Subject: Re: Just try this, it will work
From: rknight@runner.utsa.edu (Richard Yael Knight)
Date: 3 Nov 1996 05:32:21 GMT
Followup-To: alt.telescopes.meade.lx200,comp.software.measurement,alt.music.meat-loaf,fj.engr.mech,sci.engr.mech,rec.games.mecha,alt.games.mechwarrior2,alt.politics.media,fj.soc.media,alt.internet.media-coverage,ba.internet.media-coverage,fj.net.media.ethernet,finet.freenet.mediateekki.yle.radio.mafia,alt.image.medical,fj.sci.medical,fj.soc.medical,misc.education.medical,relcom.commerce.medicine,talk.politics.medicine,de.soc.medien,soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,maus.sci.medizin,de.alt.megates
t
References: <267.654193326831@news.nemonet.com>
Organization: The University of Texas at San Antonio
Distribution: world
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Well, another person "killed!" Those people using low-tech readers
might want to switch to tin or another one with a kill file that's easy to use.
-Richard
Subject: Re: Tire Stiffnesses
From: Doug Milliken
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 05:07:35 GMT
On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Craig A. VanBuren wrote:
> I was wondering if there was anyone out there in the tire industry who
> could provide me with typical tire stiffnesses. This is for a
> P205/55R16 tire for an Audi Quattro and will be used in setermining the
> ride rate and natural frequencies for the suspension. Thanks for any
Well, if you have the car sitting on these tires, the static deflection
will give you 2 data points -- assuming that you know the corner weights of
a front and rear corner. Just get out some measuring instruments and jack
it up until the tire is barely touching the ground (for a zero-load
reference). With a few friends to sit on the corner of the car (over the
scale) you can measure a few more points, etc. Basically, this isn't all
that hard to measure, assuming that you don't need wonderful accuracy.
Find a local race team to loan you their scales for an afternoon -- they
might even learn something by watching you.
My memory is that most pass car tires at typical 25-30 psi pressures are in
the vicinity of 1800 to 2000 pounds/inch vertical spring rate. This is
obviously linearized for a typical load like 750 pounds, the actual
load-deflection curve is pretty nonlinear over the total load range seen in
operation.
For some reason, this type of data was not included in our book, "Race Car
Vehicle Dynamics", and several people have pointed out our omission...
Must have been brain fade after 8 years working on the project.
Sincerely,
-- Doug
Douglas Milliken
Milliken Research Associates Inc.
Subject: Re: Math formulas
From: Wilbert Dijkhof
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 14:00:56 -0800
J. B. Wood wrote:
>
> In article ,
> heilmayr@math.berkeley.edu (Stephan Heilmayr) wrote:
>
> > In article <550bar$81k@news-central.tiac.net>,
> > numtheor@tiac.net (Bob Silverman) wrote:
> >
> > >>> The Mathematica people have done something
> > >>> on the quintic
> > >
> > >> I'm sure they have. But they haven't found a general solution, because
> > >> that's impossible.
> > >
> > > Sorry, but you are incorrect. A general solution of the quintic certainly
> > > IS possible; it is given in terms of Elliptic functions.
> >
> > OK, I guess I've just displayed my ignorance of elliptic functions. But
> > this does show that "general solution" is kind of vague. As someone
> > pointed out, there is in a sense trivially a general solution (namely the
> > function from the coefficients of a quintic to the solution set). But one
> > of the things I would expect from a _useful_ general solution is that it
> > allow us to derive, for example, the rational solutions in the usual form
> > (a ratio of integers). I would expect similar things for complex solutions
> > with rational coefficients. Certainly the trivial general solution can't
> > give us this, and I don't think the solution in terms of elliptic functions
> > can, either (though maybe I am once again displaying my ignorance of
> > elliptic functions).
> >
> > -- Klaus (heilmayr@math.berkeley.edu)
>
> It is my understanding that no "algebraic" or closed-form solution exists
> for the roots of a polynomial of degree 5 or higher. An algebraic
> solution for the roots of a polynomial is one in which the variable, say
> x, is on one side of the equals sign and some expression involving only
> the coefficients of the polynomial is on the other side of the equals
> sign. Some of my mathematician coworkers tell me that it has been proven
> that a closed-form solution for the roots of quintics and higher cannot
> exist. Of course, the roots of any polynomial may be found by iterative
> techniques such as Newton-Raphson.
Algebraic isn't the same as closed-form.
You know that polynomials of degree 3 are solvable, expressed in two ways:
in roots or sin/arcsin functions.
The sin and arcsin functions are (on themselves) transcedental functions.
You can express the solution of a polynomial of degree 5 in terms of elliptic
functions which are also transcedental functions, but I don't know how.
> John Wood (202) 767-2608
> Code 5551 e-mail: wood@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> Naval Research Laboratory
> 4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
> Washington, DC 20375-5337
Wilbert
Subject: Economic Evaluation & Investment Decision Methods short course
From: Jim Proud
Date: 5 Nov 1996 16:58:55 GMT
Colorado School of Mines
and
Investment Evaluations Corporation
announce a short-course:
“Economic Evaluation and Investment
Decision Methods”
by Frank Stermole and John Stermole
This intensive 5-day course has been presented over 650 times
to more than 17,000 people since 1970. Organized for managers,
engineers, geologists, landmen, scientists, accountants and
others concerned with evaluating investments, this course
relates to the economic analysis of income producing and
service producing investments using discounted cash flow
analyses criteria and procedures. The course covers economic
analysis techniques used to optimize the development and
operation of mining, petroleum and non natural resource
production and processing operations. The textbook, “Economic
“Evaluation and Investment Decision Methods by Franklin J.
Stermole and John M. Stermole, demonstrates the evaluation
techniques presented using a variety of applications for people
with technical and non-technical backgrounds, with or without
previous evaluation experience.
Dates:
December 2-6, 1996 - Golden, Colorado
May 12-16, 1997 - Golden, Colorado
June 9-13, 1997 - Houston, Texas
July 21-25, 1997 - Golden, Colorado
Sept. 22-26, 1997 - Beaver Creek, Colorado
October 20-24, 1997 - Dallas, Texas
December 8-12, 1997 - Golden, Colorado
Cost: $1,195.00 (US) Includes tuition and a three-textbook set.
For an application and/or further information contact the
Office of Special Programs and Continuing Education at the
Colorado School of Mines. Phone: (800) 446-9488 ext.3321. Fax:
(303) 273-3314. E-mail: space@mines.edu
Subject: Conference proceedings available
From: Jim Proud
Date: 5 Nov 1996 17:23:52 GMT
Conference Proceedings Available
The following proceedings are available from the Colorado
School of Mines Office of Special Programs and Continuing
Education.
All prices are **postpaid** within the U.S. Contact us for
outside U.S. shipping prices.
***A copy of the table of contents of each volume can be
e-mailed. Contact the address below.***
1) 4th Tunnel Detection Symposium on Subsurface
Exploration Technology, April 1993, Denver, Colorado
$25.00
2) Third International Symposium on Mine Mechanization
and Automation, June 1995, Golden, Colorado
(2 volumes) $50 per volume
3) Rocky Mountain Symposium on Environmental Issues
in Oil and Gas Operations, Golden, Colorado
1994 and 1995 conference proceedings available.
1994 edition: $25.00; 1995 edition: $50.00
4) North American Tunneling ‘94, Conference and Exhibition
June 6-9, 1994, Golden, Colorado $25
5) International Workshop on Underwater Welding of Marine
Structures, Dec. 7-9, 1994, New Orleans, Louisiana $20
6) 15th International Conference on Ground Control in Mining
August 13-15, 1996. $100
Credit cards and purchase orders accepted. For further details
contact the Earth Science Resource Center of the Colorado
School of Mines at: jproud@mines.edu
Visit our home page on the World Wide Web at:
http://www.mines.edu/Outreach/Cont_Ed/esrc.shtml
Subject: Re: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: wshill@world.std.com (Wayne S. Hill)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:33:33 GMT
On 3 Nov 1996 01:13:14 GMT, Walter Driedger said...
>
>There are two kinds of engineers: Professional Engineers
>and unprofessional engineers.
> And you are wondering which you want to be?
There are two kinds of people: those who perform binary
categorization and those that don't.
Your remark is over the top. I am not a PE, but would not be afraid to
hold up my credentials, capabilities, and professional performance to
anyone's scrutiny. The fact that I, and the majority of other
engineers, have decided not to join your club is irrelevant to whether
we can be called professional.
If the registration process guarantees that every PE upholds standards
of capability, ethics, and professionalism (which would be truly
miraculous), it says nothing about those who have not registered. The
number of unregistered engineers that could successfully become PE's
vastly outnumbers those who have. Impuning the professionalism of that
majority does a disservice to the profession.
-Wayne
_______________________________________________________________________
Dr. Wayne S. Hill wshill@world.std.com
Foster-Miller, Inc. ***Disclaimed*** 617-684-4228
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: RE: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: nrhblack@condate.com
Date: 3 Nov 1996 20:30:43 GMT
On Tuesday, October 29, 1996, Michael Covington wrote...
> Is there a clear criterion for when a PE license is needed?
Yes, it's the law (codes and rules). Each State has its own, they vary.
> Like many other software consultants and technical writers, I am
troubled
> by a more basic question: What, according to the law, is "engineering"?
> Clearly a person needs a PE certification to design bridges or large
> mechanical systems... how about small electronic circuits with
essentially
> no safety hazards? Equipment used only at one's own site? Works of
art,
> such as sculptures?
Definitions vary also. You can safely assume that any form of electronic
circuit design is Engineering. As to whether a license is needed that
depends
State law and the circumstances. Any circuit designed by an employee of
one Corporation where the design is created for (to be owned by) another
Corporation requires a P.E. license in most States.
But an in-house design usually does not.
> I understand, separately from this, that a person not holding a license
> must not use the title "engineer" or represent himself as equivalent
> to a PE.
Use of Engineering titles is a totally separate issue from practise of
Engineering.
Henry Black P.E. (Calif.)
Subject: Search for Technical Experts (3)
From: heerings@worldaccess.nl
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 96 20:45:19 GMT
SEARCH FOR TECHNICAL EXPERTS
Product and/or process development requires specific information, knowledge
and/or experience. Specific information/knowledge/experience is mostly not easy
to track down, even not in centres for technology. One reason is that specific
knowledge/experience is mostly linked to individuals, the experts on a
specific topic.
In order to further the search for specific knowledge I am setting up a
database that refers to experts on all kinds of technological topics.
Companies that look for specific knowledge/experience can use the database
to get in touch with the needed expert.
If you are an expert and you like to be included in the database, please
send me (by email) the following information:
KEYWORDS describing your expertise:
* Field of technology, e.g. chemistry: 1 keyword.
* Application in terms of product/process, e.g. thermocouples: 1 - 3 keyword(s).
* Application in terms of industry/activity, e.g. refinery: 1 - 3 keyword(s).
* Description of your specific expertise: preferably 3 keywords, e.g.
degradation, carbonmonoxide, misinterpretation; if not possible: a small text
is allowable.
Some Rules:
-For the selection of keywords you may use your own terminology.
-A keyword may consist of more than one word.
-Use the above description for each separate expertise you offer.
-If you feel the use of keywords is too restrictive for a good description,
your expertise is probably not specific but general.
PERSONAL details:
* Name.
* Name of company you represent (if applicable).
* Email address and/or facsimile number.
* Country/State.
Confidentiality: My name is J.H. Heerings (Dieren, The Netherlands). I am
writing from a personal interest and as an individual (no company is involved).
The above information will not be used for mailing lists or otherwise; only for
the abovementioned database. I will contact you at the moment the database will
start to run and is accessible to industry.
The information should be emailed to: heerings@worldaccess.nl
Subject: 3rd Darex Drill Doctor® Winner Announced
From: anderson
Date: 3 Nov 1996 20:34:06 GMT
Drill Doctor® Winner
The third winner of the weekly random drawing for a Drill Doctor®
Precision Drill Bit Sharpener is Charles Ryerson of Hanover, NH.
Charles comments: "I am constructing a 2.5" to the foot live steam
shay in my home shop. A Drill Dr. would be of great benefit in keeping
the many drills I use sharp and accurate. The reviews of the Drill
Dr. in the metalworking \ newsgroup are very good - they are a
no-nonsense group of reviewers. That, and the reputation of Darex,
should mean that it is a fine product."
The final drawing for a Drill Doctor® happens on Wednesday night
November 7, 1996. If you’ve already entered, you’re eligible to win. If you have not entered yet, this is you last opportunity. Enter to win a free Drill Doctor ® Precision Drill Bit Sharpener at http://www.drilldr.com or at http://www.drilldr.com/winner.htm .
Cordially,
Curt Anderson
Subject: MONTHLY POSTING: Steam-List
From: miles@mail.utexas.edu (Miles Abernathy)
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 20:31:39 -0500
The STEAM-LIST is a free Internet mailing list intended for discussion of
steam generators, piping and equipment. Boilers, boiler feed pumps, water
treatment, corrosion and scaling, valves, PRV's, traps, turbines, flow
metering, heating coils, condensate pumps, district heating, system
modeling, that sort of stuff. Practical discussions, rather than
theoretical or academic ones, are the intent of this list.
If you have a question about the industrial use of steam, someone among
our 270+ subscribers will have an answer!
To subscribe to the list, send the request
subscribe STEAM-LIST YourFirstName YourLastName
in the body of a mail message to
listproc@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
The list processor software will reject requests that do not contain a
personal name, e.g. "Johnathan Doe".
--
Miles Abernathy, miles@mail.utexas.edu, http://klingon.util.utexas.edu/
Subject: ASME Code Seminar
From: "CASTI Publishing Inc."
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 18:30:38 -0800
There will be a free 1-day seminar covering ASME Section II (Materials),
Section IX (Welding) and B31.3 (Process Piping) held in Houston on
Friday Nov. 22. Deadline for registering is Nov. 15. There is no cost
for this seminar, but only registered attendees will be permitted to
attend. Seating is limited.
This seminar is sponsored by Brown Book Shop, CodeWest Training, and
CASTI Publishing Inc.
For more information e-mail: castipub@compusmart.ab.ca with the subject:
ASME Seminar. A reply will be returned by e-mail only, so please include
your e-mail address.
Subject: Position for Composites Research Engineer/Scientist
From: Mark Battley
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:09:20 +1200
Composites Research Engineer/Scientist
Industrial Research Limited is New Zealand's leading industrial and
engineering research institution with sites in Auckland, Wellington
and Christchurch. The company provides scientific and technological
research and development services to industry with an emphasis on the
manufacturing, natural products processing and energy sectors.
Activities include multi-year government funded research programmes,
joint R&D; projects with industry partners and industrial consultancy
and testing.
A position is available for a research engineer or scientist to join
its composites engineering research group at the company's Auckland
site. The current home of yachting's America's Cup, Auckland is New
Zealand's largest city and offers a mild climate with excellent
lifestyle opportunities.
The successful applicant will contribute to ongoing research
programmes, industry R&D; projects and consultancy services. This will
involve analytical and numerical modelling of composites, experimental
verification of composite material and structural behaviour, and
liaising with industrial clients.
Current composites related research projects include characterisation
of compressive and buckling failure mechanisms, modelling and
measurement of dynamic behaviour of composite marine vessels and
structures, application of acoustic emission monitoring as a
non-destructive evaluation method, and development of advanced design
methodologies for yacht spars.
Relevant postgraduate qualifications and/or appropriate research
experience, expertise in theoretical modelling of fibre reinforced
polymer composites, experience in finite element based structural
analysis and well developed written and oral communication skills are
desirable attributes.
Salary will be commensurate with qualifications and experience.
For further information contact Dr Mark Battley, ph +649 3034116, fax
+649 3070618 or email m.battley@irl.cri.nz.
Applications close Monday 25 November and should be sent with the
names of two referees to: Raewyn Steel, Industrial Research Limited,
PO Box 2225, Auckland, New Zealand.
Subject: Re: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: Paul Skoczylas
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 08:10:52 -0700
Walter Driedger wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:32:44 -0400, Yan Seiner, PE (cardinal@hargray.com)
> >said...
> >>
> >>Software to my knowledge has never been the direct cause of a fatality.
> >>If ever there was a fatality due to software failure, it ws because
> >>someone did not take the time to learn about the limitations of the
> >>software and maybe did not perform a sanity check on the results.
> >>
> >>In other words, the person who built the system should have insured that
> >>the software results are correct; or in the case of a control system,
> >>built the system so that mechanical limitations come into play before
> >>anyone is injured.
> >>
>
> While I can't think of a case in which a software error caused a
> fatality let me assure you it is quite possible.
I think the point being made is that it's not the software that is
reponsible, but the person who designed the software.
-Paul
Subject: Re: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: briang@sr.hp.com (Brian Gross)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 17:55:36 GMT
Ken Gough (kgough@localnet.com) wrote:
: In article <55dc3q$549@canyon.sr.hp.com>, briang@sr.hp.com (Brian Gross) wrote:
: > What I wanted
: > to say was "If the developer has a PE available, either on staff or
: > hired as a consultant..."
: >
: > Thanks for clarifying my post.
: >
: >
: > Brian P. Gross, P.E.
: I don't want to pick nits, but this is pretty important to a lot of
: developers and others who build things. The PE who seals the work cannot be
: either the developer (or builder) or an employee. New York will not seek
: out these violations, but will prosecute them if brought to their
: attention.
In the State of California the releveant section of the P.E. Act reads as
follows:
6731.3 Construction Project Management Services
A registered civil engineer may also offer to practice, either in a public
or private capacity, construction project management services, including,
but not limited to, construction project design review and evaluation,
construction mobilization and supervision, bid evaluation, project
scheduling, cost-benefit analysis, claims review and negotiation, and
general management and administration of a construction project.
This seems to indicate that in California, at least, a PE can act as
a developer and seal the plans himself/herself and another section
reads as follows:
6738. Engineering business - business names
(a) This chapter does not prohibit one or mor civil, electrical or
mechanical engineers from practicing or offering to practice
[...] if all of the following conditions are met:
(1) A civil, electrical, or mechanical engineer currently registered
in the state is an owner, part owner, or officer in charge of
the engineering practice of the business.
[...]
This seems to indicate that a PE who seals the plans can be an employee
so long as they are considered the "officer in charge of the engineering
practice of the business". (You have to trust me that I didn't [...]
any vital language.)
I think this exchange points up that differences exist between states.
The important lesson here is that we (P.E's) should be acquainted
with the laws in the states we're registered in and we should ask
for clarification from the relevant boards when the interpretation
isn't clear. For instance, I'd call California about this question
since I'm not entirely convinced my interpretation of the act is correct.
Anyway, I don't think it's picking nits. Thanks for calling this into
question.
Brian P. Gross, P.E.
Subject: Re: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: pgs@adan.kingston.net (Peter Skelton)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:51:54 GMT
Paul Skoczylas wrote:
>Walter Driedger wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:32:44 -0400, Yan Seiner, PE (cardinal@hargray.com)
>> >said...
>> >>
>> >>Software to my knowledge has never been the direct cause of a fatality.
>> >>If ever there was a fatality due to software failure, it ws because
>> >>someone did not take the time to learn about the limitations of the
>> >>software and maybe did not perform a sanity check on the results.
>> >>
>> >>In other words, the person who built the system should have insured that
>> >>the software results are correct; or in the case of a control system,
>> >>built the system so that mechanical limitations come into play before
>> >>anyone is injured.
>> >>
>>
>> While I can't think of a case in which a software error caused a
>> fatality let me assure you it is quite possible.
>I think the point being made is that it's not the software that is
>reponsible, but the person who designed the software.
I posted a bunch of software related fatalities (going back to piston
aircraft) a few weeks ago. It is always possible to blame an individual
(although I can think of lots of situations where the individual who might
carry the blame, like the designer of the Titanic, could not possibly avert
the disaster.) This is true in any field, not just software or engineering.
--
Peter Skelton
Skelton & Associates
613/634-0230
pgs@adan.kingston.net
Subject: Re: Fracture Mechanics software
From: "Gary E. Mosier"
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:43:24 -0500
John Borg wrote:
> The price of NASA/FLAGRO is;
> DOMESTIC:
> DOCUMENTATION PRICE: $142.00 PROGRAM PRICE: $2000.00
> INTERNATIONAL:
> DOCUMENTATION PRICE: $284.00 PROGRAM PRICE: $4000.00
>
> Available for just about any platform. IMHO kind of a high
> price for domestic buyers, considering we funded the
> development with our tax dollars!
Even more bizarre is that I have to pay to get it from COSMIC. I'm a
civil servant, working for the agency that developed the code. We make
this arrangement to spin-off our technology to the public and private
sectors so we can justify, or at least re-pay to some extent, the
tax-dollars that went into the development. Now, if I want the code, I
have to take more tax-dollars to get it, just to feed some middle-man.
Well, technically I would just be depriving someone else, or even
myself, not taking "more" money from the taxpayers. We operate on a
fixed budget and spend every last penny of it every year whether we need
it or not. Heaven forbid that we find ways to save and spend less than
our annual budget -- we'd simply get less from congress in the future.
Subject: Need data on concrete under dynamic loads
From: kleitch@intergate.dot.gov (Kenneth R. Leitch)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 18:33:32 GMT
I need help in obtaining a good set of experimental data of a
reinforced concrete member (i.e. a beam, slab, disk, etc.) under dynamic
loading. The intended purpose is to use the test to calibrate a finite
element program so that a test reinforced concrete bridge deck can be
examined under impact loading. The finite element program that I intend
to use is LS-DYNA3D.
Such data on dynamic testing of reinforced concrete have been
hard for me to obtain. I believe that someone has probably done such
testing for a thesis or dissertation or for a textbook or for a
government agency. I need your help to locate such tests.
Please reply to kenneth.leitch@fhwa.dot.gov or call me at (703)
285-2494 or fax at (703) 285-2679. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Kenneth R. Leitch
Graduate Research Fellow
Federal Highway Administration
McLean, VA
Subject: Re: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: "Yan Seiner, PE"
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 09:37:10 -0500
Jimmy Emerson wrote:
>
> Finally, someone with intelligence posts to this thread. I will uncheck
> the subscribe to this newsgroup after this post. I submit that the
> engineering profession is much more complicated than any of you are
> willing to admit and that your motives for the issues you have brought up
> in this thread have to do with job security more than anything else. I
> cannot believe the small minds that have made up many of these posts. Go
> ahead and flame me, but I am entitled to my opinion just as the rest of
> you. I thought this newsgroup would have soemthing to do with
> engineering safety, but instead I find a bunch of people who are not even
> sure what an engineer is or at least agree with what an engineer is.
> Look in the dictionary.
You are absolutely correct - restricting the use of the term "engineer",
at least in the Civil field, has everything to do with job security. I
have to charge $75/hr, minimum, just to make ends meet. I have an
investment of over $10K in software, another $15K in hardware, and
thousands more in training and upgrades every year to stay current.
I do this so that I can provide solid design that works, not just in the
near term, but 10, 20, even fifty years in the future. That costs money
- lots of it.
I can't compete with someone who choses to do poor quality design, and
charges $25/hour. Just look around you at the mess many developers have
made using short-sighted, get the money and run approaches to site
design. Shellfish bed closings, dead lakes and bays, unswimmable rivers
- all these are the results of poor engineering.
Yes, I want the term "engineer" controlled. ONLY those with the
training and the responsibility should be able to use the term. Bad
engineers will weed themselves out - they will be sued, stripped of
their licenses, and change careers. This can only be done with the help
of state or federal law. Our profession is not self-policing.
Yan Seiner
--
+------------------------------------------------------+
| Cardinal Engineering, Inc. |
| Environmentally sensitive design and water quality |
| modeling for the responsible developer |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Subject: Re: WARNING to all NON-LICENSED ENGINEERS
From: "Yan Seiner, PE"
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 09:46:02 -0500
Walter Driedger wrote:
>
> It seems you are not aware of process control engineering.
> That's what I do. Among other things, I design Emergency
> Shutdown systems for oil refineries, and Burner Management
> Systems for furnaces large enough to torch entire neighborhoods.
> While I can't think of a case in which a software error caused a
> fatality let me assure you it is quite possible. The flames from
> one inadequately designed ESD system that I know of could be
> seen from 9m miles away. (Thats 140 km.)
>
> What mechanical limitations should come into play when a
> 48" gas pipeline, 2000 miles long ruptures? Its all under
> software control.
I got a lot of replies on that one.
I admit I was not thinking specifically of control systems; but I think
my point is still valid in many respects.
Too often, control systems are installed because they are more
economical than designing a mechanical limit. And yes, a failed control
system can harm people. But - maybe the answer is a radical re-think of
the gas pipeline? Or oil tanker?
Sometimes we need to step back and look at the holistic scenario, like
Goethe and his color theory. This can lead to a radical redesign of the
entire system to make it simpler and more reliable.
I've done this many times, especially in writing code.
Yan Seiner, PE
--
+------------------------------------------------------+
| Cardinal Engineering, Inc. |
| Environmentally sensitive design and water quality |
| modeling for the responsible developer |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Subject: Re: Secondhand Equip In GB
From: caschu@ix.netcom.com(Cynthia Schuster)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 19:39:14 GMT
In <552e36$9hi@cn1.hw.ac.uk> L.E.Bailey@hw.ac.uk writes:
>
>I need to find any companies in Great Britain that supply secondhand
lab
>equipment, in particular microscopes. If anyone out there knows of
any such
>firm could you please mail me the address/www add/ e-mail etc as I
only
>rarely plough through these groups.
>Cheers!
>
>Louise
>
>L.E.Bailey@hw.ac.uk
>
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