Subject: Re: Brashears on Hanson
From: samhall@dkdavis.com (Sam Hall)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:43:35 GMT
On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:10:17 -0800, "D. Braun"
wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 27 Dec 1996, Sam Hall wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:57:04 -0700, Jim wrote:
>>
>> >Sam Hall wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 25 Dec 1996 12:06:46 -0700, Jim wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Sam Hall wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:11:15 -0700, Jim wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >John McCarthy wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Damn! I didn't keep the reference, but I saw a recent article
>> >> >> >> claiming that almost all forest, including Amazon forest was profoundly
>> >> >> >> influenced by human activity. Maybe it was in _Science_ but more
>> >> >> >> likely in _Science News_, since I checked recent issues of _Science_.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >That is correct. Indian peoples have played a significant role in the
>> >> >> >ecology of many new world ecosystems. But judging from the biological
>> >> >> >richness of amazonian areas still inhabited only by indians, their
>> >> >> >effect on the forest is far more benign than that of europeans.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That stands to reason since they have had very little effect on
>> >> >> anything including themselves. Short, brutal lives. Are you suggesting
>> >> >> that we should be more like them?
>> >> >>
>> >> >No. But their land-management practices and methods of sustainable
>> >> >harvest are something we should strive for.
>> >>
>> >> Why? So we can live like they do? No thank you.
>> >>
>> >No. So that we can protect the earth while meeting our own needs.
>>
>> My needs include things like modern medicine and my wants include
>> things like Internet access. To have things like this a society must:
>> 1) Produce enough profit that children do not have to work.
>> 2) Have enough wealth to operate a school system.
>> 3) Have enough profit to buy the products these educated children (now
>> adults) are producing.
>> Of course, there is much more to building a modern society, but those
>> are the first steps and the Amazon Indians can't do them because they
>> do not produce enough.
>>
>> Sam
>
>Sam, you are starting to bug me. What bugs me are your pronouncements
>on the "Amazon Indians" without knowing much about them. Tell us, what
>are the names of just three tribes? What is the greatest threat to tribal
>and individual health and lifespan? I'll tell you. The root problem is not
>that "they do not produce enough". The root problem is that for much of
>their modern history, they have been subject to cultural and at times,
>literal genocide. The current problem is enforcement of the demarcated
>Indian land boundaries, and government supported health-care to combat
>introduced diseases. The long-term problem is respect for the Indians'
>efforts at modernization, and entrance into the cash economy at their own
>pace. Oh, and the tribes include the Xingu, Yanomami, and Creen-akoree
>(spelling may be off on the last one).
>
> Dave Braun
>
>
Any group of people that "have been subject to cultural and at times,
literal genocide" are a failure. If they were not they would have not
allowed it Tough language, but the truth. The rules in this world are
what the strong want them to be and all the " things should be___" are
just whining.
I assume you know what nature does with failures?
Sam
--
Samuel L. Hall
Systems Engineer
(communications systems)
