Newsgroup sci.geo.geology 33169

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Subject: Oxygen Isotopes O17/O16 v O18/O16
From: mvcs@gramercy.ios.com (Jeff Baldwin)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 05:40:14 GMT

I've heard that O17/O16 and O18/O16 ratios are unique and highly
stable for a given planet or planetoid body. Each body is suppose to
have a unique trend of these ratios which is a function of
fractionation at the time the bodies where formed. Subsequent
processes do not disturbe the ratios although the individual elemental
abundances may very wildly.
Earth has such a trend line. Rocks from anywhere on the planet from
any time period of Earth's history may be analized and these O ratios
will always fall on the same trend line. It is said that O ratios from
Moon rocks falls on the Earth's trend line. Supposed Mars meteorites
do not fall on Earth's trend line and there are apparently a total of
about 20 or so recognized trends upon which all rocks and meteorites
fall.
I've worked with O isotope data as a petrophysicist doing elemental
analysis and using elemental analysis to geochemically reconstruct
rocks (and training neural nets to obtain elemental abundances
directly from spectra of various types). But I've not heard about the
O17/O16 vs O18/O16 plots which supposedly show very stable trends. 
Is it true that these O ratios are unique and show a very tight trend
for Earth rocks? References?
Jeffrey L. Baldwin, Mind & Vision Computer Systems
"Intelligent Processing Systems for the Energy Industry"
Voice/Fax/Data: (713) 550-4534     email: mvcs@gramercy.ios.com
http://www.worldenergy.solutions/WorldEnergy/Companies/Mind&Vision;/Mind&Vision.HTML;

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Subject: Weekly USGS Quake Report 8/29-9/4/96
From: michael@garlock.wr.usgs.gov (Andy Michael)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:32:33 GMT

NOTE: 5 or more maps will follow this post.
If you don't want to read them all the subjects include
the phrase "USGS Quake Map" for your killing convenience.
DISCLAIMER -- THIS IS NOT AN EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION OR WARNING!
  The commentary provided with these map(s) is for INFORMATIONAL
USE ONLY, and SHOULD NOT be construed as an earthquake prediction,
warning, or advisory.  Responsibility for such warnings rests with
the Office of Emergency Services of the State of California.
PLEASE REMEMBER -- THESE ARE PRELIMINARY DATA
  Releasing these summaries on a timely basis requires that the
data, analysis, and interpretations presented are PRELIMINARY. Of
necessity they can only reflect the views of the seismologists who
prepared them, and DO NOT carry the endorsement of the U.S.G.S.
Thus while every effort is made to ensure that the information is
accurate, nothing contained in this report is to be construed as
and earthquake prediction, warning, advisory, or official policy
statement of any kind, of the U.S. Geological Survey, or the
U.S. Government.
FOR QUESTIONS CONCERNING THIS REPORT
  Send e-mail to michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov
  DO NOT SEND EMAIL TO weekly@garlock.wr.usgs.gov  It will not be read.
Seismicity Report for Northern California,
the Nation, and the World for the week of
, 1996
 Stephen R. Walter
U.S. Geological Survey
345 Middlefield Rd.  MS-977, Menlo Park, CA  94025
San Francisco Bay Area
    During the seven-day period ending at midnight on September 4, 1996,
the U.S. Geological Survey office in Menlo Park recorded 26 earthquakes of
magnitude one (M1) and greater within the San Francisco Bay area shown in
Figure 1.  Four were as large as M2.  this total compares to 32
earthquakes during the previous seven-day period (August 22- 29), three of
which were as large as M2.
   The two largest events both occurred on the creeping segment of the San
Andreas about four miles northwest of San Juan Bautista (#2/1).  The first
and largest, a M2.7, occurred early Sunday morning.  It was followed by a
slightly smaller M2.6 on Monday evening.
   The Calaveras was relatively quiet with two events on the central
section of the fault.  The first, a M2.4, occurred Sunday morning just
east of San Jose (#3/1).  It was followed Monday afternoon by a M2.0
eleven miles north of Morgan Hill (#4/2).  The only other activity of note
was a small cluster of eight small earthquakes southeast of Hollister, the
largest of which were a pair of M1.9 events (#1/1).     
Northern & Central California
   Cape Mendocino once again was the most active area in the region.  Two
M3 events occurred last Thursday and Friday just north of the fracture
zone (#2/2). The first, a M3.6, occurred  about 30 miles west of Punta
Gorda; the second, a M3.2, occurred about 40 miles west.  Onshore, two
small but deep M2.1 earthquakes reflected ongoing deformation of the
subducting Gorda Plate.  The first occurred early last Friday morning
about 12 miles southeast of Eureka at depth of about 22 km (#4/2). It was
followed Sunday afternoon by a 20-km-deep event centered about 33 miles
southeast of Petrolia (#8/2).  
   In the northern Sacramento Valley a pair of M2 earthquakes occurred
last Thursday night about 20 miles west of Orland (#3/2). On Wednesday a
M2.0 occurred beneath the central Valley about 13 miles southwest of Chico
(#9/2).  Activity in the Coast Range included a pair of M3's at the
Geysers geothermal area (#7/2) and a pair of M2's near the southern end of
the Maacama fault (#6/2).  
   Central California was fairly quiet with four M2 events along the
creeping segment of the San Andreas, the two largest both just north of
Pinnacles National Monument (#5/2).  The only activity of note along the
eastern Sierra Nevada range was a small cluster last Thursday morning in
the Markleeville area that included a M3.1 earthquake, the largest event
in this area since a M4.3 on June 26 (#1/2).  
Long Valley Caldera
  Activity remained sparse in the Long Valley area with a pair of small
M2's in the caldera just southeast of Mammoth Lakes (#2/3) and a M2.0 near
the outlet to Lake Crowley (#1/3).
USA Seismicity (August 28 - September 5)
   The most notable domestic earthquake during the week was a M5.7 in the
Andreanof Islands of the central Aleutians (#2/5).  The earthquakes was
felt sharply on Adak but apparently produced no significant damage.  A
M4.8 on the Alaskan Peninsula was felt at Chignik, Ivanof Bay, and
Perryville.  
   In the lower 48 states, the only notable events reported by NEIC were a
M3.4 along the southern California border (#1/4) and a pair of M3's in the
southern Owens Valley area (#2,#3/4). 
The Planet Earth  (August 28 - September 5)
   The largest earthquake on the planet during the week was a Ms7.1 along
the East Pacific Rise, about 400 miles northeast of Easter Island (#5/5). 
It was followed by a pair off M5 aftershocks.  No damage was reported from
any of these earthquakes.  The only other large earthquake on the planet
was a Ms6.1 west of Macquarie Island, south of Australia (#1/5).  Moderate
earthquakes of note include a M5.7 south of the Mariana Islands (#3/5)
and a M5.9 near the west coast of Costa Rica (#4/5).
Table 1. Northern & Central California Seismicity (M>1.0)
--ORIGIN TIME (UT)-- -LAT N-- --LON W-- DEPTH  N N RMS ERH ERZ       DUR
YR MON DA HRMN  SEC  DEG MIN  DEG  MIN    KM  RD S SEC  KM  KM REMKS MAG
96 AUG 29  727 47.75 37 29.73 118 52.08  6.78 29   .09  .3  .6 MOR   1.8
96 AUG 29  930 40.43 38 49.16 122 48.57  3.57  9   .04  .3  .8 GEY   1.4
96 AUG 29  945  9.59 38 50.46 122 47.80  1.49 17   .05  .2  .6 GEY   1.8
96 AUG 29 1101 38.11 36 47.02 121 20.73  2.31 14   .05  .3  .5 HOL   1.2
96 AUG 29 1156 26.27 37 34.97 118 42.74 11.31 31 1 .07  .3  .7 CAS   2.1
96 AUG 29 1221 29.25 38 44.99 122 43.66  1.97 35   .12  .2  .5 GEY   2.4
96 AUG 29 1344 56.41 38 42.65 119 38.60  8.95 24 1 .10  .4 1.7 WAK   3.3
96 AUG 29 1401 56.81 38 42.55 119 38.42  9.38 22 2 .11  .5 1.3 WAK   2.5
96 AUG 29 1504 43.31 39 35.34 123 22.31  7.01 12   .07  .3  .8 MAA   1.2
96 AUG 29 1550  1.11 40 27.71 124 22.98 16.49 14 1 .04  .6  .3 MEN   3.0
96 AUG 29 1612 59.50 38 49.18 122 48.35  5.29 17   .15  .4 1.4 GEY#  2.0
96 AUG 29 2104 29.83 36 47.06 121 20.76  2.71 44 1 .07  .2  .3 HOL   1.9
96 AUG 29 2135 48.70 36 47.05 121 20.59  2.54  9 1 .04  .5  .6 HOL   1.1
96 AUG 29 2236 49.70 36 46.99 121 20.63  2.31 10 1 .05  .4  .5 HOL   1.2
96 AUG 30  143 19.77 38 42.89 119 38.94  7.35 41 3 .13  .4 1.2 WAK   2.7
96 AUG 30  212 28.20 40 31.43 124 48.48 12.79 77   .22  .9 1.7 EUR   3.6
96 AUG 30  230 53.45 39 42.73 122 36.86 15.05 22 1 .09  .3  .5 SAC   2.4
96 AUG 30  458  9.64 40 15.51 123 51.50 31.76 19 1 .09  .4 1.0 MEN   1.9
96 AUG 30  525 22.63 38 46.22 122 43.77  1.90 21   .07  .2  .4 GEY   2.0
96 AUG 30  525 40.80 37 37.08 118 50.66  6.91  8   .05  .4 1.0 SMO   1.3
96 AUG 30  556 22.77 40 18.50 124 36.38 18.99 11 1 .20 3.6 1.0 MEN   1.9
96 AUG 30  645 31.74 40 37.15 124 17.20 17.97 14 1 .07  .5  .6 EUR   1.7
96 AUG 30  706 24.16 39 42.70 122 37.21 14.56 16 1 .07  .6  .6 SAC   2.0
96 AUG 30  832 57.27 39 36.68 122  0.96 19.16 12 1 .11 1.2 1.1 SAC   1.6
96 AUG 30 1036 40.04 37 32.08 118 50.09  9.14 16   .08  .4  .8 MOR   1.0
96 AUG 30 1041  0.82 37 32.12 118 50.03  8.91 23   .08  .4  .6 MOR   1.3
96 AUG 30 1205 57.38 38 49.48 122 48.10  3.61  9   .02  .3  .8 GEY   1.4
96 AUG 30 1241 45.18 40 38.23 123 52.33 21.75 19 1 .12  .4  .5 EUR   2.1
96 AUG 30 1411 18.22 38 51.88 119 38.50 12.86 12   .08  .7 4.0 WAK   2.3
96 AUG 30 1452  8.92 36 35.27 121 10.84  6.18 56 1 .08  .1  .4 PIN   2.6
96 AUG 30 2205 48.32 36 22.42 121  1.37  0.53 10   .04  .3  .6 BIT   1.8
96 AUG 30 2215 55.24 40 25.41 125  0.40  0.63 22   .19 2.6 6.5 MEN # 2.5
96 AUG 30 2242 19.72 37 35.02 121 44.73  6.81 16 4 .06  .3  .8 HAM   1.1
96 AUG 30 2250 55.90 40 25.44 125  7.10  6.72 47   .14  .9 2.3 MEN   3.2
96 AUG 31  119 23.54 37 28.26 118 52.34  6.57 22   .09  .4  .9 MOR   1.8
96 AUG 31  138 52.08 37 47.73 121 44.46 12.97 12   .06  .5 1.0 GRN   1.2
96 AUG 31  229 44.33 36 34.07 121  9.28  3.90 42 1 .07  .2  .5 PIN   2.1
96 AUG 31  337 59.25 38 49.57 122 47.91  4.06  9   .03  .3  .9 GEY   1.4
96 AUG 31  339 28.46 38 49.50 122 47.93  5.25 17   .07  .3  .6 GEY   1.7
96 AUG 31  452 42.24 37 30.36 118 52.44  6.54 22   .09  .3  .5 MOR   1.4
96 AUG 31  709 41.01 36 43.30 121 21.49  6.13  8   .02  .4  .8 STN    .8
96 AUG 31  829  1.44 35 43.92 121 29.99  2.80  9   .05 1.0 2.4 SSM # 1.7
96 AUG 31  847 16.30 36 39.66 121 17.12  7.38 44 1 .06  .2  .4 STN   1.8
96 AUG 31  858 57.17 37 32.14 118 50.10  9.13 24   .07  .3  .6 MOR   1.5
96 AUG 31  948 39.83 36 44.79 121 24.33  7.09 28   .17  .4  .7 SJB   1.5
--ORIGIN TIME (UT)-- -LAT N-- --LON W-- DEPTH  N N RMS ERH ERZ       DUR
YR MON DA HRMN  SEC  DEG MIN  DEG  MIN    KM  RD S SEC  KM  KM REMKS MAG
96 AUG 31 1202 29.60 36 33.91 121  9.37  3.77 15   .04  .2  .6 PIN   1.2
96 AUG 31 1214 42.86 38  1.06 118 25.35  0.21 40 1 .09  .4 1.7 MOL # 2.6
96 AUG 31 1252 14.66 38  1.17 118 26.10  1.70 11   .10 1.2 8.1 MOL # 1.8
96 AUG 31 1316  3.18 38 50.73 122 45.62  0.04  7   .18  .6 2.9 GEY # 1.0
96 AUG 31 1342 42.75 37 35.18 118 49.37  6.52  8   .08  .7  .9 MOR   1.0
96 AUG 31 1414 23.19 38 49.47 122 48.39  3.95  8   .03  .4  .8 GEY   1.1
96 AUG 31 1536 48.12 38 47.89 122 49.09  1.64  8   .04  .3  .6 GEY   1.5
96 AUG 31 1656  6.52 36 46.94 121 20.54  2.39 12   .04  .3  .7 HOL   1.2
96 AUG 31 1814 50.53 38 45.01 122 41.86  2.27 22   .11  .2  .5 NAP   1.8
96 AUG 31 1957 52.03 36 44.88 121 24.24  6.95 43 1 .18  .3  .5 SJB   1.8
96 AUG 31 2102 50.39 37 38.31 118 56.29  5.73 23 4 .09  .3  .4 SMO   1.1
96 AUG 31 2102 59.34 37 38.29 118 56.26  6.21 17 2 .07  .4  .4 SMO    .8
96 AUG 31 2108 41.12 37 38.01 118 55.71  4.04  8   .11  .5 1.0 SMO   1.4
96 AUG 31 2113 48.41 37 38.17 118 56.10  1.31  9   .15  .4  .5 SMO   1.1
96 AUG 31 2114 25.86 37 37.53 118 54.05  0.02  8   .50 1.3 2.0 SMO # 1.6
96 AUG 31 2115 25.68 37 38.71 118 55.31  0.02  7   .24  .6 1.0 SMO # 1.1
96 AUG 31 2119 35.53 37 38.43 118 56.29  5.01  8   .04  .4  .7 SMO   1.5
96 AUG 31 2124 52.63 37 38.30 118 56.59  5.47  8   .09  .5 1.1 SMO   2.4
96 AUG 31 2125 56.21 37 38.01 118 56.64  6.11 23   .10  .3  .5 SMO   1.6
96 AUG 31 2128 29.67 37 38.02 118 56.09  6.75 11   .08  .5  .8 SMO   2.1
96 AUG 31 2132  1.84 37 38.04 118 56.11  6.28 10   .12  .6 1.1 SMO   1.5
96 AUG 31 2132 25.71 37 38.68 118 56.38  5.14  8   .03  .5  .8 SMO   1.4
96 AUG 31 2137 57.03 37 38.20 118 55.99  5.70  8   .09  .5 1.0 SMO   1.2
96 AUG 31 2139 58.44 37 38.02 118 56.56  6.20 26 1 .10  .3  .4 SMO   1.6
96 AUG 31 2140 30.58 37 37.95 118 56.52  6.97 22 1 .10  .3  .5 SMO   1.2
96 AUG 31 2144 54.49 37 21.43 121 43.20  8.14 54 3 .07  .1  .4 ALU   1.9
96 AUG 31 2149 28.56 37 38.15 118 55.94  6.53  8   .12  .6  .9 SMO   1.3
96 AUG 31 2159 24.97 37 37.90 118 55.98  6.38 11   .10  .6  .8 SMO   1.3
96 AUG 31 2245 30.10 37 38.20 118 56.03  6.98 21   .10  .4  .6 SMO   1.5
96 AUG 31 2314 40.23 37 38.20 118 55.76  6.75 12   .08  .5  .0 SMO   1.4
96 SEP  1    5 22.84 37 38.45 118 56.38  3.95  7   .04  .4  .8 SMO   1.0
96 SEP  1  109  8.55 37 36.17 122 27.14  7.45 10 1 .04  .5  .8 SFP   1.0
96 SEP  1  129 57.51 36 32.94 121  8.45  5.64 10 1 .04  .3  .9 PIN   1.0
96 SEP  1  206 33.76 38 47.50 122 46.71  1.59  9   .02  .3  .6 GEY   1.4
96 SEP  1  606 26.47 37 28.94 118 22.92  7.74 11   .04  .4 1.1 CHV   1.3
96 SEP  1  722 47.16 40 17.17 124 34.08 18.47  8 1 .12 1.5 1.0 MEN   1.6
96 SEP  1  850 31.68 36 45.58 121 24.60  6.29 13   .24  .7 1.2 SJB   1.3
96 SEP  1  954 56.44 38 55.25 123 11.47  1.78 36   .08  .2  .5 PAR   2.6
96 SEP  1 1203 33.26 37 35.74 118 48.63  8.80  7   .11 1.5 2.9 MOR   1.1
96 SEP  1 1321 26.24 36 51.94 121 35.88  8.32 33   .09  .2  .6 SJB   2.7
96 SEP  1 1417  3.96 38 49.36 122 50.22  2.00 43   .07  .1  .4 GEY   3.2
96 SEP  1 1429 14.58 38 49.48 122 50.38  0.25  9   .08  .4 1.1 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  1 1434 47.62 37 21.51 121 43.48  6.43 77 2 .07  .1  .3 ALU   2.5
96 SEP  1 1616 28.51 38 49.90 122 52.63  2.02  7   .04  .4  .9 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  1 1634 10.19 36 33.25 121  8.35  6.21 16   .07  .3  .8 PIN   1.9
--ORIGIN TIME (UT)-- -LAT N-- --LON W-- DEPTH  N N RMS ERH ERZ       DUR
YR MON DA HRMN  SEC  DEG MIN  DEG  MIN    KM  RD S SEC  KM  KM REMKS MAG
96 SEP  1 1653  3.22 36 33.09 121  8.40  5.06 11   .08  .3  .9 PIN   1.4
96 SEP  1 1912 35.48 38 49.40 122 50.51  1.84  7   .03  .5  .9 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  1 1955 45.22 38 49.15 122 50.44  2.86 47 1 .09  .1  .7 GEY   3.0
96 SEP  1 2009 30.42 39 24.47 123 21.14 11.33 12 1 .13  .5 1.9 MAA   1.6
96 SEP  1 2023  7.71 38 48.97 122 51.09  3.94  8   .07  .4 1.4 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  1 2157 19.90 38 49.06 122 50.74  2.16 11   .06  .3  .8 GEY   1.6
96 SEP  1 2309 27.86 38 24.33 122 35.86  6.47 23 1 .12  .3  .6 ROG#  1.7
96 SEP  2   53 13.79 36 33.17 121  8.36  5.93 36 1 .06  .2  .6 PIN   2.2
96 SEP  2  131 11.19 40  5.88 123 44.51 20.35 22 3 .11  .4  .4 MEN   2.1
96 SEP  2  225 24.78 38 49.57 122 47.86  4.01 13   .02  .2  .7 GEY   2.0
96 SEP  2  316  1.58 38 47.04 122 44.77  0.64  8   .05  .3 1.1 GEY   1.6
96 SEP  2  321 41.75 39 22.67 123 17.50  8.94 14 1 .07  .3 1.7 MAA   1.4
96 SEP  2  411  1.52 40 45.62 123 32.20 29.32 11 1 .06  .4 1.2 EUR   2.0
96 SEP  2  421 39.95 38 48.96 122 50.48  1.53  8   .07  .4  .9 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  2  556 46.20 38 49.58 122 50.15  0.20  8   .04  .4 1.0 GEY   1.1
96 SEP  2  817 52.30 38 49.44 122 50.40  0.73 11   .06  .3 1.2 GEY   1.4
96 SEP  2  851 43.84 38 51.22 122 47.39  0.20  9   .47 1.3 7.1 GEY # 1.5
96 SEP  2 1014 21.97 38 47.23 122 46.33  4.11  8   .01  .4  .9 GEY   1.3
96 SEP  2 1108  4.46 38 47.72 122 48.32  4.73  8   .01  .3 1.1 GEY   1.1
96 SEP  2 1451  0.67 38 43.05 119 37.75  7.77 18 1 .11  .4 1.9 WAK   2.1
96 SEP  2 1824 26.74 38 49.07 122 48.71  3.90 21 1 .05  .2  .6 GEY   1.8
96 SEP  2 1902 55.52 36  9.40 120 12.75 11.79 21   .06  .2  .6 COA   2.1
96 SEP  2 1929 32.42 36 37.81 121 14.62  8.44 28   .07  .2  .6 STN   1.5
96 SEP  2 2027  0.35 37 17.42 121 40.22  4.00 54 2 .07  .1  .6 SFL   2.0
96 SEP  2 2036  3.87 37 17.42 121 40.17  2.62 15 1 .04  .2 1.3 SFL   1.4
96 SEP  3    2  4.89 37 17.34 121 40.05  4.22 14 2 .05  .2 1.7 SFL   1.2
96 SEP  3   46 50.68 37 29.22 118 50.40  6.18 14   .06  .5 1.9 MOR   1.2
96 SEP  3   47 25.36 37 31.77 118 49.73 11.83 14   .06  .4  .8 MOR   1.2
96 SEP  3   47 48.94 36 46.99 121 20.74  2.59 12   .07  .5  .6 HOL   1.2
96 SEP  3  219  7.79 36 51.64 121 35.96  8.11 69 2 .14  .2  .3 SJB   2.6
96 SEP  3  413 56.34 37 21.16 121 43.26  5.82 37   .04  .1  .3 ALU   1.6
96 SEP  3  623 38.28 38 42.44 119 39.14  4.99  8   .11 1.3 9.3 WAK - 1.9
96 SEP  3  629 43.08 36 47.06 121 20.55  2.69 37   .09  .2  .4 HOL   1.9
96 SEP  3  800 42.68 38 49.23 122 47.88  4.07 16   .04  .2  .6 GEY   1.6
96 SEP  3  826  6.24 37 30.72 118 49.84  6.18 10   .06  .8 1.5 MOR   1.1
96 SEP  3  844 54.59 38 49.19 122 47.83  4.83 24   .06  .2  .5 GEY   1.8
96 SEP  3  845 10.60 36 46.99 121 20.95  2.47 13   .08  .4  .5 HOL   1.1
96 SEP  3  908 48.08 38 49.01 122 48.28  3.17  8   .02  .3 1.6 GEY   1.4
96 SEP  3 1010 48.59 38 47.88 122 46.58  0.79  7   .03  .5  .6 GEY   1.1
96 SEP  3 1031  9.70 37 27.88 118 47.20 10.90 28   .08  .4  .8 MOR   1.9
96 SEP  3 1119 46.38 38 51.82 122 50.33  1.84 19   .05  .2  .5 GEY   1.9
96 SEP  3 1454 50.34 38 49.29 122 49.68  0.46  8   .04  .3  .9 GEY   1.2
96 SEP  3 1622 25.49 38 47.67 122 48.61  4.15  8   .01  .3  .8 GEY   1.2
96 SEP  3 1647  5.53 38 48.84 122 48.63  3.34 10   .04  .3  .6 GEY   1.6
96 SEP  3 1811 18.49 38 47.15 122 43.15  2.70 13   .06  .4  .7 GEY   2.0
--ORIGIN TIME (UT)-- -LAT N-- --LON W-- DEPTH  N N RMS ERH ERZ       DUR
YR MON DA HRMN  SEC  DEG MIN  DEG  MIN    KM  RD S SEC  KM  KM REMKS MAG
96 SEP  3 1815 36.64 38 47.43 122 46.54  0.76  9   .06  .3  .8 GEY   1.4
96 SEP  3 1846 20.05 39 21.11 122 52.02  9.58 20   .05  .3 1.2 BAR   1.9
96 SEP  3 1847 32.62 39 21.05 122 52.47  8.04 17 1 .06  .3  .9 BAR   1.9
96 SEP  3 1849  1.68 38 48.10 122 48.82  4.07  8   .01  .3  .8 GEY   1.4
96 SEP  3 1914 47.60 40 22.94 124 36.15 24.63 24 1 .08 1.0  .9 MEN   2.1
96 SEP  3 2332 27.02 37 23.01 121 44.21  9.26 49 3 .08  .2  .4 ALU   1.7
96 SEP  4   46 49.51 38 58.19 123  6.96  5.30 24   .08  .2  .7 MAA   2.0
96 SEP  4  122 24.17 39 32.56 121 54.22 16.21 18 2 .09 1.1  .7 SAC   2.2
96 SEP  4  209 14.71 38 55.03 123 11.38  0.61 22 1 .09  .2  .7 PAR   1.8
96 SEP  4  218 27.79 36 34.39 121 10.33  6.39 12   .04  .3  .8 PIN   1.4
96 SEP  4  239 55.65 37 33.92 118 52.12  0.84  9   .05  .6 1.0 MOR   1.4
96 SEP  4  621 14.41 36 30.55 121  5.48  4.44 10   .06  .3  .7 PIN   1.1
96 SEP  4  751 44.72 38 49.94 122 52.86  2.13 12   .08  .3  .9 GEY   1.5
96 SEP  4  930 11.68 37 35.23 118 50.58  7.30  8   .07  .7 1.3 MOR   1.3
96 SEP  4  956 11.69 38 49.73 122 50.80  0.62  8   .13  .6 1.4 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  4 1050 41.07 36 40.77 121 18.48  3.59  9   .05  .4 1.0 STN   1.1
96 SEP  4 1236 51.24 39 23.95 122 56.21  2.72 13   .08  .4 2.7 BAR   1.9
96 SEP  4 1515 43.35 38 47.74 122 44.94  1.97 14   .04  .2  .6 GEY   2.2
96 SEP  4 1706 35.42 38 49.14 122 48.45  3.37  7   .02  .4  .6 GEY   1.0
96 SEP  4 1902 54.18 36 33.17 121 13.39 10.91 52   .11  .2  .4 PIN   2.5
96 SEP  4 1938 21.48 38 47.93 122 49.56  2.77  7   .04  .4  .7 GEY   1.3
96 SEP  4 1955 43.58 38 47.77 122 49.58  3.10  7   .03  .5  .8 GEY   1.2
96 SEP  4 2233 38.45 38 52.17 122 48.46  1.05  7   .03  .3 1.2 GEY   1.2
96 SEP  4 2301 22.81 36 28.81 121  3.39  7.61 21   .06  .3  .6 BIT   2.1
96 SEP  4 2329 23.27 36 41.61 121 20.19  6.84 10   .04  .4  .8 STN   1.3
TABLE 2.
Data from National Earthquake Information Center (NEIC)
UTC TIME    LAT     LONG    DEP GS MAGS  SD STA  REGION AND COMMENTS
HRMNSEC                         MB  Msz     USED
AUG 28
010613.4? 52.29 N 176.61 W 100G 4.2     0.8   9 ANDREANOF ISLANDS, ALEUTIAN IS.
011256.7& 62.910N 149.380W  87  3.6         136 CENTRAL ALASKA. .
015634.4* 77.754N   8.226E  10G 3.9     1.1  13 SVALBARD REGION
032136.5   7.860S 122.815E 196? 4.8     0.8  23 FLORES SEA
033917.3   3.627S 138.921E  33N 4.8     1.1  27 IRIAN JAYA, INDONESIA
043903.4* 21.747N  98.954E  33N         0.7   9 MYANMAR
050339.2* 51.298N 176.682W  33N 4.0     0.9   8 ANDREANOF ISLANDS, ALEUTIAN IS.
061006.0? 34.61 S  71.07 W  70G         0.3  10 NEAR COAST-CENTRAL CHILE. MD 3.0
063049.8   0.998N  28.103W  10G 5.1 4.7 0.7  62 CENTRAL MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE
070741.4? 31.84 S  69.07 W 184?         0.4  12 SAN JUAN PROV. ARGENTINA. MD 3.0
071014.7% 38.324N   4.306W  10G         0.7  14 SPAIN. mbLg 3.1 (MDD).
075658.6*  1.960N 126.945E  33N 5.1     0.9  26 NORTHERN MOLUCCA SEA
093533.3? 20.35 S 177.73 W 500G 4.2     0.7  15 FIJI ISLANDS REGION
100417.8? 13.49 N  45.06 W  10G 4.3     1.0   8 NORTHERN MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE
100506.3  19.902N 121.490E  33N 4.9 4.3 0.9  46 PHILIPPINE ISLANDS REGION
122209.2  37.708N  21.472E  33N 4.8     1.0  54 SOUTHERN GREECE.Felt at Katokolo
124916.1% 32.981S  71.136W  33N         0.4  10 NEAR COAST-CENTRAL CHILE. MD 3.4
142925.5% 37.617N   4.638W  10G         0.5  14 SPAIN. mbLg 3.0 (MDD).
155534.8   5.637N  82.534W  33N 4.6     1.0  27 SOUTH OF PANAMA
165311.8* 60.005S 149.980E  10G 5.2 6.1 1.5  35 WEST OF MACQUARIE ISLAND
190827.9* 10.142N 126.290E  33N 4.4     0.7  13 PHILIPPINE ISLANDS REGION
200432.4*  9.404S 112.987E  33N 4.2     1.2  14 SOUTH OF JAWA, INDONESIA
212859.7*  0.874N 126.324E  33N 4.8     1.2  24 NORTHERN MOLUCCA SEA
225016.3*  1.322S  14.884W  10G 4.3 3.9 1.1  10 NORTH OF ASCENSION ISLAND
233327.1  20.045N 145.616E 104D 4.5     1.0  27 MARIANA ISLANDS
234939.1* 42.369N  72.715E  33N 3.9     0.5   9 KYRGYZSTAN
AUG 29
000103.4* 24.375S 178.735E 674? 4.7     0.6  23 SOUTH OF FIJI ISLANDS
005952.2?  4.78 S 103.09 E  33N 4.7     1.8  17 SOUTHERN SUMATERA, INDONESIA
032020.1* 24.055S  66.729W 194* 4.2     0.9  27 SALTA PROVINCE, ARGENTINA
044703.8  42.475S 172.762E  33N 5.1     1.0  42 SOUTH ISLAND, NEW ZEALAND
062207.3  73.261N   5.452E  10G 4.6     1.4  35 GREENLAND SEA
081847.8   2.810S 137.134E  33N 5.0 5.0 0.9  35 IRIAN JAYA, INDONESIA
083824.2* 30.113N  88.016E  20G 4.6     1.9  19 XIZANG
092427.1  35.187N  26.204E  68D 4.6     1.3  84 CRETE
101512.6& 58.250N 151.600W  19               53 KODIAK ISLAND REGION. ML 3.3
134454.9  38.774N 119.553W   5G         1.0  57 CALIFORNIA-NEVADA BORDER. ML 3.3
141008.6  17.439S 174.975W 179? 4.7     1.0  67 TONGA ISLANDS
151100.1   3.000S 126.167E  43* 5.2     0.7  37 BURU, INDONESIA
154957.9  40.446N 124.632W  20G         0.7  23 NEAR COAST-NORTHERN CALIF.ML 3.0
165020.0  30.372S  69.035W  56  4.3     0.9  31 CHILE-ARGENTINA BORDER. MD 4.5
172301.2*  5.537S 147.239E  33N 4.5     1.3  19 EASTERN NEW GUINEA REG., P.N.G.
175550.9?  7.19 S 129.16 E 150G 4.2     1.6  13 BANDA SEA
202215.6   1.023N  28.104W  10G 5.1 4.6 1.0  34 CENTRAL MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE
220234.1& 65.570N 144.630W  11               25 NORTHERN ALASKA. . ML 3.8
220522.9* 51.345N 177.828W  65* 4.4     0.6   7 ANDREANOF ISLANDS, ALEUTIAN IS.
224309.7*  5.604S 145.534E  33N 4.1     0.7  11 EASTERN NEW GUINEA REG., P.N.G.
AUG 30
011247.4* 42.848N 106.024E  33N 4.5     0.6  12 MONGOLIA
021142.2   5.258S  68.582E  10G 5.2 5.0 0.8  85 CHAGOS ARCHIPELAGO REGION
021229.0& 40.520N 124.770W  22               57 NEAR COAST-NORTHERN CALIF.MD 4.0
034914.0  18.699N 145.225E 564  4.6     0.5  28 MARIANA ISLANDS
051444.7? 33.21 S  72.16 W  33N         0.6  12 OFF COAST-CENTRAL CHILE. MD 4.4
062446.6  32.469N 115.374W  10G         0.9  23 CALIF.-BAJA CALIF. BORDER.ML 3.4
065839.7* 15.409S  34.099E  10G 4.7     0.8   8 MALAWI
105630.5   5.502S 147.503E  33N 4.8     0.7  14 EASTERN NEW GUINEA REG., P.N.G.
110710.5   5.459S 150.716E 153? 5.2     0.9  32 NEW BRITAIN REGION, P.N.G.
114155.2   0.948N  29.031W  10G 5.0 5.1 0.7  47 CENTRAL MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE
121053.4  32.392N 115.387W  10          1.0  20 CALIF.-BAJA CALIF. BORDER REGION
143812.1? 50.03 N 156.51 E  50G 4.7     1.1  13 KURIL ISLANDS
211341.7  52.327N 151.493E 580D 5.4     0.8 173 SEA OF OKHOTSK. Mw 5.4
225056.0& 40.440N 125.070W   8               26 OFF COAST-NORTHERN CALIF. MD3.0
230031.2   3.375S  12.036W  10G 5.1 4.8 0.5  21 NORTH OF ASCENSION ISLAND
AUG 31
051615.8  54.314N 162.418W  43* 4.6     1.4  36 ALASKA PENINSULA
124507.6* 32.408N 137.311E 393D 4.6     0.7  25 SOUTH OF HONSHU, JAPAN
125911.9? 23.06 S 113.44 W  10G 4.8 4.8 1.0  20 EASTER ISLAND REGION
142659.1* 43.570N 147.667E  33N 4.7     1.4  15 KURIL ISLANDS
155829.3* 14.871S 167.141E 123G 5.0 4.8 0.5  33 VANUATU ISLANDS
160325.3? 34.49 S  70.75 W 100G         0.2  10 CHILE-ARGENTINA BORDER. MD 3.5
204723.2  51.436N 178.204W  64  5.7     0.9 141 ANDREANOF ISLANDS, ALEUTIAN IS.
                                                Felt sharply on Adak.
SEP 01
064541.5  11.789S 166.569E 187D 5.4     0.7  71 SANTA CRUZ ISLANDS. Mw 5.9 
091731.7*  9.982N  69.282W  33N 4.6 3.9 0.8  26 VENEZUELA
132657.6* 45.550N  26.568E 191? 3.2     0.8   9 ROMANIA. Felt (III) in the
                                                Vrancea area.
141704.1  38.798N 122.815W   5G         0.9  33 NORTHERN CALIFORNIA. ML 3.1
145853.1* 53.815N 163.521W  33N 4.4     1.0  10 UNIMAK ISLAND REGION
174959.2* 23.534S 179.864E 633? 4.6     0.7  25 SOUTH OF FIJI ISLANDS
195545.2  38.816N 122.823W   5G         0.6  32 NORTHERN CALIFORNIA. ML 2.9
203410.4  35.699N 117.609W   5G         0.7  29 CENTRAL CALIFORNIA. ML 3.0 (GS).
SEP 02
074337.9  56.015N 158.677W  61D 4.8     1.1  36 ALASKA PENINSULA. Felt at
        Chignik, Ivanof Bay and Perryville.
074840.5? 46.49 N 150.13 E 290? 4.5     1.1  58 KURIL ISLANDS
124231.0? 36.43 N  70.12 E 199? 4.8     0.8  11 HINDU KUSH REGION, AFGHANISTAN
173412.4* 24.244S  67.036W 183D 4.6     0.7  14 CHILE-ARGENTINA BORDER REGION
190701.6  37.626N   1.631W  18  4.6     1.1  28 SPAIN
204153.9* 12.737N 143.722E  33N 5.7 5.7 0.8  67 SOUTH OF MARIANA ISLANDS. Mw 5.8
SEP 03
001135.9*  7.007S 155.385E  70? 5.2 5.2 0.8  26 SOLOMON ISLANDS
051809.2  61.433N 140.306W  10G 3.9     0.9  14 SOUTHERN YUKON TERRITORY, CANADA
114504.7* 16.972N  99.806W  33N 4.5     0.9  33 NEAR COAST OF GUERRERO, MEXICO
153026.0  36.088N 117.847W   5G         1.0  36 CALIFORNIA-NEVADA BORDER. ML 3.2
170153.7  26.158N 110.523W  10G 5.0     1.0  69 GULF OF CALIFORNIA. Felt at
                                                Algiers.
SEP 04
041403.3  37.003N   2.905E  10G 5.3     1.1 130 WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN SEA
033752  Q 30.4  N 130.1  E  33N 5.5     0.7  58 KYUSHU, JAPAN
151824  Q 29.2  N 140.9  E  33N 5.5     0.8  67 SOUTH OF HONSHU, JAPAN
190650  Q  9.4  N  84.3  W  33N     5.9 1.1 104 COSTA RICA
SEP 05
081413  Q 22.3  S 113.4  W  10G     7.1 0.7  94 EASTER ISLAND REGION
091020  Q 22.1  S 113.1  W  10G 5.5     0.8  41 EASTER ISLAND REGION
094658  Q 22.2  S 113.1  W  10G     5.9 0.8  72 EASTER ISLAND REGION
Note:  Computer users can get faster access to the Weekly Seismicity      
 Reports in any of three ways:
       1. World-Wide-Web (WWW) access:    http://quake.wr.usgs.gov
       2. Anonymous FTP access:           quake.wr.usgs.gov 
                                          (in pub/www/QUAKES/WEEKREPS)
       3. Email Access:    (send email to michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov)
Notes for Table 1:
       Origin time in the list is in GMT, in the text and on maps
       it is in local time.
       N RD: is the number of readings used to locate the event.
       N S: is the number of S waves in N RD.
       RMS SEC: is the root mean squared residual misfit for the
                location is seconds, the lower the better, over 0.3
                to 0.5 seconds is getting bad, but this is machine,
                not hand timed, data.
       ERH: is the estimated horizontal error in kilometers.
       ERZ: is the estimated vertical error in kilometers.
       N FM: is the number of readings used to compute the magnitude.
       REMKS: obtuse region codes that denote the velocity model
              used to locate the event.
       DUR MAG: is the magnitude as determined from the duration of
                the seismograms, not the amplitude.  Sort of like
                going to echo canyon and measuring how loud your
                yell is by counting echos.
       FIG: denotes the figure/event number in the maps posted separately.

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Subject: Re: Shift from UNIX to NT in progress?
From: "Hugh Winkler"
Date: 6 Sep 1996 03:51:48 GMT

Hi Will, 
Thanks for your explanation. I think the key point here is that while NT
with its 48 bit file system can handle file sizes adequately, the
multiprocessor systems quickly eat up 2 or 4 GB RAM. 
I've never constructed a large processing step that didn't have some
sensible way of breaking up the problem. On the other hand, I've always
wanted to just grab a bunch of shot records, downward continue them a step
in memory, then resort and downward continue the receiver gathers a step,
just like we oughta. 
But my character has been much improved over the years being parsimonious
with memory. I'm afraid we'll breed a new generation of profligate
programmers. Let's stop all this 64 bit nonsense before we collapse the
moral fiber of the industry.
-------------------------------------------
Hugh Winkler
Scout Systems            hughw@scoutsys.com
Austin, Texas                  512-452-3290

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Subject: San Francisco Bay USGS Quake Map 8/29-9/4/96
From: michael@garlock.wr.usgs.gov (Andy Michael)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:32:43 GMT

Thu Sep  5 20:50:35 PDT 1996
The most recent version of this plot can be found
 here on the WWW
This map is associated with the USGS weekly seismicity report for
Northern California, the US, and the World.  Disclaimers in that report
apply to this map.  The format is GIF (GIF 87a, I believe) converted to
ascii by uuencode.  For more info contact michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov.
DO NOT SEND EMAIL TO weekly@garlock.wr.usgs.gov  It will not be read.
UUENCODED FILE BEGINS BELOW THIS LINE
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`
end

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Subject: N. California USGS Quake Map 8/29-9/4/96
From: michael@garlock.wr.usgs.gov (Andy Michael)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:32:52 GMT

Thu Sep 5 20:50:35 PDT 1996 The most recent version of this plot can be found here on the WWW This map is associated with the USGS weekly seismicity report for Northern California, the US, and the World. Disclaimers in that report apply to this map. The format is GIF (GIF 87a, I believe) converted to ascii by uuencode. For more info contact michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov. DO NOT SEND EMAIL TO weekly@garlock.wr.usgs.gov It will not be read. 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Subject: Long Valley USGS Quake Map 8/29-9/4/96
From: michael@garlock.wr.usgs.gov (Andy Michael)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:33:01 GMT

Thu Sep 5 20:50:35 PDT 1996 The most recent version of this plot can be found here on the WWW This map is associated with the USGS weekly seismicity report for Northern California, the US, and the World. Disclaimers in that report apply to this map. The format is GIF (GIF 87a, I believe) converted to ascii by uuencode. For more info contact michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov. DO NOT SEND EMAIL TO weekly@garlock.wr.usgs.gov It will not be read. 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Subject: USA USGS Quake Map 8/29-9/4/96
From: michael@garlock.wr.usgs.gov (Andy Michael)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:33:11 GMT

Thu Sep 5 20:50:36 PDT 1996 The most recent version of this plot can be found here on the WWW This map is associated with the USGS weekly seismicity report for Northern California, the US, and the World. Disclaimers in that report apply to this map. The format is GIF (GIF 87a, I believe) converted to ascii by uuencode. For more info contact michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov. DO NOT SEND EMAIL TO weekly@garlock.wr.usgs.gov It will not be read. 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M,'69KV&4DU:;WM6;=__!4!S)TOR -+O4J-74U7@7VK$1W-//WJAY&YF;/V!D6 MD4GEDMETCF(I6*P1#0*M6474E;T*I4\HY"@4GW]H]9K==C>]5$D<2^]R9RM[ MU6KZOEVJQ@"+R@@/$1,5%U'"ZA@AB)FE4UE^X:)=Z.= MJZVOL56'J">X-;VSP\7'R=&V2;??[>_QUS/JR7+Y\P$& M%#B-5H]_APX.5+B0H:4#"?O):CB18L54$ ,%L[B18\=L&-6 ]#B29,DV(L^@ M-+F294L?S&#&E;#E3IDN;-W'FU+F39T^?/X$&%3J4:%&C1Y;$F5;J4:5.G3Z%& ME3J5:E6K5[%FU;J5:U>O7\&&%3N6;%FS9]&F5;N6;5NW;^'&E3N7;EV[=_'F MU;N7;U^_?P$'%CR8<&'#AQ$G5KR8<6/'CR%'ECR9^L0 .T&' ` end
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Subject: World USGS Quake Map 8/29-9/4/96
From: michael@garlock.wr.usgs.gov (Andy Michael)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:33:19 GMT

Thu Sep 5 20:50:36 PDT 1996 The most recent version of this plot can be found here on the WWW This map is associated with the USGS weekly seismicity report for Northern California, the US, and the World. Disclaimers in that report apply to this map. The format is GIF (GIF 87a, I believe) converted to ascii by uuencode. For more info contact michael@andreas.wr.usgs.gov. DO NOT SEND EMAIL TO weekly@garlock.wr.usgs.gov It will not be read. 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
ZPW[GZJBIUSRINMN<&RJV;^&R;:J[[[\ ZW-&P; 07/DQ+MO<: MK/#"2\ ;+<,01VSOMQ)7;/'%&&>L\<8<=^SQQR"'+/+())=L\LDHIZSRRBRW .[/++,, Return to Top
Subject: Re: Sowerby, early 19th, mineralogy?
From: "R.C. Blankenhorn"
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 21:28:11 +0000

Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel wrote: > > Hello, > We have in our collection a sample of Nepheline (variety Gieseckite) from > Greenland, the label of which is hand written by Giesecke, pioneer of the > mineralogy of Greenland (you can give a look to the special issue about > Greenland in Mineralogical record). > The label said the sample was given by Giesecke to Sowerby (probably around > 1815-1825). > It seems to me there a lot of geologist in the Sowerby family > (paleontologist...).Which one could have an interest in mineralogy. > Where can I obtain more info about him. The most likely Sowerby's would be James Sowerby (1757-1822) who wrote "British Mineralogy" and "Exotic Mineralogy" or his son James de Carle Sowerby (1787-1871) who took over some of his father's mineralogical works in 1822. His other two sons (George Brettingham & Charles Edward) didn't do much work in the mineralogical field. Vince Austin The Gemmary Rare Books Specialists in Mineralogy rcb@gemmary.com http://www.gemmary.com/rcb
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Subject: Re: NEED CASH FAST?
From: Ross Brunetti
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 22:53:51 +0000

The Hoppers wrote: > > ************************************************************************** > I know what you are thinking "this is just some money scam" but it's not! > ************************************************************************** Yeah, right. A plain ol' chain letter! With all the nonsense infesting this group, it's almost a breath of fresh air! Ross
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Subject: Re: Are *all* Texas lakes man made?
From: Ross Brunetti
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 22:58:18 +0000

Clark Wilkinson wrote: > > I'm curious as to why lake building humans are not a "natural" > phenomenon. Please! You're going to start another Creation vs. Evolution arguement! Ross Brunetti
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Subject: Re: New groups - discussion - response to Oilver Seeler (once upon a time)
From: Richard Adams
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 22:42:38 -0700

Mary Corman wrote: > > Richard Adams (happypcs@oro.net) wrote: > : Sure there are various "personalities" > : involved in the discussion. After the > : discussion is finished and the vote is > : taken, all relevance of the personalities > : will vanish. The useless current attacks > : against the personalities will be forgotten > : while the documents recorded are the real > : result which will live on. > > Richard, I posted a similar question on ca.earthquakes yesterday > which hasn't shown up on some newsreaders yet. My apologies to > those who see it twice, but it also is relevant to your cross- > posted comments on sci.geo.earthquakes. Below is part of a long > proposal you posted on 8/30 (this copy is from a newsgroup reply > which you posted later). Is it one of the recorded documents that > you indicate "are the real result which will live on"? > > It has no provision for newsgroup participants to vote to replace > a moderator who doesn't follow the charter. If the moderator > decides to resign, he or she will select the successor (without > participant choice then either). Please explain why your proposal > shouldn't be viewed as an attempt to control those groups. > > > > > REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) > > moderated group sci.geo.earthquakes.calif-world > > moderated group sci.geo.earthquakes.predictions > > [many lines snipped] > > > Moderator Selection and Replacement > > ----------------------------------- > > > > 16. The present moderator selects their own replacement, or > > may delegate moderation of one or both groups to another > > person or persons. > > > > 17. A moderator serves until he or she resigns. A moderator > > may resign at any time. A moderator is requested to give > > the group adequate notice in order to insure an orderly > > transition. > > > > 18. A moderator may designate a back-up moderator for vacation > > or emergency or other periods, and is requested to give the > > group adequate notice. The back-up moderator shall only > > function to collect and tally votes and maintain the BL, > > substituting for and having the same power as the moderator. > > > > END CHARTER. > > > > MODERATOR INFO: all groups > > > > Moderator: Richard Adams > > > > END MODERATOR INFO. > > > > > -- > Mary Corman > mcorman@netcom.com marycorman@aol.com tybg72a@prodigy.com Mary, The document which will live on will be whatever the final form of the RFD is. The discussion now taking place will be written into that. I suspect that the sections shown above will be included in the final form. Please discuss other possible ways of doing this. The RFD is intended to contain an outline and may contain less than the document you extracted this from. The answer above is in response to the new question that was added when this was crossposted to s.g.g and s.g.e. The remainder of answer are covered below where I've attached your original post to ca.eq which is now crossposted to the other groups. One more point. Other initial moderators are also open for discussion. Beyond the considerations of trust and loyalty, there is also a need for a good relationship with the ISP-newserver and fast net access to those resources. Richard NOTE: If you're looking from ca.eq, you've probably already seen the post below as it was first posted only there. ********************************************************** ********************************************************** Mary Corman wrote: > > Richard Adams (happypcs@oro.net) wrote: > > : Rich to Rev. Bob: > : What gave the impression that I had an obsession > : with being in control? Please explain. > > : I pose no threat to anyone. I've been listening, > : identifying what people want, combining solutions and > : writing proposals. That's all I've been doing. Even > : if the discussions and proposals don't result in > : a workable solution, at least we have tried, and > : we certainly will have learned from the whole thing. > : As a scientist and inventor, my most compelling > : intention is to learn. > > Richard, you asked me via email not to vote "no" on your proposals > to start new groups if I don't intend to participate in them - so > those who DO want new groups can have them. But it looks like > the option now is voting on charters, not whether to start two > groups. I need a clearer explanation of procedures and of the terms > in the section of your proposal that follows. Its wording certainly > could be construed as an attempt to want to gain control of the > groups. If not you, then who is "the present moderator" and how > will that moderator be chosen initially? And why is there no > provision to remove a moderator by group vote? It looks like > once a group is established, its moderator can become its dictator > until he or she wishes to resign and appoint his/her handpicked > succesor. At least it leaves the door open for that kind of control. > > : Moderator Selection and Replacement > : ----------------------------------- > : > : 16. The present moderator selects their own replacement, or > : may delegate moderation of one or both groups to another > : person or persons. > > : 17. A moderator serves until he or she resigns. A moderator > : may resign at any time. A moderator is requested to give > : the group adequate notice in order to insure an orderly > : transition. > > : 18. A moderator may designate a back-up moderator for vacation > : or emergency or other periods, and is requested to give the > : group adequate notice. The back-up moderator shall only > : function to collect and tally votes and maintain the BL, > : substituting for and having the same power as the moderator. > > It has been a long time since I earned a B.A. in History (in > pre-computer and pre-Usenet years), so maybe my view is naive for > these days. But this doesn't look democratic to me. I'd be more > willing to trust posts to a robot than to a moderator who can't be > removed if he or she decides not to follow the charter. > > But maybe I missed something in your 715-line reply. If so, > please refer me to the definitions that explain that section. > > Thanks. > -- > Mary Corman > mcorman@netcom.com marycorman@aol.com tybg72a@prodigy.com Mary, Yes you are correct, the option which currently directly affects ca.earthquakes is a vote which I believe to be proposed by Ian Kluft, to reestablish a written charter for ca.earthquakes as this can't be currently located. The discussion I'm bringing to ca.earthquakes is about a proposal in the sci.geo. hierarchy. Although I had originally thought that it was possible to combine ca.earthquakes in together with that, I was wrong. The uunet group which administrates the sci.* hierarchy explained to me that my proposal was unacceptable if it tried to use the uunet administration to change ca.earthquakes. They simply don't do this. Clarifying, what I'm proposing if voted and passed, will have no official affect on ca.earthquakes from an administrative standpoint. It will not change the charter, or he name of ca.earthquakes. The group ca.earthquakes will remain unmoderated as it is now. All of the discussion about moderation which are copied above and further discussed below do not officially affect the ca.earthquakes group. Okay, so if what I'm proposing doesn't officially affect ca.earthquakes, one might ask why I'm including ca.earthquakes in the discussion. The official answer is that the existing charter for sci.geo.earthquakes mentions ca.earthquakes and since my proposal affects sci.geo.earthquakes, I acknowledge that ca.earthquakes should be included in the discussion. Even though there is no official effect on ca.eq from my proposal, there is the potential for some effect, positive, negative, or neutral. To accomodate this and provide the best means possible that the effect on the members of ca.eq is positive or neutral rather than negative, ca.eq is given the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. Some potential negative effects have been identified. I've addressed those brought out to discuss. There is the potential and appearance that there are many underlying cultural, economic, or other reasons which may enter into all of this. I can't create simplicity out of complicated issues but I'll attempt to identify the larger factors here. To some persons, the ca.eq group itself is helt dear as a unique meeting place intellectually and culturally which they do not want disturbed. It is natural for humans to resist change, even for the better, when they are satisified with the way things already are. To others, it doesn't matter what the group is called so long as they can have a place to post their news worthy items. I do not pretend to have all the issues and answers. I invite the discussion to continue and as the proponent for the proposal in the sci.* group, I feel I have a duty to listen and discuss here and try to accomodate and ensure that there is no negative effect for the users. I apologize that I lack the gift of breviety and appreciate those that bear with my limitations. With all of that in mind I now address the issues of the proposal for the sci.* group moderation. ------------------------------- The only method currently available to effect legitimate changes in a sci.* group, i.e. new groups, moderation, or whatever, is through the RFD, CFV process. I have actually provided more detail in the RFD I currently posted here than is permissible; my mistake. It's unacceptable for official publication in its current form. What I'll be doing shortly is rewriting this to separate the details from the charter. The underlying reason why you are very correct is that the uunet can't control the moderator except after another RFD / CFV process, and a bad moderator could slow this process if there was no other unmoderated place for the group to meet. Since uunet can't control the moderator, controls placed on the moderator within the charter aren't enforceable. In selecting a moderator, the group should understand that there is the potential that any moderator will not do what they promised, no matter who they are. The very first rule of the moderation policies states that the moderator has a fiduciary duty to the group. Being a fiduciary means that a person places their trust and loyalty in another. There are many examples of fiduciary relationships in life besides moderation of news groups such as agents, attorneys, and trustees. Although I have developed the "automatic moderation through group vote" method, and offered it for discussion here, the means to enfore this upon the moderator is by another CFV call for votes. This is the correct voting mechanism. The group can't vote asking the moderator to remove themself, it would not work. Instead, the group votes to ask uunet to change the moderator. I myself have been in a fiduciary capacity in relationships for many years and clearly understand what this means. I do not take the meaning lightly. Answering your specific questions (paraphrased): Q: Isn't the option for ca.earthquakes just a vote on charters rather than to start new groups? A: Yes, but ca.eq members are invited to participate in the disucssion and vote for the new groups in sci.* also. These are separate processes. Q: What is a clearer explanation of the procedures and terms in the proposal. A: In addition to that I've talked about here, these can be found by looking for posts in the news.groups and news.announce.newgroups which tell where to find them. Those that I've noticed there recently were posted by David Lawrence. The location, people, and contents are continuously being updated, but the two newsgroups I've mentioned are the starting place. They seem to post the information there at least once a week. Info for the ca.* hierarchy is now being recreated in a separate project by Ian Kluft and is posted to the "ca.news.group" group. Q: Could this be construed as an attempt by you to gain control of a newsgroup? A: Yes, but the members can restablish control through another discussion and voting process, whoever the moderator is, at least for sci.* groups. I have been a fiduciary for many years and understand that responsiblity. Although some people disagree with this discussion, I've tried to maintain the order by moderating and organizing the discussion already taking place in a level headed manner, avoiding personal attacks as best I can. Q: Who is the initial moderator? A: I am currently listed in the current RFD as the initial moderator. Whoever is listed in the RFD officially posted and voted upon is the initial moderator. Q: Why is there no provision to remove a moderator by group vote? A: Actually the charter has to be updated to reflect the fact that once installed, the moderator has the power control all of this since that is the only way that the uunet administration currently works. The group still retains its option to meet and have a vote to the uunet through the RFD/CFV process to remove a bad moderator. The proposal I'm presenting provides for the continuation of an unmoderated group nearby which the users can meet in and discuss the removal of the an uncooperative moderator without being interferred with by the bad moderator. They can also meet in the news.groups area to do this but that is clogged with all kinds of stuff. -------------------------------------------------------- Since the mechanism for group vote to control the bump list is still under control of the moderator, and the only control uunet has is via the RFD/CFV vote, the charter can't contain the described bump list vote process i.e. no power to enforce, it must not be listed Where the current RFD lists this, I must take it out and make it a separate document. I was mistaken to put that detailed process there since it can't be enforced by any process except the RFD/CFV. Without going through that, the fiduciary relationship of trust and loyalty enforces this. In summary, the automated robot is controlled by the moderator, the moderator is supposed to be controlled by the group vote when working as promised, but is actually controlled by uunet through the RFD/CFV process. You're very bright to point all this out and ask these questions, so give yourself due credit. Your B.A. in history is relevant since history shows that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The absolute power is via the group vote to the uunet administration. Since no individual has absolute power, there is no absolute corruption. A corrupt moderator can be removed via a voting process to uunet. I was waiting to address all of this when I posted the next RFD since the automoderation terms have to be removed from the charter and listed separately. I'll be using ideas from this post within the attached explanations that will accompany the RFD but which can't be part of the charter. (no gift for breviety) Richard
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Subject: discussion of new groups - follow up to Mary Corman cross post repost
From: Richard Adams
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 22:26:18 -0700

Chuck Karish wrote: > > In article <322F3168.13B9@oro.net>, Richard Adams wrote: > >The underlying reason why you are very correct > >is that the uunet can't control the moderator except > ^^^^^ > > That's "usenet". > > >after another RFD / CFV process, and a bad moderator > >could slow this process if there was no other > >unmoderated place for the group to meet. Since uunet > >can't control the moderator, controls placed on > >the moderator within the charter aren't enforceable. > >In selecting a moderator, the group should understand > >that there is the potential that any moderator will > >not do what they promised, no matter who they are. > > The remedies in the traditional usenet procedures > take months. Yes, the trust and loyalty aspect is very important for this reason, and I give it them most weight. Just like a contract which is only a piece of paper, what really matters is the true intent of the parties. > > >Although I have developed the "automatic moderation > >through group vote" method, and offered it for discussion > >here, the means to enfore this upon the moderator is > >by another CFV call for votes. > > > Q: What is a clearer explanation of the procedures and > > terms in the proposal. > > > > A: In addition to that I've talked about here, these > > can be found by looking for posts in the news.groups > > and news.announce.newgroups which tell where to find > > them. > > The basic usenet group formation guidelines are posted > periodically in news.announce.newusers. It's surprising > that someone who proposes himself for a moderator's > job doesn't know this. No surprise, I've found the documents where I said. In fact today in news.groups I found the below attached article from Jon Bell which discusses this matter. You're correct that news.announce.newusers is also a place so designated, but over there today I only found "How to become a usenet site" and "Welcome to usenet" which aren't the relevant ones. What is the logic behind the implication that I'm a less desireable candidate for a moderator because of this issue? Isn't the most important aspect the trust and loyalty issue I've previously addressed? I'm receptive to suggestions for a different initial moderator. It a matter for the group to discuss. Previous discussion with s.g.e and surveys I've taken there show that I'm acceptable to people as a moderator and that my being the moderator would not be the cause of a negative vote. > >Since the mechanism for group vote to control the bump > >list is still under control of the moderator, and the > >only control uunet has is via the RFD/CFV vote, the > >charter can't contain the described bump list vote > >process i.e. no power to enforce, it must not be listed > > I don't see why not. The charter gives the criteria by > which the group is to work. Any voting scheme is > advisory to the moderator, who is responsible for > implementing the newsgroup charter. > > The charter is the only per-newsgroup document that's > recognized by the current usenet guidelines. If > someone were to document a new moderation procedure > in the news.announce.newusers FAQs, it could later be > referred to in group charters. I'm be willing to put a complete and thorough description of the entire process in the RFD. Please see the below which I've pasted from the article "How to write a good newsgroup proposal". "THE MODERATOR: If the group is to be moderated, you should briefly explain why. Also, give the name and e-mail address, and briefly list the qualifications of the proposed moderator, and outline the duties involved. Usually, the moderator's duty is to uphold the charter of the group by rejecting articles that do not conform to it." The issue here is that I do not have time to be a full time human moderator of three newsgroups. There can also be a substantial delay when the moderation process is requires human intervention. The solution of a robot to do this complicates the RFD. Next I've added further complications through the suggestion that the bump list for the robot be established by the vote of the group. More stuff to make the RFD longer. I've already written an RFD that had all that stuff and it was rejected because it was too complicated. I've been told to keep the RFD simplier, as an outline of the duties, not every single detail, just like it says in the above pasted in section. That is why I'll outline it in the RFD and then include a more detailed description here in the group. I'd be happy to put all the detail in the RFD, but I suspect that the moderator of the news.announce.newgroups would prefer that the "How to write a good newsgroup proposal" should be the guideline. One can't publish an official RFD unless its accepted by the aforementioned moderator. In a day or two you'll see the next rev of these documents, i.e. RFD & detail. Again its just a piece of paper or even less in this case, bytes on a hard drive. For what I'm proposing its up to the moderator to do what the group thinks is best for the group, not what the moderator thinks is best. This may need to be fine tuned as time progresses and we shouldn't need to go through an RFD /CFV to fine tune this. Its the trust and loyalty issue that is most important. Richard Adams PS: I've crossposted this to s.g.g and s.g.e since the post this originated from will also be cross posted there shortly. ***************************************************** ***************************************************** The following article was copied from news.groups ***************************************************** ***************************************************** Jon Bell wrote: > > One of the more frequently posted questions is "How can I create a new > newsgroup?" Briefly, creating a new newsgroup in the comp, humanities, > misc, news, rec, sci, soc or talk hierarchies involves first proposing the > newsgroup in news.announce.newgroups, then conducting a "vote" among those > Usenet readers who have an opinion on the proposed group. The entire > process can take up to three months. > > Creating a new newsgroup in the "alt" hierarchy involves proposing it > informally in alt.config, then (if the response is favorable) getting > someone to send out a "newgroup control message" for the group if you > don't know how to do it yourself. > > Other hierarchies have different procedures, or perhaps no formal > procedure at all. If you want to create a new newsgroup in the > (hypothetical!) podunk hierarchy, you might look for a newsgroup called > podunk.config or podunk.general, and ask there about the proper procedure. > > For more details, see the following articles. You can find copies of > (or links to) all of them at the following Web address: > > http://cs1.presby.edu/~jtbell/usenet/newgroup/ > > (1) "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup", by David Lawrence > > (a) in one of the following newsgroups: news.admin.misc, > news.announce.newgroups, news.announce.newusers, news.answers, > news.groups > > (b) by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu, with a blank > "Subject:" line, and with the following command in the message > body: send usenet/news.groups/How_to_Create_a_New_Usenet_Newsgroup > > (2) "Guidelines on Usenet Newsgroup Names", by David Wright and Mark Moraes > > (a) in one of the following newsgroups: news.announce.newusers, > news.groups, news.admin.misc, alt.config, alt.answers, news.answers > > (b) by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu, with a blank > "Subject:" line, and with the following command in the message > body: send usenet/news.groups/Guidelines_on_Usenet_Newsgroup_Names > > (3) "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal", by Russ Allbery > > (a) in one of the following newsgroups: news.announce.newusers, > news.answers, news.groups > > (4) "How to Write a Good Newsgroup Proposal", by David Lawrence and Una Smith > > (a) in one of the following newsgroups: news.announce.newusers, > news.answers > > (5) "So You Want to Create an Alt Newsgroup", by David Barr > > (a) in one of the following newsgroups: alt.config, alt.answers, > news.answers > > (b) by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu, with a blank > "Subject:" line, and with the following command in the message > body: send usenet/alt.config/So_You_Want_to_Create_an_Alt_Newsgroup > > (b) by pointing your Web browser to: > http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/alt-creation-guide.html > > (6) "How to Write a Good Newgroup Message", by Brian Edmonds > > (a) in the newsgroup alt.config > > (b) by pointing your Web browser to: > http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html > > These articles are posted periodically (usually at least once per month) > in the indicated newsgroups. If you don't find them there, that simply > means that the most recent copies have "expired" on your news server. > New copies should be posted eventually. > > Finally, the following Web addresses contain collections of information on > creating an "alt" group, including the "So You Want to Create..." > article, and a description of the actual newgroup control mesage. > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/~asdamick/www/news/create.html > http://www.ma.iup.edu/~pyld/altguide.html > http://www.tezcat.com/~haz1/alt/faqindex.html > > Note: for beginner's information on newsgroups, check out > http://cs1.presby.edu/~jtbell/usenet/ > > -- > Jon Bell Presbyterian College > Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
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Subject: Re: The Ultimate Unity of Science and Religion.
From: kenhall@ghgcorp.com (Ken Hall)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 05:09:58 GMT

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:38:58, you wrote: >kenhall@ghgcorp.com (Ken Hall) writes: >>>...Why can't God be the >>>motivating force behind the miracle of the Universe? It's as valid as any >>>other explanation, and has a comfortable commonsense appeal to it. >>Occam and I disagree that the existence of a creator god is "just as >>valid" if, by that, you mean "just as likely". A god isn't just as >>likely as other explanations. >Occam was presenting a rule for selecting among alternative and >equally likely hypotheses, not for ***proving*** one or the other correct. [emphasis added] I guess you'll need to point out for me the place where I mentioned "proof" or "proving." You are incorrect about Occam. His principle says the simpler of two explanations is more likely and should be assumed to be the correct explanation. That is the point of Occam's Razor--choosing the more likely. If a thing has two equally complex explanations his principle cannot be applied. Two equally likely things are, by definition, equally likely. >>The laws of probability make less complex things more likely to happen >>than more complex things. >Classical Newtonian mechanics works great. So why did God/Whatever make the >universe relativistic? This really complicates things unnecessarily. Beats me why it's overcomplicated (your words). I don't understand gravity or essential hypertension either? I haven't suggested the universe isn't complex. Quite the opposite. Unnecessary complexity is MORE likely to happen in a uncontrolled accidental process where things happening randomly without planning, purpose or regulation. You say the universe is unnecessarily complex. Assuming that's true, why would a god make it unnecessarily complex? Seems like this argues for an random or unplanned event. I was talking about when greater complexity, for which there is *no evidence*, is presented as a cause of, or explanation for lesser complexity. Or, vice versa, when lesser complexity is presented as evidence for a greater imagined complexity. Later on you argue that more complex things come from simpler things?? >It is not necessary to postulate a God as an essential component of the >universe, but that is no proof that He/he/it doesn't exist. There's that "proof" word again. I was explaining probabilities. Likelihoods. What's more likely to be true. The simpler event is more likely to happen that a more complex one. >>Complexity alone is not evidence of yet more complexity. >You've probably heard of the concept of "emergence". As a simple system is >made more complex, or if simple systems are just piled together, the whole >system develops new "emergent" properties that could not have been predicted >from the properties of the original simple system(s). I'm sorry, I don't see a connection between what you said and my point. It seems like you are agreeing that simple systems can change/combine to form more complex systems, which can, in turn, change and combine to form yet more complex systems. This is a perfect explanation for how complex animal and plant life can evolve "emerge" from simple systems over eons of time. So, complex effects *do not* suggest complex causes. I agree with that. Since, I'm not sure what your trying to say, is it possible you're suggesting a god 'emerged'/evolved from the less complex stuff of the universe? I have to agree that is as likely as any other origin for a god. Hmmm.... actually, off hand, it seems more likely than spontaneous generation. Never heard anyone suggest that before. Interesting. >Did you hear that sound? It was Occam getting cut by his own razor. I guess I missed that. And, I must have misunderstood you. I thought you started out saying Occam didn't mean/say what I claimed--now you seem to be asserting that if you had refuted me you would have refuted Occam ???? Ken
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Subject: Re: Utter Futility of Arguing With Creationists
From: wilkins@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 15:09:26 +1000

In article <322F3A71.2D1@lfa.lfc.edu>, Eric Shafto wrote: | John Wilkins wrote: | > | > In article , Leonardo | > Dasso wrote: | > | > | On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Matt Silberstein wrote: | > | | > ... | > | > | > | > Matt Silberstein | > | > =========================================== | > | > | > | > Because I am human, nothing human is beyond me. | > | > | > | > Saint Augustine. | | | > | Saint Augustine? I am sure that quote is from Terencius: "Homo sum, nihil | > | humanum a me alienum puto". | > | | > | Leonardo | > | > I thought it was Tertullian. You remember more of the Latin than I do, though. | | | And I was sure it was Elvis Presley, and that the quotation was, "Homo | sum. Nihil humani alienum a me puto." | | Okay, not too sure about the Elvis Presley part. No, no. That sounds entirely reasonable to me. But was he a Darwinist? -- John Wilkins, Head of Communication Services, Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research It is the glory of science that it finds the patterns in spite of the noise - Daniel Dennett
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Subject: Re: Utter Futility of Arguing With Creationists
From: matts2@ix.netcom.com (Matt Silberstein)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 05:19:00 GMT

In talk.origins wilkins@wehi.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote: >In article , Leonardo >Dasso wrote: >| On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Matt Silberstein wrote: >| >... >| > >| > Matt Silberstein >| > =========================================== >| > >| > Because I am human, nothing human is beyond me. >| > >| > Saint Augustine. >| > >| > >| > >| >| Saint Augustine? I am sure that quote is from Terencius: "Homo sum, nihil >| humanum a me alienum puto". >| >| Leonardo >I thought it was Tertullian. You remember more of the Latin than I do, though. For what it is worth, I have stopped using the sig. I love the line, but it has far more impact coming from a saint. It is too much trouble to find out if Augustine did say it and if he were first. But before the sig passes into history, I think it would be a good idea to think about its meaning. Matt Silberstein ----------------------------- The opinions expressed in this post reflect those of the Walt Disney Corp. Which might come as a surprise to them.
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Subject: NEXT WINDOW SEPT.11TH, 1996
From: Dr.Turi@worldnet.att.net (drturi)
Date: 6 Sep 1996 07:15:02 GMT

-- Unless you know better than the great scientist do not bother to read the following :) I am sure some believe they do know better than Ritcher and will start to blast their ignorance all over this group! (or on my private E-Mail). Honor the word science (INVESTIGATE the dates!) and be patient. . RICHTER SAID Predictions based on positions of the sun and moon have to be regarded a trifle more seriously, since there is evidence that tidal forces may occasionally act as triggers for earthquakes otherwise on the point of taking place; in this way the date and hours of occurrence ( occurrence -two r's) may show a slight statistical correlation with the tides. - Proof of many of my well documented predictions and dates are to be found there - http://www.salemctr.com/newage.html - try it . This theory is at an early stage and is EXPERIMENTAL only. Next window is for Sept. 11th, 1996- A window is operational 1200 hours centering the given date and sometimes a few hours before and after the window - Thus 1200 Sept.10th through 1200 hours Sept. 12th - UTC is used. This theory is not "yet" recognized by the scientific community or USGS and indicate only the possibility for UNUSUAL and HIGH seismic activity. Previous windows (see sample later on) have accurately pin pointed earthquakes of a minimum of 6.0 and well above 6.5. " As above as below", everything is interconnected. The windows do not stop at earthquakes (HIGH) probability/intensity but include various ways of mother nature expressing herself through destructive weather pattern. This negative celestial energy (cyclonic reasonance) also affects sophisticated electronics equipments (planes/ boats/ trains/cars/ airport traffic control towers, generators/ electronics) thus the high possibility to experience failures/accidents leading to a lost of general power as experienced with both "state blackouts" that struck inside my windows. Those windows do also affects "physical" computers (viruses) and (spiritual) computer (brain) which is reacting with the subtle but real outside "stimuli". Thus under those windows, the worse elements of our society will respond and act out (robotic expressions) the will of the cosmos "Rodney King dilemma, Los Angeles riots etc. producing dramatic news with the police force". A Supernova month is about to unfold. Weeks before January 1996 I posted my predictions for a Supernova window.Then, a few weeks later, as anticipated "A record breaking weather development" hit New York early January 1996- September 1996 will be one of the worst month in 1996 in terms of weather development and natural disasters. On the following windows, expect the weather to go seriously out of hand. The upcoming nefarious energy will produce chain reaction accidents, oil spill, sea accidents. On certain given dates expect volcanoes eruption, tornadoes, floadings and large earthquakes. This energy will certainly affect airports electronics and thousands of travelers will be stucked "cancelation flights". Black out, lost of power and general communication is very high on my windows. If NASA decide to launch the shuttle, they are on for serious electronics failures and trouble then costly cancellations. A shuttle exploded a few years ago and many expansive satelites were lost during these "Supernova" windows. Here is the dates and please PRINT THEM! September 2nd - September 11th - September 17th- September 29th- The next Supernova window is for December 1996. To all - A Supernova month is in action, thus be ready for a very destructive celestial energy affecting the weather, producing hurricanes tornadoes and very large quakes on the given dates. Thousands of people will be affected and forced to relocate soon! (Fri-Sat; Sept 6th/7th. Large quakes/explosions and surprises are for Sun-Mon; Sept.8th/9th. Watch the dates posted for September Supernova month posts. Aeronautical disasters and sea accidents for the posted window of Sept. 11th. Stay safe. I would like to thanks all the people on this group for their participation. Respectfully to all Dr. Turi
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Subject: Re: Minestone as road material
From: heinrich@intersurf.com (P. V. Heinrich)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 23:59:45 -0600

In article <50n2f7$qhi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, smills1138@aol.com (SMills1138) wrote: + I'm doing research on the use of local minestone as roadbed material in + constructing rural roads. As there is a vast dearth of info on this + subject, I'd appreciate any leads or information anyone on this list might + provide. TIA. What is "minestone"? Is it tailings from mines and processing? In Colorado, the tailings from Uranium mines were once used for fill to build roads and houses on. Unfortuantely, this has caused all sorts of problems. In Louisiana, they use glauconite mined from small open pits to cover local roads. It rapidly weathers to form a nice solid roadbed. They use it even at Fort Polk where it forms a roadbed solid enough, without any asphalt binder, on which they can drive heavy tanks. Also, anhydrite from the caprock of the local Winnfield Salt Dome (Winn Parish) is also used on rural roads for roadbed. It can form a solid roadbed, but it is nowhere as durable as the glauconite. Sincerely, Paul V. Heinrich All comments are the heinrich@intersurf.com personal opinion of the writer and Baton Rouge, LA do not constitute policy and/or opinion of government or corporate entities. This includes my employer. To persons uninstructed in natural history, their country or seaside stroll is a walk through a gallery filled with wonderful works of art, nine-tenths of which have their faces turned to the wall. - T. H. Huxley
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Subject: Re: How can I stop the rotation of the earth?
From: s1045099@iplabs.ins.gu.edu.au
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:08:45 GMT

According to my calculations, you need to exert roughly 3x10^29 Joules. Now say you use a few 1000MW power plants to do the job, you should get it done in about 10,000,000,000,000 years! I'd advise your bad-guy to turn from his evil ways.
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Subject: Re: New groups - discussion - response to Oilver Seeler
From: e_rmwm@va.nmh.ac.uk (Roger Musson)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:01:42

In article <50j9bk$q0@newsfeeder.sdsu.edu> oseeler@mcn.org (Oliver Seeler) writes: >From: oseeler@mcn.org (Oliver Seeler) >Subject: Re: New groups - discussion - response to Oilver Seeler >Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:39:39 GMT >Richard Adams wrote: >[Snip snip excessive quotations of already requoted material ... a >habit this poster has not learned to control...] [ Snipping even more ... ] Pardon me for intruding on a private argument, but I'm just getting this faint feeling that all the arguments about moderation are turning out to be more of a hassle than the posts which moderation was supposed to protect us from. Roger Musson British Geological Survey e_rmwm@va.nmh.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Mankind's next step
From: pecora@zoltar.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 06:39:49 -0400

In article <50npk1$2e7@news1.total.net>, sjackson@Infobahnos.com wrote: > Whats all this got to do with GPS? Nothing. We forgot to trim the headers. Sorry. -- Lou Pecora code 6341 Naval Research Lab Washington DC 20375 USA pecora@zoltar.nrl.navy.mil /* My views are not those of the U.S. Navy. If you want their views, you have to go to war. */
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Subject: Geologist - South African Antartctic Earth Sciences Programme
From: Colin Jermy
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 14:24:23 -0700

UNIVERSITY OF NATAL DURBAN DEPARTMENT OF GEOLOGY AND APPLIED GEOLOGY Applications are invited from suitably qualified candidates for the following post from as soon as possible: GEOLOGIST SOUTH AFRICAN ANTARCTIC EARTH SCIENCES PROGRAMME DEPARTMENT OF GEOLOGY AND APPLIED GEOLOGY The successful candidate will be part of the University of Natal's Geological team in the Earth Sciences Programme of SANAP, the South African National Antarctic Programme. He or she will be required to do research on the metamorphic evolution of the high-grade metamorphic Kirwanveggen terrain of western Dronning Maud Land, with special reference to retrograde events. The candidate will accompany at least two summer expeditions to Antarctica. The first expedition is expected to take place during 1997/98. Some initial work may involve the setting up of databases and previous knowledge of databases will be an advantage, although not a requirement. The successful candidate will be expected to register for a post-graduate degree, preferably at the Doctoral level, although post-Doctoral candidates will also be considered. A non-taxable bursary in the range R35 000 to R40 000 will be payable per annum. The salary for a post-doctoral appointment will be negotiable. South African candidates will be given preference, although overseas applicants will be considered. Applicants should apply to: Prof J R Krynauw, Department of Geology and Applied Geology, University of Natal, Private Bag X10, DALBRIDGE, 4014, South Africa. A detailed curriculum vitae and the names of three suitable referees must be included with the application. The closing date for applications is 15 October 1996. Further information may be obtained from Prof J R Krynauw Tel: +27 31 260 2805 or for South African applicants: 031 260 2805, Fax: +27 31 260 2280, e-mail: krynauw@geology.und.ac.za
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Subject: 1997 INTERNATIONAL ASH UTILIZATION SYMPOSIUM
From: Gretchen Tremoulet
Date: 6 Sep 1996 12:17:08 GMT

ANNOUNCING: 1997 International Ash Utilization Symposium Oct. 20-22, 1997 Lexington, Kentucky (USA) Sponsors: University of Kentucky Center for Applied Energy Research and Elsevier Science, Ltd. / the journal FUEL Scope: all aspects of coal combustion by-product utilization For more information, go to our Worldwide Web Page: http://www.caer.uky.edu/ASH/ashhome.htm Questions? Please contact: Gretchen Tremoulet University of Kentucky Center for Applied Energy Research 3572 Iron Works Pike Lexington, KY 40511-8433 USA e-mail gtremoulet@alpha.caer.uky.edu phone (606) 257-0355, fax (606) 257-0360
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Subject: Re: Minestone as road material
From: reichln@ltec.net (Gary Reichlinger)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 14:09:18 GMT

smills1138@aol.com (SMills1138) wrote: >I'm doing research on the use of local minestone as roadbed material in >constructing rural roads. As there is a vast dearth of info on this >subject, I'd appreciate any leads or information anyone on this list might >provide. TIA. >S.Mills I once saw chromite ore being used as gravel on a road in Montana. It looked durable, but its availability would be very limited.
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: Stanley Watson
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 01:55:21 +1300

Frank wrote: > > Luciano d'Ilori wrote: > > > > What you're not taking into account is that the DNA molecule is a > > digital, error-correcting code. > > > > Because we can demonstrate that living things adapt to their > > surroundings, does not mean we've proved the neo-Darwinian theory of > > evolution. > > What I like to know how DNA or RNA which is so complex came to be by > mixture of amino acid and protiens? How does DNA multipled itself to be > so many? They follow certain laws. These may be called 'formative forces'. S.W.
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