Subject: ANNOUNCE Computer-Assisted Image Analysis & Measurement
From: dti-lhc@inet.uni-c.dk
Date: 16 Jan 1997 14:57:24 GMT
5TH EUROPEAN SHORT COURCE AND WORKSHOP
COMPUTER-ASSISTED
IMAGE ANALYSIS & MEASUREMENT
COPENHAGEN, 16TH-19TH JUNE 1997
Organized by:
Professor John C. Russ, Materials Science and
Engineering Department, N. C. State University, Author of
"Practical Stereology", "Computer-Assisted Microscopy",
and "The Image Processing Handbook".
Professor H. J. G. Gundersen, Stereological Research
Laboratory, University of Aarhus, Denmark. Gundersen is
the author of a number of papers and reviw articles on new
stereological methods.
M.Sc.E.E. Ulrik Skands, Course Manager, Centre of
Chemical Technology, Danish Technological Institute (DTI).
Course fee:
The fee for the 3 1/2 day seminar is DKK 9,000 for
registration prior to February 1st 1997, and DKK 10,500 after
that date. For students the fee is only DKK 7,500. The fee
covers meeting facilities, refreshment, lunch, and the course
material including the Image Processing Handbook and the
Image Processing Tool Kit on CD-ROM.
Information:
General information about the course is available from Ulrik
Skands:
Phone: +45 43 50 46 52; Fax: +45 43 50 46 99;
E-mail: sem@dti.dk
or from the following WWW-pages:
EU Web-page: http://evu.dti.dk/sem-dti.htm
US Web-page: http://vims.ncsu.edu/matsci/IPCourse.html
Subject: Re: Types of Surveys
From: tparsons@peak.org (Tyler Parsons)
Date: 18 Jan 1997 03:54:01 GMT
In article <32DF8F46.243@mindspring.com>, wendys@mindspring.com says...
>
>I have recently taken an office position in a Surveying firm and do not
>quite understand the basics of the business.
>
>I would like to be able to answer fundamental questions for clients
>without having to interupt one of the surveyors.
>
>I would like to know what the different types of surveys are, who would
>be ordering which and what the necessity for the survey is.
>
>Thank you for your time.
--
I can appreciate your wanting to know about types of surveys, but without
knowing anything about your firm, it is a little difficult to adequately
respond. I suggest you talk to your boss as s(he) may have ideas as to
how s(he) may want you to respond to clients. The surveyors in your office
would be the best source for information regarding what they do.
Basically, there are engineering, boundary, and control surveys (which may
apply to the previous two). Engineering surveys collect information to be
used by engineers for design, including location of existing buildings,
utilities, and existing ground elevations, or provide precise location for
construction of buildings, streets, tunnels, sewers, water lines, etc.
Boundary surveys locate property or ownership lines, or lay out new
boundaries such as in a subdivision. We usually locate existing monuments
or lines and set new monuments in conformity to applicable state or
judicial law.
Tyler Parsons PLS
Parsons Surveying, Corvallis, Oregon
WB7DDL USMA '68 http://www.peak.org/~parsont/
Ray Bradbury: "We are an impossibility in an impossible universe."
Subject: Re: Types of Surveys
From: magrls@netzone.com (Matthew A. Graham)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:03:39 MST
In article <32DF8F46.243@mindspring.com> Wendy Shenefiel writes:
>From: Wendy Shenefiel
>Subject: Types of Surveys
>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:40:06 -0500
>I have recently taken an office position in a Surveying firm and do not
>quite understand the basics of the business.
>I would like to be able to answer fundamental questions for clients
>without having to interupt one of the surveyors.
>I would like to know what the different types of surveys are, who would
>be ordering which and what the necessity for the survey is.
>Thank you for your time.
As the "fundamentals" of each survey are not always the same, clients or
potential clients should be talking to the surveyor. I'm not trying to
discourage your efforts, but with regards to answering any questions about
surveying, it should be done by people with the experience to do so.
Matthew A. Graham, R.L.S.
magrls@netzone.com
Subject: Re: SI unit conversion
From: Gene Nygaard
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:08:59 -0800
Jerry L. Wahl wrote:
> Since the SI foot is 3.2808 feet per meter exact, the chain - meters
> based on SI foot
> is given by 3.2808/66 or 0.049709090909090909090909090909 get the
> drift? The inverse
> operation gives 20.117044623262618 etc.
> There is no such thing as an SI foot. The definition of the foot adopted by the
standards laboratories of all the major countries using English units in 1959 was 1 foot
= 0.3048 metre, and when inverted this is not a terminating decimal. A chain based on
this foot is 20.1168 m exactly.
> If defined by the U.S. Survey foot, the meter is defined as 39.37
> inches and the factor
> for feet-meter conversions is 3937/1200 exact which comes out to
> 3.2808333333333333333
> going out forever. So in this case over here the chain would be
> 0.0497095095095095095
> etc.
No, it would be the metre is 0.049(095) U.S. survey chain, or 1 U.S. Survey chain is
20.11684023368... m (it takes a long time for this number to repeat the string of
digits).
The chain defined by the international foot is exactly 0.999998 times the chain
determined by the U.S. Survey foot.
Gene Nygaard
Subject: Re: Types of Surveys
From: stevers@ac.net (S. R. Sheffield)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:36:26 GMT
magrls@netzone.com (Matthew A. Graham) wrote:
>In article <32DF8F46.243@mindspring.com> Wendy Shenefiel writes:
>>From: Wendy Shenefiel
>>Subject: Types of Surveys
>>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:40:06 -0500
>>I have recently taken an office position in a Surveying firm and do not
>>quite understand the basics of the business.
>>I would like to be able to answer fundamental questions for clients
>>without having to interupt one of the surveyors.
>>I would like to know what the different types of surveys are, who would
>>be ordering which and what the necessity for the survey is.
>>Thank you for your time.
>As the "fundamentals" of each survey are not always the same, clients or
>potential clients should be talking to the surveyor. I'm not trying to
>discourage your efforts, but with regards to answering any questions about
>surveying, it should be done by people with the experience to do so.
>Matthew A. Graham, R.L.S.
>magrls@netzone.com
In North Carolina, the *fundamentals* are essentially the same. In
determining what kind of survey the client is asking for, you need to
determine what it is going to be used for.
A *boundary survey* or *loan survey* is essentially the same thing in
N. C. You have to survey the lot and locate all visible improvements,
easements, water courses, etc.
A *topography* is determining elevations over the property as well as
locating improvements, possibly individual trees if required by the
client.
A *control survey* is generally a survey used in aiding the
development of an aerial topography. This is usually required by the
aerial photography company and they will have their own requirements.
A *construction stake-out survey* is for laying out construction
projects and should always be discussed between the surveyour and
client. Sometimes the requirements are really varied from one client
to the next.
An *ALTA* survey is generally a higher precision survey that can have
different requests from the client and should be discussed between the
surveyor and client.
Wendy, after a little experience, there should be no problem in your
determining whether the client needs a topographic survey or boundary
survey. As with anything, the more experience, the more you will be
able to help the client, but if any question, call the surveyor.
I have notice in some discussions on the net that there are different
*levels* of surveys in other areas of the country. I'm not sure where
you are at so some of this may not be appropriate.
Steve
Take good advice...... even if it comes from a fool.
Subject: Re: Types of Surveys
From: stevers@ac.net (S. R. Sheffield)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:36:26 GMT
magrls@netzone.com (Matthew A. Graham) wrote:
>In article <32DF8F46.243@mindspring.com> Wendy Shenefiel writes:
>>From: Wendy Shenefiel
>>Subject: Types of Surveys
>>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:40:06 -0500
>>I have recently taken an office position in a Surveying firm and do not
>>quite understand the basics of the business.
>>I would like to be able to answer fundamental questions for clients
>>without having to interupt one of the surveyors.
>>I would like to know what the different types of surveys are, who would
>>be ordering which and what the necessity for the survey is.
>>Thank you for your time.
>As the "fundamentals" of each survey are not always the same, clients or
>potential clients should be talking to the surveyor. I'm not trying to
>discourage your efforts, but with regards to answering any questions about
>surveying, it should be done by people with the experience to do so.
>Matthew A. Graham, R.L.S.
>magrls@netzone.com
In North Carolina, the *fundamentals* are essentially the same. In
determining what kind of survey the client is asking for, you need to
determine what it is going to be used for.
A *boundary survey* or *loan survey* is essentially the same thing in
N. C. You have to survey the lot and locate all visible improvements,
easements, water courses, etc.
A *topography* is determining elevations over the property as well as
locating improvements, possibly individual trees if required by the
client.
A *control survey* is generally a survey used in aiding the
development of an aerial topography. This is usually required by the
aerial photography company and they will have their own requirements.
A *construction stake-out survey* is for laying out construction
projects and should always be discussed between the surveyour and
client. Sometimes the requirements are really varied from one client
to the next.
An *ALTA* survey is generally a higher precision survey that can have
different requests from the client and should be discussed between the
surveyor and client.
Wendy, after a little experience, there should be no problem in your
determining whether the client needs a topographic survey or boundary
survey. As with anything, the more experience, the more you will be
able to help the client, but if any question, call the surveyor.
I have notice in some discussions on the net that there are different
*levels* of surveys in other areas of the country. I'm not sure where
you are at so some of this may not be appropriate.
Steve
Take good advice...... even if it comes from a fool.
Subject: Re: Anybody using C&G; Survey?
From: eugarps@ibm.net (Bill Sprague)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:42:59 GMT
On 14 Jan 1997 12:52:52 -0500, dwshafer@mtu.edu (David W. Shafer)
wrote:
> I am wondering if anybody is using C&G; Survey could tell me what
>they think about it instead of just hearing what the vendors have to say
>about their own software. I am really interested in combined CADD / COGO
>systems and looking for something that is realatiely intuative to learn,
>stable as a software platform, and produces quality results in
>calculations and graphical output forms. You are welcome to respond in
>email or just post your feelings here.
David,
A friend/client of mine uses C&G; and loves it but is now looking for a
product which interfaces better with CADD. I've used his C&G; and can
assure you it's NOT intuitive.
Best,
Bill
William T. Sprague II, PE, PLS, M.ACSE
Subject: Re: Civil Engineering students
From: tsblue@longleaf.com (Thomas S. Blue)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:36:09 GMT
"R.A. Fuller" wrote:
>I am a Teaching Assistant for the University of Kansas Civil
>Engineering survey lab. CE 240 is intended to introduce civil
>engineering students to the basic concepts involved in surveying. I was
>wondering what top 10 (or 5 or 3 ...) things that you (the surveyor)
>would like a civil engineer to remember about basic surveying. I will
>post your replies on our web site http://www,engr.ukans.edu/~survey (or
>maybe link this news.group) and perhaps some student engineer will
>benefit from your advice.
> Thanx rfuller@engr.ukans.edu
When I taught Surveying 101 (and 102), I emphasized the unavoidable
presence of error in surveying as much as anything else. (It seems a
lot of RLSs don't understand the basis for error reduction, error
accumulation, and error avoidance!) I would explain that land
surveying is a specialized dicipline requiring experience and a
background in law and local history.
Good luck! (NCSU doesn't even teach surveying to CivEgr students
anymore - unless they are enrolled in construction engineering, which
is only about 5-10% of the CivEgr students). And you have to go out of
state (closest to us are TENN, VA, FLA) to get a four year degree in
Surveying. This will be the downfall of the profession...
my 2.7183 cents worth...
+
Thomas S. Blue - tsblue@longleaf.com - www.longleaf.com
Environmental Consulting and Engineering
PhD student - Civil Engineering & Soil Science
+
Subject: HELP USING HAND HELD GPS TO LOCATE NYS PLANE COORDINATES
From: delacorte@aol.com (Delacorte)
Date: 18 Jan 1997 17:47:13 GMT
HELP USING HAND HELD GPS TO LOCATE NYS PLANE COORDINATES
I am involved in a line of work that requires that I locate and inspect
parcels of land based on there location on a local county tax map. I have
to find approximately 400 parcels in a month long period, every year
(actually I am usually forced to narrow my search considerably). I
believe that I might be able to benefit greatly from using a hand held GPS
system like --- Trimble scout master, Garmin 12XL, Magellan Trailblazer
XL or other unit. I realize the accuracy of these units is limited, but
even getting to within say 50 meters would be of great help; to be within
say 10 meters would be much better.
Another issue I am facing is that the only coordinates I have are
based on the New York State Plane Coordinate System, so I will need to
convert these numbers to one of the other coordinate systems that these
hand held units use. I have gotten several suggestions for programs to do
this including "NAD CON" and "CORPS CON" from the army core of engineers
(I'm told I may be able to download these programs for free, though I
don't know from where), as well as a program from Blue Marble called the
"Geographic Calculator".
If any one has any suggestions about what kind of hardware and software
might be most practical for my situation ( would like to keep my costs
around $500) would be VERY GRATEFUL for your advise. Please E mail me
directly and if you wouldn't mind me calling please send a telephone
number. Thank you very much.
Mark Delacorte Delacorte@aol.com (914) 338-7027
Subject: Re: Civil Engineering students
From: n9649893@scooter.cc.wwu.edu (Paul Kunkel)
Date: 18 Jan 97 22:17:50 GMT
tsblue@longleaf.com (Thomas S. Blue) writes:
>"R.A. Fuller" wrote:
>>I am a Teaching Assistant for the University of Kansas Civil
>>Engineering survey lab. CE 240 is intended to introduce civil
>>engineering students to the basic concepts involved in surveying. I was
>>wondering what top 10 (or 5 or 3 ...) things that you (the surveyor)
>>would like a civil engineer to remember about basic surveying. I will
>>post your replies on our web site http://www,engr.ukans.edu/~survey (or
>>maybe link this news.group) and perhaps some student engineer will
>>benefit from your advice.
>> Thanx rfuller@engr.ukans.edu
>When I taught Surveying 101 (and 102), I emphasized the unavoidable
>presence of error in surveying as much as anything else.
That's the one I was going to suggest. Yes, all measurements are in
error. Once we get over the hurdle of accepting that fact, we must decide
what error is tolerable. Too many of us like say that only the highest
order of precision will do. This is an easy answer, but not a practical
solution.
Here is one bad example. I once was instructed to use second-order
control leveling to tie in several river staff gauges. They were rods,
graduated in tenths of feet, and bolted to the side of a bridge pier.
Usually the water level had to be read from a distance of several hundred
feet, with waves, branches, and ice rafts crashing against the gauge. It
could only be read accurately to the nearest half-foot, but someone
decided that I should use twice as much time and get pin-point accuracy
on the elevation.
I don't want to start one of those idiot-supervisor threads. My
point is only that there is such a thing as "good enough." Your students
should understand that there is error, they should realistically evaluate
their precision needs, and they should have some idea what it costs.
Also, they should not stand in front of the backsight.
Kunkel
