Newsgroup sci.geo.geology 33486

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>>
>>>No, it would've a counter survival value.  It would either generate 
>>>overcrowding (in which case death would come from starvation, aging 
>>>not being an issue) or, assuming it would be accompanied by a greatly 
>>
>>Perhaps, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be an advantage to the
>>individuals who had the gene.  Have you heard of 'the tragedy of the
>>commons'?
>>
>>If you had 12 kids (and successfully raised them to adulthood), more
>>copies of your genes would reproduce, so in that sense your genes
>>would have an 'advantage,' i.e., they would be more likely dominate
>>the future population.  The fact that by doing this, you may be
>>screwing up the world for everyone in the future makes no difference.
>>Evolution, so to speak, is blind to that.
>>
>Yeah, that I agree with.  Events like this may indeed happen, the 
>emergence of a genotype which has an advantage within the species, 
>thus coming to dominate it and later possibly dragging it to 
>extinction.  You may consider, for example, a super efficient predator 
>(current ones aren't it, lions make a kill every forth try, on the 
>average, when hunting in group, a cheetah makes a kill every tenth 
>try).  Eventually all the species will share this "super efficient" 
>genotype and if they are efficient enough to wipe out their prey 
>faster then it breeds, it is curtains for them.  I've heard claims, 
>though I'm not sure how true they are, that this is what happened to 
>to saber-toothed tiger.
>Still, in the long run, genes like this are counterproductive.  
>Which is really what "the tragedy of the commons" shows.
Tim Flannery suggests that the same process has been occuring in the Pacific 
ever since humans entered that environment.   Because we are such efficient 
predators we have diminished our capacity to support ourselves in an 
environment that we were not evolved for. 
He claims that such 'future eating' was part of the reason the Maori evolved 
(perhaps not genetically) into such a belligerent race - fighting over 
dwindling resources -  and why on Easter Island, for example, human 
civilisation collapsed.  
It's an interesting read.
Scott

On 9 Sep 1996 19:13:19 GMT, ascott@vcn.bc.ca (andrew scott) wrote:
->References: 
->Organization: Vancouver CommunityNet
->Distribution: 
->Richard S. Brice (rsb@bromine.mcc.com) wrote:
->: >Not in Nature.  Nature always does everything bass-ackwards.  A good
 ->: >engineer looking at the way biological systems are constructed will
 ->: >throw up his hands at the sheer amateurishness of the designs.  Why do
->: >we have backup nostrils and lots of toes but only one heart or spinal
->: > cord?  Why is our vital heart muscle supplied by arteries that are
 ->: >barely large enough to carry the load and tend to get clogged more
->: > easily than any other blood vessels in the body?
->: A good engineer would first try and understand what the design
->: tradeoffs were and why the choices were made before offering
->: alternate designs.  And, the alternate designs would be made
->: credible by a thorough design tradeoff analysis.
->: Engineers make tradeoff decisions based on some set of
->: target criteria, e.g. manufacturability, survivability,
->: cost, weight, maintainability, ...  So far as I know, 
->: we don't yet have a list of mother nature's target
->: criteria (although some have been proposed, e.g. DArwim).
->Don't our arteries get clogged because of the garbage we consume?
No. Livers make cholesterol. If your is making too much, you might be able to
reduce your blood levels by 10% by rigorous diet and quitting smoking, but I
do mean _rigorous_. There are a few drugs that will help to reduce blood
cholesterol if your liver s over functioning but they don't always work. My Ex
had a hart attack in July, He is 46, and a vegetarian non smoker and non
drinker in good physical shape, but he had the misfortune to have bad parents.
Fortunately he was in the ER when his heart stopped and was treated promptly,
and is now OK. 
<=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=>
      Men, said the devil,
      are good to their brothers.
      they don't want to mend
      their own ways but each other's  Piet Hein, 1966
<=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=>

The GEOSCI-JOBS (Employment Opportunities for Earth Scientists) now
has an index to recent archives on the web. Link to
http://www.calweb.com/~tcsmith/mail/gsj-arc.html for access.
GEOSCI-JOBS is for announcing positions available only. This moderated
list is a free service for geologists, hydrologists, oceanographers,
paleontologists, earth science educators, petroleum and mining
engineers, and other disciplines in and related to the geosiences.
Announcements may be made for any employment setting (private
industry, government, university lectureships, postdocs, student
assistantships, and scholarships, and consultant opportunities),
whether full-time, part-time, permanent, or temporary.
It costs nothing to subscribe (via e-mail), nothing to post an
employment opportunity announcement, and nothing to access the
archives via the web and ftp. [My expenses are paid for by the banner
ad you'll see on the web page.] There were approximately 160 positions
(combined total) announced via the list during July and August. From
September 1-10, more than 45 geoscience-related vacancies have been
announced.
If you are looking for that perfect job or a top-notch new employee,
you owe it to yourself to check out GEOSCI-JOBS. For information on
how to subscribe, how to post a message, etc., see
http://www.calweb.com/~tcsmith/mail/geoscij.html.
Also, you might appreciate knowing that I recently updated and greatly
expanded the Online Resources for Earth Scientists: Employment
Resources pages. Now you can use these pages to link to the several
sites that have employment opportunity announcements and related
resources available on-line. Link to
http://www.calweb.com/~tcsmith/ores/jobs/ for access.
  -- Ted
       Ted Smith  or 
                          Mountains West Consulting
  GEOSCI-JOBS Archives: http://www.calweb.com/~tcsmith/mail/gsj-arc.html
Online Resources for Earth Scientists: http://www.calweb.com/~tcsmith/ores/

In article <32360E44.3828@bgu.edu>, Jim Kelly  writes:
>meron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>> 
>> In article <32353C02.44BF@cynergy.com.au>, BECMan  writes:
>> >> In evoloution the eye has occured 19 times, wings 3 times INTELLIGENT
>> >> once only.Has any one considered that humans may be an
>> >introduced species?
>> >For all I can see humans do not really fit in to
>> >this ecosystem an behaves very much as all
>> >introduced species, ie creating a big unbalance.
>> >
>> Really?  Then, what would you say about the photosyntetic bacteria
>> which created the biggest environmental impact of all times, forever
>> changing the Earth atmosphere and wiping out all previous life forms
>> in the process?
>> 
>> Mati Meron                      | "When you argue with a fool,
>> meron@cars.uchicago.edu         |  chances are he is doing just the same"
>
>
>   What were those? Oolites? I think much of the old atmosphere
>resides in the chalk Cliffs of Dover and similar formattions,
>within the skeletons of those and similars. The scale is
>massive.  
>-- 
I have no idea how they were called (maybe oolites, indeed) but I 
don't think they had much to do with the chalk cliffs.  As far as 
I know these were produced later (by oxygen breathers).  But yes, 
probably most of the CO2 that ever existed is locked in those chalk 
cliffs.
I remember reading that iron deposits date to the the transition from 
reducing to oxidizing atmosphere.  It was a truly massive event, if 
EPA would've existed at the time it would've got a fit.
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"

In article , s1045099@iplabs.ins.gu.edu.au writes:
>>>
>
>Tim Flannery suggests that the same process has been occuring in the Pacific 
>ever since humans entered that environment.   Because we are such efficient 
>predators we have diminished our capacity to support ourselves in an 
>environment that we were not evolved for. 
>
>He claims that such 'future eating' was part of the reason the Maori evolved 
>(perhaps not genetically) into such a belligerent race - fighting over 
>dwindling resources -  and why on Easter Island, for example, human 
>civilisation collapsed.  
>
>It's an interesting read.
>
Sounds good.  But you left out the book's title.
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"

Robert Brown wrote:
>My discussion thread relates to the global system of mountains (Rockies, Central America, Andes, trans-Antarctic, western Australian Rise, Phillipine Island Chain, Kolyma Range of Asia, Brooks Range of Alaska, and McKenzies of Canada) that, in fact, forms a great circle (correcting for 65 million years of plate motions) centered on the world's largest igneous-enriched volcanic mountain, e.g. Hawaii.  Estimates in the literature for the age of the volcanism at the Hawaii mantle site range from 65 to 70 million years, placingits temporal origins near or at the KT boundary.
>My contention is that Hawaii (the primary volcanic site) was created by a very large impact occurring at this site, and that the mountains named above represent the impact crater's rim.  I am not the first to assert that volcanism in oceanic locations is due to cosmic collisions, but I do believe that I am the first to attribute terrestrial orogeny to large bolide impacts in oceanic sites.  I feel very confident about the Hawaii site because I have a detailed model of plate tectonic motions (going back to the first creation of a veneer or continental crust via plasma deposition mechanisms following the planetary-scale collision that functions as the standard astrophysical model for the origin of the Moon) that correlate all of Earth's other major mountain (the exception being the Urals) systems with other impact sites in other locations.
Is it your contension that all of these mountain ranges are the same 
age.  Also if they are part an impact crater rim why do we not find 
evidense of shocked quartz and plagioclase throughout these mountain 
ranges.  I personally have seen shocked quartz and plagioclase only in 
moon rocks, but I am aware of them being associated with impact sites 
in Arizona and at the impact site in the Yucatan area, and some other 
sites.  If your theory is correct we should see a lot more shocked 
quartz and plagioclase all over the earth. Either included in the 
rocks or as detrital sediments.
Do you believe that the Hawaiian/Emperor Sea mount hot spot was 
created by a large bollide impact? 
If so what about the hot spot currently centered approximatly under 
Yellowstone National Park?
Also there are theory's that the moon and the earth were formed 
together approximatly 4 billion years ago. Also I am qawar of theories 
that the moon wandered into the eaths gravitational field and was 
captured in that way.
Do you disregard all plate tectonic theory, paleontologic data, ocean 
drilling core data and/or paleomagnetic data that shows no great 
disturbance in the Pacific plate such as a large bolide impact 65my in 
the Pacific.
I find your arguments interesting but way off the mark of the known 
gelogic record of the past 65 million years.  While I do believe that 
a large bollide probably was in part responsible for many of the 
extinction events over geologic time the intrinsic evidense suggests 
these are fairly rare occurances.
Brian Reed (SDSU)

In article <325b13f9.58110421@news.accucomm.net>, puddin@ask.again.com 
says...
>
>On 8 Sep 1996 09:44:08 GMT, Dr.Turi@worldnet.att.net (drturi) wrote:
>>
>>Dear Sir, I do not only predict earthquakes but also fires! Free 
>>astropsychology--- 
>
>I suppose that you do great card tricks, too. 
>What's that?  Are you quacking again? 
HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW? You could at least wait for the results!!  You've got a 
long way to go. "and the eternity to get there :)
>
In article <515k4a$lf5@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, 
Dr.Turi@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>
>>
>>Incorrect -- he's a businessman (albeit a very annoying one) trying 
>to
>>sell a product. His best chance to sell his product is for a neophyte 
>to
>>read his uncontested posts and decide that he (Turi) is onto 
>something. I
>>am grateful for the debunkers in this world and wish there were a lot 
>more
>>of them.
>>
>>Michael Williams                                t/$=1
>>Arroyo Grande, CA                   
>
>Got a lot to learn!!!! and eternity to do so :-)
>Path: 
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From: moanare2@aol.com (Moana Re 2)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Dr Turi's predictions
Date: 10 Sep 1996 23:05:59 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: moanare2@aol.com (Moana Re 2)
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Well, today is 9/11 in Japan........Tokyo has a 6.6 earthquake, centered
in the Pacific.....with a Tsunanmi warning.  You were at least on the
right side of the world on this.  
>I'll be gone to a  conference in  Austin TX - 4.30AM :(  I wont be 
>able to 
>answer some of your silly notes thus don't be mad at me I have to make 
>a 
>(very good) living.  Watch my window and the unfolding drama (as 
>usual).  
>
>On the window of Sept. 17th many will get a wake up call, but noting 
>like 
>the window of Sept. 29th where you will see the real power behind my 
>work.  
>
>Just be patient and all the pin heads out there spare me with your 
>frustration (based upon your ignorance).   The window of Sept. 22nd 
>will see 
>a lot of disturbance/explosions/volcanoe eruption? and surprising news 
>for 
>many of you.  The past is coming alive with people you have not seen 
>for a 
>long time will call you or surprise you.  Take care of your car it 
>might let 
>you down now and dont be mad at "Kinkos" if their equipments let you 
>down.
>Avoid travelling you may get stuck in an airport with flights 
>CANCELATIONS.
>
>You can expect to have problem with "any and all" of your electronic 
>equipment too.
> 
>The worse that could really happen to us is a virus!!!!!!!!! NASA of 
>course 
>as usual will waste your tax dollar with "electronic mulfunction" or 
>waste millions of dollars with another lost of an expansive satellite, 
>they 
>may also pospond the lift up of the shuttle because of bad weather- 
>(its 
>only $500.000 each time) Makes you think yea!
>
>Forgive my English I am French man  doing his best to communicate in a 
>foreign langage.  Do not criticize my "orthograph", unless you can 
>converse 
>in MY natal French (and as good as I do!).
>
>
>At 11:51 PM 9/10/96 +0000, you wrote:
>>drturi wrote:
>>> survivor wrote:
>>> To all - A Supernova month is in action, thus be ready for a very
>>> destructive celestial energy affecting the weather, producing
>>> "Edouards (S)"
>
>>
>>Name the place. The date has passed.
>>
>>> 
>>> Large quakes/explosions and surprises are for Sun-Mon; 
>Sept.8th/9th.
>> Name the quake/explosions please!
>
>96/09/09 00:20:38  31.99S  71.39W  38.6 6.1Mb A  NEAR COAST OF CENTRAL
>CHILE
>
>
>>From: @mercury.jodco.co.jp (G////on)
>To: Dr.Turi@worldnet.att.net
>Subject: TOKYO EQ - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996 WINDOW
>Content-Md5: A1J8X7B/////vcaJS8I5g==
>Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 03:01:12 +0000
>
>Dearest Dr. Turi,  At 11:45 am (Tokyo time) 11 September 1996, we here 
>at 
>the Mt Fuji Universal Centre for Knowledge and Understanding People 
>experienced an 
>earthquake of, as yet, indeterminate magnitude.  Thank-you, Dr. Turi, 
>for 
>forecasting this event.  His Divine Omniscience was engaged in 
>personal 
>activities at the time, and enjoyed an extra burst of earth-energy.  
>This 
>earthquake was a direct hit for your 11 September window.  Your 
>spiritual 
>holism and intuitive thinking have once again triumphed !  Keep-up the 
>good 
>work.  Peace long-life, and happiness, Master 
>
>I can wait to swing from N.Korea to Japan and meet those great guys in 
>March 
>1997.  I will make a few "accurate" predictions for them before then 
>;)
>
>See you upon my retrun from Texas.  That is around the  19th of this 
>month 
>(I might have to rent a suite at at Hilton/as usual) to take care of 
>all the 
>people requesting my services, thus I might be a bit late.  I' ll miss 
>this 
>group.
>
>Stay safe
>
>Respectfully to all
>
>
>Dr. Turi
>
>

Before the stable oxygen isotope ratios can be used to discern the respective parent planets/moons/asteroids 
for meteorites, one must:
A) Demonstrate statistically valid differences between the meteoritic groups being compared;
B) Know the mass-dependent correction factors that should be applied for any particular rock's age of 
crystallization.  For example, a rock that last crystallized on Earth 4.5 billion years ago SHOULD have a 
different oxygen isotope ratio than one that last crystallized, for example, last week. This is because the 
accretional mass of a planetary body increases over time and the mass of the accretional body is an important 
physical factor in the process that generates variations in stable oxygen isotope ratios.
We do not possess a sufficent number of SNC meteorites to make statistically valid statements re their 
origin(s) on the basis of stable oxygen isotope ratios, and we do not know the rate of accretion for Mars or 
Earth.  Both limitations have severely restricted the scientific utility of stable oxygen isotope ratios in the 
 process of making valid statements re the "Martian" or SNC class of meteorites.
Robert D. Brown, M.D.
Pelorus Research Laboratory

Ed Nuhfer wrote:
> science. Maybe we should all post 10 math problems a day each onto their
> discussion groups until they really get the hint.
Won't work. They are hint-free.
Dan Evens

John Chandler wrote:
> 
> In article <50vqki$m7j@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
> Archimedes Plutonium  wrote:
> >In article <50qk1s$11n@news.cis.okstate.edu>
> >jpc@a.cs.okstate.edu (John Chandler) writes:
> >
> >> Come on, guys.  Let's be accurate.
> >
> >> Come on, guys.  Let's be accurate.
> >> APH is _not_ a dishwasher at the Cambridge Inn,
> >> he's a POT smoker (really!) at the Cambridge Inn.
> >> (The Cambridge Inn is owned by Oklahoma State Univ, it's true.)
> 
>    [munch]
> >
> >>    APH = Antisemitic Potsmoker Hawking
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Chandler
> >> jpc@a.cs.okstate.edu
> 
> Whoops!
> There he goes again, Archimedes Plutonium intentionally
> misquoting (lying).  He just can't help himself, apparently.
> 
> How pathetic.
> 
> --
> John Chandler
> jpc@a.cs.okstate.edu
And in the process, Archie has done nothing short of ripping apart one
of the most brilliant young minds in physics.  I guess Archie really
does feel threatened by such greatness!
	Eric Lucas

In article <3234F1E0.12A5@navix.net>, "Robert says...
>
>"Plate bumping" does create mountains, but the bumping is secondary, in most instances, to the immediate 
>or delayed effects of impacts and gravitational accretion.  RDB
Only secondary eh, hmmmmmm.... Delayed effects eh, hmmmmmm.......
Bumping plates?????????
Maybe you can state your model for mountain building on the earth's surface 
for us. I find this new impact tectonics very interesting considering my 
proximity to the Sudbury basin; which I am sure you will agree was a very 
large impact structure. So I am sure you can use the structural characteristics 
of the Sudbury basin (of course after you de-strain the deformation produced 
by the Grenville orogeny (or was that another impact)) as a basis for a
comparison. BTW, don't froget to throw in some structural geology and rock 
mechanics into your model.
Archae Solenhofen (jmcarth1@gtn.net)
"..every structure in a rock is significant,
                 none is unimportant, even if, at first sight
                             it may seem irrelevant."
                                                  -- Ernst Cloos , 1946
>> --
>> There is no dimension without time.  --RBF (Synergetics, 527.01)
>> (Brian Hutchings -- ba137@lafn.org)

In a previous article, cjones@mantle.colorado.edu (Craig Jones) says:
very interesting; anyway, doc.Brown's question
about the volcanists of 30ya, re the topos of Moon, are exactly
what Patrick Moore, FRAS gets into in his books on the moon,
with the proviso that the 2 editions that I read put a different spin
on it, considering that there'd been such a jerk
toward the other extreme, of assuming that they're *all* impacts;
it just doesn't wash with the nonrandom features, he thought.
	anyway, I don't see how you can escape the verdicts
of the Emperor Seamounts that were mentioned, doctor.
	I'd like to know if the force *of* the rifts' acreting magma,
which has been compared to a shoptool called a _________, are enough
to shove the plates into the trenches, *if*
they're melted, there, rather than subducted, as is assumed.  (unfortunately,
I've forgotten the name of the machine-tool, but
it essentially generates huge pressures from 2 thick plates
that are edge-on .-)
>Actually there is a third mechanism involving body forces related to the
>topography of the ocean floor (it sort of gets mentioned in the explanation
>of edge forces).  While "slab pull" is truly an edge force, "ridge push" is
>more an integration of body forces all through the ocean floor.  (Coblentz
>and Sandiford have had a few papers the past few years on this set of
>calculations).  This avoids embarrassingly high stresses within oceanic
>lithosphere.
-- 
There is no dimension without time.  --RBF (Synergetics, 527.01)
(Brian Hutchings -- ba137@lafn.org)

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From: moanare2@aol.com (Moana Re 2)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Dr Turi's predictions
Date: 10 Sep 1996 23:05:59 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: moanare2@aol.com (Moana Re 2)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Well, today is 9/11 in Japan........Tokyo has a 6.6 earthquake, 
centered
in the Pacific.....with a Tsunanmi warning.  You were at least on the
right side of the world on this.  

Brian C. Reed wrote:
> 
> :
>  I have a question what is the Pelorus Research Laboratory and what
> does it research.  
The Pelorus Research Laboratory is a privately owned corporation that performs contract research analyses.  
Current research projects are federally funded through direct grants.  Two projects are presently underway.  
One project involves the supercomputer simulation of parity-breaking interactions of coronal mass ejections 
(CME's) with comet tails.  Comet tails are radially oriented in respect to the Sun and extend many millions of 
miles behind cometary nuclei.  CME's are non-linear processes through which large volumes of solar coronal 
material are ejected from the Sun's rotating surface.  Because of their confinement by magnetic flux and 
self-gravitation, these large masses of hot solar gas retain angular momentum as they traject away from the 
Sun.  This motion relative to prograde and retrograde moving long period comets establishes the theoretical 
foundations for "parity-breaking" interactions with comet tails.  It is hypothesized that this parity-breaking 
interaction of CME's with comet tails may explain: (A) the origin of asteroids as "CME-Fried Comets", and B) 
the asymmetrical distribution of long, intermediate, and short period comets.  This theoretical work may, in 
the distant future, outline a way to ablate large Earth-heading comets using non-nuclear technologies.  
The second active research project involves the crystalline precipitation of monomeric organic molecules in 
magnetic environments (e.g. elementally pure iron) and their impact-catalyzed polymerization.  Current work is 
directed toward the abiotic synthesis of nucleotide polymers that have individually unique 
surface-complementary peptides.
Robert D. Brown, M.D.
Founder
Pelorus Research Laboratory  
> Brian Reed
> MS Geological Sciences SDSU

Now, I gotta be the first one to admit that this is funny stuff below!
(I'm serious!)  He don't know snot about science, but his humorous prose
is just brilliant.  "PUT A HEAVY ELEMENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS FALL"
bumper stickers???  Hee hee hee.  (ROTFL)  What a knee-slapper!  
Well done, Archie.
	Cheers,
		Eric
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> 
> There is exactly *one* difference between AP and Clinton and Dole:
> there's only one of him, but there are a four of them.  Think about
> it--both espouse completely unprovable/untestable "theories", that they
> claim explain everything, but in reality only explain things through
> fiat.  Both are very enticing "theories" that offer false promises of
> explaining everything, and lull minds that don't know better into
> believing them.  Both have delusions of grandeur and both will insult
> you with sanctimonious self-aggrandisement if you dare to disagree with
> them.  One damns you to hell if you don't agree with them, and the other
> damns you to taxes (although I fail to see why being committed to
> eating Big Macs forever is any form of damnation!)  And both are always
> quoting some damn "hymn" or "prayer" or another at MacDonalds.
>
> Don't get me correct, I agree that Archie is the best candidate than
> the democrats.   But make no mistake, both parties *are* true forces of
> ignorance, and the only difference is that the Democrats have amassed
> a much larger following.
>
> So write in your vote of Archimedes Plutonium
>
>  Sponsored by the Eric Lucas, David Bromage, and Dan Evens , and the League of Women > campaign to elect AP to the Oval Office
>
> PUT A HEAVY ELEMENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS FALL bumper sticker will be
> sent to the Plutonium for President
> 
> Archie can be seen in the Debate televized on CNN next month.
>
> Archie's campaign slogan is
> 
> "  Vote for me,  I    am   the    man     who   will  stay
> 
>    Right    with    you   and    see    this  thing   Through "
> 
> 
> 
> Vote for the man who will stay right there with you and see this thing
> through to the end.
> 
> So please write in your vote , no matter if you are a foreigner or not, in > fact post your vote to the newsgroup sci.chem and show your support for the > Next to be Elected President of the United States -- Archimedes Plutonium
> 
> ELect Archimedes Plutonium as the next president of the US
>

>required original, intelligent design in making both the 
>computer, itself, and the microcoding required for the cpu.
>I would never compare anything to evolution since I do not
>believe the theory in the first place.
Boy, sometimes don'tchya want to take these engineer weenies 
pig-ignorant of chemistry and biology and just slap them
around a while?
>All chance.  But that is also not what some other evolutionists 
>speak.  They speak of goals.  Even the word 'selection' implies 
>some sort of mechanism which implies a plan.  If there is no 
>plan, no purpose, as you say, then how can one speak of 
>'selection,' regardles of what one claims to be the impetus, 
> natural that is?
The purpose behind biological evolution is to leave descendants.
Next question.
>If you say so.  Yet if it all happened by accident, why can you 
>not replicate it.  Do not theories require replication and 
>predictability.  
Do you understand statistics? Do you believe that there is such
a thing as a valid statistical theory? If so, predict the next 
Texas state lotto number. Is the light beginning to dawn? (Hint:
random continginencies are important for predicting outcomes
even a complete theory is in hand.)
>That is what I said.  Those who wrote the program could not beat 
>him, so they could not write a program which could beat him.  No 
>argument there.  Hell, I know.  I beat Fischer three times.  No 
>machine could do that.
[...]
>Write a program which can beat me in chess.  You will not be able
>to do it because you probably can't beat me in the first place.  
Jerkweed. The computer beat Kasparov in the first game. Go 
learn somthing about the biological science of the last 150
years and you may avoid embarassing yourself in ithis way in
the future.

In article <50.48737795.Logic.IS@logicbbs.org>, Marilyn.Fraser@logicbbs.org 
says...
>
>I am a geology student and planning a trip to the mineral show at 
>Ste-Marie-aux-Mines next June. I would like any information on the geology 
>of the area - minerals that might be found (for collecting) and if there is 
>a possibility of fossils that could be collected there. 
>
>I would also be interested in the general geology of the area. It is in the 
>valley called the valley of silver because there were active silver mines 
>there.
>
>Thanks for any tips, info or ideas.
Marilyn,
I don't know precisely about fossils in the Sainte Marie aux Mines district, 
probably there is some of them in the Alsace plain, others can be found in the 
Lorraine region neighbour of the Alsace/Vosges region.
The region was very rich in mines (silver...), one of them has been converted 
in museum and can be visited.
I know the region is still a paradise for micromounters.
I recommand, if you read french,those two books:
"Mineraux et mines du Massif vosgien"
J-L Hohl
(price is 275 FF)
"Vosges, Alsace"
J-P, Von Eller
Serie des guides geologiques Masson
(price is 192 FF)
Both can be purchase at:
"Mineraux & Fossiles"
10 rue de Marignan
75008    PARIS
         FRANCE
phone; (33-1) 42.25.91.85
Fax:   (33-1) 42.25.74.34
Hope this helps.
Best regards
#######################################################################
  Jean-Michel    Le Cleac'h                 lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr  
  Ecole des Mines de Paris                 Tel: (33-1) 40.51.91.65   
          60 Bd. Saint-Michel                 Fax: (33-1) 43.26.36.56    
          75006           PARIS                 http://www.ensmp.fr/    
                          FRANCE          see our minerals collection:    
http://cri.ensmp.fr/mineral
Ce message est emis a titre personnel et n'engage pas l'Ecole des Mines de 
Paris.
This message reflects my own opinion and does not engage the Ecole des Mines 
de Paris.
#########################################################################

We have a vacancy for a PostDoctoral Fellow in Quantitative 
Stratigraphic Modelling (ref. 4943).
The position is available for an initial period of 12 months.
The NCPGG home page is on http://www.ncpgg.adelaide.edu.au/ncpgg.html
The project involves the design and implementation of 2D forward and 
inverse stratigraphic models. Experience with quantitative modelling, 
genetic algorithms, and mathematical inversion is required.
Further information can be obtained from:
Prof. Cedric M. Griffiths,              
National Centre for                     
Petroleum Geology and Geophysics        
University of Adelaide, SA 5005,        
Australia                               
 http://www.ncpgg.adelaide.edu.au/ncpgg.html
Fax: +61 8 303 4345   EMail   cgriffiths@ncpgg.adelaide.edu.au

In article <515kfr$lf5@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Dr.Turi@worldnet.att.net (Mr. Turi) wrote:
> Well, today is 9/11 in Japan........Tokyo has a 6.6 earthquake, 
> centered
> in the Pacific.....with a Tsunanmi warning.  You were at least on the
> right side of the world on this.  
You still haven't explained how you MISSED the much LARGER 7.1 earthquake
earlier in the week, that was completely OUTSIDE all of your "windows."
You are a fraud and a charlatan.
-- 
** Unsolicited commercial Email delivered to this address will be
subject to a $1500 charge. Emailing such items, whether manually or
automatically, constitutes acceptance of these terms & conditions.**
Linc Madison  *  San Francisco, Calif. *  LincMad@Eureka.vip.best.com

dnorton@ici.net wrote:
> 
> Why join an ongoing MLM program when you can start your own with half the initial investment !!
> 
>         Because of the potential of  making  thousands, there must be an investment up front.
> Most  MLM  programs this investment is usually  between $200.--$400.
>         When joining an ongoing program you must first purchase four (4) reports at $5.00 each ,
> for a total initial investment of $20.  Hereís the problem,  if you decide that
> the program is not what you expected, you lose the $20.  Instead of  wasting  $20 on a program you
> may  not use, Invest just $5.00 and receive insiders information on how these plans really operate.
> In this detail packet you will be provided with the following information ,
> 
> 1.      Testimonials from real people like yourself .
> 2.      Brief descriptions on the following four reports.(which are the                 heart of the plan.)
>         REPORT #1       ėHow to make $250,000  through multi-level sales.î
>         REPORT #2       ėMajor corporations and multi-level sales.î
>         REPORT #3       ėSources for the best mailing lists.î
>         REPORT #4       ėEvaluating multi-level sales programs.î
> 
> With this information, you will be able to make an educated decision as to whether or not multi-level sales is right for you.  Also you will get 
information on
> 
> For the above information packet, send $5.00 cash and a self addressed satmped enveloped to:
> 
> J.R.
> PO BOX 492
> RANDOLPH, MA 02368This really only works for about the first 2 or 3 levels. If you did the 
maths you will find out that by the time your turn comes you will need more 
people that there are on earth. This is using the conservative figures 
outlined on your info packet. 
ie if you send it to 100 people (first level). 10% accept then this will 
cause 1000 letters to be sent (second level).10% send 100 letters this makes 
100x100 = 10000 letters sent (third level). 10% send 100 letters this makes 
1000x100 = 1E5 (fourth level). 10% send 100 letters -> 1E6. 10% send 100 
-> 1E7 ie 10 million people. This is when you get your money. This means that 
by if i live in Australia (Australia~20 million people) for 1 out of 2 woman 
man and child must have aggreed to sent 100 letters. By this time you all 
those who did not accept must have got a lot of letters, (that is if you did 
not get picked by any of the other chains generated by you) and the post will 
then be billionares, as well as the people who make envelopes and paper. 
This process is not self sustained. It does not generate wealth it only moves 
it. In the end if it kept going with 10% acceptance in a few month you would 
eventually get millions of letters, which would cost more to continue than 
the money you made in the first place.
Stop this rip off !!!
I beleive there are some countries where this is illigal. Unfortunately they 
(the chain letter generators) came up with the solution of "selling" some 
second hand paper (already printed on and usless other than for recycling). 
But it is the same rip off.
The education system should include this example in the maths curriculum so 
that people do not fall for it.
Francisco A. Shi

On 9/9/96 12:11AM, in message <50vga2$ck5@niflheim.rutgers.edu>, Michael 
Huemer  wrote:
> mwfisher@cts.com (Michael W. Fisher) writes:
> 
> > And nature doesn't give one tiny shit about the phenotypes opinion 
> >in the matter, even if the phenotype has achieved the self-consciousness 
> >necessary to have an opinion.
> 
> Well, since nature isn't conscious, nature doesn't really give a shit
> about anything.  But I take it the metaphor is that the organism's
> opinions don't affect the likelihood of its reproducing.  Actually,
> this doesn't seem to be true.  If the organism, if it's
> self-conscious, *wants* to reproduce copies of itself, then it is much
> more likely to do so than if it doesn't want to.
> 
> > Women achieve full physical maturity alightly earlier than men, but 
> >even for men, final physical maturity is achieved at about 25. Measurable 
> >physical deterioration sets in after 30--which if you recall is the mean 
> >age of adult death in pre-technological societies.
> 
> I suspect the first figure is high, and the second one low (not that
> it really makes much difference).  It seems to me that men are
> physiologically mature at the age of about 16 (we're not talking about
> emotionally).  Also, isn't 30 a little young for deterioration?  I
> would think it would be more like 30.  And remember that the life
> expectancy was low mostly because of infant mortality, not because
> people had heart attacks at 30.  (Remember that if half the people
> died at 1 year old, then the true life expectancy, if you removed all
> of those babies, would have to be around 60.  I do not know what the
> infant mortality statistics actually are, though.)
> 
> -- 
>                                               ^-----^ 
>  Michael Huemer         / O   O \
>  http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~owl             |   V   | 
>                                               \     / 
FYI
Physical deterioration sets in at appx 26 yrs of age.
From that age onwards , the rate of cell death exceeds cell replacement in the 
human body.
Sean Webb

In sci.geo.geology, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> 
> In article <50qk1s$11n@news.cis.okstate.edu>
> jpc@a.cs.okstate.edu (John Chandler) writes:
The article referenced is not present on my local server,
and I am unable to locate the text quoted at Dejanews.
Can anyone explain why?
B@B.B

William R. Penrose wrote:
> 
> Classical Newtonian mechanics works great.  So why did God/Whatever make the
> universe relativistic?  This really complicates things unnecessarily.
> 
> (This doesn't mean that I am not amazed and delighted that the whole
> contraption works at all.)
It only looks complicated to us now. 
Imagine your self being a 2 dimensional being (you can only prcive width and 
depth) if you tried to analyse a 3 dimensional entity (it would appear as 
lots of incomprehensible lines as you scan a 2 dimensional plane thru the 
height of 3 dimensional object) it would be very confusing, but if you add 1 
more dimension it becomes very clear.
One day some one will come up with a theory that makes relativity look like 
an ovious way to do it.
Francisco A. Shi

Subject:  Publishing Scholarly Work on the Web -- opinion anyone?
I'd appreciate any pro and con arguments on the subject of this letter. 
Since this matter touches upon all the sci.*, many comp.* and other
newsgroups, I'll try to cross post this message.  
The TechExpo Web site would like to open up a ScienceExpo section
dedicated to the publication of scholarly works in HTML format (TechExpo
already provides an array of services to the science & technology
community; see http://www.techexpo.com).  
			THE RATIONALE IS AS FOLLOWS:
1) The peer-review process of scientific journals may take from many
months to over a year.  
2) The review process is often arbitrary in nature.
3) The access to the work is limited because many libraries do not carry
the journal, or it is too expensive for an individual subscription
4) A journal in any field carries work that is much broader than that of
individual researcher or engineer so important papers are often obscured
because they do not quite belong in any particular journal.
5)  Because of the multi-disciplinary nature of technology and science,
some topic have applicability in more than one field, and no journal or
conference may cover such broad fields.
6) Papers posted at ScienceExpo will be searchable not only by key
words, but the author will be able to select any number of applicability
categories from a list of over 400 existing categories (see the TechExpo
classification schedule). 
7)  papers will be searchable via all the Web search engines.  
8)  The author can still submit the posted paper to refereed journals.
			PUBLICATIONS AT ScienceExpo WILL:
a)  Appear within 48 hours of submittal
b)  The paper will be immediately available to the entire community
c) The paper will indexed and could be found by all researchers via the
Internet search engines, or internal ScienceExpo search tools (using any
keyword, author name, institution name, etc.)
d) The author can select any number of fields of science and technology
form a list of over 400 (see TechExpo Classification Schedule) to reach
the target audience much broader than any one journal can
e) Authors can hot-link all references directly from their paper
f)  On-line discussion of papers can be conducted within the appropriate
UseNet groups
g) Papers may be copies and printed or forwarded to others
electronically or by other means.  
			SOME PROPOSED GROUND RULES:
(A) Work submitted must be of original nature and of value to science or
technology
(B) The paper must carry the full names of the authors and institution,
including address, phone number, fax, and e-mail.
(C) Ethical conduct:  Papers posted at ScienceExpo should be treated as
any other publication.  They represent the scientific work of colleagues
and should be treated as such.  If information is quoted, the proper
reference should be given credit.  
(D) When copying, forwarding, etc., the entire paper, including the
authors information, institution, as well as the ScienceExpo source
should be included.  
Obviously ScienceExpo will not referee papers; the authors' names and
the institution they represent are put on the line -- so posting papers
ON-LINE should be given as much or more care and thought as submitting a
paper to prestigious journals
			A FEW TECHNICALITIES:
(i) The entire paper must be submitted in HTML, and graphs, figures and
charts in gif or jpg format  (this is a deviation from common formats
requiring PostScript or TEX, to allow viewing papers using the
newsreader built into popular browsers, and to allow indexing such
papers by all the Web search engines) 
(ii) Maximum size for text files and graphics will have to be observed
(iii) Equation should be edited using the HTML specifications, or
scanned and pasted as graphics files
(iv) It is the author's responsibility to secure authorization of the
institution and/or the research funding authority to submit the
publication.  
Finally here is the most sticky point.  If the service if totally free
of charge, I'm concerned there will be a deluge of frivolous
publishing.  I consider a fee structure to act as a "potential
Barrier."   A low, yet significant fee (hopefully) will discourage the
unwarranted publications, but will not be too high to discourage worthy
publications.  Perhaps academic institutions will receive a discount,
but corporations will pay somewhat higher fee also to defray the costs
of the service.  
So one question is whether a fee imposed on publication will completely
stifle interest?  Is for example, a one-time publication fee of $400 for
a corporation, and $100 for academia too high a fee?
One more comment as to why should TechExpo do this.  In my opinion
technical societies (and I belong to a few) could do the job but the
problem of cross discipline relevance will not be solved.  So being
unaffiliated with any technical society or technical magazine, TechExpo
is a neutral ground most appropriate for this job.  What's more,
TechExpo is already providing technology and science information for
almost two years.
Is this idea totally freakish?
Well, the floor is now open for debate.
Private communications are welcomed but posted comments/debate is
preferred.  
Nahum Gat, Ph.D.
President
Opto-Knowledge Systems, Inc. (OKSI)
Web:  http://www.techexpo.com/WWW/opto-knowledge
E-mail:	oksi@cerfnet.com
		or
	nahum@techexpo.com