysis with No Mesh, No Fuss"
       Call 800-macsyma for a free demo disk or visit
          our Web site at http://www.macsyma.com
PDEase and Macsyma are a registered trademarks of Macsyma Inc. 
PDEase2D and DataViewer are trademarks of Macsyma Inc. Other 
trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
=====================================================================
    PDEase2D Release 3.0 Brings Windows Notebook Interface to F.E.A.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
                            New Features List
PDEase2D(tm) Release 3.0 helps you organize, analyze, and communicate
your results with new features including: 
Scientific Notebooks
--------------------
PDEase2D's scientific notebooks help you produce publication-quality
documents.
 - Edit and re-execute problem specifications in-place with
   the notebook.
 - Display numerical data in scrolling DataViewer(tm) tables.  
   Import/export data as text files.
 - Work with WYSIWYG word processor features, including 
   paragraph and character formatting and styles.
 - Navigate within and between notebooks with hypertext links.
 - Move symbolic/numerical data between PDEase2D and Macsyma(R)
   software.
 - Import/export math, graphics as Windows metafiles.
Graphics
--------
PDEase2D creates many kinds of interactive Windows graphics.
 - Create plots of functions, contours, vector fields, cross
   sections, histories.
 - Animate plots in solutions of dynamic problems. 
 - Control rotation, clipping, truck, zoom, roll with your mouse.
 - Query for coordinates interactively with your mouse.
 - Edit over 250 display attributes in the notebook for a typical
   3D plot.
 - Edit publication-quality color rendering and lighting.
 - Control plot title, comments, axis labels, including text,
   position, orientation, font, and color.
 - Export graphics as .bmp, .gif, .pcx, .rle file and as Windows
   metafiles.
CAD Interface
-------------
 - Import drawings from major CAD programs (such as AutoCAD(R))
   as .dxf files
Math Capabilities
-----------------
 - Solves up to 32 simultaneous P.D.E.s. 
 - Solves problems with unlimited nodes and elements.
On-Line Help and Documentation
------------------------------
PDEase2D has such good on-line help facilities that you can find most
information without ever opening the newly upgraded and comprehensive
PDEase2D reference manual.
 - Topic browser with 120 topics and commands
 - Hypertext descriptions of 300 topics. 
 - 140 executable demonstrations accessible from menus cover many
   fields: heat transfer, solid mechanics, fluid mechanics,
   electromagnetics, reaction diffusion, quantum mechanics and more. 
======================================================================
A companion book for PDEase:
                      "FIELDS OF PHYSICS ON THE PC
                       by Finite Element Analysis"
       by: Professor Gunnar Backstrom, University of Umea (Sweden)
    Publisher: Studentlitteratur (Sweden) and Chartwell-Bratt (U.K.)
This unique book shows how to solve a wide range of classical physics
problems with the aid of a novel new PC program, PDEase(R).  The book
includes problems involving gravity, electricity and magnetism, heat
conduction, elastic deformation and fluid flow.  These problems all
involve solving (systems of) partial differential equations (PDEs) by
finite element analysis (FEA).  Using this book and the PDEase software,
the reader can focus on the actual physics of problems rather than on
numerical methods.
Engineers, scientists and students who can express a problem in
terms of PDEs can profit from this book.  Besides providing an
introduction to solving problems with PDEase software, the book offers
insight into many interesting phenomena in classical physics as well as
the power of FEA.
This book will be helpful to advanced undergraduates, graduate students
and practicing engineers and scientists who need to solve problems
involving PDEs.
                             Table of Contents
1. Plotting Functions
   Graphical Facilities of PDease
   "Curly" Velocity Fields
   Harmonic Functions
   Fields of Gravitation
2. Electricity
   Electric Point Charges
   The Laplace Equation
   Electrical Conduction
   Dielectrics in (x,y) Space
   Steady Fields in (r,z) Space
3. Magnetism
   Magnetostatics in (x,y) Space
   Magnetostatics in (r,z) Space
4. Heat
   Steady Heat Conduction in (x,y) Space 
   Steady Heat Conduction in (r,z) Space 
   Non-linear Conduction Problems 
   Simultaneous Electric and Thermal Conduction
   Time-Sinusoidal Problems
   Transient Problems in One Space Dimension 
   Transient Problems in (x,y) and (r,z) Space
5. Elasticity
   Elementary Elasticity in (x,y) Space
   More Elasticity in (x,y) Space
   Bending of Beams
   Simple Torsion
   Elasticity in (x,y) Space
   Thermo-Elasticity in (x,y) and (r,z) Space   
6. Liquid Flow
   Irrotational Flow of Liquids
   Viscous Flow of Liquids in (x,y) Space 
   Viscous Flow in (x,y) Space Past an Obstacle
   Viscous Flow in (r,z) Space
Appendices
   Principles of Finite Element Analysis 
   Never Used the DOS Editor Before?
   Syntax of PDEase
   References
   Index
This book is available from Macsyma Inc. at a price of $55.  This 
price includes shipping and handling in the U.S.A. and Canada. 

Klwasson wrote:
> 
> >Has anybody ever heard of a visco-electro globby type material? My boss
> >claims to have read some article somewhere about a material that changes
> >from a viscous gunge to a solid when you apply a voltage across it. This
> >sounds pretty unlikely if you ask me, but if anybody has any references
> >to such a material, I'd be grateful.
> 
> The "effective viscosity" of magnetorheological fluids change when you
> pass a magnetic field through them.  You can look up "ferrous fluids" in
> Thomas Register to find them.  I'm told that they basically contain very
> small "strips" of ferrous metals throughout the fluid.  These particles
> cause more viscous shearing in the fluid than ordinarily without them.
> When you pass a magnetic field through the fluid it will tend to align
> these strips of fluid.  So if the fluid is passing between parallel plates
> and the particles all align in the direction of flow then obviously the
> particles are causing minimal viscous shearing.  But when you take the
> magnetic field off, they are no longer aligned with the flow, you get more
> shearing, and therefore higher "effective viscosity."
> 
> I am skeptical there is a material that actually turns into a solid in the
> presence of a magnetic field.  I've never heard of it.
Visco-electro material changes the viscosity in a presence of electric
field. If I remember correct, mixture of water and flour is one of them.
Texas A&M; Turbomachinery department was work an Electroviscous dampers,
which uses such material.
URL: 
Shin

I have seen this thread so many times it makes my head spin.
At opposite ends of the spectrum are PEs that think they are the only ones capable of a technical thought and 
non-PEs (in some cases, non-engineers) who resent the hell out of the fact that someone else has jumped through 
the hoops (punched the tickets, you name it).
I am a mechanical engineer, I don't claim to be a machinist, mechanic, pipefitter or plumber.  I am sure that I 
have made some dumbass mistakes, but I am not alone, folks.  To hear tales of how stupid this particular PE is 
(was) may do heaps for your self-esteem in a non-constructive way, but does it really improve the way you do 
your job?
We are all needed.  We all have functions.  Does the machinist really want to be an engineer?  How is he being 
prevented from doing so?  I wasn't born with a diploma tucked in my backside and you weren't born with a 
micrometer tucked in yours (I don't think so anyway).  This is not directed at machinists by the way, it's just 
a convenient example.
There are tradesmen, non-licensed engineers and PEs.  We could all cut this crap out and use this medium to 
disseminate information or we can continue to bicker.  I prefer the latter.
Kevin Rhodes, (dare I say it?) P.E.

Jim Tuttle wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately a license does not a competent doctor, plumber, engineer, or whatever,
> make. While there are some outstanding engineers who carry the PE title, there are 
> some utterly incompetent boobs who also carry the PE title.

And we all know motorcycle riders who have gotten hurt in an accident.  So what?
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C. Wayne Parker, P.E.   c4p@ornl.gov
Lockheed Martin Energy Systems, Inc.        ...but, I speak
Oak Ridge National Laboratory                 for myself...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Reader,
    I'm searching for a mathematical relationship used in
engineering that can be described as an IMPLICIT RELATIONSHIP. One 
example that I already know:   The wall thickness of a pressure vesselfor 
example, should be proportional to it's surface area, and should remain 
so even as its size changes. 
    If you know any other examples please let me know.
Tushar Mithaiwala

>> These spheres are for aircraft warning, so that aircraft which may
>> have reasonable chance of being in the vicinity of this power line
>> will be able to see them conductors of the line more easily.
>
>But I also saw power lines without colour balls. May you guess that 
>aircrafts are free of warning in such areas?
That's right.  The balls are only installed in the vicinity of
airports, where airplanes are likely to be operating at low altitude.

Greg Pabst wrote:
> 
>
> The point is that be careful what you ask for, you may get it!  PE's with
> so much work load, you'll be stuck with the responsibility of getting a
> lot of work done by less experienced or qualified folks. The "System"
> will have imposed such restraints on work force that they'll  rely on
> your expertise to run a department on a budget that allows one "real
> engineer" and  a few people (who knows what title will be used for the
> future tech-engineer types).  Roads, Bridges, Factories will be designed
> in the time allowed by an oversight group similar to todays insurance
> companies.  (Sorry, we only allow  2 days and 3 hours for a bridge
> design, and you have to use generic steel).  I've seen some of this
> already, where interns do the field work, the "engineer" checks it over,
> details are missed,
> 
>   Greg
Actually, there is a title, its been around for many many years -
DESIGNER.  Over the years, many very experienced and knowlegable folk
have carried this title, with great distinction.  The really scary
'interns' are the recently graduated engineers who know 'more' than us
experienced designers.
Dave Lawson
Mechanical Designer

:    I'm searching for a mathematical relationship used in
:engineering that can be described as an IMPLICIT RELATIONSHIP. One 
:example that I already know:   The wall thickness of a pressure vesselfor 
:example, should be proportional to it's surface area, and should remain 
:so even as its size changes. 
why is that "implicit"?
-- 
george 	
george@mech.seas.upenn.edu

>
Hello `Engineers' all
With modern methods of using higher tensile bolts the poor washer is
often overlooked. It is often the case that a bolt does not back off
under load or vibration. The component being clamped often has standard
material ie mild steel, whilst fasteners are high tensile material.
The transfer of load from below the bolt/nut face thro the washer to the
component material gives rise to substantially different stress values,
to the point where the standard size washer used squeezes out the parent
material causing a localised reduction in `grip' thickness.
If loosening of bolts occur check local stress values at connection
interfaces and design a special washer for the job if necessary.
A high tensile washer with increased surface area to suit the max
component material strength, plus increased washer thickness to
compensate for the increase in bending moment on the washer, may prove a
solution.
This works well on crushers, vibratory screens and similar problems.
As engineers can't spell, then I can't check my spelling.
But then I'm not a PE, CEng or anything else.
Love to all readers.
-- 
Alan Severn
Newark on Trent, Nottm, Eng, UK.

Dick Lambert wrote:
> The laws are reasonable - they prevent the public from being mislead.
> You wouldn't want to have to worry about whether your doctor, lawyer or
> CPA was really a doctor, lawyer or CPS would you?
I addressed many of my former college professors as "Doctor ...", yet I
certainly wouldn't go to one of them for medical treatment.  If I need
help with the books in my small business, I might hire an "ordinary"
accountant (namely because hiring a CPA would be overkill).  Of course
if I get audited by the IRS, I'll probably wish I had hired a CPA.  But
that's my choice as a consumer.
It is ridiculous to try and regulate the use of a generic title such as
"engineer" or "accountant".  I, as a consumer, have the responsibility
(and the right) to determine the level of service I purchase (or don't
purchase). You can protect the designation (M.D., P.E., C.S.P., etc.)
because it is a trademark of the issuing organization.  The issuing
organization can thus control who has the right to display the
designation.  But by restricting the use of a very descriptive word like
"engineer", you force non-"Professional" engineers to redefine
themselves in less concise terminology, such as "guy/gal who designs
things" (oops, the Professional Designers might object to that title).
I personally go to an M.D. for medical treatment rather than a D.O.,
because **I** choose to, even though an M.D.'s costs are generally
higher.  If I'm letting bids for the design of a new office building,
I'll hire a P.E..  However, that doesn't mean that a P.E., and their
generally higher costs, are required for every situation.
> Same thing applies to
> the engineering profession. In order to present yourself as an
> "Engineer" you need to take the exam provided by the state to prove you
> have the knowledge to warrant the title.
No. You don't.  In order to present youself as a "Professional
Engineer", or P.E., you need to take the exam provided by the state to
prove you have the knowledge to warrant the title.  Don't forget, the
state of Michigan recognizes that Dr. Kevorkian has the knowledge to
warrant the title of M.D.
Don't get me wrong, title (P.E., M.D., etc) protection is fine.  Let's
just make sure we don't paint with too broad (or is that fine) a brush. 
After the title of "Engineer" is completely protected, the next step
will be to say that only "engineers" can perform "engineering" work.
We've got enough government meddling in the freedoms of individuals the
way it is.  Let's not let a bunch of insecure crybabies who are afraid
of losing their $100,000 plus salaries to some qualified (albeit
non-certified) competition convince our legislators that they need
special protection from the government.
Kent D. Johnson
Safety Professional (not certified)
Web Engineer (not certified)
Republican (registered)
kentdj@revealed.net
QC-Impact Web Design
Jesus is Alive...Elvis Isn't!

Hello Engineers,
	I'm a Mechanical Engineering student and working on a project
using Cosmos.  The project is finding the load and stresses where the jack
will fail.  Very interesting, but I'm coming across some problems modeling
it. I using a 2-d Beam analysis in cosmos to find all reactions and then
transferring the forces to a 3-d model to find stresses. (I want to find
location of buckling)
	Here's my problem.  In Cosmos, A beam is defined by two nodes.
But a beam can have more than 2 reactions on it. Two members of my jack
has these forces acting on it.  The mebers cross(think of a X ) At the
point of the X it is pin jointed to both members. See my problem?  Do I
have to model one member with 2beams? How will I set boundary conditions
so it is still pin jointed ,but have the 2 beams defined as one? (Do I set
the pin joint in Real Constants)
	Any feed back on modeling or to my specific question will greatly
be appreciated.  The due date is coming fast! thanks Bg 

This whole thing is kind of silly.  Where provincial or state laws
legislate the use of the term "engineer", that is the way things are,
and they're certainly not about to change.  The establishment is too
well established.  Here in Alberta, the regulating body is APEGGA, which
is given its powers by provincial law.  The term "engineer" is reserved
for P.Eng.'s  (the Canadian version of P.E.'s) only.  I don't think
APEGGA would prosecute someone who called themselves a domestic engineer
or sanitation engineer, unless they advertised themselves as such.  I
don't speak for APEGGA, though (thankfully).
Personally, I think it's important that a distinction be made between
someone who has met the qualifications for a P.Eng. and someone who
hasn't.  Someone in a technical profession can recognize a person's
qualifications (be they a P.Eng. or not) and decide if that person can
do an adequate job on a project.  However, what the law (in Alberta,
anyway) is designed to do is protect the general public.  If someone has
no technical knowledge, but needs to hire an engineering firm to perform
some task, he/she may just look in the Yellow Pages (or some other
advertising medium) under "Engineering".  He/she has no way of knowing
if that company is qualified to do the work required.  Where the term
"Engineer" is regulated, like in Alberta, the only engineering companies
or engineers listed are those who have been certified by APEGGA.  If an
engineer or engineering company screws up in some way, they face
disciplinary action from APEGGA, which could range from a reprimand to
removal of registration (and there goes your nice ad in the yellow
pages).  An intermediate form of discipline is to make the engineer in
question take some further courses.  The whole point I'm trying to make
is that while many unregistered people are quite qualified to do many of
the things that only engineers can legally do, the general public has no
way of knowing who is and isn't qualifed, unless there is a licensing
body.
(The above is only my interpretation of what I've understood APEGGA's
mission to be.)
The lastest row here in Alberta was not over the use of the title
"Engineer", but over whether or not registered engineering technologists
should have some of the same legal powers as P.Eng.'s to stamp/certify
drawings.  (I hope this doesn't start a new flame war here.  If it does,
notice that I haven't given an opinion...)
There was a rumour that appeared on the TV news here a while ago that
suggested that the Alberta College of Physicians and Surgeons wanted the
province to regulate the term "Doctor", just like "Engineer" is
presently regulated.  How would all you PhD's out there think about not
being able to put "Dr." before your name anymore?  (That's a rhetorical
question!)
-Paul

tord.s.eriksson wrote:
> 
> In the lighter power range (suiatble GA aircraft)
> there seems to be quite a few diesels being developed.
> 
> I guess it's a way of getting rid of avgas and increasing efficency.
> Can a diesel be run on Kerosene? they run very well on natural gas,
> as evident by maybe 50 buses in my homw town ...
Diesel fuel IS basically kerosene.  Generically, kerosene is quite a
mixture of hydrocarbons.  Legally sold Diesel fuel has to meet certain
specs.  Basically, Diesels can be run on virtually any hydrocarbon,
but higher speed ones, such as are used in aircraft, require a certain
cetane number, which is almost the inverse of octane number, and
measure how EASILY it combusts.  So not every thing that can be used
in a Diesel somewhere is usable in an aircraft Diesel.
An interesting idea is a hybrid that works basically on the Diesel
cycle, but does include a spark plug to allow the engine to burn lower
cetane fuels at higher rpm. Ford worked on one a number of years ago.
The spark plug works for an extended period of crankshaft rotation,
and sits in the stream from the injector.  This seems like a great
idea to me, and I don't know why it was not pursued.
-- 
Don Stauffer in Minneapolis

If you have an HP 48*, get the program POLY.  It will take
roots from n power equations, take partial fractions, divide
polynomials, etc.
Martin

Ian. Tension comes from French, not German. Tension is translated by
voltage. In German it's something like spannung (don't remember exactly).
High tension lines definitely means high voltage lines. In Europe that term
is used for 11 kv lines and up.
-- Luc
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vanbavel/       Since 26SEP96
Mikoyan Design Bureau - Lockheed F-16 - Jet Squalus - FEA and Composites
Ian Fitter  a �crit dans l'article
<326f0c61.187317513@news.u-net.com>...
> kirchweg@sztms.tu-graz.ac.at (Gerhild Kirchweger) wrote:
> 
> 
> >Obviously that doesn't apply to English, but in German the words for
tension
> >and voltage are the same, so maybe (although I doubt it) it's just a
matter
> >of wrong translation?
> 
> Not mistranslation, but simply older language (with obviously the same
> roots as German). HV cables used to be known as High Pressure cables.
> Since voltage is analogous to pressure, it can be seen where this came
> from.
> 
> I also understand that the german word "tension" is used when refering
> to hydraulics.
> 
> Rgds
> 
> Ian Fitter
> 
> Warrington, Cheshire                                    (UK)
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ianf@icf.u-net.com              idfitter@cix.compulink.co.uk
> IDFitter@iee.org                   http://www.u-net.com/~icf
> 

I am looking for some technical help for a situation we are facing
regarding work on tank ventilation systems which may contain flammable
atmospheres.  We are monitoring the space for LFL (keeping below 25% of
lower flammability limits), but restrictions placed on us require that
any work in the air space can not cause a temperature exceeding 320
degrees F and can't cause any sparking (either by friction or by static
electricity).  We need to cut a 20" header which is made of stainless
steel (about 1/8" thickness).  We will also cut some carbon steel pipes
of schedule 40 from 1" up to 8" in these same conditions.  Note that
these cuts will be performed in a trench with limited access.
We are running out of ideas.  It seems that any standard cutting method
(i.e. using saws, machining cutters, TORCHES, grinding wheels) could
either exceed 320 degrees at the cut or cause a spark.  I would
appreciate information from anyone who has access to new technologies
(or old) that could work in these conditions.  
Thanks!!!!

CORROSIONEERING � Vol. 1 Number 3 Now Available On-line
Corrosioneering� is an on-line newsletter sponsored by CLI
International, Inc. Corrosioneering will periodically post short
technical articles that may be of interest to the materials community.
This issue's topics are:
Materials Selection for High Temperature Industrial Environments
Common Coating Failures: Causes and Remedies
Specialists Attend Corrosion Symposium in Rio de Janeiro Brasil
Steps for Efficient Steam Generation
Stress Corrosion Testing
H2S Cracking of Carbon Steels and Weldments
ASTM Workshop on Data Development and Interpretation of Fracture
Mechanics Tests in Hydrogen Producing Environments.
The Corrosioneering Newsletter is available at:
http://www.clihouston.com

In <54idub$fts@news.sas.ab.ca> jatzeck@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
>: Because I haven't seen a uniform test administered to large numbers of
>: people of varying backgrounds and locations capable of measuring
>: anything accurately, much less something as esoteric as engineering
>: ability.
>Every applicant has to write the same exam.  I guess that qualifies as 
>uniform up here.
I guess it qualifies as uniform, but you have yet to demonstrate
accuracy.
--
John S. Novak, III           jsn@cris.com
http://cegt201.bradley.edu/~jsn/index.html 
The Humblest Man on the Net

Hi!
Kevin Rhodes, P.E.  wrote in article
<326D4C5F.66FC@ix.netcom.com>...
snip
> We could all cut this crap out and use this medium to 
> disseminate information or we can continue to bicker.  I prefer the
latter.
You prefer the bickering?

Hi, just popping in, and note that there is some controversy here.
From the postings, it is not clear where this discussion/practice is
applicable, however I am familiar with the IEEE requirements and - in
a nutshell - if you are not registered then you are not allowed to
trade or offer services under the title of engineer (huh... according
to the OED, this is a person who is allowed to drive a locomotive!).
The public must be made aware of the services they are 'contracting
in' thereby setting up some security for professional services that,
upon negligence of the engineer, the client  or state may sue for
damages.
Thus the purpose of registering is to protect both the engineer and
the client.
George Ralston (Pr Tech Eng, SAIEE, SAIMENA, SAIMC) 
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:21:59 -0400, "C. Wayne Parker" 
wrote:
>Cliff W. wrote:
>> 
>> It is obvious by reading the responses to this posting that allowing only
>> licensed professional engineers to use the title of engineer is
>> controversial. 
>If Cliff and those like him just want to be able to use the word "engineer" in their 
>titles, perhaps engineering graduates of ABET-accredited curriculum should be called 
>"Graduate Engineers", those who go on to pass the Fundamentals (E-I-T) Exam should be 
>called "Registered Engineers", and those who ultimately pass the Principles and Practice 
>of Engineering (P.E.) Exam should be called Licensed Professional Engineers.
>
>> That is why for an organization and its members, who try to have laws
>> passed without input from all those affected is so wrong.
>
>So...to try to make it clear to the General Public what a person's professional 
>qualifications are is wrong?  Is that what Cliff would have us believe?
>
>> What do you do with the non-licensed engineer who has been working as an
>> engineer in the field for lets say 15 years. Do you give him news one day
>> saying, either you take immediate steps to become a licensed engineer or
>> you no longer can work in your field.
>
>If he has been working under an industrial exemption, he would not be affected and could 
>call himself "Engineer Head Honcho", or whatever title he wanted.  If he has been 
>working "as an engineer" outside of his company, he may already be in violation of State 
>law.
>
>> Most licensed engineers that you talk with will agree that once your (sic) away
>> from college for a few years it's very difficult to pass the EIT & PE
>> exams.
>
>Wouldn't this, then, be a good reason to make sure engineers are and stay at least 
>"educationally" qualified?  Yes, the exam would not be easy for those out of college for 
>a few years - so what?  I had been out of college for 20 years when I took the P.E. 
>exam; I didn't expect to have the professional standard lowered just for me.
>
>> I hope anyone who agrees that allowing only licensed engineers to use
>> the title of engineer is wrong, will let their voice be heard so the
>> everyone is reading off of the same page.
>
>That's just it, Cliff - everyone who makes it through engineering school is NOT on the 
>same page.  In doing work for the public (i.e.- outside your own company) it needs to be 
>clear what your qualifications are.  Do you want a pre-med graduate to perform surgery 
>on you?  Would an Intern be good enough?  How about a Surgeon with a Medical License 
>who's area of expertise is directly in what you hired him for?  Isn't that what's 
>required and expected?  Why would you then expect less of an engineer?  Faulty designs 
>from Engineers can quickly harm more than the doctor's one-at-a-time surgery patient - 
>through aircraft accidents, auto defects, building & bridge structural failures...you'd 
>think Cliff would be concerned about that...
>
>-- 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>C. Wayne Parker, P.E.   c4p@ornl.gov
>Lockheed Martin Energy Systems, Inc.        ...but, I speak
>Oak Ridge National Laboratory                 for myself...
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JNovak6204 wrote:
> 
> If you train an inexperienced engineer and he turns out good, you better
> hang on to him because chances are that in two to three years he'll be
> looking for greener pastures so give him raises of he'll walk.
> jnovak6204@aol.com
Or he'll walk cause of fear of being labeled unemployable.
 Fresh out of school requires him to move every 3 years
to a higher paying job. 
______End of text  from altavoz___________

Organization: Edmonton FreeNet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Distribution: 
John S. Novak, III (Jsn@cris.com) wrote:
: In <54idub$fts@news.sas.ab.ca> jatzeck@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
: >: Because I haven't seen a uniform test administered to large numbers of
: >: people of varying backgrounds and locations capable of measuring
: >: anything accurately, much less something as esoteric as engineering
: >: ability.
: >Every applicant has to write the same exam.  I guess that qualifies as 
: >uniform up here.
: I guess it qualifies as uniform, but you have yet to demonstrate
: accuracy.
I should have clarified something.  In Alberta, the exam is on the 
provincial legislation governing professional engineering and the 
association by-laws.  The academic qualifications have to be submitted to 
the admissions committee which decide if one is suitable for registration 
on that basis.
Most P. Eng.'s I know acquired their academic qualifications by 
convocating from a recognized university.  Some technologists can qualify 
by writing a set of examinations on a variety of subjects, which the 
association has prepared, and demonstrate their background that way.
In addition to the academic qualifications and familiarity with the law, 
demonstrated valid experience is also required.  Again, the association 
decides what's acceptable.
--
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
* Bernhard Michael Jatzeck         email:  jatzeck@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************

altavoz  wrote in article
<326DABC5.752F@worldnet.att.net>...
> JNovak6204 wrote:
> > If you train an inexperienced engineer and he turns out good, you
better
> > hang on to him because chances are that in two to three years he'll be
> > looking for greener pastures so give him raises of he'll walk.
> > jnovak6204@aol.com
> 
> 
> Or he'll walk cause of fear of being labeled unemployable.
>  Fresh out of school requires him to move every 3 years
> to a higher paying job. 
> 
> ______End of text  from altavoz___________
> 
I don't follow the statement 'requires him'

>But isn't it still possible that these wires are actually called "high
>tension" because of the high tension required to string them?  The tower
>structures are usually spaced quite far apart and are carrying quite a
>number of large diameter copper cables.
If the cables were made of copper they would soon stretch and reach the 
ground. Then there wouldn't be any "high tension" left in them. Copper 
stretches like crazy.
>I would think they would have to tension the crap out of those things 
>just to get them strung from tower to tower.
>
>Think about stringing a light cage TV cable all the way across your yard. 
>You have to pull quite hard and still have a pretty good droop.
>
>-- 
>Mark Wright, PE
>SCIMED Life Systems

In article <01bbbf71$b1a34ea0$28c00bce@mwright.scimed.com>, "Mark Wright"  says:
>
>Will's example of how it changes on the micro scale is particularly true in
>the example in the original post.  The high normal force on a sled runner
>usually results in a thin film of water being created underneath it,
>thereby changing u from steel-on-snow to steel-on-water.
>
>This effect does not exist when you drag a sled on asphalt for example, and
>you would end up with the same frictional force as the sheet of steel.
>
>-- 
>Mark Wright, PE
I'm sorry to disagree but the pressure under a sled runner is no where near
enough to cause melting of the snow. You are thinking of ice skates on ice
where the pressure is very great. It is even enhanced by the hollow grinding
of the skate to form sharp edges that are less than 90 degrees and therefore
put even greater pressure on the ice as you lean to one side. 
Round here the snow is often at -40 deg C and no amount of pressure, within 
reason, is going to warm that up to 0 degrees.