Newsgroup sci.geo.geology 34059

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Walter Minkel  wrote:
>Folks-- I am an author (I wrote a "fun" history of the kooky theory about
>a "Hollow Earth" with UFOs that fly in & out of the North & South Poles,
>called _Subterranean Worlds_ that was published by Loompanics Unlimited in
>1989) who needs a bit of technical assistance. Now I'm working on a
>fantasy novel, part of which takes place in a huge cavern near the earth's
>core. Yes, I know that such a thing is scientifically impossible, but I'm
>dealing with that in a cynical way--in true fantasy style, the cavern 
>world is held together by magic, but now the magic's loosening its hold 
>and the rules of science are beginning to assert themselves again.
>
>I am wondering whether anyone on this list could give me some help on the 
>stresses human bodies would undergo if there could be an open place in 
>the deep mantle or core. When researching my book in the 80's, I read in 
>a few places that at or near the center of the earth, there would be 
>almost equal gravity from all sides, and a human would weigh only a few 
>ounces depending on one's location. I've never seen any hard scientific 
>testimony that this would be so, however. I'm interested in whether 
>people could build houses on all the walls of this cave (let's say it 
>would be five hundred miles long and average two hundred or so miles from 
>the core), whether people would nearly float, or be affected by gravity in 
>some other way. How would water, if there were lakes, for example, behave?
>
>I appreciate any help you'd be willing to give, I apologize if this is too
>off-topic for this newsgroup (I would appreciate any ideas for where I
>might post my request if it is), and I plan to acknowledge in the book
>anyone who can help. Please send any replies to the e-mail address below.
>Thanks! --W
I'll give this a try.  Inside the earth, the gravity from the mass of the 
spherical shell above you cancels out (equal on all sides) so gravity would 
be less, even though you are closer to the core.  Back of the envelope 
calculations follow:
g=G*m/r*r (acceleration is proportional to mass over radius squared)
m=4/3(d*pi*r*r*r)  (mass is equal to density times volume)
substituting m into the first equation:
g=K*r (where K is the product of a bunch of constants = 9.8/6,400,000)
This assumes a constant density earth, which is not true, but shows the 
appropriate trend.
So, at 200 miles (320,000 meters) from the core, gravity would be roughly 
320,000/6,400,000 or 1/20th of that at the surface.  [A couple guys could 
easily pick up a typical sedan and move it from place to place.]
-- 
John J. Viveiros           jviv@chevron.com (work)
Midland Texas              vttw74a@prodigy.com (home)
If this wasn't a .com account, I wouldn't be a lurker.

thuxley@gulf.net (THuxley) wrote:
>It is really sad but the above post shows the mentality of most followers
>of evolutionary doctrine on this news group.
Please refrain from making such general statements, as you obviously
have not shown any credentials which qualify you to speak about my
mentality or that of any of the other "followers of evolutionary
doctrine" represented here. Speaking for myself, I have an IQ of
roughly 180-190, SAT-verbal score of 760, SAT-math score of 760,
physics ACT-physics score of 720, ACT-English comp score of 760,
ACT-mathematics II score of 790, and GRE scores of 780, 800, and 800.
(Maximum scores on all these tests are 800.)
I have a degree in computer science, with minors in physics,
mathematics, and psychology. I am considered by most of my friends as
one of the smartest people they know. And, IMHO, I am probably of only
average intellect in the group you characterize as "followers of
evolutionary doctrine."
Lest you misunderstand, I am not here trying to blow my own horn, or
convince you to give up your "misguided" ideas, if you are in fact a
creationist. All I am saying is that when you make such a blanket
statement about those who characterize evolution theory as eminently
more scientifically plausible (note the terminology) than creationism,
you are in severe danger of being perceived as a total and complete
idiot.
>If they are confronted with any valid arguments or any valid empirical data,
>that cast serious doubt on the theory of evolution, their underdeveloped minds
>short circuit and all they can do is show how really stupid they are and spew
>filth like the above post by Wissenschaftler. (this probably means retarder
>waterhead dumbass in German however I don't speak the language).
Please confront me with valid arguments or data, or the newsgroup for
that matter, and I think that you will receive many intelligent
responses. We cannot, of course, guarantee that *you* will not
perceive them as stupid, but I can generally stipulate that any
response from me will be unlikely to contain "filth." (Does the word
"dumbass" count as filth?)
>Lock your trailer door. Breed with that little sister of yours, and carry on a
>fine family tradition....as this is obviously been going on for sometime in your
>family.  Please..just say no to inbreeding...for God's sake look in the mirror
>and honestly ask yourself if you want this to continue....
Does this count as filth?
Thank you, and have a nice day,
JeffMo
p.s. You will also note that I am *not* defending the abusive nature
of the original post, which I feel was somewhat out of line.

In a previous article, azb@aber.ac.uk (A R BREEN) says:
it's nice to read such an even-handed professional!...  now,
why is a bow-shock not to be associated with a power-source, even if
only spaceship-rowing galley slaves?
	I think that doc.Brown has honored his word & split the scene,
though.
>Unless this posting concerns the solar wind all opinions are purely personal
-- 
There is no dimension without time.  --RBF (Synergetics, 527.01)
(Brian Hutchings -- ba137@lafn.org)

Henry,
You may not know the danger you are in! Folks in the oil-patch have a
deep, rich, and extensive jargon that may take years to learn and
appreciate.
I can recommend two sourcebooks:
"A Primer of Oilwell Drilling" by Ron Baker, published, I think, by the
Petroleum Extension Service, University of Texas at Austin. May be out of
print, but should be available on interlibrary loan.
and the "D&D; Oil Abbreviator" published by PPC Books, Tulsa, Oklahoma, a
compilation of oil-patch terms and their abbreviations, compiled by the 
Association of Desk and Derrick Clubs
Or, visit the oil patch, go to a bar, and offer to buy beer in exchange
for education on drilling terms. Don't try to find the key to the
v-door...
Regards,
Dave Murchison
former mudlogger, exploration geologist, and oilfield trash

> schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) wrote:
> >Keep in mind that the material which followed was speculation and not
> >actual information about comets. Let the novice beware!
> 
> Robert, do not be put off by Richard's pathetic replies.  He does this
> to everyone who has an original thought as he clearly has never had one
> himself and feels threatened by them.  
> 
> I find your hypothesis interesting.
Thank you for commenting.  Don't worry, though, about Richard: I have a
fairly thick hide.  I would like to point out that any students of natural
systems wishing to pursue the "Asteroids are CME-Fried Comets" hypothesis
through questions or comments should probably keep within the main post and
its thread.  I will respond to questions as best as I can off the top of my
head, so to speak, and questions that I cannot respond to in this manner
will be passed on to others who may be able to provide a response.  The
four co-authors of the theory believe that it will become the "standard
model" for understanding evolutionary change within the Solar System within
the next decade, so there are literally thousands of different aspects to
its workings.
My principal thesis, the "Theory of Land and Life" can be found on the
sci.geo.geology, and talk.origins boards.
Robert D. Brown, M.D.
Pelorus Research Laboratory

My response to this post will soon be found on the "Theory of Land and
Life" panel, sci.geo.geology newsgroup
RDB

try these references for a start
Ashby, M.F., et al., 1979, Fracture mechanism maps for F.C.C. metals and 
alloys, Acta Metallurgia, 699-729
Stocker, R. L., and M. F. Ashby, On rheology of the upper mantle, 1973,
Reviews of GEophysics and Space Physics, 11, 391-426
Kranz, R. L., and C. H. Scholz, 1977, Critical dilatant volume of rocks 
at the onset of tertiary creep, Journal of Geophysical Research, 82, 
4893-4898
reference books:
Jaeger, J. C., and N.G.W. Cook, 1979, Fundamentals of ROck Mechanics, 
Chapman and Hall, London
Paterson, M. S., 1978, Experimental rock deformation - the brittler 
field, Springer, Berlin
good hunting,
Dave Borns
Geophysics Department 
Sanida National Laboratories

In article <51ms31$1s1@news.tuwien.ac.at>
avl@fsmat.htu.tuwien.ac.at (Andreas Leitgeb) writes:
> all i wanted to say is, that AP's argument (that jesus _would_ 
> have told us physical theorems, instead of rambling about peace)
> was nonsense, and neither disproved (nor proved) the divinity 
> of jesus. 
>   There are lots of "proofs", that go like this: "A man can be 
> born at two places at one time simultaneously, Nazareth and 
> Bethlehem. there was a god, this god would ... would permit 
> immaculate conception against all biological laws known to us, 
> and later change his mind and have his son bleed like a normal 
> human on the cross " ,  but these are simply logically wrong, 
> because they assume the lack of any other reasons for god to _not_do 
> this or that. The God of the Bible is trickier than tricky Nixon
> Indirect proofs only work , if all used assumptions 
> (except the one to be disproved) are already provable and proven !
>  I should know because I am Andreas Leitgeb, the third nephew of god.
  Good bible lesson, I should read your above out loud in Bible study
class.
Finishing it off with one of my favorite verses in the bible.
  "The only thing we have to fear is "faith in faith itself" " -- New
Testament, chapter 8, verse 13

Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium) wrote:
>If he , Jesus were a diety, then he could have forwarned humanity in a
>spectacular way. On the cross , instead of saying empty words he could
>have shouted   F = MA
>  or better yet the Schroedinger Equation
>  or something like e^(i x pi) = -1
> Why is the Bible utterly deplete of the best wisdom that humanity
>has-- science or physics?  
At the risk of showing both my ingnorance and with being too closley
associated with some of the rest of Archie's message, this is a great
point; I've never come across it before.  Excellent.

frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank R. Borger) wrote:
>In article <51i6ct$7of@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, 
>Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu says...
>>
>>  If Jesus's message was to get believers, surely , he could have
>>persuaded the whole world by broadcasting or made to be broadcast some
>>science that was 2 millenium ahead of his time. But no. There are only
>>secondary accounts of Jesus performing questionable miracles.
>>
>	That's because he was a physicist and spent all his time studying
>	CROSS PRODUCTS. ;-}
Boo, boo, boo.

In article <51p442$i93@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com>, simon.kiteley@gecm.com writes:
>meron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <32349509.5740@netrover.com>, Gaetan Jobin  writes:
>>>Michael W. Fisher wrote:
>>>First : In so-called pre-technologicial societies they had very high
>>>mortality rate for babies. As in our society we are just on the verge of
>>>trying to keep the placentas alive. So the low age death is not a true
>>>mesure at all. In fact in the "old" times people lived just as long as
>>>we do. 
>>No, not quite.  There were individuals who reached an advanced age, 
>>but these were rather exceptions.  Among the rural population (which 
>>was the vast majority) very few people reached past 50.
>I feel I must support the first statment above, I have also seen, on TV,
>results to surveys that say in the since records began that the average age
>for people who die from natural causes, has stayed rougthly the same.
>
>If you don't get run over or catch AIDs, resistant flu, etc you are
>going to live as long as 50 years ago.
Two points:
1) Don't compare with 50 years ago (human civilization is a bit older 
than this), compare with 200 or 500 years ago.
2) If by "dying of natural causes" you mean dying of old age, not 
accident, infectious disease or just plain starvation, then I agree 
with you.  However, only a small minority of people reached this 
point.  The majority succumbed to one of the things from the list 
above.  The ones who managed to avoid the usual perils of past life 
were mostly from the privileged classes, spending their life on (in 
the words of Terry Pratchett) "indoors work without heavy lifting".  
Since they were also the ones for whom records were kept (nobody 
bothered with recording deaths of serfs) it is easy to get a skewed 
picture if you're not careful.
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"

In article <51o7q4$gro@phunn1.sbphrd.com>,
Frank_Hollis-1@sbphrd.com.see-sig (Triple Quadrophenic) wrote:
: In article <323ED873.1796@oro.net>, happypcs@oro.net (RIchard Adams) says...
: >Oliver Seeler wrote:
: >> 
: >> Dick waves his latest scheme:
: >> 
: >> >ATTENTION:
: >> 
: >> >* Here's your chance to make a difference.
: >> 
: >> >* All survey respondees will be held private.
: >> 
: >> [snip]
: >> 
: >> This meaningless "survey" is a fraud from any scientific viewpoint.
: >> Participation in it may have a result you do not intend.  Ignore it.
: >> We should start treating dick like any other spammer.
: >
: >The survey gives you the opportunity to cast a vote
: >and stop the proposal by a simple e-mail message.
: 
: 
: 
: Dick,
: 
: 
: So far I have seen dozens of posts complaining about this idea and not a 
: single one in favour of it. As far as I'm concerned that's a good enough 
: indicator as to how s.g.g and s.g.e readers feel about it.
: 
: Now why don't you go somewhere else and see if theres another group you can 
: try to take over. Or just learn how do set up your own, hows about alt.dick?
: 
Mr. Hollis,
While you may disagree with him, Mr. Adams does have just as much right as
you to post here. Try not to fall into the same category of behavior
you're ascribing to him.
That said, at this point, I personally think that it is time to just drop
the pre-RFD as well.
I would not be adverse to seeing one properly done by someone with some
background in newsgroup administration.
I've always been of the opinion that moderated groups should only be
proposed to be implimented by those with a reasonable expectation of being
able to accomplish the moderation. And my belief is that Mr. Adams does
not currently have that expertise, nor has he lined up someone (at least
as far as anyone has been told) to create it for him.
IMO, the dividing line, if the groups were to be moderated, would be
automoderation with everyone starting at a blank slate. The line for
moderation could be drawn at non-earthquake related issues (a prediction
dealing entirely with storms or plane crashes or [something unspecified]
"is going to happen" is entirely irrelevant to the earthquake groups, for
instance) and blatant SPAM (MMF, etc.) in the earthquake newsgroups.
Those who then commonly abuse the charters of the affected groups would
then be put on notice that their actions will lead to hand-moderation
(with concommitant delay) and if repeated thereafter, refusal of all posts
from the poster.
This is a system where those creating the problems are called to
responsibility for their abuses. Responsibility becomes the delimiter that
determines how the poster is treated. Abuse earns delay or removal from
the group by the abuser by his/her OWN actions.
That is the scheme that has tended to work in several successful currently
existing moderated groups (even those with a hundreds of posts a day -
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, for example, which averages between
150-250 posts a day with very little delay in post approval). 
But it does require someone with expertise be willing to stand to do the
work at creating the system. That should be the first criteria considered.
The question of whether moderation as a single concept is acceptable to
EVERYONE is not, in and of itself, relevant. There are always those that
will object to moderation on the grounds of censorship, without
recognizing that there are times when *moderation* may be legitimately
called for. That is what the RFD discussion & CFV periods are for: to
determine if the groups are justified in the opinions of the USENET
knowledgable and the affected newsgroups' readers.
-- 
 David A. Stinson   Web Page: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html 
Product Integration Work E-Mail      : daves@procom.com
     Engineer       Personal E-Mail  : dstinson@ix.netcom.com   or
Procom Technology                      dastinson@aol.com
**** OPINIONS ABOVE ARE THOSE OF D.STINSON, AND NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF PROCOM TECHNOLOGY ****

S Downs wrote:
> 
> I'm a non-geologist doing some research on karst, and I'm curious about
> some information and terminology I've run across. Perhaps someone here
> would be kind enough to clarify.
> 
> Q: Can any type of limestone form karst terrain, or only specific types
> of limestone? I understand the limestone must be both permeable and
> porous.
> 
As I understand it, KARST is formed from any soluble rock type.  Thus
gypsum and salt can form KARST terrains too.
> Thanks for your help. E-mail me directly if possible; the postings here
> seem to be way-off-topic for geology :(
> 
> Sandy 
I agree but unless those of us interesed in geology continue to post,
this group will be taken over completely by the fools.
Roberto Anaya

PRESS RELEASE
Minexpo International ’96, Las Vegas, September 9, 1996
CAMESE releases new Compendium of Mining Suppliers
Jon G. Baird, Managing Director of CAMESE - The Canadian Association of 
Mining Equipment and Services, is pleased to announce the immediate 
availability of the CAMESE Compendium of Canadian Mining Suppliers. This 
75 page book contains editorial articles about the dynamic, 
technologically-advanced, environmentally-sound, $23 billion Canadian 
mining industry at home and abroad and about the suppliers that help keep 
Canadian mines among the most efficient in the world. Profiles of 156 of 
Canada’s prime suppliers of mining equipment and services are included, 
as well as an index to permit easy cross referencing for readers 
searching for sources of particular goods or services. The first of an 
annual series, the project to produce 20,000 copies of the Compendium was 
financed entirely by participating members of the association, perhaps 
the first time such a national, sectoral marketing effort has been 
undertaken in Canada without direct government support. The Compendium 
will be distributed to mining decision makers by mail and at 
international mining trade shows, beginning with Minexpo’96.
CAMESE is a non-sales trade association with over 160 corporate members 
existing to help Canadian mining suppliers to export to world mining 
markets, and to assist foreign buyers, dealers and others in finding 
suitable Canadian business partners in the mining supply sector.
Anyone wishing a copy of the Compendium should contact CAMESE at 101 - 
345 Renfrew Drive, Markham, Ontario, Canada, L3R 9S9, tel: 905-513-0046, 
fax: 905-513-1834, E-mail: 103214.545@compuserve.com. 
- 30 -
-- 
Canadian Association of Mining Equipment and Services for Export
101-345 Renfrew Drive, Markham, Ontario, L3R 9S9, Canada
tel: 905-513-0046 fax: 905-513-1834  email: 103214.545@compuserve.com
http://www.info-mine.com/camese/

RICHTER SAID  -- .
.
Predictions based on positions of the sun and moon have to be regarded 
a trifle more
seriously, since there is evidence that tidal forces may occasionally 
act as triggers for
earthquakes otherwise on the point of taking place; in this way the 
date and hours of
occurrence  ( occurrence -two r's) may show a  slight statistical 
correlation with the
tides.
- Proof of many of my well documented predictions and dates are to be 
found there -
http://www.salemctr.com/newage.html - try it .
This theory is at an early stage and is  EXPERIMENTAL only.
Next window is for Sept. 22nd, 1996- A window is operational 1200 
hours 
centering the given date and sometimes a few hours before and after 
the window - 
Thus 1200 Sept.21st through 1200 hours Sept. 23rd - UTC is used.  This 
theory is not 
"yet" recognized by the scientific community or USGS and indicate only 
the possibility
for UNUSUAL and HIGH seismic activity.  Previous windows (see sample 
later on) have
accurately pin pointed earthquakes of a minimum of 6.0 and well above 
6.5.  " As above
as below", everything is interconnected.  The windows do not stop at 
earthquakes (HIGH)
probability/intensity but include various ways of  mother nature 
expressing herself
through destructive weather pattern.  ( Edouard etc., tornadoes/floods 
etc.).
This negative celestial energy (cyclonic reasonance) also affects 
sophisticated electronics
equipments (planes/ boats/ trains/cars/ airport traffic control 
towers, generators/
electronics) thus the high possibility to experience 
failures/accidents leading to a lost of
general power as experienced with both "state blackouts" that struck 
inside my windows.  
Those windows do also affects "physical" computers (viruses) and 
(spiritual) computer
(brain) which is reacting with the subtle but real outside "stimuli". 
 Thus under those
windows, the worse elements of our society  will respond and act out 
(robotic
expressions) the will of the cosmos "Rodney King dilemma, Los Angeles 
riots etc.
producing dramatic news with the police force".
A Supernova month is unfolding.  Weeks before January 1996 I 
posted my predictions for a Supernova window.Then, a few weeks later, 
as anticipated "A record breaking weather development" hit New York 
early January
1996- September 1996 will be one of the worst month in 1996 in terms 
of weather
development and natural disasters. 
On the following windows, expect the weather to go seriously out of 
hand. The upcoming nefarious energy will produce chain reaction 
accidents, oil spill, sea accidents. On certain given dates expect 
volcanoes 
eruption, tornadoes, floadings and large earthquakes.  This energy 
will certainly affect airports electronics and thousands of travelers 
will be stucked "cancelation flights". Black out, lost of power and 
general communication is very high on my windows. If NASA decide to 
launch the shuttle, they are on for serious electronics failures and 
trouble then costly cancellations. A shuttle exploded a few years ago 
and many expansive satelites were lost during these "Supernova" 
windows. 
Here is the dates and  please PRINT THEM!
September 2nd - 
September 11th -
September 17th-
September 29th-
The next destructive Supernova window is for December 1996. (just 
commemorate this
post, better print it!)
To all - A Supernova month is in action, thus be ready for a very 
destructive celestial energy affecting the weather, producing 
hurricanes
tornadoes and very large quakes on the given dates. 
private@aol.com ()
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Dr Turi's predictions
Date: 10 Sep 1996 23:05:59 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Well, today is 9/11 in Japan........Tokyo has a 6.6 earthquake, 
centered in the
Pacific.....with a Tsunanmi warning.  You were at least on the right 
side of the world on
this.  
------------------------------
On the window of Sept.17th, 1996 "as predicted!"
 Tornadoes strike hurricane-slammed North Carolina - September 17, 
1996 -  KINSTON,
North Carolina  -- Add tornadoes to the  weather problems of eastern 
North Carolina.
Two weeks after Hurricane Fran thrashed the area with torrential rains 
and high winds, at
least three damaging twisters spun through communities that were still 
reeling from
floods. 
 September 17, 1996 -  Thunderstorms in East, snow in Utah - Rain 
spread across much
of the East Coast states on Tuesday Sept. 17th, and  tornadoes hit 
beleaguered North
Carolina. In the West, cold air brought snow to the mountains of Utah. 
SAMPLE OF SUPERNOVA PREDICTION POSTED JANUARY 1996 ON THE
WWW
Full proofs of 1996/1997 Universal Predictions and dates are to be 
found at
http://www.salemctr.com/newage.html
On September  22 nd, 1996 many will be  surprised by big explosions 
and nature's
decastating forces - (quakes/volcanoe).
On September 29th  a very destructive energy will take many lives as 
news of drama and
death will plague the the media. Bad news from the ocean/oil.
I would like to thanks all the people on this group for their 
participation.
Respectfully to all
Dr. Turi

In article <51jmnr$845@frazier.backbone.ou.edu>,
lakshman@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Valliappa Lakshmanan) wrote:
> Why is Japan in the year 8? Do they count centuries as years? Anyone
> care to explain? (although this has nothing to do with
> sci.image.processing, it is interesting enough ... :)
They begin a new calendar count everytime a new ruler steps onto the
throne. It was 8 (?) years ago the present Emporer was crowned.
        James

The following comments from S Krueger (skrueger@arco.com) were originally
posted on a different thread and have been moved to this location for the
sake of continuity.  The original post from S. Krueger is here, my response
follows.
In article <01bba3f6$c7d18520$446860cc@dial.inetnebr.com> Robert D.
Brown, pelorus@ltec.net writes:
>The task of removing a starched tablecloth from
>> under a table full of dishes by pushing on the cloth is
>> comparable in difficulty to the task of explaining how to
>> abruptly subduct a large amount of oceanic lithosphere
>> without crumpling it.
>
>Now, place several miles of seawater over the tablecloth/oceanic crust and
>hit it with the abrupt force of an asteroid moving 7-30 km/sec.  That will
>shear any solid links between the undersurface of the basalt and the rock
>forming the Moho.  Lastly, have water move radially away from the impact
>site, creating frictional forces that cause the plate to move in the same
>direction.  The oceanic crust will subduct under the continental plates
>surrounding the oceanic basin, leaving major portions of the oceanic crust
>and its attached seafloor sediments "intact", particularly as the distance
>from the impact site extends into the thousands of kilometers.  These
>effects, carried out over the span of time immediately following an
OCEANIC
>impact:
>
>(1) Generate mountains (fractures) on the atmospheric surfaces of the
>continental plates where the vectorial shock vector punches up from below;
>
>(2) Deposit huge sedimentary strata on the continental structures; and
>
>(3) Cause an ice age because of the blasting of vaporized (e.g.
>"salt-free") seawater into Earth's cold stratosphere.  The salt comes down
>first (please think of Gaussian distributions), followed by the water,
>which rains down as snow and ice.
>
>
>RDB
Robert,
It's posters like you who make me wish my reader had kill files. Your
repeated posts on "impact orogeny" are just plain daft and your theory of
a K/T boundary impact creating Hawaii and the circum-Pacific mountain
ranges is so goofy that any 1st year geology student could probably
refute it with several lines of evidence. 
Do these comments remind anyone of the palentological/stratigraphic
community's initial reaction the Alvarez hypothesis when it first came out?
 RDB 
As for the post above, it compounds your previous idiocy with even
greater idiocy. For example:
Fortunately, somewhere between chance and mystery lies imagination, the
only thing that protects our freedom, despite the fact that people keep
trying to reduce it or kill it off altogether.
Luis Buñuel (1900–1983), Spanish filmmaker. My Last Sigh, ch. 15 (1983),
from his autobiography.
Inserted by RDB
- There is no evidence for an impact in the middle of the Pacific at the
K/T boundary. 
How about an iridium-enriched volcano (world's largest volcano) positioned
in the center of a circum-global impact crater rim?  Tell me, S. Krueger,
how did plate tectonic motions create the Rocky Mountains?  How did plate
motions result in a circle of mountains on Earth's surface that form a near
perfect circle, through which one can pass a single plane?  RDB
There are numerous ODP and DSDP holes drilled around both
the current position of Hawaii and its paleo-position at 65 Ma, 
Tell me, what are the co-ordinates for these holes to which you refer?  RDB
and in
all of these holes there is a conformable section of Tertiary strata
overlying Cretaceous through Jurassic strata. 
As it should be according to the model being proposed.  Read the posting
more carefully.  RDB
No deformational event
occurred in the Pacific at that time. The pattern of magnetic stripes on
the seafloor has been mapped in detail and shows no evidence for
disruption since the age of the oldest crust, which is more than 200 Ma
in age.
Please consult: D.P. Elston and G.S. Gromme, 1984, Eos, v. 65(45), GP21-08,
Transactions of the American Geophysics Union.  Please explain their
paleomagnetic data (derived from all continents rimming the Pacific) using
your understandings?  My model explains it quite nicely.  RDB
- The mechanical behavior of materials is a function of the rate at which
deformation occurs. In cases of rapid deformation (minutes versus
millions of years) geologic materials shatter like glass, rather than
behaving in the plate-like fashion you describe. 
You seem to be missing the point, SKrueger.  The basaltic crust of the
ocean floor isn't "shattered" in the model and is moved by the relatively
"isometric" force of water rushing across its surface.  RDB
Even if you could
suddenly shove hundreds of miles of oceanic crust beneath the continental
margins, there should be a massive isostatic uplift event, but no such
event is evident in the geological record. 
Are you familiar with the Nazca Plate and its position vis-à-vis South
America?  The Andes strike me as an "uplift" of major proportions.  RDB
 The K/T boundary age is no
more unusual in the record of deformation of the circum-Pacific mountains
than any other date in the last billion years or so. T suggest an earth
shattering reorganization of the Pacific basin at that time defies all
basic field data.
No, it explains this data.  It transforms historically older
interpretations, which have this fairy-tale impression that Earth hasn't
been hit by the large asteroids that exist in space.  RDB
- Impact craters demonstrate that the bulk of the kinetic energy of an
impactor is converted to heat, and the forces which result from the
impact are predominantly directed upwards, not outwards. 
Pure, unadulterated idiocy on your part, SKrueger.  RDB
Basic physics
should tell you that the kinds of energy required to lift great slabs of
oceanic crust and displace them hundreds of kilometers laterally are
simply beyond the range of likely impact energy. 
Do you know how many 100 km asteroids have been counted?  Do you know what
percent of the large rocks orbiting the Sun have been catalogued to date? 
Please, SKrueger, do a simple calculation of the kinetic energy of a 100 km
diameter sphere of iron hitting Earth at 25 km/sec.  Then tell me there are
not sufficiently large impactors "out there".  I call this form of
ignorance "geological whistling in the dark".  RDB
That amount of impact
energy would, instead, create an enormous hole in the upper mantle, an
event for which there is no evidence.
Surface defects rapidly cover over.  The major impact energy is released at
depths beginning about 25 km down.  RDB
- You argue that the event should "deposit huge sedimentary strata on the
continental structures". It didn't. Look at any good cross section
through any of the circum-Pacific mountain ranges, and their associated
flanking basins, and you will see that there is no sudden increase in
tectonic activity or sedimentation at the K/T boundary.
Look at the distribution of dinosaurs remains and the types of deposits in
which they are found.  All are "outside the rim".  You seem to keep
neglecting those mountains. RDB
- You state that the K/T event should "cause an ice age because of the
blasting of vaporized seawater into Earth's cold stratosphere". It
didn't. There is no record of a K/T boundary glaciation. 
Actually, the heat of the mountain formation process may have prevented a
glaciation after the Hawaii-forming impact.  Smaller oceanic impacts,
however, where orogeny does not occur, do produce glaciations as their
principal planetary consequence (besides huge tsunamis).   There is an
entire range of impactor sizes, velocities, compositions.  RDB
You obviously haven't got even a rudimententary familiarity with the most
basic geologic data which underpins modern geologic theory. In your posts
you repeatedly ask your readers to discard radiometric age dating, basic
structural geology of mountain belts, the entire paleontological record
(which agrees with radiometric methods), basic rock mechanics, the
paleomagnetic record of ocean floor anomalies, plate tectonics (you
refuse to accept that the continents have a wander history prior to
Pangaea), and a host of other basic data which I will not waste time
itemizing. 
Please give it up and crawl back under the rock you came out from under
so that the rest of us, many of whom do actually have a basic
understanding of the available geologic data, can get back to discussing
geology.
Thank you for your insightful ignorance of the cosmos.  RDB
*******************************************************************
* S Krueger (skrueger@arco.com)          *                        *
* This message is personal and does not  *   This Sace For Rent   *
* reflect the opinions of my employer    *                        *
*******************************************************************

>newsgroups under the post entitled "Theory of Land and Life".  This
>newsgroup chose to censure further discussions of this model of planetary
>formation.
Translation: it would not let errors go unchallenged.

Listed below is the program for the 1996 GCSSEPM Research Conference. You
can register via the web at http://www.gcssepm.org
STRATIGRAPHIC ANALYSIS USING ADVANCED GEOPHYSICAL, WIRELINE AND BOREHOLE
TECHNOLOGY FOR PETROLEUM EXPLORATION AND PRODUCTION
1996 GCSSEPM RESEARCH CONFERENCE
December 8th-11th, Adams Mark Hotel , Houston Texas
Program Chairmen 
 Dr. Jory A. Pacht Seis Strat Services, Inc. and Dr. Robert Sheriff,
University of Houston
 Program Advisory Committee
		Dr. John Beitzel , Consultant
		Mr. Tom Bergeon, Chevron USA
		Dr. Joe Davis, Davis Exploration
		Mr. Don Herron, BP Exploration
		Mr. Richard Johnson, Pennzoil
		Dr. Thomas Mazza, Presidio Oil Company
	Mr. Erik Mason; Shell Oil Company 
	Dr. Barbara Radovich, Texaco Oil Co
	Dr. Rashel Rosen  Excalibur Consulting 
	Mr. David Scolman PG&E;
	Dr. Laird Thompson, Mobil Oil Co
	Dr. Paul Weimer, University of Colorado
PROGRAM SCHEDULE
Monday December 9th
7:45 --8:00 - Opening Remarks 
8:00 - 8:30 -   Neidell, Norman S., N.S. Neidell & Associates, Keynote,
Integrating Seismic Technology with Geology - The Future for Hydrocarbons
Reservoir Identification and Definition
Sequence Stratigraphic and Sedimentologic Analysis Using 3D seismic data -
Program Chairmen
 Joseph R. Davis and David Scolman
8:30 -9:00 - Roberts, Michael T., and Compani, Behtaz, Pennzoil
Exploration and Production Company, Miocene Example of a Meandering
Submarine Channel-levee Systems from 3-D Seismic Reflection Data, Gulf of
Mexico Basin
9:00 -9:30 - Posamentier, Henry W., Geoffrey A. Dorn, Mary J. Cole,
Charles W. Beierle, Steven P. Ross, and Maurice A. Cucci; ARCO Exploration
and Production Technology, Imaging Elements of Depositional Systems with
3-D Seismic Data; an Example from the North Sea, UK
9:30 -10:00 - Armentrout, John M. Steve J. Malecek, Vinod R. Mathur, Gary
L. Neuder and Gerry M. Ragan, Mobil Oil Corporation, Intraslope Basin
Reservoirs Deposited by Gravity-driven Processes:  Ship Shoal and Ewing
Banks Areas, Offshore Louisiana
10:00 -10:30 -  Coffee Break and discussion
10:30 -11:00 - Suter, John, Ken Abdulah. Patty Travis, Peter Glagola and
Jim Young, Conoco; and David Watso  and William Finley, Subsurface
Consultants and Associates, Inc., An Integrated Seismic and Well-Log
Sequence Stratigraphic Study over 32 Grand Isle/West Delta OCS blocks
11:00 -11:30 - Radovich, Barbara and Burnet Oliveros, Texaco, 3D Seismic
Interpretation and Non-Marine Depositional Processes at the Gorgon Gas
Field, NW Shelf Australia
11:30 - 12:00 - Hall, David J., and Bruce E. Bowen, Excalibur
Interpretation Company, Applications of 3D Seismic Volume Attribute
Analysis to Mapping Facies in Depositional Systems Tracts
12:00 -1:30 - Lunch and Poster Sessions
Sequence Stratigraphic and Sedimentologic Analysis Using 3D seismic data
II - Program Chairman - Tom Mazza and Richard Johnson
1:30 -2:00 - Lopez, J.A., N.L. Haskell, S.E. Nissen, and M.S. Bahorich;
Amoco Production Co., 3-D Seismic Coherency and the Imaging of
Sedimentological Features
2:00 -2:30 - Horkowitz, Kathleen O., Resource Analysts, Houston, TX; and
David R. Davis, Sanchez-O'Brien Oil and Gas Corporation, Seismic
Delineation of Thin Sandstone Reservoirs in Shale-Rich Sequences using
Instantaneous Frequency and Reflection Amplitude, Texas Gulf Coast
2:30 -3:00  - Hardage, B.A., D.L. Carr, J.L. Simmons, Jr.; University of
Texas at Austin,  Combining Sequence Stratigraphy with 3-D Seismic Imaging
in Low-accommodation Basins
3:00 -3:30 Coffee Break and Discussion
3:30 -4:00  - Varnai, Peter and Paul Weimer University of Colorado,
Sub-regional 3D Seismic Interpretation of Plio-Pleistocene Turbidite
Systems, Central Green Canyon, Gulf of Mexico
4:00 -4:30 - Williamson, Mark, John Shimeld, Kevin Coflin and David Prior,
Geological Survey of Canada (Atlantic), A Buried Paleogene Submarine
Canyon System Imaged from 3-D Seismic from the Jeanne D'Arc Basin,
Offshore Newfoundland
4:30 -5:00  Flemings, Peter B., A.R. Hoover, T. Burkhart, and S.E. N
elson, Penn State University, The EI-330 LF Sand: Case Study of Amplitudes
in Drained Pay 
5:00 -5:30 - Bahorich, M, Lynn Peyton, Vassiliou, Anthony A., Richard L.
Chambers and Greg A. Partyka, and Mike Ross Amoco Exploration & Production
Technology Group, The Use of Seismic Attributes for Geostatistical
Integrated Reservoir Descriptions and Risk Analysis
Tuesday December 10th
AVO - New Ideas and Techniques - Program Chairmen - Tom Bergeron and Don
Herron
8:00 -  8:30 - Castagna, John P., HARC, Keynote, AVO Analysis: Tutorial
and Review 	
8:30 -9:00 -  DiSiena, James, Fred Hilterman and Connie VanSchuyer;
Geophysical Development Corporation, Calibration of Seismic Response for
3-D AVO  analysis 
9:00 -9:30 - Ross, Christopher P. and Daniel L. Kinman, Oryx Energy
Company, Non-Bright Spot AVO: Two Examples
9:30 -10:00 - Sbar, Marc, BP Exploration,  AVO Analysis in the Middle
Miocene, Mississippi Canyon, Gulf of Mexico:  Exploration Risk Reduction
for Hydrocarbons and Reservoir
10:00 -10:30 - Coffee Break and Discussion
10:30 -11:00 - Hall, David J., Excalibur Interpretation Co. John Adamick,
TGS-Calibre Geophysical Co.; John DeWildt and Joe Erickson Spectrum
Geophysical Services, Inc., Applications of Amplitude vs. Offset as an
Exploration Tool in the Louisiana Shelf
11:00 -11:30 - Rollins, Francis O. and Charles M. Skidmore, Amoco 
Production Co., 3D AVO as a Primary Tool for Reservoir Characterization in
the Deep Water Gulf of Mexico
11:30 -12:00 - Lindsay, Richard O., Diamond Geoscience Research Corp.,
Tulsa, OK; and Davis W. Ratcliff, Diamond Geophysical Service Corp.,
Subsalt AVO
12:00 -1:30 Lunch and Poster Sessions
Use of FMS and FMI Tools for Stratigraphic Analysis 
Program Chairmen - Laird Thompson and Barbara Radovich
1:30 -2:00 - Hurley, Neil F., Colorado School of Mines, Parasequence-scale
Stratigraphic Correlations in Deep-marine Sediments using Borehole Images
2:00 - 2:30 - Crabaugh, Mary, Institute for Energy Research, Univ. of
Wyoming,; and Neil Hurley, Marathon Oil Co., Interpreting Eolian Reservoir
Architecture Using FMI and FMS Logs
2:30 -3:00 - Sovich, Jerry, ARCO Exploration & Production, A Thin Bed
Model for the Kuparuk "A" Sand, Field, North Kuparuk River North Slope,
Alaska 
3:00 -3:30 - Coffee Break and Discussion
3:30 -4:00 - Evans, L.W., Amoco Corp.,T.L. Dunn, Institute for Energy
Research Univ. of Wyoming, and D. Thorn, Schlumberger  Formation
Micro-imager, Microscanner and Core Characterization of Natural Fractures
in a Horizontal Well in the Upper Almond Bar Sand, Echo Springs Field,
Wyoming 
4:00 -4:30 - Thompson, Laird B., and J.W. Snedden  Mobil E & P Technical
Center,  Oso Geology and Reservoir Description of 1-Y1 Using FMS and
Dipmeter, offshore Nigeria
Innovative Tools and Techniques - Application to Exploration and
Production - Program Chairmen - John Beitzel and Eric Mason 
4:30 -5:00 - Carter, Melvin D., Velocity Analysts, Inc., Depth Conversion
Monitoring Using a Normalized Velocity Lithology Correlation
 5:00 -5:30 - O'Neill, B.J., A.E.  Duvernay Shell Offshore, Inc. and R.
George, Total Biostratigraphic Services, Inc., Paleontology: Still a
Critical Stratigraphic Borehole Tool in Gulf of Mexico Exploration and
Exploitation
Wednesday December 11th
Innovative Tools and Techniques - Application to Exploration and
Production - Continued  Program Chairmen - John Beitzel and Eric Mason  
8:00 -8:30 - Hopkins, John F., and Timothy R. Carr, Kansas Geological
Survey, Pseudo-seismic Transforms of Wireline Logs:  A Seismic Approach to
Petrophysical Sequence Stratigraphy
 8:30 - 9:00 - Bohling, Geoffrey C., John H. Doveton, and W. Lynn Watney,;
Kansas Geological Survey, Systematic Identification of Sequence
Stratigraphic Units from Wireline Logs 
9:00 9:30 - Jol, Harry M., Dept. of Geography, Simon Fraser University,
Smith, Derald G. and Meyers, Richard A., Dept. of Geography; and Lawton,
D.C., Dept. of Geology and Geophysics, University of Calgary, Ground
Penetrating Radar: High Resolution Stratigraphic Analysis of Coastal and
Fluvial Environments
Integrated studies of hydrocarbon reservoirs - Program Chairmen -  Paul
Weimer and Robert Sheriff
9:30 -10:00 - Latimer, Rebecca and Paul van Riel, Jason Geosystems,
Integrated Seismic Reservoir Characterization and Modeling: A Gulf of
Mexico 3D Case History
10:00 -10:30 Coffee Break and Discussion
10:30- 11:00 Kristiansen, Pal, Olav Holberg,  and Dick Ireson Schlumberger
Geco-Prakla, Reservoir Characterization and Monitoring Using Seismic
Methods: A Flexible Multi-Disciplinary Approach
11:00 -11:30 - W.E. Sims, G.M. Tiller, R.C. Wattenburger, Freeman, J.J.,
J.C. Nieuwoudt,  Shell Development Co.; C.S. Lerche, M.J. Mahaffie, Shell
Offshore Incorporated, From Seismic to Reservoir Model:  An Integrated
Study
11:30 -12:00 - Aminzadeh, Fred, Unocal, Keynote,  Future Geophysical
Technology Trends
12:00 -12:30 Conference Summary

> Both ferromagnetism and the chemical affinities that make
> siderophile elements go together are properties that are
> not active when the elements are in the form of isolated
> ions being sorted by a magnetic field in space.
> 
> The "mass spectrometer" effect  should sort by mass.  For
> example, it should sort lithophile heavy elemnts along
> with the siderophiles.  Does your theory explain why this
> doesn't seem to have happened?
What I meant by my reference to the Gaussian distributions is that we are
not dealing with a system that is 100% ionized.  As you have previously
noted, the impact associated with lunar genesis involved 95% bulk motion of
planetary materials that were not completely vaporized into individual
ions.  This includes atomic clusters, ultra-fine ion complexes and
ligand-pairs/groups.  Every atomic nucleus/isotope has a uniquely different
ionization temperature for every one of its electrons, but even these are
statistical phenomena that can be described by a Gaussian distribution.  
Only one element is treated in a unique manner by the supercomputer
simulations of lunar genesis, and that is iron.  Iron is treated in a
unique manner in the simulations because of its quantitative abundance in
planetary core structures.  The simulations basically consist of matrices
containing two different classes of point particles: iron points and "all
the other elements" points.  In these simulations one has to make certain
assumptions because A) we lack good equations of state for the various
elements, and B) we do not have sufficiently large computers to do
significantly more complex simulations.  
Only the human mind can, at this time, integrate across the periodic table.
 The answer to your question is: the plasma torus sorted all elements that
were too hot to gravitationally accrete within 24 hours.
Robert D. Brown, M.D.
Pelorus Research Laboratory

Robert, do not be put off by Richard's pathetic replies.  He does this
to everyone who has an original thought as he clearly has never had one
himself and feels threatened by them.  
I find your hypothesis interesting.
-- Ray Tomes -- rtomes@kcbbs.gen.nz -- Harmonics Theory --
http://www.vive.com/connect/universe/rt-home.htm

I am interested in clastic dikes as "macropores" providing hydraulic 
connection between saturated, relatively high hydraulic conductivity sand 
layers seperated by low hydraulic conductivity silty clay layers.
What conditions are favorable for the development of clastic dikes? 
Does anyone know of examples of what I describe? Any help would be 
appreciated.
John Monks

since "dear" AP has posted his misquotings to all these
newsgroups, i gotta post it to the same set of newsgroups,
so people, who happen to have read his posting know that 
what he quoted was not what i had written
Archimedes Plutonium (Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu) wrote:
as usual completely misquoting those he follows up to:
> >   There are lots of "proofs", that go like this: " ...
> > " ,  but these are simply logically wrong, 
> > because they assume the lack of any other reasons for god to _not_do 
> > this or that. The God of the Bible is trickier than tricky Nixon
 this piece of misquoting (above line) happens to have a point :-)
> > Indirect proofs only work , if all used assumptions 
> > (except the one to be disproved) are already provable and proven !
>   Good bible lesson, I should read your above out loud in Bible study
> class.
as long as you read my _original_ post, and not what you made out of it,
feel free to do it
> Finishing it off with one of my favorite verses in the bible.
>   "The only thing we have to fear is "faith in faith itself" " -- New
> Testament, chapter 8, verse 13
what does this have got to do with all that above ?
i only pointed out, that your argument ("a divine jesus _would_ have
babbled physical laws") was nonsense.  is there any "faith in faith" 
(or "faith" at all) involved with that ?

In a previous article, ba137@lafn.org (Brian Hutchings) says:
well, if doc.Brown has truly flown the coop of his peers,
I'd like to fill the gap he's left for bizarre hypothesizing, as
I have already hinted, if that's OK; unfortunately,
the Life part of his thesis did not address agriculture.
-- 
There is no dimension without time.  --RBF (Synergetics, 527.01)
(Brian Hutchings -- ba137@lafn.org)

In article <3238E6F8.2720@oro.net>, Richard Adams  writes:
[...]
>
>The majority of people now joining into the internet
>would prefer that some moderation reduce the level of
>off topic net wide spam, and the system proposed here
>is a good working system to do that.  Kill files are
>more useful to experienced users with particular modes
>of internet service, which is not the mode of typical
>user these days.
I have seen no evidence that a majority of people would like
moderation. Kill files are not difficult to use if you have an
intelligent newsreader. With xvnews if I decide never even to be aware
of postings from a certain individual it's only a few keystrokes.
Killing all posts sent to more than two newsgroups is only a little
harder. Don't impose moderation on people if your real complaint is
with brain dead news readers like Netscape or MS Explorer--tell those
software suppliers what you want and that you'll buy the first product
that has the right combination of features.
-- 
Gerard Fryer      
gerard@hawaii.edu        http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/~gerard/
Personal views only.