Subject: Re: Population Control
From: charliew@hal-pc.org (charliew)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 00:08:16 GMT
In article <326E851D.344F@ix.netcom.com>,
mfriesel@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>mf replies:
>
>Oh dear, now I have to respond twice, since I habitually
send email
>only to the sender.
>
>charliew wrote, in reply to what I wrote, and so forth...
>
>
>'Apparently you just don't "get it". I have (in the U.S.) a
>Constitutionally guaranteed right to life, liberty, and the
>pursuit of happiness. I take these words seriously, and I
am
>not about to let ANY government authority tell me how big my
>family must be, or what my family values will be. I intend
>to raise my children as conservatives, with conservative
>morals and ethics, whether you or other liberals like it or
>not. If laws are passed that make this illegal, I will
still
>pursue this policy, whether you or other liberals like it or
>not. And by the way, there isn't a whole hell-of-a-lot you
>can do about it, either.'
>
>To which I reply, more briefly this time...
>
>If society passes laws that you decide to break, you will be
what is
>commonly called a 'criminal'. As long as getting your way
is worth
>the risk of being assessed the penalty, go ahead. I find it
>interesting that, for lack of any effective argument, you
resort to
>simple stubborness and defiance like an unruly child.
Sticks and stones ... You are assuming one major thing here.
Note once and for all that I am *not* in a popularity
contest, neither in usenet nor my private life. As such, the
only two things I *have* to do is die and pay taxes. I
normally choose to do the rest of the things that I do, but I
am not necessarily bound to do them just because they are
legal, or your concept of what is right. And rest assured
that if I choose to break a law, I will be fully prepared to
suffer the consequences before I do actually break that law.
But supporters
>of the Republicans are most like unruly children from my
perspective.
>
>Your opinion would count most in a democratic society where
government
>is the seat of power. In a corporate America, you would
simply be
>dismissed, i.e. financially eliminated, or like the
occassional
>whistleblower physically neutralized, if you adopted a view
counter to
>that of your organization.
It's happened before, and it may happen again. However I,
unlike you, have enough "balls" to come back from
unemployment.
I'm afraid that in either form of
>government it is unlikely that you would be dictator,
something else
>people seem to forget.
>
===================================================================
For some *very* interesting alternate viewpoints, look at
http://www.hamblin.com
Subject: Re: energy from wood from waste
From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns)
Date: 24 Oct 1996 04:51:31 GMT
East Hampton, New York (on Long Island) is also benefitting from
a system of building-contained composting, known as "in-vessel"
composting. Compostable materials are collected and composted in long
open-top corridors, where their temperature is closely monitored and
maintained in an optimum range. Material composts inside the building
for 35 days and cures outside for 80 days more.
The facility is maintained at a negative relative air pressure to
contain odors, which even inside of the building are not terribly
bad. Exhaust air is filtered in a large underground system before
release to the outdoors. Curing compost rests just outside, atop the
building's air inlets; essentially the building "inhales" through the
finished product, which continues to contain odors even though the
piles of curing compost are outside.
In-vessel composting has become a commercial enterprise, with
several companies marketing composting facility solutions. The East
Hampton, NY compost facility was built by Wheelabrator Clean Water
Systems, Inc. I don't recall who manufactured the composting facility
in Fairfield CT. I am aware of similar in-vessel composting
facilities in Lockport NY, Holyoke MA, Lebanon CT, and a New York town
I can't read in my notes, it looks like Baldwinsville NY, where
brewery waste is composted.
I am not aware of any attempts to use such compost to fertilize tree
"crops" grown for caloric value as firewood. But it could certainly
be used to fertilize grain crops grown for production into an alcohol
fuel.
Generally the compost product is used and sold as non-agricultural
fertilizer. I do not believe that present regulations permit its use
in agriculture.
Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net
Not associated with Wheelabrator, etc.
Bruce (howlett@biology.utah.edu) wrote:
: In article <326BB0E4.13B8@worldres.demon.co.uk>, Kit Strange
: wrote:
: > I wonder if you could help. Has anyone heard of any project to compost
: > municipal waste and/or sewage sludge, for application in forests?
: >
: > Secondly, are these forests ever used for energy recovery (i.e. the
: > compost makes the wood grow, which is then burned)?
: >
: > I would be very interested to know if this has already been tried (and,
: > if so, is it effective and environmentally friendly?).
: For a variant of this, the city of Fairfield Connecticut has a composting
: facility (fancy building, front-end loaders, aeration fans, the whole
: works) for their sewage sludge. The main input, however, is wood chips from
: all the prunings of street trees. Essentially the sludge adds nitrogen to
: the wood chips so they will rot faster. The compost generated is dumped
: back on city landscaping and sold to landscapers for similar uses. The
: process is cheaper than landfilling in this area. (My uncle, who is
: superintendent of public works, told me this)
: Quite a few cities sort out wood, lawn clippings, etc. from the waste
: stream and compost them, but if the compost is spread out in the area it is
: usually on agricultural land. Forests are too difficult to drive large
: machinery around in.
: Bruce.
Subject: Re: Major problem with climate predictions, WARNING: LONG BORING POST
From: "Mike Asher"
Date: 24 Oct 1996 06:38:22 GMT
Scott Nudds wrote:
>
> (John Moore) wrote:
> : Well, of course it isn't the *stated* policy except for the real loons
> : like EarthFirst (of whom we are fortunate to host a few in our jails).
>
> In other words, he can justify his statements with nothing but his
> personal faith.
>
If you'd read my original post, you would have found references and quotes
from the leaders, founders, and/or spokespeople of several environmental
groups, backing the statement that they are anti-technology, anti-growth,
anti-capitalist. Read it, then if you want to dispute it still, I'll post
yet some more proof.
> : Some of
> : these groups are headed by people whose statements and past history
> : are clearly and strongly anticapitalist.
>
> Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
Scott, you've managed to startle me. Immediately after attempting to
dispute our claim of the anti-capitalist mentality prevalent among
environmentalists, you contradict yourself with a statement like that. Are
you just posting to hear the little keys go click?
>
> : I think it is fair to characterize the more vocal of the environmental
> : groups as being anticapitalist.
>
> I thought you just said the leaders of these groups were in it for the
> money.
>
You're misunderstanding capitalism, of course. All the succesful
socialists get stinking rich. They just do it with money they've taken,
instead of money they've earned.
>
> Clearly the industry was operating on the understanding that trees
> would always be available. If this is not the case, then it is the
> industries fault for making such an assumption. If it is the case, then
> there should be plenty of trees not needed by spotted owls for the
> industry to harvest.
>
Interested in my posting study results showing that the Northern Spotted
Owl nests quite well in new growth forests, or even human-built wooden
shelters? Or will you just ignore it as well?
>
> True. Lets start metricizing... How much are your childrens lives
> worth to you? Assuming you set a dollar value on their lives, I
> take it that you will agree to having them murdered for that price plus
> one penny.
Bad tactic, there. Radiical environmentalists are rarely concerned with
human life.
I'll forbear (unless you ask) to post any of the dozens of case where
environmentalist scare tactics have claimed lives. I'll simply post a
couple comments from "respected" environmental leaders.
(after being asked about reincarnation)
"I would wish...to return as a killer virus to lower human population
levels"
- Prince Phillip, while leader of the World Wildlife Fund
"I got the impression that, instead of going out to shoot birds, I should
shoot the kids that shoot birds"
- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace
"If environmentalists were to invent a disease to bring human populations
back to sanity, it would probably be something like AIDS."
- from the Earth First newsletter, ref. December 1989
Yes, you radical environmentalists certainly do love life, don't you?
Subject: Data Available via the ORNL DAAC
From: Jerry Curry
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:38:03 -0400
Biogeochemical Dynamics - the ORNL DAAC
ORNL DAAC Home Page URL - http://www-eosdis.ornl.gov
The Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) Distributed Active Archive Center
(DAAC) for Biogeochemical Dynamics is an integral part of the nine NASA
Earth Observing Data and Information System (EOSDIS) DAACs. In general
terms, biogeochemical dynamics can be described as the biological and
chemical interactions among the elements that comprise the Earth system. The
DAAC is operated within the Environmental Sciences Division at ORNL with the
advantage of access to staff conducting research and assessments on
biogeochemical dynamics as related to global change issues. Data at the
ORNL DAAC are of interest to the global change research community, policy
makers, educators, and to the public at large.
Users may request information through the EOSDIS Wide Information Management
System (IMS), directly through the local ORNL DAAC IMS; through the
ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface, BIOME, or by contacting the User
Services Office. Access instructions are provided at the end of this
message.
-----------------
Data Availability
-----------------
The ORNL DAAC currently archives and distributes data from CDIAC
(Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center), from the FIFE, OTTER
& SNF research projects, and various hydrological data sets. Future
data holdings include information gathered from the BOREAS project.
Additionally, the ORNL DAAC is currently working with the FIFE Follow-on
project investigators to receive and distribute additional FIFE data.
A pilot project, coordinated with the International Geosphere Biosphere
Program (IGBP), has been initiated to develop a global terrestrial net
primary productivity reference database. Plans are also underway for
acquiring background data for an international Amazon Basin field
investigation. Additional information about our data holdings, both
current and future, are provided below.
-----
CDIAC
-----
The Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) provides information
related to atmospheric trace-gas concentrations and global climate change.
CDIAC is sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy to support the Global
Change Research Program and is located at ORNL. The preponderance of the
data deal with historic and atmospheric carbon dioxide and methane
concentrations and historic weather and climate readings from throughout the
world. Thus, CDIAC data are relevant to the DAAC user community.
CDIAC datasets are maintained by CDIAC; however, the user community can
access these data on-line through the EOSDIS System-Wide IMS, the ORNL
DAAC IMS, and the ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface, BIOME
----
FIFE
----
The First ISLSCP (International Satellite Land Surface Climatology Project)
Field Experiment (FIFE) was conducted on the Konza Prairie located just
outside of Manhattan, Kansas, USA, during the summer of 1987 and 1989. The
FIFE project is part of NASA's plan to develop a physically-based approach
to the use of satellite remote-sensing systems. Project data include:
fluxes of heat, moisture, CO2 and radiation measured with surface and
airborne equipment; soil moisture data; atmospheric boundary layer data;
vegetative indices; surface radiance and biological data; and satellite
measurements: AVHRR, LANDSAT, SPOT, GOES.
FIFE tabular data are available on-line through the local ORNL DAAC IMS,
the System-Wide IMS, and the ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface, BIOME.
-----
OTTER
-----
The purpose of the Oregon Transect Ecosystem Research (OTTER) Project was to
estimate major fluxes of carbon, nitrogen, and water in forest ecosystems
using an ecosystem-process model driven by remotely-sensed data. Study
sites included a coastal forest of western hemlock; a mid-elevation forest
of mature Douglas fir; and an inland forest of ponderosa. Meteorological
data and remotely-sensed measurements of foliar nitrogen and leaf area index
drove the model, while field measurements of monthly changes in canopy leaf
area, photosynthetic capacity, stomatal conductance, foliage biochemistry,
litterfall, and other components of plant production were used to validate
the model. Each site was instrumented for continuous measurement of surface
meteorology and monitored frequently for carbon exchange, nutrient cycling
rates, and water transport. ASAS, AVHRR, AVIRIS, TMS aircraft and satellite
measurements data were also compiled for the project.
OTTER tabular data are available on-line through the local ORNL DAAC IMS,
the System-Wide IMS, and the ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface,
BIOME.
--------------------------------------------------------
Hydrological Data Sets
(formerly held at the Marshall Space Flight Center DAAC)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Amazon River Basin Precipitation Data Set
This is a 0.2 degree gridded monthly precipitation data set from
January 1972 through December 1992, based upon monthly precipitation data
from Peru and Brazil. It includes empirical and modeling studies of
rainfall and runoff from sample hillslopes to the entire Amazon basin.
The purpose of the research project which generated these data was to
understand the biogeochemistry, hydrology, and sedimentation of the Amazon
River and its drainage basin. The Amazon was chosen as the first target
in the study of Earth's continental scale river systems, which represent
some of the largest and most dynamic environmental units on the planet.
- GISS Matthews Wetlands Database and Methane Emmission
This is a global database of wetlands a 1-degree resolution and
calculated methane emissions. The wetlands database was developed from
the integration of three independent global, digital sources:
(1) vegetation, (2) soil properties, and (3) fractional innundation in
each 1-degree cell. The integration yielded a global distribution of
wetland sites identified with in-situ ecological and environmental
characteristics. The wetland sites have been classed into five major
wetland groups on the basis of environmental characteristics governing
methane emissions. The global wetland area derived in this study is
~5.3 x 10(12) m(2), approximately twice the wetland area previously used
in methane-emission studies. Methane emission was calculated using
methane fluxes for the major wetland groups, and simple assumptions about
the duration of the methane-production season.
- Hydro-Climatic Data Network: Streamflow Data Set
A streamflow data set specifically suitable for the study of
surface-water conditions throughout the U.S. The data set consists of
streamflow records for 1,659 sites throughout the U.S. and its
Territories, for the period 1874-1988.
- Wallis, Lettenmaier, and Wood Hydroclimatology
A daily hydro-meterological data set for the continental U.S. The data
are from 1,009 USGS streamflow stations, and 1,036 NOAA climatological
stations, for which long term (1948-1988) observations have been
assembled into a consistent daily data set, with missing observations
estimated using a simple closest station prorating rule. Care was taken
in the selection of the streamflow stations to assure that the records
were free from regulation. The climatological stations are a subset of
the Historical Climatology Network (HCN) for which monthly data are
described by Quinlan et al (1987).
These data sets are available on-line through the local ORNL DAAC IMS,
the System-Wide IMS, and the ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface,
BIOME.
------------------------------
Superior National Forest (SNF)
------------------------------
This project conducted by NASA, was an intensive remote sensing and field
study of the boreal forest in the Superior National Forest (SNF), near Ely,
Minnesota. The purpose of the experiment was to investigate the ability of
remote sensing to provide estimates of biophysical properties of ecosystems,
such as leaf area index (LAI), biomass and net primary productivity (NPP).
The study area covered a 50 x 50 km area centered at approximately 48 degrees
North latitude and 92 degrees West longitude in northeastern Minnesota at the
southern edge of the North American boreal forest. The SNF is mostly covered by
boreal forest. Boreal forests were chosen for this project because of their
relative taxonomic simplicity, their great extent, and their potential
sensitivity to climatic change. Satellite, aircraft, helicopter and ground
observations were obtained for the study area. These data comprise a unique
dataset for the investigation of the relationships between the radiometric
and biophysical properties of vegetated canopies. This is perhaps the most
complete dataset of its type ever collected over a forested region. Detailed
vegetation data were collected on the ground for about 100 sampled sites. These
sites represent a range of stand density and age for spruce and aspen and also
include jackpine and mixed stands.
The SNF data sets are available through the local ORNL DAAC IMS, and the
ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface, BIOME. Access via the System-Wide
IMS is expected shortly.
------------------------------
Net Primary Productivity (NPP)
------------------------------
A global terrestrial Net Primary Production (NPP) reference database has
been compiled by the ORNL DAAC in coordination with the International
Geosphere Biosphere Program. Field measurements from worldwide sites
provide parameterization and validation data needed in support of modeling
global primary production and other applications. Currently there are
detailed biomass dynamics, climate, and site data for 13 grassland
representing 6 biomes in the database with over 150 site-year-treatment
combinations and an average of 30 years of climate data for each site. An
important component of the database is an abstract of each site with
investigator contact information and a list of key references for each site.
The 13 NPP data sets are available through the local ORNL DAAC IMS, and the
ORNL DAAC WWW Search & Order Interface, BIOME. Access via the System-Wide
IMS is expected shortly.
------
BOREAS
------
The Boreal Ecosystem-Atmosphere Study (BOREAS) was initiated in 1990 to
investigate the interactions between the boreal forest biome and the
atmosphere. Surface, airborne, and satellite based observations are being
used to develop techniques to measure biological and physical processes and
conditions that govern the exchanges of energy, water, heat, carbon, and
trace gases between boreal forest ecosystems and the atmosphere,
particularly those processes that may be sensitive to global change.
Remote-sensing techniques, along with field measurements, are being used to
develop and test models and algorithms in order to transfer the
understanding of processes from the local to regional scale. The
investigation is being conducted in the boreal forest of Canada and is
scheduled for completion in 1997. Intensive Field Campaigns (IFCs) were
conducted throughout the summer of 1994.
BOREAS data will be transferred to the ORNL DAAC as the investigators
complete documentation, quality assurance, and within-project integration
and verification.
------------------------
World Wide Web Home Page
------------------------
The ORNL DAAC World Wide Web (WWW) Home Page contains detailed information
regarding the ORNL DAAC, EOSDIS, data holdings, and links to many other
relevant sources of information. The ORNL Home Page can be accessed at the
following location:
http://www-eosdis.ornl.gov
-------------------
Accessing ORNL Data
-------------------
Users can search and order data through the EOSDIS System-Wide IMS linked to
all of the DAAC's or through the ORNL DAAC IMS, which is tailored to meet
needs of users seeking ecologically-related data specifically held at
the ORNL DAAC. In order to access either IMS systems via a Graphical
User Interface (GUI), you must be using either a workstation or a PC/MAC
running X-terminal emulation software.
To access the EOSDIS System-Wide IMS: telnet eosims.ornl.gov 12345
To access the ORNL DAAC IMS: telnet ornlims.ornl.gov 6493
Also, the ORNL DAAC offers access to its data products through BIOME, the
Biogeochemical Information Ordering Management Environment. BIOME is
the ORNL DAAC World Wide Web (WWW) based interface and users may search
for data by performing a variety of different searches including:
keyword, subject name, geographic name, geographic region selection from
a map, or by data attributes (dataset name, investigator, project,
parameter, sensor, or source).
The URL for BIOME is:
http://www-eosdis.ornl.gov/BIOME/biome.html
Data are available from the ORNL DAAC on a wide variety of media formats.
Both OTTER and FIFE data are currently available on a 5 volume CD-ROM set.
Wallis, Lettenmaier, and Wood Hydroclimatology and Hydro-Climatic Data
Network: Streamflow Data Set are also available on CD-ROM.
Please contact the ORNL DAAC User Services Office for additional information.
Merilyn J. Gentry
Jerry W. Curry
ORNL DAAC User Services Office
P.O. Box 2008, MS 6490
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6490
Voice: 423-241-3952 Fax: 423-574-4665
Internet: ornldaac@ornl.gov or ornl@eos.nasa.gov
Updated 09/16/96
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Curry - Research Associate curryjw@ornl.gov
ORNL DAAC User Services Office (423)241-3952 (Ph)
P.O. Box 2008, MS 6407 (423)574-4665 (Fax)
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6407
ORNL DAAC Home Page URL - http://www-eosdis.ornl.gov
Export Compliance: This information made available under the General
Technical Data Available (GTDA) general license.
------------------------------------------------------
Subject: PRESS: Nader in CA (INT)
From: larry@salata.com (Larry Fletcher)
Date: 22 Oct 96 22:52:30
Copyright 1996 The Chronicle Publishing Co.
The San Francisco Chronicle
OCTOBER 13, 1996, SUNDAY, SUNDAY EDITION
SECTION: ;Pg. 3/Z1; SUNDAY INTERVIEW
LENGTH: 2760 words
HEADLINE: Public Citizen Number One
For 30 years, Ralph Nader has been the conscience of corporate America
BYLINE: Debra J. Saunders, Chronicle Staff Writer
BODY:
At the age of 32, Ralph Nader became America's David, testifying before
Congress and triumphing over corporate Goliath General Motors. The year was
1966, and Nader's book, ''Unsafe at Any Speed,'' which attacked the safety of
Chevrolet's Corvair, had so upset GM that -- he told a congressional committee
-- it had hired a private investigator to tail the clean-living Nader and dig
up dirt on him.
Instead, it was the auto industry that came out looking dirty, and -- after
Nader's testimony -- Congress passed important auto safety legislation.
President Lyndon Johnson invited Nader to the White House for the signing
ceremony. Since 1966, Nader has continued to be a gadfly to corporate America;
many credit his constant crusading for the more recent requirement that new
cars feature air bags.
Nader hasn't won every battle he has fought, but he has been successful in
cloning himself. He has inspired a number of young crusaders, dubbed Nader's
Raiders, who can be found throughout government agencies and public interest
groups, sticking up for the little guy.
This year, Nader won the Green Party nomination and is running a quiet
campaign for president. He has pledged not to spend more than $ 5,000 on his
bare-bones campaign.
.
Q: Why are you running for president?
A: For three reasons. One, I want to try to broaden the agenda of public
discourse to include what President Clinton and Bob Dole will never talk about
-- such as the role of global corporate power in our political, economic,
cultural and media institutions; the epidemic of corporate crime, fraud and
abuse; the rip-off of the taxpayers' assets in Washington by corporate
influence; the expanded amount of corporate welfare that is going on, in terms
of subsidies and giveaways and bailouts; and the need for serious campaign
finance reform and for attention to strengthening our democracy so that the
people shape the future.
Second is to bring more young people into progressive politics. They're
dangerously turned off to politics.
And third, to help the Green Party to qualify as an official party on more
state ballots for future elections, so that never again will the Democratic
Party -- or even the Republican Party -- be able to say to millions of
Americans that they have nowhere to go except to vote for Tweedledum,
Tweedledee -- Republican, Democrat -- or stay home and not vote.
Q: I've heard a lot of people say they are angry at you because they feel
you could hurt Bill Clinton and possibly cost him the election. What do you say
to that?
A: In New Hampshire, when I ran as a noncandidate -- none-of-the- above -- I
got 52 percent of my write-in votes in 1992 from Republicans and 48 percent
from Democrats -- which is about the split in the registration proportion in
that state.
So it's not at all clear that whatever votes go for my candidacy are going
to disproportionately come from Democrats. They could come from people who
don't vote usually, but this time come out to vote. They could come from
Republicans who feel that there's too much corporate power compromising and
that corporate values are undermining family values, especially the massive
dose of violent entertainment affecting pre-teenage children in America.
I'm trying to help build a new political party and progressive force in
America. If that's your priority, you don't worry about taking votes away from
the political parties that you're trying to displace. In the 1850s, the
Republicans didn't worry about taking votes away from the Whigs.
And I think only Clinton can beat himself. He's too unprincipled to lose to
Dole and he is quite far ahead now in the polls.
Q: How is the Democratic Party captive to corporate America? And how is Bill
Clinton?
A: Well, they get a huge amount of their money from the same corporate
interests.
A lot of people in politics want to get high-paying jobs after they leave
government. They don't want to be known as anti-business. And there are very
few countervailing forces that are able to make the Democrats stand more
upright for the people. The trade union movement is weak and has other
infirmities. Churches are not in the lead on a lot of progressive issues
anymore. They can't even take on gambling.
Q: You wouldn't endorse the Green Party platform -- particularly its
endorsement of homosexual marriages.
A: Well, there's about 120 different topics, and I'm not informed about a
lot of them. So I don't take stands on things I'm not informed about. Also, I
don't want to blur the focus of what I'm trying to do. I want to focus on
strengthening democracy in concrete ways, concerning the various roles people
play -- voter, citizen, consumer, taxpayer, worker, shareholder, investor. The
other focus is on corporate power.
Q: What about abortion rights?
A: I'm not taking any positions like that. I'm not talking about
social-relation issues. I'm not talking about issues like Haiti or North Korea
because I don't want to blur the focus.
Q: The Wall Street Journal has criticized you for failing to disclose your
contributions in not releasing your tax returns. Why haven't you done that?
A: First of all, tax returns are a matter of privacy between individuals and
the U.S. Treasury. They are inappropriate vehicles for political candidates to
disclose and breach the -- what I think should be -- impenetrable protection of
privacy. For 30 years I have supported the right of privacy -- whether for
medical data, credit information, tax information -- and I want to practice
what I preach.
Now the only appropriate vehicle for disclosure in my judgment for political
candidates is the Government Ethics Act. It has a $ 5,000 threshold. I will
spend less than $ 5,000 and not become a candidate under the definition of the
Government Ethics Act.
Q: But clearly you understand that people look at this and say, ''Well, he's
a consumer advocate. He always advocates disclosure for other people. Why not
do it himself?''
A: First of all, I advocate disclosure that is required by law and I'm
complying with that law -- which doesn't require me to disclose. Second of
all, I want to emphasize the no-money-in-politics campaign that I'm standing
for.
Q: If you were president, how would you run things differently? For
example, let's start with the Department of Transportation.
A: I would make its mission safety, No. 1 -- whether it's aviation, highway
safety, motor vehicle safety. It isn't No. 1 now. It's basically a department
that's a consulting firm to the motor vehicle industry and all its component
parts -- trucking industry, automobile manufacturers, the highway lobby, etc.
It's not enforcing the law. I would enforce the law.
I would dramatically expand investment in modern public transit. Instead of
spending billions keeping our boys in Europe and East Asia to defend against
nonexistent enemies on behalf of prosperous countries, I'd put that money into
job production for public transit and other public works, like schools,
clinics, sewage systems and drinking water systems.
Q: What about the Department of Justice? How would you run that differently?
A: I'd emphasize the word justice. David Burnham has just written a book on
the Department of Justice detailing how special influences distort the mission
of the department and how its priorities are not in the area of corporate
crime, fraud and abuse.
I would emphasize anti-trust enforcement. Pro-competitive policies are
essential for small business innovators and entrepreneurs to have a fair shake
at becoming significant factors of production in our country.
Q: How would you manage the Department of Education differently?
A: I would put a very high priority on getting schools to teach civic
education and connecting the classroom with the community. Under adult
supervision -- including teacher supervision -- getting youngsters, even as
young as the fifth and sixth grades, not to mention high school, community
colleges, colleges, to learn how to practice democracy, to connect knowledge to
action. To help people grow up civic instead of growing up corporate -- before
the TV sets and the videos -- is an important function of the Department of
Education.
Our education system is becoming very vocational and very
occupation-oriented, which is OK if it is not disproportionate and if it
doesn't squeeze out the most important role of education, which is civic.
I also would emphasize consumer education. Children are spending more and
more money directly -- under 12 years of age they spent $ 12 billion last year,
and they caused their parents to spend $ 150 billion. They need a consumer
perspective, how to become a smart shopper.
Q: How would you rate NAFTA? I know you opposed it.
A: NAFTA has turned out worse than we predicted. First of all, nobody
predicted that the U.S. gov ernment would have to have a package of $ 50
billion to bail out the crooked Mexican government regime and its billionaire
oligarchs. No. 2, NAFTA promised us more jobs. We've lost almost 400,000 jobs
because we now have moved from a trade surplus in Mexico to probably a $ 10
billion trade deficit. And we have a deficit. We're exporting jobs -- probably
about 350,000 to 400,000 jobs.
Thirdly, it's turned out badly for most of the Mexican people; they're
poorer, they're more unemployed and they are ravaged by a vicious inflation.
And fourthly, the borders are a nightmare; more smuggling, more pollution, more
infectious diseases. The environmental commissions are toothless.
Q: Do you think Americans are ta xed too much, too little, or just right?
A: Well, corporations are undertaxed. That's been reported repeatedly. There
have been corporations in the last 20 years who make hundreds of millions of
dollars, pay no taxes, or 1 percent tax, or 3 percent tax. Or if they owe taxes
on export profits, they have been deferred to have their taxes forgiven by
special- interest legislation.
In the 1950s, the corporate income tax was 25 percent of the federal outlay;
it's now about 6 or 7 percent. This is in a period of record corporate profits,
record stock market prices, record executive compensation. The corporations are
not contributing their fair share to the tax pool. As a matter of fact, I
suspect that if you took all the corporate welfare and then took all the
corporate income taxes paid, the aggregate would be zero taxes paid. So that
leaves the burden on, largely, middle-income and lower-income Americans.
No one can justify General Electric making $ 6.5 billion between 1981 and
1983, paying no taxes and getting a $ 150 million refund through the safe
harbor mechanism that was then law. A single worker at General Electric paid
more taxes in one week to the federal government than the entire company. We
just can't have that kind of disparity.
Q: Would you support something like a flat tax?
A: No. I would simplify the tax bill but always keep progressivity in there.
First of all, it's hard to find a major fortune in America that hasn't
benefited by special-interest legislation -- whether gross tax is imposed,
corporate welfare, monopoly licenses that shouldn't be, and S&L; bailouts. So
when people ask, ''Why should the rich pay a larger percent of their income
than middle-income people?'' -- my answer is not an answer most people get:
It's because their power developed from laws that enriched them.
Q: Who do you like in politics?
A: Representative Henry Waxman (D-Los Angeles) is an exception to the merits
of term limits. Term limits, I believe, should be imposed at 12 years and out
because I think after 12 years legislators either sell out or wear out. Henry
Waxman is an exception.
Representative Ed Markey of Massachusetts, although he's beginning to slip,
he's beginning to kind of give up. But he's still a good person. In terms of
voting records, John Conyers of Michigan, Peter DeFazio in Oregon.
Q: Are the American people getting the government they deserve?
A: They're getting the government that their level of civic energy has
produced. They need to expand dramatically their civic energy and not let a few
active citizens hold up the democracy for the rest of them, because they can't
bear that burden.
Democracy is like a tree. The elected officials are the twigs and the
political parties are the branches and the people are the trunk and the roots.
And we all know what happens to a tree when the roots are not adequately
fertilized.
Q: The people who come to see you, are they older? Are they younger? Is
there a trait they share?
A: Let's put it this way. There are two categories of injustice in any
society: One is discriminatory injustice, against race, color, creed, gender,
etc. The other is indiscriminate injustice.
My work in consumer, environmental, workplace and government reform deals
with indiscriminate injustice. When you work in indiscriminate injustice,
everybody wants their defective car to be recalled and fixed. You tend to
appeal to a broader spectrum of the American people. And so I find people who
call themselves conservatives supporting a lot of the positions I've taken, as
well as people who call themselves liberals.
I think we need in our country to put more attention on indiscriminate
injustice, because while it is important to focus on discriminatory injustice,
if you just do that, you tend to divide the country. So you need a force that
not only abolishes gross, discriminatory injustice, but unifies the country
against indis criminate injustice. Anybody can join bank groups, consumer
groups. They're voluntarily funded. It doesn't cost the taxpayer anything.
Everybody is a customer of banks, directly or indirectly. Everybody is a
consumer of insurance, electricity, telephone, gas, pollution.
Q: There are some corporate people who will read this interview and say,
''Why does he think we're all evil?''
A: I don't. First, I've noticed in my historical readings and my
observations that bad business practices, if left uncorrected, will drive out
good business practices. A simple example is if an orange juice company
adulterates its orange juice in ways that are really impossible to detect, it
will disadvantage the orange juice group company that doesn't -- because it
will have more money to spend to advertise against its competitors. If
insurance companies get away with making money by deceiving people, it's going
to put the honest insurance company at a disadvantage.
I have seen major business people take courageous stands. The head of
Allstate back in the '70s went strong for air bags. Saul Price -- the founder
of the Price Clubs -- has come out for a 1 percent tax on wealthy people, on
wealth
-- even though he's very wealthy. Jerry Wilson, head of Soloflex, has come out
for a major public works program.
Q: Why would a man who owns an airline send up a bad plane?
A: He wouldn't. He would indirectly cause a bad plane to go up by saying,
''Let's cut down on our maintenance for the bottom line. Let's reduce the
number of inspectors. Let's fight to keep the FAA from monitoring the planes.
Because we want to make more money.''
Q. If you're going to run for president, why not run all the way? If you're
limiting yourself to $ 5,000, you're admitting at the start that you can't win.
A: I don't think more money would do much more. What would you use the money
for? I don't believe in superficial rallies with the two arms held up with the
candidate.
I'm not interested in a superficial razzmatazz of a political movement. I'm
interested in people all over the United States building their own epicenters
of democratic reforms -- small d.
RALPH NADER
* 1934: Born February 27 in Winsted, Conn.
* 1955: Graduated magna cum laude from Princeton University.
* 1958: Received law degree from Harvard University.
* 1965: Author of ''Unsafe at Any Speed,'' which attacked the safety of the
Chevrolet Corvair.
* 1966: Testified before a Congressional Committee and disclosed that
General Motors had hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on him.
* 1971: Founded the public interest group Public Citizen.
* 1986: Co-authored ''The Big Boys: Styles of Corporate Power.''
* 1988: Supported Proposition 103, the auto insurance initiative, passed by
California voters.
* 1996: Won Green Party's nomination for president of the United States.
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