Mark Woodhead wrote: > I hope you can get past the problems you've had with specific mtn > bikers, and learn for yourself that many, if not most, are not crazed, > juvenile delinquents out to ruin your peaceful experience. Dream on. 100% of mountain bikers ride where it is inappropriate (off road). YOU can't even control your own fellow MTBers, so why should anyone else be expected to do so? The only sensible solution is to ban off-road biking. I am sure there must be some smokers that try not to impact nonsmokers, but that is not sufficient to justify allowing smoking in public areas. --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
Rod Adams wrote: > Does anyone have any reasonable answers that will pass the logic > test? > > Rod Adams Look, get out a basic thermodynamic book, look at the delta E between a solution and pure comps. Its that bloody simple. Gravity is one force involved, but the other is the delta C (concentration).Return to Top
doug h. wrote: > > In article <52e8pm$gjl@curly.cc.emory.edu>, > Lloyd R. ParkerReturn to Topwrote: > Also, there is no Federal law which requires anyone, professional > mechanic or DIYer, to fix automotive Freon leaks instead of just > re-charging. State and local laws may be different, of course. > > My information comes from an AC training manual provided by the MACS > (Mobile Air Conditioning Society), which quotes EPA regulations and > public statements. > You are almost correct, certain large quanity users and those that are part of certain industrial classification are required to do capture. It is an a miscommunication that repairs need to be performed before recharging, althought the contractor's that the EPA hired to teach the repair shops spread this falsehood. You can still get your system recharged without the expensive repair bill
Marc VanHeyningen wrote: > > Thus said Mike VandemanReturn to Top: > >I'd like to start with Alcatraz Island -- not because it is great habitat, but > >because it is VERY public, & would create lots of publicity & therefore education > >of people around the world. Instead of seeing a prison, people could go around it > >in a boat & look through binoculars -- at the world's first area off-limits to > >people. Want to help? I doubt that it is good mountain biking material. > > Several of Washington State's San Juan Islands already have this status > and have for a while. You mean NO HUMANS ARE ALLOWED? I doubt it. Usually scientists are allowed to go there. Can you please check that out? Giving Alcatraz this status probably would serve > mainly to convince people that protected areas are chosen not on the > basis of sensitive ecosystems deserving protection but for publicity. What is wrong with publicity? That is called "education". Right now, most protected areas are chosen on the basis of recreational potential for humans. I know of not one single area in the world that is exclusively for wildlife. Do you??? --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles
Mark Woodhead wrote: > P.S. Were you going to respond to my last posting about your claims of > "catastrophic" damage caused by mtn bikers. We're all still waiting for > that evidence as well. That was posted in the original article under this subject. That is exactly why mountain bikes were BANNED by unanimous vote! The evidence is all around you, if you aren't too lazy to look for it! --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
Mr R Chew wrote: > > On 25 Sep 1996 11:41:56 GMT, iain.rowan@nojunk.e-mail.ta.very.much > (Iain Rowan) wrote: > > >OK, lurkers, hands up. When was the last time a cat, horse or cow > >excreted on the pavement outside your front door? When was the last > >time you wouldn't let your kids play in the public park because there was > >so much cat/cow/horse crap there? > Considering the two legged animals that prowl on our public parks and > elsewhere that are of more danger to our children than any dog crap, I > would not allow any child of mine on a public park even if the park > was scrubbed with boiling water and disinfectant twice a day . > There is a large amout of cat crap to be seen on our streets if you > take as much trouble to look for it as you people do in looking for > dog crap . Hi guys,Return to Top
Chernobyl Cowboyz wrote: > > You know what it all boils down to? > Environmentalists drive cars. They think it's wrong that the bikers > prove that the > environmentalists are actually big hypocrites so they need to prove that > biking destroys > nature. Get a life, you motorist! Actually, most mountain bikers carry their bikes on their cars & trucks, because they are bored with all easily accessible trails & have to ride on trails that are far from their homes. True environmentalists don't drive OR mountain bike. --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
I live in an area which is threatened by a drilling company called Coalbed Methane ltd in Upper Largo, Fife Scotland. They already have sites elsewhere in the UK. The local protest group are finding it hard to get them to respond to our requests for information. If anyone can help us oppose them destroy our community please get in touch. hard info for use in planning/courts would be especially welcome. eugene@edflex.demon.co.ukReturn to Top
Justen Meltz wrote: > > Mike Edgar (Mike@edgarco.demon.co.uk) wrote: > : You saved me having to compose a similar post Rob, thanks. We have the > : same problem here (UK) but on a much smaller scale of course, and the > : damage done to habitat by MB'ers is quite catastrophic. In any > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > What catastrophic damage is caused my MTB's that isn't caused by hikers? > The only thing I can think of _may_ be increased erosion, but trail > erosion harms neither the habitat or wildlife. It only harms the trails. Brilliant! Don't you know that trails are (ex-)habitat? The difference between hikers & bikers is mostly one of degree: bikes allow MANY more people to get into wildlife habitat, do MUCH more erosion damage, cause MANY more accidents that are MUCH more serious, etc., etc. That is all obvious to everyone except mountain bikers, who deliberately look the other way so that they don't "see" any damage. --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
Mark Woodhead wrote: > It seems unlikely to me that Mike Vandeman will ever be vindicated in his > baseless attacks on mtn bikers in general, It has already happened in many areas of the world, such as the incident in Des Moines, Iowa, where mountain bikers had done so much damage & were such total asses that they were banned by unanimous vote of a very conservative county board of supervisors. and if the horrors he implies > ever come to pass, it will not be due to the mtn biking community as a > whole, because for the most part, they are there for the experience of the > wild. About as much as zoo-visiting, popcorn-munching, peanut-throwing kids are there to learn about wildlife. --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
>You mean NO HUMANS ARE ALLOWED? I doubt it. Usually scientists are >allowed to go there. Can you please check that out? Goosh, Mike: Not scientists, the horrors of it!!! RickReturn to Top
Rod Adams (atomicrod@aol.com) wrote: : I have followed the CFC debate with some interest for the past : three or four years. : Hm. You nevertheless seem to deserve a polite answer. Below I include a part of Robert Parson's excellently written FAQ on ozone depletion. You should definitely read it, and you can obtain it via http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/ozone-depletion/top.html http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/internet/news/faq/sci.environment.html http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/ozone-depletion/.html Plaintext versions can be found at: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/ozone-depletion/ ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/ozone-depletion/ You should definitely read it, and come back if any question has not been answered. The short answer to you problem ist that atmospheric gases do not segragate by weight in the troposphere and the stratosphere, because the mixing mechanisms (convection, "eddy diffusion") do not distinguish molecular masses. : What troubles me is the lack of knowledge of basic physical principles : on the part of the proponents of the theory that the source of Cl in : the ozone layer is man-made CFCs. (Yes, there is Cl that has : been measured in the ozone layer. There have also been some indirect : measurements of CFCs in concentrations measured in Parts per Trillion.) : : The basic Newtonian physical principle that is completely ignored : by people like Sherwood Rowland and James Lovelock is that gravity : works. It was known well before Newton, that heavier things gather at the bottom. : The average freon compound has a molecular weight of : about 130 while air is a mixture of gases with molecular weights : of about 18-45 (N2 is 28, O2 is 32, Ar is 41, CO2 is 44, and H2O is : 18). You almost stepped over it here. Air is a mixture, not segregated by molecular weights. This of course is valid for CFCs too. : In gaseous mixtures, heavy components tend to sink. This : principle is what makes hot air rise (causing afternoon thunderstorms : in my local area) and cold air sink. Only in "bulk" form. Breweries have to take care of CO_2 collecting in sinks. Nevertheless it will mix and diffuse in a relatively short time. Do an experiment, put KMnO4 (heavy) into water and see what happens. Do a little stirring, it will not segregate again. : : Knowing that, how is it possible to postulate that CFCs that are : released into the atmosphere will preferentially find their way : to the stratosphere, located more than 15 miles above the surface : of the earth, and not into the numerous sinks and pockets that : cover the earth? : No scientist ever claimed they would preferntially go there. If CFCs were not destroyed there, releasing Chlorine, there would be an equilibrium. : I have had direct experience with the behavior of freon in a closed, : but well mixed environment. When we had airconditioning leaks on : my submarine, the freon could not even be found 20 feet about the : bottom. It concentrated itself in the very lowest portions of the : ship (known as the bilge.) : : I have even gone to the trouble of asking Professor Rowland himself : to try to explain why he thinks that a heavy gas like freon will rise : in defiance of gravity. I was pleased that he took the trouble to : write back, but I must admit that his reply failed to answer the : question. (He fell back on the old saw that "CFCs have been measured : in the stratosphere" without mentioning the very minute concentration : at which they were measured.) : : Does anyone have any reasonable answers that will pass the logic : test? : : Rod Adams : Below an excerpt of Section 1.3 of Part I of Robert Parson's FAQ: Subject: 1.3) How does the composition of the atmosphere change with altitude? (Or, how can CFC's get up to the stratosphere when they are heavier than air?) In the earth's troposphere and stratosphere, most _stable_ chemical species are "well-mixed" - their mixing ratios are independent of altitude. If a species' mixing ratio changes with altitude, some kind of physical or chemical transformation is taking place. That last statement may seem surprising - one might expect the heavier molecules to dominate at lower altitudes. The mixing ratio of Krypton (mass 84), then, would decrease with altitude, while that of Helium (mass 4) would increase. In reality, however, molecules do not segregate by weight in the troposphere or stratosphere. The relative proportions of Helium, Nitrogen, and Krypton are unchanged up to about 100 km. Why is this? Vertical transport in the troposphere takes place by convection and turbulent mixing. In the stratosphere and in the mesosphere, it takes place by "eddy diffusion" - the gradual mechanical mixing of gas by motions on small scales. These mechanisms do not distinguish molecular masses. Only at much higher altitudes do mean free paths become so large that _molecular_ diffusion dominates and gravity is able to separate the different species, bringing hydrogen and helium atoms to the top. The lower and middle atmosphere are thus said to be "well mixed." [Chamberlain and Hunten] [Wayne] [Wallace and Hobbs] Experimental measurements of the fluorocarbon CF4 demonstrate this homogeneous mixing. CF4 has an extremely long lifetime in the stratosphere - probably many thousands of years. The mixing ratio of CF4 in the stratosphere was found to be 0.056-0.060 ppbv from 10-50 km, with no overall trend. [Zander et al. 1992] Greetings, FranzReturn to Top
On Sat, 28 Sep 96 07:29:56 GMT, simon@star-one.org.uk (Simon Gray) wrote: >In article <324c3bd9.18966560@news.demon.co.uk> > ron@dane.u-net.com "Mr R Chew" writes: > >~ No ,don't pay money to read rubbish that is written in them these >~ days . Never bought a newspaper for over six years sooner spend the >~ money on our six dogs . > >In that case you can afford to pay Neil the money you owe him. > >-- > []=- Simon Gray, in Birmingham, EU <*> > // _-=__-= Don't give in to censorship - boycott The Observer > _/|] ) ___ \ & The Guardian. >(_) \___/_(___)_| http://www.mahayana.demon.co.uk/ > @ @ I owe no one nothing never have done never will owe anybody anything , but Demon internet owe me a lot odf money for service that I paid for and did not receive !!! .Return to Top
Steinn Sigurdsson (steinn@sandy.ast.cam.ac.uk) wrote: : tobis@scram.ssec.wisc.edu (Michael Tobis) writes: : Next question is: why has mean precipitation remained constant : if temperature are increasing? I don't see why it shouldn't. There's a first order constraint that the evaporative equilibrium over warmer water goes up, but that doesn't require more evaporative flux, at least beyond the trivial amount required to restore equilibrium, which would NOT appear in the balance between evaporation and precipitation. To clarify, the time scales of evaporation are very rapid compared to the time scales of warming, so by comparison with background evaporative flux, the amount of evaporation required to balance the warming surface would be very small. Furthermore, the mass conservation argument that total precipitation equal total evaporation doesn't apply to this tiny imbalance - the additional moisture simply stays in the atmosphere. Over long time scales, this suffices to make the atmosphere moister, but it doesn't provide a significant constraint to the moisture fluxes. By the original argument, weakened large scale circulation, the enhanced low level moisture might well be counterbalanced by reduced large-scale forced convection. I don't see any decisive first order argument as to which would prevail. On the other hand, I thought GCMs *were* showing globally enhanced rainfall. (eg, IPCC '90 Executive Summary to ch 5) In fact, that conclusion was given fairly high (4 on a scale of 5) confidence. mtReturn to Top
Mountain bikers will aparently go to any length, to continue their selfish pleasures, including trying to intimidate anyone who criticizes mountain biking. This example from Kansas University is just one of many such letters that you can expect to get if you say something that the bullies don't like: Return-Path: Labuser@engr.ukans.edu From: Labuser@engr.ukans.edu Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 21:25:45 -0700 Subject: I don't think you're listening. To: mjvande@pacbell.net This is a message from a country you've never stepped your foot on. Be curteous to other people's opinion and wishes. Do not bomb email list with your myths. While some people will be entertained by your stories, most people will be annoyed. Don't be surprised if one of them get really..really angry and send you a real bomb. It's a crazy world out there; you never know what's inside the parcel box you're going to open. -Han- p.s. Pardon my English for it is not my mother tounge. --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
In article <52j4i7$b6i@sun4.bham.ac.uk>, "Sam J. Turner"Return to Topwrites >Mr R Chew (ron@dane.u-net.com) wrote: > >: There is a large amout of cat crap to be seen on our streets if you >: take as much trouble to look for it as you people do in looking for >: dog crap . The point is you don't have to look for the dog crap. > -- Sarah Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/
>In article <324c3b17.18772866@news.demon.co.uk>, Mr R ChewReturn to Topnet.com> writes >>On 26 Sep 1996 08:30:24 GMT, iain.rowan@nojunk.e-mail.ta.very.much >>(Iain Rowan) wrote: >>>I'm not blaming dogs - it's hardly their fault. I'm not blaming 'dog-owners'. >>> I am blaming the sadly sizeable proportion of dog owners who are >>>thoughtless selfish and stupid. > >>I only hope that one day you dog haters find yourselves in some >>serious situation where only a dog can be of help and the dog REFUSES >>to help you . *I* don't hate dogs, just the owners that won't clean up after them. Why do you believe that your dog has more rights to the pavement than my children? -- Sarah Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:info@turnpike.com
Roger W. Faulkner (rfaulkner@interramp.com) wrote: : Rich Puchalsky wrote: : > It's almost always a safe bet to guess that any sci.energy/sci.env : > cross-post is part of a thread about nuclear power. I'm an environmentalist : > who has heard more than enough of both nuclear power attack and defense : > to last a good long while -- shall we start on coal for a change? :-) : I'd like to add another major impact of coal: dispersal of heavy metals : and radioactivity. : And how about acidification of streams? Due to acid precipitation, I beleive (I'd already mentioned that). : Coal is an environmental basket case all around...but you knew that. Do : you think Nuclear power is preferable? That's funny, I was conciously trying to start a coal thread that did *not* bring in nuclear and it immediately returned to that topic. I hypothesize that nuclear takes much more abuse on Usenet partially because its defenders are so eager to carry on threads on the topic. Any coal aficionados on sci.energy may correctly figure that not bothering to respond will cause the thread to terminate very quickly. There may be a lesson there for the nuclear people. -- sci.environment FAQs & critiques - http://www.mnsinc.com/richp/sci_env.htmlReturn to Top
I have found that the best controls for bugs (any kind) are other bugs. You can get predator mites that will chow down on aphids and their eggs like there's no tomorrow, then consume each other when the primary food (aphids & eggs) is gone. Predatory insects are available from a lot of sources, but for quickest access year-round check greenhouse and indoor plant suppliers...Return to Top
Eric AndersonReturn to Topwrote: >Kirk Johnson wrote: >> >> Go ask someone at Allstate or any other large home-owners insurance >> company if they don't think the effects of global warming are real. I'm >> not joking. >Yeah, they are an authority on the subject for sure. >> It is irrelevant if the effects of global warming are not manifesting >> themselves exactly as was originally predicted. >Not so. It is *very* relevant. It is not that they are not manifesting >themselves *exactly* like predicted. They are not manifesting >themselves *anything* like predicted. The models are simply wrong. >> The point is that >> atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are increasing at a steady (and >> accelerating) pace. >This is about the only known variable in an extremely complex equation. simply unture >> This *is* causing large and more frequeny dangerous >> anomolies in our weather. That's the point. >Can you prove that? Can you prove that with the invention of, say, the >weather satellite, that we aren't simply doing a better job of >documenting these "anomolies", as you call them? stupidity knows no bounds. These so called anomolies are way out side the standard deviation, even bone heads like you would recognize them. >Kind of the same way we didn't know about the ozone hole until we had >the equipment to detect it. Strange coincidence, eh? that is just a lie. The model was accepted theory before the ozone hole was detected. >Just in the last 200 years, we have experienced 'natural' climate swings >far greater than the most dire of these greenhouse 'models'. Go back >further and you find even greater 'natural' climate swings. wheres the cite to backup your claim? >The fact is, we simply do not have the consistant long-term data that is >needed to make *any* predictions about the effect of increasing CO2 >levels. >Oh, wait!! We do have lots of paleoclimatic data. What does it say? >It says that our current climate (since the last ice age) is *unusually* >stable. It also says that today's climate is much cooler than for most >of the Earth's history (barring said ice ages, though there is no >denying that we are simply between ice ages at this time). It also says >that CO2 levels are lower today than throughout most of Earth's history. the last line is another lie now where's the cites to back up this useless tripe? >Gee, how did the planet survive without us to save it? >Quite well actually. Paleoclimatic data would suggest that an Earth >with warmer global temperatures and higher CO2 levels, is an Earth that >has larger tropical regions, fewer desert areas, more plant life, and is >an Earth with fewer extremes of temperature between the poles and the >equator. Simply put, a warmer Earth is a healthier Earth. don't know a damn thing about bio diveristy either. >Some scientists have predicted that the current 'natural' >desertification of the Earth (we are only contributing to an on-going >natural process) and the cooling trend of the last few million years, >may well be the initial stirrings leading to the end of life on this >planet--though said scientists predict this process will take 100 >million years. >Why don't people just put away their vain view of humanity and realize >that there are much greater forces at work here than we mere humans? >Eric J. Anderson >eric@as.arizona.edu >Please forward email of responses, flames, etc.
Hello, I am an Italian student and I am preparing for my final degree. As Iam concentrating on English Linguistics, precisely on the discourse analysis of environmental advertising language, I am desperatly looking for (press, VHS videos, AVI) advertising texts concerning the environment( green consumerism, green as a social issue, i.e. profit, non profit advertising materials. Please send me a replay only Email. Many thanks, Sara De MarcoReturn to Top
On 9/27, Muarice Schwartz wrote refering to an article available on the web from the Sierra Club. To quote: >"Environmentalists don't reach out to sportsmen," says Chris Potholm, a professor of government and legal studies at Bowdoin College in Maine. "If they did, they' d be invincible. Whenever sportsmen combine with environmentalists, you have 60 to 70 percent of the population, an absolutely irresistible coalition.".... I would point out that many sportsman are environmentalists, and can indeed get a lot done when focused in unison. For example, look at the organization Ducks Unlimited. Their deal is much like The Nature Conservancy's, although they've focused on wetland preservation. They have made a substantive difference in the duck population while increasing the areas in which one can hunt. When they want to save something, they buy it outright thru funds raised by donations; or sometimes the land parcel itself is donated. At the same time I agree with the premise: If more people who are into outdoor sports and recreation made the environment a political priority, you'd have a real leviathon.Return to Top
charliew@hal-pc.org (charliew) wrote: ->In article <324c06f0.180922867@nntp.st.usm.edu>, -> brshears@whale.st.usm.edu (Harold Brashears) wrote: ->>steve@unidata.ucar.edu (Steve Emmerson) wrote for all to ->see: ->> ->>>In article <324B25BA.1F71@as.arizona.edu>, ->>> Eric AndersonReturn to Topwrites: ->>> ->>>> ..., I will concede that global temperatures ->>>> have risen *slightly* in the last century. But such a ->rise is ->>>> completely within the realm of *natural* processes. ->>> ->>>Would you please provide a reference for this assertion. ->> ->>I would be curious why you ask for proof of what, in my ->understanding, ->>is very well known. From your question I would deduce that ->you do not ->>think the variation in the last century (which substantially ->occurred ->>prior to 1945) is not within natural variation. Is this ->true? ->> ->You know this is not true. The "no-riskers" think that ->without "anthropogenic forcing" from mankind, the atmosphere ->would have zero natural variability in any measured ->component. Thus, there is no need to prove that this is so ->- it is already taken as gospel that it is true. If we hurry ->up and act now, we can still save ourselves from this evil ->variability! Nice little straw man there. Did you build it yourself, or did someone sell it to you? The only people who claim that there is no variation without human intervention are as misinformed as you. But the fact that there is variation doesn't disallow the forcing (in a very unpleasant direction) that is going on now. I suppose that it's just a coincidence that the hottest years of the century just happend to occur after the concern about global warming? Or perhaps it's the conspiracy... ->Incidentally, the "no-riskers" also think they can "pull the ->wool over my eyes" with a bunch of scientific sounding crap ->about attractors, mathematical modelling, positive feedback ->in an inherently unstable dynamic atmospheric system, etc., ->etc., ad nauseum. If you don't understand it, then I guess it must be crap. Do you believe in relativity theory? -> Well, I don't believe in zero emissions, ->zero risk, or the good intentions of "no-riskers". Until I ->see something that looks more like proof, I don't intend to ->get excited about most of these arguments. I don't believe in maximum emissions, maximum risk, or the good intentions of "nothing's wrong, just keep on goingers." As long as it looks like there's a problem, I intend to keep pushing for a solution. Zero emissions is, of course, not a practical goal. But rushing into disaster is not a practical goal either. JimmyO ->============================================================================ ->For some *very* interesting alternate viewpoints, look at ->http://www.hamblin.com/mf.main/articles.html Help to launch the future from http://www.apollo-society.org/apollo The Apollo Launch Pad
staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au (Ian Staples) wrote: ->jhavok@lava.net (James R. Olson, jr.) writes: ->>Eric AndersonReturn to Topwrote: ->[Trivia alert! -- Don't say you weren't warned. :-) ] ->>->Kind of the same way we didn't know about the ozone hole until we had ->>->the equipment to detect it. Strange coincidence, eh? ->>Strange coincidence. The ozone hole was predicted, and then when we ->>looked for it, there it was. What a strange coincidence, since you ->>claim that the models are invalid. ->As a matter of trivial interest to this discussion, but of some ->importance in the field of science ethics and rationality in general: ->Wasn't the Antartic ozone hole quite obvious before it was "found"? ->I seem to recall reading that the instrument data were showing it ->nicely for some time, but because the readings were so far off ->"expected" ones they were naturally "corrected" to fall more in ->line with what they "should" be before they were used. [Perhaps ->"deleted" would be a better choice of word than "corrected"?] ->Perhaps someone can recall what caused people to actually *see* ->what was there all the time. Was it that they looked for evidence ->to confirm the prediction; or was it serendipity that someone ->finally spotted it who didn't "know" it was "wrong"? You're right, the hole was an anomoly that didn't fit the previous model. Another poster pointed out that it wasn't expected, and caused the model to be expanded, at which point the readings were accepted. The mid-latitude ozone thinning (which we are experiencing here in Hawaii) is predicted by the earlier model. It's a pretty common practice to bend a curve to fit the model, since instruments are accepted to be inaccurate. But the bending produces anxiety, and the way to relieve that anxiety is is to adjust the model so the curve fits the data better. This may seem dishonest, but data explains nothing and predicts nothing. The model explains and predicts, and is the goal of all that collection of data. So without a model, data is really useless. A good example is the problems with classical (Newtonian) mechanics. Problems were being found with it in the mid 19th century, but there was no replacement, so a few fudge factors were worked out, the Lorenz transforms. But there was high anxiety about the matter, and various people were trying to work it out. The successful answer, Einstein's relativity, relied not on instruments or data, but rather on a philosophical shift, a rejection of the unobservable. Einstein said that if he had not come up with the theory, Poincaire (sp?), who proposed the shift away from the unobservable, would have done it. Once the new theory was proposed, it was almost immediately accepted, because it resolved all the difficulties with classical mechanics. The first poster, Anderson, casts doubt on the ozone data because its readings were expected. I wonder how he views all the different confirmations of relativity theory, since they fit what the experimenters were looking for? JimmyO Help to launch the future from http://www.apollo-society.org/apollo The Apollo Launch Pad
Troll: A deliberately disrupting, confused and incorrect post or one posting trolls to a Usenet group to generate a flurry of responses from people called "billygoats" trying to set the record straight. Other trollers enter the fray adding more and more misinformation so that the thread eventually dies of strangulation. Trolls/trollers cannot be affected by facts nor logic. Yep, mws@wt.net (MWSmith) wrote on Sat, 28 Sep 1996 05:41:16 Re: it's a SCIENCE CONSPIRACY!!!!! MEGADITTOS, RUSH! > ... >>zepp@snowcrest.net (Zepp) lowered the collective IQ of the internet when he wrote: >>>mws@wt.net (MWSmith) enlightened the cyberspace with this: >>>Return to Top>>>>bashford@psnw.com (Crash) wrote: .... EVERYTIME that scienceis wrong? Is this coincidence? Every time??????????????? They are saying; "Everything, even science (reality as man knows it), is all just a matter of political opinion". Can we blame them? No. That is their job. Both of you guys are full it. Know-nothing dittohead parrots it seems. Or Trolls. Troll: A deliberately disrupting, confused and incorrect post or one posting trolls to a Usenet group to generate a flurry of responses from people called "billygoats" trying to set the record straight. Other trollers enter the fray adding more and more misinformation so that the thread eventually dies of strangulation. Trolls/trollers cannot be affected by facts nor logic. billygoat: Those who debate trolls. This type often claims to worship things like Truth, facts, and logic, and may spew them without provocation. Billygoats come in two categories: Billykids: These are often kneejerk billygoats who don't understand the nature of trolls, and futilely take them seriously. Rams: Are discriminating and seasoned billykids who strategically only push troller's buttons to better make a point. MWSmith wrote: >Volcanos do not release clorine atoms into the atmosphere? No >reputable scientist will dispute this fact. Clorine atoms may deplete >the ozone. A CFC molecule will not affect the O3 atom. ( O3 = ozone). >I knew I'd tweek someone with the cow fart statement. HA! >BTW, where does the clorine that evaporates off of a swimming pool go? >I think we should ban all swimming pools and water processing plants >cuz they use tons of clorine. Less is better, right? Now I'm starting to wonder if you are a professional troll, perhaps hired by the Rich Boys? I really do admire the elegance of your above paragraph. At first glance it seems like the perfect example of all true facts, (by ignoring context and other facts,) coming to the skillfully executed wrong conclusion. .... The execution of this propaganda skill was not the blathering of an uninformed idiot, but was carefully planned. But by whom? Was the writer just another parrot? What is the source of this propaganda? So? what motivates these trolls? Here are some troll types: 1) the do-me troll: This troll enjoys mental masturbation. Wants stimulation, needs a good fuck, will settle for you. A common amateur troll. Often about fourteen years old, respected by many twelve-year-olds. 2) pro-troll: Professional troll. Funded as a cost-effective (cheap) form of generic "advertising" such as; "Got Milk?" is generic. Often political, -- ya, the Rich Boys want what we have. Economics says; if it cost-effective, it probably exists. Includes most trollbots. 3) blind-parrot troll: Often some brand of innocent parrot with a cut-and-paste filter-my-mind reality. These also include many with emotional, financial, or religious vested interests -- real, imagined, or implanted. Often engages in the self-censorship of his own mental inputs, and may seek self-validating propaganda rather than an education. Quite common. 4) any suggestions? Did I miss any? This might be fun.... -- Doug bashford@psnw.com Science, Ecology, Economics, Environment, and Politics (title) http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/e-index.html
I am pretty new to this newsgroup, and I was wondering if anyone could tell me of a river/lake that has contamination that fluctuates on an hourly basis. I would like to find a site to test that has contaminate fluctuations with some kind of time dependance, the shorter the better. I guess even down to minutes or seconds. The contamination can be of almost any type, but preferably it would involve _any_ of the following: VOCs, small (Return to Top
Subject: Re: Coal madness (was Nuclear madness)
From: af329@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Scott Nudds)
Date: 28 Sep 1996 15:55:39 GMT
Roger W. Faulkner (rfaulkner@interramp.com) wrote: : Coal is an environmental basket case all around...but you knew that. Do : you think Nuclear power is preferable? What is more preferable... Lung Cancer or Malanoma? Same kind of question. I would rather avoid both.Return to Top
Subject: Re: health hazards of dog faeces
From: ron@dane.u-net.com (Mr R Chew)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:49:32 GMT
On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 19:31:25 +0100, SarahReturn to Topwrote: >*I* don't hate dogs, just the owners that won't clean up after them. >Why do you believe that your dog has more rights to the pavement than my >children? > >-- >Sarah > >Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:info@turnpike.com First of all Sarah, I never said that my dogs had more rights to anywhere than anyone else's children, adults, or for that matter other animals . But what I will say Sarah is that if you are like quite a lot parents these days is that your children do NOT have the right to ride push bikes along pavements ( the old name for pavement was footpath not cycle track ) bumping into people when they step out of their front doors . Also children do NOT have the right to go running around supermarkets with trolleys like wild animals bumping into people either .And for your information Sarah my dogs do not do it on the pavement they do it in the roadway and on the odd occasion when an accident occurs I carry a bag in my pocket for the use of .Do not class all dog owners alike, must dog owners do not allow there animals to foul the pavements and when they do it is cleaned up. I won't go on but to my mind children are more of a nuisance to other people than a well trained dog could ever be .
Subject: Re: health hazards of dog faeces
From: ron@dane.u-net.com (Mr R Chew)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:50:34 GMT
On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 19:37:04 GMT, ron@dane.u-net.com (Mr R Chew) wrote: >On Sat, 28 Sep 96 07:29:56 GMT, simon@star-one.org.uk (Simon Gray) >wrote: > >>In article <324c3bd9.18966560@news.demon.co.uk> >> ron@dane.u-net.com "Mr R Chew" writes: >> >>~ No ,don't pay money to read rubbish that is written in them these >>~ days . Never bought a newspaper for over six years sooner spend the >>~ money on our six dogs . >> >>In that case you can afford to pay Neil the money you owe him. >> >>-- >> []=- Simon Gray, in Birmingham, EU <*> >> // _-=__-= Don't give in to censorship - boycott The Observer >> _/|] ) ___ \ & The Guardian. >>(_) \___/_(___)_| http://www.mahayana.demon.co.uk/ >> @ @ >I owe no one nothing never have done never will owe anybody anything , >but Demon internet owe me a lot of money for service that I paid for >and did not receive !!! .Return to Top
Subject: Re: Tropical ocean warming - are climate models wrong?
From: af329@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Scott Nudds)
Date: 28 Sep 1996 16:15:44 GMT
Hugh Easton (hugh@daflight.demon.co.uk) wrote: : My personal impression (not backed up by detailed climate records, : unfortunately) is that most of the increase is in summer rather than : winter temperatures. I understand that the summer of 1995 was the : hottest and driest for 300 years, and there have been several other : near-record hot summers within the last 15 years. AFAIK, the same thing : has been happening in the states too. : Unfortunately this is yet another example of how climate models have got : things back to front: they predict that global warming will affect winter : temperatures more than summer temperatures. Mr Easton's comments make it clear to me that his justification that "climate models have got things back to front", is not based upon evidence but his "personal impression". Fortunately science is not based on "personal impressions", and we may ignore Mr. Eastons "personal impressions" for this reason. My only question is why Mr. Easton sees a need to express his faith here rather than provide evidence. I suspect Mr Easton has chosen to value denialist faith over scientific evidence.Return to Top
Subject: Re: Safety or Sanity (was the Rusland Beeches, England)
From: gates
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:59:16 +0100
See below for pearl of wisdom In articleReturn to Top, Nick Eyre writes >In article <52bvt4$7e8@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, Steve Cumming > writes >>In article <3245b1e0.7788415@nntp.st.usm.edu>, >>Harold Brashears wrote: >>>stevec@geog.ubc.ca (Steve Cumming) wrote for all to see: >>> >>>>In article <3242a613.55235701@nntp.st.usm.edu>, >>>>Harold Brashears wrote: >>>>>stevec@geog.ubc.ca (Steve Cumming) wrote for all to see: >>>>> >>>>[much snippage] >>>> >>>>>I do not believe you will find anyone really familar with the >>>>>peer-review process who will agree with you. Since you claim >>>>>familarity, when was your last peer reviewed paper? >>>> >>>>@article{cumming96, >>>> author = "S. G. Cumming and P. J. Burton and B. Klinkenberg", >>>> title = "Canadian boreal mixedwood forests may have no >>>> ``Representative'' areas: some implications for >>>> reserve design", >>>> year = 1996, >>>> journal = "Ecography", >>>> volume = "19", >>>> pages = "162-180" >>>>} >>>If correct (I may or may not bother to check), >> >>\begin{flame} >> >>Listen up, you son of a bitch. >> >>Either do the lit-search, and then retract your innuendo, or >>save yourself from further embarrassment, and retract it >>immediately. >>\end{flame} >> > >Don't encourage him Steve. He claims to have looked for a well known >international journal I referred to and failed to find it. > Hi all, I am truly shocked. So I'll just remind the person who doesn't like to bother librarians (may be something to do with mother and childhood - or place of conception) that it is written: A wise man may learn from a fool but a fool will never learn even from a wise man. Best Regards, Les Ballard, Ash, Fire and Earth Christian Warrior Wizard of the Third Age, Grand Whizzard, Last of the Essex Cunning Men, Tree Wizard of The White Brethren, Witch priest, intuitive environmentalist. P.S. I'll be pleased to publish some of the flaming in my wife's pagan contact magazine so that the author can lose credibility before the pagan public as well as his peers.(;-) -- Les Ballard Les@gates.demon.co.uk c/o BM: Gates of Annwn London WC1N 3XX U.K. 44+(0)1708 670431 Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:info@turnpike.com
Subject: Re: Mountain Bikers Arrested in Grand Canyon
From: John
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:53:02 +0100
On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Mike Vandeman wrote: > Chernobyl Cowboyz wrote: > > > > You know what it all boils down to? > > Environmentalists drive cars. They think it's wrong that the bikers > > prove that the > > environmentalists are actually big hypocrites so they need to prove that > > biking destroys > > nature. Get a life, you motorist! > > Actually, most mountain bikers carry their bikes on their cars & trucks, because > they are bored with all easily accessible trails & have to ride on trails that > are far from their homes. True environmentalists don't drive OR mountain bike. So what do you do Mikey? JohnReturn to Top
Subject: Re: MTBers Trashing One of the Last Virgin Forests in Iowa!
From: Mike Edgar
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:36:12 +0100
In articleReturn to Top, Mark Woodhead writes >In article , Mike Edgar > wrote: > >> In article <32470D96.47D4@discover.net>, Chernobyl Cowboyz >> writes >> >> And guess what, I suspect that Mike travels all the way to >> >> work in his comfortable POLLUTING car. Oh, I forgot, pleople >> >> like him don't have jobs, they are just a burden on the >> >> welfare-system. >> > >> >No, not a burden. He just sees that he doesn't want to add any >> >ecological burden by working in the industry. >> >> >PHHHFFFFT! If it turns out this way, there will be lots of people >> >(sadly) vindicated, but Vandeman ain't gonna be one of them. You do >> >*real* people doing *real* work to save the planet a HUGE disservice >> >by lumping Vandeman in with them. >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >DANIEL CLEMENTS (Barrie, Ontario CANADA) >> > >> >> ..... and that's just your biased, and myopic opinion. Make sure your >> kids and their kids know who to blame for their concrete wilderness >> won't you.... ? >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Mike Edgar >> It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Mike, I seemed to have missed your basis for linking the paving over of >the planet with those who disagree with Mike Vandeman. Could you go over >that again? > No,.... if you could not see it the first time, you never will.... >Mark > >P.S. Were you going to respond to my last posting about your claims of >"catastrophic" damage caused by mtn bikers. We're all still waiting for >that evidence as well. > No I was not going to respond, but I've seen it, photographed it and logged it, try doing the same............. and who's "we".. ? Mark > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Edgar It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: MTBers Trashing One of the Last Virgin Forests in Iowa!
From: Mike Edgar
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:39:44 +0100
In articleReturn to Top, Mark Woodhead writes >In article , Mike Edgar > wrote: > >> In article <32470D96.47D4@discover.net>, Chernobyl Cowboyz >> writes >> >> And guess what, I suspect that Mike travels all the way to >> >> work in his comfortable POLLUTING car. Oh, I forgot, pleople >> >> like him don't have jobs, they are just a burden on the >> >> welfare-system. >> > >> >No, not a burden. He just sees that he doesn't want to add any >> >ecological burden by working in the industry. >> >> I doubt that Mike V would be a burden on any welfare system from choice, >> but your "attitude" suggests that you certainly are a burden (far above >> that which any living creature is by it's mere existence of course) on >> any ecosystem. >> > >Mike, > How can you possibly make a statement like the one above and continue to >sign your postings as you do below? Nice?!? Does the term hypocracy mean >anything to you? > >Mark > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Mike Edgar >> It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: >rec.animals.wildlife, >rec.backcountry,rec.bicycles.off-road,rec.bicycles.soc,sci.environment) > >In article , Mike Edgar > wrote: > >> In article <32470D96.47D4@discover.net>, Chernobyl Cowboyz >> writes >> >> And guess what, I suspect that Mike travels all the way to >> >> work in his comfortable POLLUTING car. Oh, I forgot, pleople >> >> like him don't have jobs, they are just a burden on the >> >> welfare-system. >> > >> >No, not a burden. He just sees that he doesn't want to add any >> >ecological burden by working in the industry. >> >> I doubt that Mike V would be a burden on any welfare system from choice, >> but your "attitude" suggests that you certainly are a burden (far above >> that which any living creature is by it's mere existence of course) on >> any ecosystem. >> > >Mike, > How can you possibly make a statement like the one above and continue to >sign your postings as you do below? Nice?!? Does the term hypocracy mean >anything to you? > >Mark > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Mike Edgar >> It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Never heard of it Mark,.... but the term hypocrIsy does. My assessment is based upon a) Your apparent instinctive trashing of any attempt by Mike V, or anyone else who dares to suggest that we humans have NO RIGHT to destroy wildlife and habitat in the pursuit of selfish pastimes, and b) your unwarranted personal, detrimental remarks about him. I only "know" about him via this ng,..... do you know him personally.. ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Edgar It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Death Threat for Opposing Mountain Biking
From: snoop@et.byu.edu (joe)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 00:46:13 GMT
In article <324D652E.4057@pacbell.net>, Mike VandemanReturn to Topwrote: >Mountain bikers will aparently go to any length, to continue their selfish >pleasures, including trying to intimidate anyone who criticizes mountain >biking. This example from Kansas University is just one of many such letters >that you can expect to get if you say something that the bullies don't like: Mike, After reading more of your posts than I feel I deserve too, I've got to respond. First of all, I really don't think that the silly kid who 'threatened' you is the bully here. The fact of the matter is, is that if you really feel that you life is in danger I would suffest you talk with the police rather than posting your personal problems onto the internet. You've already proven to everyone in the rec.bicycles.* newsgroups that you are vehemently opposted to mountain biking; you and the readers of these news groups have argued back and forth to no end about it... and I don't think that anyone has changed his/her mind on the issues. Perhaps out of frustration, lately it seems that your posts are getting more and more mean spirited. Do you really think that you are forwarding your cause by calling mountain bikes; idiots, bullies, ect. ? The truth be known I am afraid that you know all too well what you are doing.. By CROSS-posting these obvious trolls to all these news groups (ie. this post was sent to:sci.environment,ca.environment,ba.transportation,rec.bicycles.soc, rec.bicycles.*) You are trying to get imflamitory responces.. to ultimatly make mtbers out to be a buch of mean bullies who are out to get you. I think that in this you are making a big mistake. Most mtb riders would classify themselves as environmentalists, I personally am a member of the Sierra club, as well as being active in local environmental activities. It seem like, in my neck of the woods anyway (Utah), that environmentalism, and environmentalists in general are having a difficult time in the public relations arena... As such, it would seem that you would do your cause more good by trying to find allies amoung mtbers rather than enemies. Assuming, of course, that your ultimate goal in all this, is to advance your cause of wilderness creation/preservtaion. You would perhaps be surprised to know that may local mtbers supported the recent creation of the 'Grand Staircase' national monument despite that fact that as a national mounument no off road riding will be allowed... many of us realize that mtb's do not belong everywhere... This said, I would invite you to please stop trolling the fertile waters of the rec.bicycles hierarcy and try to bring up the level of your posts. thanks, jjh (idiot mtber.)
Subject: Are Airlines Using High-Sulfur, Polluting Fuel?
From: rockaway@usa.pipeline.com(Bill Mulcahy)
Date: 28 Sep 1996 22:35:35 GMT
I recently got a Email from someone (who may want to be anomymous) on the question of the use by the airline industry of high sulfur polluting fuels. The first paragragh has to do with the question of if an additive is used to mask the black smoke from the burning of aviation fuels. I would like to work with individuals or any group to get the airlines to reduce their polluting, not only with their fuel, but with their noise. Bill Mulcahy http://pages.prodigy.com/NY/rockaway/safe.html "The only additive I could find was de-icing agents; these are a customer demand and generally added at the terminal/airport. The location and season obviously are an overriding factor. They are probably slightly toxic, but generally harmless when combusted with the fuel - not a significant impact. JPA, or Jet A, is made from either grade 54 (0.3% sulfur) or grade 55 (0.04% sulfur). Both are basically pure kerosene. If you want to start a pro-active dialogue (simple issue, easy to communicate, reduce emissions), this is the place to START. Does not mean you have to stop there, but it is a good way to break the ice so to speak. Try to have the airlines start a voluntary switch to only grade 55 for fuel. The cost difference between the two is 0.75 to 2.0 cents a gallon and varies with the seasons. This is a large expense when you figure out how much an airline uses, so the mitigation by your organization should be respected as costly and non-trivial. You would have to get ALL the airlines at any one hub to agree or you'd give one a competitive advantage."Return to Top
Subject: Parks Do Not Protect Wildlife
From: Mike Vandeman
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:56:13 -0700
September 28, 1996 Department of Parks and Recreation Attn: Planning Section P.O. Box 942896 Sacramento, CA 94296-0001 Re: The Purchase of Diablo Ranch Gentlepersons: Yes, please purchase this ranch! But don't simply add it to Mount Diablo State Park. We humans already have much more than our ____ share of the land of California. I don't have an exact figure, but I suspect that only a few percent of the area of California is still functional as wildlife habitat for our native species. Recent research has shown that recreation, even activities which we have always thought to be innocuous (e.g. a simple walk in the woods!), can be harmful and even deadly to wildlife (see Wildlife and ____________ Recreationists, cited below). But common sense also suffices: don't ______________ we insist on not being molested in our homes? Why do animals __ usually run away when we approach? Why are lands near cities, farms, and developed parks depauperate in terms of species? Obviously, the presence of humans is incompatible with the ____________ preservation of all of our biodiversity. (In case some still harbor the belief that at least "primitive" humans knew how to coexist sustainable with other species, note the comments of Stephen J. Gould (Bully for _________ Brontosaurus, p.110): "We must cast aside the myths of noble non- ____________ Westerners living in ecological harmony with their potential quarries. The ancestors of New Zealand's Maori people based a culture on hunting moas, but soon made short work of them, both by direct removal and by burning of habitat to clear areas for agriculture." See also The End of Evolution, by Peter Ward -- cited below. He argues ____________________ convincingly that humans were responsible for the demise of most of the large mammals of North America.) We believe that we own every square inch of the Earth, and have the right to do what we want to it. This is precisely why we are losing, worldwide, dozens of species per day. It is also absurd! How does this relate to our parks? Parks are, potentially, ___________ one of the most important areas for the preservation of wildlife habitat. We rejoice whenever we acquire more land and convert it to a park. But if we examine this conversion from the point of view of wildlife, it may not be so rosy. Land that is in private hands may ___ be heavily used, but often it isn't. On the other hand, land that is designated a "park" is usually 100 percent accessible to the public, and thus of potentially zero utility as habitat. ____ A park is nothing, without wildlife (wildlife = all nonhuman, _______ non-domesticated species, plants as well as animals). Without wildlife, a park is nothing but a pile of rocks, which can't hold our attention for more than a few minutes. By far the most ______ interesting part of any park is its wildlife, followed by prehistoric wildlife, prehistoric humans, early humans, native cultures and peoples, and early remnants of our own culture. And this is the order in which priority should be given. This is partly due to the relative importance of these various elements in a park (i.e., what makes a park a park, as opposed to a city), ____ but it can also be justified on the basis of what is most vulverable: plants can't protect themselves from animals, animals from native peoples, native cultures from the dominant culture, etc. In other words, if we are going to continue to have parks that are enjoyable to visit, and that offer a respite from the pressures and relative sterility of the city, we are going to have to give much more priority to wildlife. ____ In recent years, the trend in our parks has, unfortunately, been in the opposite direction. Park managers have given in to pressure from various interest groups, so that lately, wildlife are given only token attention. For example, the last time I visited the Grand Canyon, three of the four ranger talks I heard were about recent American visitors to the Canyon. The one talk about wildlife was about all the fish that have gone extinct or are going extinct, due to Glen Canyon Dam and our mismanagement of the river. Wildlife need a place to live, just as we do. That means a place where they are not molested (from their point of view, of _____ course, not ours!). But humans think we own every square inch of the Earth. We think we have a right to go anywhere we want. In 2 million years of human evolution, there has never been one square inch of the Earth that is off-limits to humans (from which we voluntarily exclude ourselves)! There have always been some places that were difficult to reach, and hence were de-facto off-limits to ________ humans, but as technology has progressed, there are fewer and fewer of these areas. Various kinds of cars and trucks, motorcycles, boats, mountain bikes, sophisticated camping and climbing gear, helicopter rescues, water stashes, and even freeze-dried foods have all contributed to eliminating the last safe refuges of wildlife. There are two issues that relate to the impact of management on wildlife: spacial and temporal. In spacial terms, almost all park lands are accessible to all humans during all daylight hours. No special skills are required. This practically eliminates parks as wildlife habitat. Even if there still are places where wildlife have access, any of them can potentially be reached by people, once ___________ the habitat is designated as a "park". In temporal terms, nighttime has historically been available for wildlife to travel and feed unmolested by humans. Camping eliminates that "loophole"! People can potentially camp or explore (with the proper equipment, all of which is available) at night now, anywhere they want to. Written regulations are only partly effective in curbing human abuses (e.g. witness the "Sedona 5" brazenly mountain biking down the North Kaibab Trail all the way to the Colorado!). The only sensible, humane way to restrict human access to wildlife habitat within a park is to close roads (eliminating easy motor vehicle access). "Demotorizing" and "depaving" the park will go a long way toward reducing human impacts to a sustainable level. However, there still needs to be a prohibition against motor vehicles, boats, horses, mules, and other such travel aids in the park. Bicycles (and, of course, wheelchairs), since they are quiet and nonpolluting, could be allowed in the park but never off-road! _____ (Replacing motor vehicles with bikes is an obvious improvement, but allowing bikes on trails and in habitat areas is an equally obvious step backwards!) Is this "fair"? Yes, because the same rules apply to everyone. There is no reason that humans should have access to every square inch of the Earth! In fact, there are very good reasons why we shouldn't. It would not significantly reduce enjoyment of the park if people had access only to a few locations, rather than everywhere. __________ I would prefer that you designate this new "parkland" as a "wildlife preserve", provide no access to it whatsoever (including __ biologists, who are hard for wildlife to distinguish from other humans), and even experiment with making it the first (?) area in the world that is truly off-limits to humans. The wildlife will thank you! Sincerely, Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. P.S. For more information and explanation, see my web page, listed below. P.P.S. Please share my comments as widely as possible. References: Ehrlich, Paul R. and Ehrlich, Anne H., Extinction: The Causes and __________________________ Consequences of the Disappearances of Species. New York: Random _____________________________________________ House, 1981. Engwicht, David, Reclaiming Our Cities and Towns: Better Living ______________________________________________ with Less Traffic. Philadelphia: New Society Publishers, 1993 _________________ (first published as Towards an Eco-City: Calming the Traffic, in ________________________________________ 1992). Foreman, Dave, Confessions of an Eco-Warrior. New York: Harmony _____________________________ Books, 1991. Grumbine, R. Edward, Ghost Bears. Washington, DC: Island Press, ___________ 1992. Knight, Richard L. and Kevin J. Gutzwiller, eds. Wildlife and ____________ Recreationists. Covelo, California: Island Press, c.1995. ______________ Life on the Edge. A Guide to California's Endangered Natural ____________________________________________________________ Resources: Wildlife. Santa Cruz, California: BioSystem Books, 1994. ___________________ Little, Charles E., The Dying of the Trees -- The Pandemic in _________________________________________ America's Forests. New York: Penguin Books USA Inc., c.1995. _________________ Myers, Norman, ed., Gaia: An Atlas of Planet Management, Garden ___________________________________ City, NY: Anchor Books, 1984. Noss, Reed F., "The Ecological Effects of Roads", in "Killing Roads", Earth First! Noss, Reed F. and Allen Y. Cooperrider, Saving Nature's Legacy: _______________________ Protecting and Restoring Biodiversity. Island Press, Covelo, _____________________________________ California, 1994. Sachs, Aaron, "Eco-Justice: Linking Human Rights and the Environment". Worldwatch Institute, December, 1995. Stone, Christopoher D., Should Trees Have Standing? Toward Legal ________________________________________ Rights for Natural Objects. Los Altos, California: William __________________________ Kaufmann, Inc., 1973. Vandeman, Michael J., http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles/ Ward, Peter Douglas, The End of Evolution: On Mass Extinctions and _____________________________________________ the Preservation of Biodiversity. New York: Bantam Books, 1994. ________________________________ Whitman, Walt, Leaves of Grass. New York: The New American Library, _______________ 1958. "The Wildlands Project", Wild Earth. Richmond, Vermont: The __________ Cenozoic Society, 1994. Wilson, Edward O., The Diversity of Life. Cambridge, Massachusetts: _____________________ Harvard University Press, 1992. --- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticlesReturn to Top
Subject: Re: Developer info requested.
From: Amiel Ferman
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:12:15 GMT
Joseph King wrote: > > Our company makes re-usable software components and we need to be able to > find ways of getting exposure for our components in our key markets. The > three components we have now are intended for individuals who program their > own applications in the scientific and engineering fields. Two of them > allow people to organize large amounts of data in hierarchical > relationships like that used in modeling real world entities. Our content > model is robust, quick and flexible and is a means of opening up one's data > to other applications via scripting or through integration with other > software components. The biggest virtue of our components is that they are > solid, well-tested and perform well defined functions while retaining > enormous flexibility. > > That is the context. One of the things I would greatly appreciate > suggestions on is how to get the attention of individuals who write their > own apps in the sci-tech/engineering fields. One of the thoughts I had was > that alot of the products that find their way out into the market in the > chemistry fields is inside research institutions, goverment organizations, > and academic institutions. The question is, how to get their attention? > > Help is appreciated. > > jking. I am a student and I just took a physics class. well I'm not going to tell you my life's story but I came upon some very interesting facts that you should know about when preparing to the future : 1) The experiment was quite simple : The main theme was throwing a metal ball down a long table. the results were tragic. 2) I found out that the gravitational constant is actually 3.4 and as was specified by Newton. 3) therefore I have concluded that the moon should crash into earth in about a year from now. (here's a tip : if you are around Canda or Alaska - get out of there quick). 4) I guess that the government tries to hide that real good, but I would appriciate it if the right people would change the numbers in physics books. we don't have much time anyway. 5) By the way, in 10 years the sun would explode (also from my calculations) but it will be too late anyhow. byeReturn to Top
Subject: Re: Tropical ocean warming - are climate models wrong?
From: tobis@scram.ssec.wisc.edu (Michael Tobis)
Date: 29 Sep 1996 01:57:27 GMT
Leonard Evens (len@math.nwu.edu) wrote: : Hence, jsut as their colleagues in other : branches of physics before them, climatologists have to try to be clever : about working around such limitations and doing the best they can. Minor correction here: that should read "just as their colleagues in other branches *after* them". The *first* refereed paper that reported scientific results from electronic computations appeared in the meteorological journal, Tellus, in 1950, entitled "Numerical Integration of the Barotropic Vorticity Equation", by Charney, Fjortoft, and von Neumann. Yes, *that* von Neumann. He felt that meteorological applications provided a good proving ground for the use of computers in science, and he rounded up the noted physical meteorologist Jule Charney to help him prove his point. (I don't know anything about Fjortoft.) Von Neumann also identified the dual purposes to which such models could be put, that is, in understanding and predicting the outcomes of particular meteorological situations ("weather") and in understanding and analysing the long term behavior of the model system and comparing it with observed statistics ("climate"). The harsh criticisms of the use of computers to study climate are coming from people who wouldn't know a barotropic vorticity equation if it bit them on the behind, of course. It's worth noting that this application which is being accused of being patently unscientific was precisely the one chosen by the founder of scientific computing as the paradigm of a scientific problem to which computing could and should be applied. mtReturn to Top
Subject: Re: Mountain Bikers Arrested in Grand Canyon
From: smatt@indirect.com (Steve Mattingly)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 19:53:46 UNDEFINED
In article <324D4586.5762@pacbell.net> Mike VandemanReturn to Topwrites: >From: Mike Vandeman >Subject: Re: Mountain Bikers Arrested in Grand Canyon >Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 08:34:30 -0700 I hope you realize you are ranting here Mike. Anyone with a psychological makeup like you will be on the "closely watched" list in most areas. YOU are the problem...really. Look at your ranting Mike and tell me MTB riders are a problem. Here are a few examples of your pearls of wisdom. >A good example of how mountain bikers reject anything that gets in their >way,and trivialize any damage they do. >This is what passed for thinking, among mountain bikers. >So? Who says you are guaranteed to be provided with thrills? Talk about >SELFISH! >Anyone who questions mountain biking can expect to be called all kinds of >names and be threatened in every way possible, including being murdered. They >willstop at NOTHING to be able to keep getting their selfish thrills. >Wildlife are infinitely more valuable than any human artifact. >I wanted to stop this scourge before it got too big to handle. >100% of mountain bikers ride where it is inappropriate (off road). >YOU can't even control your own fellow MTBers, so why should anyone else be >expected to do so? >True environmentalists don't drive OR mountain bike. Mike, get a grip here! You really need to find someone to talk to. How many voices are talking to you at once? Please save the world for us Mike, by posting here I'm sure you'll really accomplish a lot. Do you live someplace? Do you use electricity? Do you use paper, or ANY petroleum products? I'm betting you DO compromise yourself daily. If you were a true environmentalist you would shun all and head for the wilderness...or is even that perhaps forbid? Then...should man exist at all, Mike? I hope you can get some help.
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Byron Palmer