Newsgroup sci.engr.surveying 3923

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Tom Turton wrote:
> 
> Altamese Jackenthal wrote:
> >
> > Educational Testing Service (ETS) is looking for people to evaluate a
> > tutorial for a Reverse Polish Notation Scientific Calculator.  ETS will
> > pay $20 for an hour of your time.  To participate you must (1) regularly
> > use a Reverse Polish Notation Scientific Calculator; and (2) be willing
> > to visit ETS's office in Princeton NJ between January 21 and January 31.
> 
> I'm curious as to why ETS would want people who REGULARLY use RPN
> to test a tutorial on RPN calculators.  Shouldn't they test how
> well their turortial works for people UNaccustomed to RPN?
> 
> ---Tom (I hate parenthetical statements, especially in
>         my calculators!) Turton
The best tutorial I ever saw for RPN was the one that HP put out in its
original info packet for the HP-35 back in 1972. They included a paper
cutout of the HP-35 so you could punch the numbers on the paper keyboard
and play lick you had the calculator. I could finally afford one 2 years
later.
Dave Pearce

Altamese Jackenthal wrote:
> 
> Educational Testing Service (ETS) is looking for people to evaluate a
> tutorial for a Reverse Polish Notation Scientific Calculator.  ETS will
> pay $20 for an hour of your time.  To participate you must (1) regularly
> use a Reverse Polish Notation Scientific Calculator; and (2) be willing
> to visit ETS's office in Princeton NJ between January 21 and January 31.
I'm curious as to why ETS would want people who REGULARLY use RPN
to test a tutorial on RPN calculators.  Shouldn't they test how
well their turortial works for people UNaccustomed to RPN?
---Tom (I hate parenthetical statements, especially in
        my calculators!) Turton

Altamese Jackenthal  wrote:
>Educational Testing Service (ETS) is looking for people to evaluate a
>tutorial for a Reverse Polish Notation Scientific Calculator.  ETS will
>pay $20 for an hour of your time.  To participate you must (1) regularly
>use a Reverse Polish Notation Scientific Calculator; and (2) be willing
>to visit ETS's office in Princeton NJ between January 21 and January 31.
>If you qualify and are interested in participating, please contact Jutta
>Levin at 609-734-1275 (jlevin@ets.org) or Jim Fife 609-734-1235
>(jfife@ets.org).
I'll help out! I use my HP35 every day. Please send airline ticket.
David Gibson
 Microconsultants http://www.microconsultants.com
Makers of SPLat easy to use programmable controller
    Visit our site for free software for SPLat
        and Statistical Process Control
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What we can tell engineering students about engineering surveying is 
that no measurement is exact.  This is one of the first lessons to be 
learned by a student of any discipline of surveying.
I believe that engineering students should be taught the basics of 
plane surveying, coordinate geometry, and basic differential 
leveling, and to leave property and control work to licensed 
professional surveyors.
In South Carolina only a professional land surveyor can perform 
property boundary surveys.

Professional Publications has a section of its web online catalog
for land surveying exam preparation. Except for states that test
on their own specific laws, the LS exams are the same in all states.
Maybe other people can provide you with additional links. 
Good luck!
-- 
Michael Lindeburg, PE, Publisher
Professional Publications, Inc., http://www.ppi2pass.com
(415) 593-9119 ext. 23
"Your comments, suggestions, and (ugh!) criticisms are always welcome."

<>
I must not be a careful observer; I've never seen any star appear to 
move in a "figure-eight".  I think if I did I would prepare myself 
for the hereafter.
Azimuth can be easily determined by sighting Polaris at any hour.  
One merely needs to scale his/her position off a quad map to 
determine local time.  Time keeping errors of less than a couple of 
seconds will have a negligible effect for most applications.
I was not aware that anyone would still try to find himself setup 
with the star on the reticle at the precise time of elongation.  
Other than the inconvenience of having to plan your work around that 
magic moment, how can you make multiple observations?
At higher altitudes and on a good day at sea-level Polaris can be 
found in daylight.

Subject: Final CFP: Intl Conf EANN '97 in Stockholm, June 1997
Abstracts for short papers (upto four pages) may still be submitted,
but please do so soon.
International Conference on
Engineering Applications of Neural Networks
(EANN '97)
Stockholm, Sweden
16-18 June 1997
Final Call for Papers
The conference is a forum for presenting  the latest results on neural
network  applications in technical fields. The  applications may be in
any  engineering or  technical   field, including  but not limited  to
systems engineering,   mechanical      engineering, robotics,  process
engineering, metallurgy,   pulp   and paper technology,   aeronautical
engineering, computer  science,  machine  vision, chemistry,  chemical
engineering,   physics,    electrical  engineering, electronics, civil
engineering,  geophysical sciences, biomedical systems,  environmental
engineering.
Abstracts   of  one page  (about  400    words)   should  be  sent  to
eann97@kth.se by  ***  21 December 1996 ***  by  e-mail in plain ASCII
format. Please mention two to four keywords, and whether you prefer it
to be a short paper or  a full paper and whether  you will prefer oral
or poster  presentation. The short  papers will be  4 pages in length,
and full papers may be upto  8 pages.  Notification of acceptance will
be sent around   15 January.  Submissions will   be  reviewed and  the
number of full papers will be very limited. For information on earlier
EANN conferences see the www pages at
http://www.abo.fi/~abulsari/EANN95.html and
http://www.abo.fi/~abulsari/EANN96.html
Organising of a few special tracks has been confirmed so far: 
Computer Vision (J. Heikkonen, Jukka.Heikkonen@jrc.it), 
Control Systems (E. Tulunay, Ersin-Tulunay@metu.edu.tr), 
Hybrid Systems (D. Tsaptsinos, D.Tsaptsinos@kingston.ac.uk), 
Mechanical Engineering (A. Scherer, Andreas_Scherer@hp.com), 
Biomedical Systems (G. Dorffner, georg@ai.univie.ac.at),
Process Engineering (R. Baratti, baratti@ndchem3.unica.it)
Authors  are encouraged   to  send   the abstracts  directly   to  the
organisers of the  special tracks, instead  of eann97@kth.se, if  your
paper is relevant to one of the topics mentioned above.
Advisory board
J. Hopfield (USA) 	A. Lansner (Sweden) 	G. Sjodin (Sweden)
Organising committee 
A. Bulsari (Finland) 	H. Liljenstrom (Sweden) D. Tsaptsinos (UK) 
International program committee
G. Baier (Germany) 	R. Baratti (Italy) 	S. Cho (Korea) 
T. Clarkson (UK) 	J. DeMott (USA) 	G. Dorffner (Austria) 	
W. Duch (Poland) 	G. Forsgren (Sweden) 	A. Gorni (Brazil) 	
J. Heikkonen (Italy) 	F. Norlund (Sweden) 	A. Ruano (Portugal) 	
A. Scherer (Germany)	C. Schizas (Cyprus) 	J. Thibault (Canada) 
E. Tulunay (Turkey) 	
Electronic mail is  not absolutely reliable, so if  you have not heard
from the conference   secretariat after sending your  abstract, please
contact us again. You should receive an abstract number in a couple of
days after the submission.
International Conference on
Engineering Applications of Neural Networks
(EANN '97)
Stockholm, Sweden
16-18 June 1997 
Registration information
Registration form can be picked up from the www (or can be sent to you
by e-mail)  and can  be  returned after  the conference  fee  has been
sent.  A registration form sent  before  the payment of the conference
fee  is   not  valid  and therefore  will  not   be  stored.  For more
information, please ask eann97@kth.se.
The conference fee will be SEK 4148 (SEK  3400 excluding VAT) until 28
February, and SEK 4978  (SEK   4080 excluding  VAT) after that.    The
conference fee includes   attendance   to  the  conference  and    the
proceedings. If your organisation (university or company or institute)
has a   VAT registration  from  a  European Union country   other than
Finland, then your VAT number should be mentioned on the bank transfer
as well  as the registration form,  and VAT need  not be  added to the
conference fee.
At least one author of each accepted paper should register by 15 March
to ensure that the paper will be included in the proceedings.
The  correct conference fee amount  should be received  in the account
number 207  799  342,  Svenska Handelsbanken  International, Stockholm
branch. It can be paid by bank transfer (with all expenses paid by the
sender) to  "EANN   Conference".  To   avoid  extra  bureaucracy   and
correction of the amount at the  registration desk, make sure that you
have taken care of the bank transfer fees.  It is essential to mention
the name of the participant with the bank transfer. If you need to pay
it in another way  (bank drafts, Eurocheques,  postal order; no credit
cards), please  contact  us  at  eann97@kth.se.  Invoicing  will  cost 
SEK 100.

dosgood wrote:
> 
> In article <1996Dec25.121026@axp1>
> scottcr@wku.edu writes:
> 
> > here could I get almanac data for Polaris so that I can establish a
> > north-south line?
> There is a short-cut method.  Shoot Polaris at elongation.  If you
> observe it for a while (couple of hours)it will have an apparent motion
> in a figure eight pattern.  Sight on polais at the upper limit of
> motion or the lower limit of motion (top center or bottom center of the
> 8) and you will be on true north with out having to bother with
> almanacs/time calculations.
http://www.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/astronmy/aa-54.zip
Steve Moshiers astronomical ephemeris program is an extremely accurate
program for computing almanac data. I have used it many times for
exactly this purpose. Just recently I used it to compute the position of
Polaris for checking an azimuth gyro theodolite. The zip file contains
the executable for running under msdos as well as the full ANSI C source
code so that you can compile it on almost any platform. I have used it
on both PC and various UNIX machines.
      Stan Thomas

In article <5b0lrs$gue@post.gsfc.nasa.gov>
           dosgood@proxima.gsfc.nasa.gov "dosgood" writes:
> In article <1996Dec25.121026@axp1>
> scottcr@wku.edu writes:
> 
> > here could I get almanac data for Polaris so that I can establish a
> > north-south line?
> There is a short-cut method.  Shoot Polaris at elongation.  If you
> observe it for a while (couple of hours)it will have an apparent motion
> in a figure eight pattern.  Sight on polais at the upper limit of
> motion or the lower limit of motion (top center or bottom center of the
> 8) and you will be on true north with out having to bother with
> almanacs/time calculations.
> 
Surely its easier to get the figures
A couple of hours of observations are a bit tedious when five minutes in 
the cold and ten in the office would suffice.
How accurate does the original poster want his line. I have observed
both ends of the pogo stick shadow (sun), and with a GPS fix to a 100m 
have calculated the bearing of the shadow to give an azimuth.
Should be good to a couple of degrees at worst.
Polaris is within a degree of north all the time, so maybe he does not need
the almanac if his accuraccy is less than that.
If accuraccy is important, then get the precise almanc data and do it
properly
-- 
Regards
Mark Johnson

I have a number of conversion tables in my possesion that show the
conversion from chain to metres but they do not have sufficient decimal
places.
Could anyone possibly help me with a conversion factor to 12 decimal
places.
Thanks
Dominic
Civil Engineer from South Africa

>    < apparent motion in a figure eight pattern.>>
> 
It must be easier to get the almanac figures
Two hours of observations is the difficult option isn't it.
-- 
Regards
Mark Johnson

dosgood wrote:
> 
> In article <1996Dec25.121026@axp1>
> scottcr@wku.edu writes:
> 
> > here could I get almanac data for Polaris so that I can establish a
> > north-south line?
> There is a short-cut method.  Shoot Polaris at elongation.  If you
> observe it for a while (couple of hours)it will have an apparent motion
> in a figure eight pattern.  Sight on polais at the upper limit of
> motion or the lower limit of motion (top center or bottom center of the
> 8) and you will be on true north with out having to bother with
> almanacs/time calculations.
  Polaris apparent motion is circular around the celestial pole with a
radius of roughly 1 degree.  At the top is referred to as upper
CULMINATION, it's eastern or western most positions are referred to as
elongation.  An ephemeris is still needed to find out when these events
occur, and for elongation what azimuth polaris is at during elongation.
  You could theoretically observe and wait for upper or lower
culmination but depending on the time of year this may take 12 hours to
arrive.  The method is mentioned in a number of texts where a pointer
star is used to approximate when it is when that star and polaris both
are on a vertical from your point.  There is still a slight correction
to that.  In general an ephemeris would be needed to know exactly when
culmination occured.  If you are using this to align a satellite dish,
this may be adequate, but for surveying purposes it may not be.
  To observe at elongation it is more convenient to compute when that is
at your location then you can take a number of pointings as the
horizontal motion is rather small over the period of a couple of minutes
while the star is moving more rapidly up or down.  To compute the actual
azimuth at elongation, will again require ephemeris information for
survey purposes.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry L. Wahl            Cadastral Survey BBS 703-440-1761
jl-wahl@access.digex.net          jerry.wahl@cadastral.com
 "Certainty of land location has value."

BRADFORD & CONNING wrote:
> 
> I have a number of conversion tables in my possesion that show the
> conversion from chain to metres but they do not have sufficient decimal
> places.
> 
> Could anyone possibly help me with a conversion factor to 12 decimal
> places.
  Here in the U.S. the chain unit is/was used in the Public Land Surveys
and was defined as 66.0 U.S. Survey Feet.  The Survey Foot has been
replaced by the SI foot in common use in the U.S., however it is my
belief that the Chain is still defined here by the U.S. Survey foot. 
Not that it usually matters in practice, but it would make a difference
to the number of places you want it and what reference you are using.
  Since the SI foot is 3.2808 feet per meter exact, the chain - meters
based on SI foot
  is given by 3.2808/66 or 0.049709090909090909090909090909 get the
drift?  The inverse
  operation gives 20.117044623262618 etc.
  If defined by the U.S. Survey foot, the meter is defined as 39.37
inches and the factor
  for feet-meter conversions is 3937/1200 exact which comes out to
3.2808333333333333333
  going out forever.  So in this case over here the chain would be
0.0497095095095095095
  etc.
So the conversion in your jurisdiction for historical data reported in
chains, technically may relate to your historical definition of the
foot.
> Thanks
> Dominic
> Civil Engineer from South Africa
- jerry
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry L. Wahl            Cadastral Survey BBS 703-440-1761
jl-wahl@access.digex.net          jerry.wahl@cadastral.com
 "Certainty of land location has value."

"J. Anthony Cavell, PLS"  wrote:
>Dear Johan:
>As you have defined it, elevation would not change because to be
>elevation you have chosen MSL (or ANP) which is a (vertical) datum.
>--
>J. Anthony Cavell, PLS         _______              ______
>Vice President                /_____ /   / @ \     /____ /
>Navigation Electronics, Inc. /_____ /===(@ % @)===/____ /
>200 Toledo Drive            /______/     \ @ /   /_____/
>Lafayette, LA 70506                 "G P S m a n"
I have a related question:  If you are given lat/lon/alt_MSL in a
non-WGS84 datum, how do you find lat/lon/alt_ELLIPSE in WGS84?  Do you
need a geoid table for every datum?  All I have is the geoid table
from DMA TR 8350.2, which has geoid height as a function of WGS84
lat/lon.  But, I can't shift the datum to WGS84 because I don't have
alt_ELLIPSE of my point in my source datum.
Thanks,
-----------
Jeff Valine
jvaline@isle.net
http://www.isle.net/~jvaline

If you have read this message before, we are still looking for 
information on recovering drowning victims. 
My nephew, Cory Mullens is presumed to have drowned in Saratoga 
Lake on November 24, 1996 in Saratoga Lake in the NYS 
Adirondacks.  I have received many helpful letters, one in 
particular, from a writer in California.  He mentioned a person 
in the Syracuse, NY area who may have the laser equipment we are 
looking for to search the lake this Spring. I have not been able 
to reach him via Internet and his telephone is disconnected.
If you know of anyone who has sonar, side-scan sonar or laser 
equipment to use in searching deep water (up to 100') PLEASE 
write back.  
The snow is falling and the weather is too cold now but the 
family will continue to search this Spring with the assistance of 
the Adirondack Dog Rescue Organization and local officials.  We 
have also set up a fund in Cory's name and after he is located 
and if there is any money left it will be donated to the Lost and 
Missing Children Foundation.