Newsgroup sci.geo.geology 36133

Directory

Subject: seismic refraction -- From: "TMS"
Subject: Re: Georef Database Access: any public servers? -- From: Jean-Daniel Bourgault
Subject: Re: Water down a sink.. which way does it run? -- From: j.c.buie@larc.nasa.gov (John Buie)
Subject: Where Can I Obtain Core Boxes?? -- From: "Keith littlejo@comm.net"
Subject: Philosophy of Science project -- From: cpshelle@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Cameron Shelley)
Subject: Postdoctoral position -- From: roberts17@llnl.gov (Jeffery Roberts)
Subject: Galileo Makes Close Pass by Callisto -- From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Re: Three Mars Missions to Launch in Late 1996 -- From: ragman@cybercom.net (Ragman)
Subject: Re: Evidence of Life Found in 2nd Mars Meteorite -- From: ladasky@leland.Stanford.EDU (John Ladasky)
Subject: Re: Evidence of Life Found in 2nd Mars Meteorite -- From: ladasky@leland.Stanford.EDU (John Ladasky)
Subject: Coriolis effect and creeper plants -- From: s1045099@iplabs.ins.gu.edu.au
Subject: Re: help-limestone mining -- From: Melanie Roberti
Subject: Re: Evidence of Life Found in 2nd Mars Meteorite -- From: Phillip Bigelow
Subject: Euler Deconvolution -- From: Joel Scott
Subject: Re: Asteroid Hit at Deadly Oblique Angle 65 Million Years Ago -- From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Attention mine owners or remote users of electricity -Off Grid Solar Thermal.. -- From: soltherm@chatlink.com (renewable )
Subject: Re: Earthlight -- From: Bob
Subject: A demonstration earthquake prediction program 11/05/96 -- From: edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com(EDG Research Projects)
Subject: Re: Question about pegmatite (??) -- From: Melanie Roberti
Subject: Re: Mars life: First a few things need explaining... -- From: cb422@torfree.net (Geoffrey Dow)
Subject: WARD'S Geology fax number -- From: ctiff@nimitz.saclay.cea.fr (TIFFREAU Christophe)
Subject: Re: Coriolis effect and creeper plants -- From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen)
Subject: Re: Coriolis effect and creeper plants -- From: Peter Halls
Subject: GPS location tagged field data capture in Geology -- From: manuel@fieldworker.com (Manuel Silva)
Subject: Re: Coriolis effect and creeper plants -- From: ft64@cityscape.co.uk
Subject: Re: Earthlight -- From: ft64@cityscape.co.uk
Subject: info on expanding earth claim sought -- From: edstrom@Poopsie.hmsc.orst.edu (John Edstrom)
Subject: Re: Question about pegmatite (??) -- From: "Jeffrey Moe"
Subject: Irc chat -- From: treasure@televar.com (Kemp LaMunyon)
Subject: Re: Milankovitch theory ? -- From: jnhead@suds.lpl.arizona.edu (James Head)
Subject: Re: Plate Tectonic Question -- From: harper@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (John Harper)
Subject: Re: Earthlight -- From: gerard@hawaii.edu (Gerard Fryer)
Subject: Looking for maps -- From: "greyhawk"
Subject: Re: Milankovitch theory ? -- From: Will.Howard@antcrc.utas.edu.au (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: info on expanding earth claim sought -- From: Mark Duffett
Subject: Today on Galileo - November 5, 1996 -- From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: post-doc, metamorphic petrology -- From: sainieid@badlands.NoDak.edu (Bernhardt Sainieidukat)
Subject: Re: Water down a sink.. which way does it run? -- From: derek@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Subject: Re: info on expanding earth claim sought -- From: ba137@lafn.org (Brian Hutchings)
Subject: HELP!! Questions for Clay Mineralogist -- From: "Bill"

Articles

Subject: seismic refraction
From: "TMS"
Date: 4 Nov 1996 19:56:31 GMT
I am searching for a program (public domain or shareware) to perform
shallow (30-50 ft) seismic refraction analyses.
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Subject: Re: Georef Database Access: any public servers?
From: Jean-Daniel Bourgault
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:27:17 GMT
Larry and Andrea Gagnon wrote:
> 
> I would like to know if there are any public access servers which
> allow Georef database access by the general public. Many University
> libraries have these CD-ROM databases, but only for student access.
> Anyone know how to get such access via the Internet?
> 
> Larry Gagnon, Senior Explorationist, Ampolex USA Inc, Denver USA
GEOREF is available through DIALOG (for a fee, of course) and from other 
CD-ROM suppliers (especially SilverPlatter) through the ERL technology 
(through a web page, that is, but for a fee, again). The cost of 
developing such a large database is pretty high. So... $$$.
-- 
Bonne journee / Have a nice day / Tschuss / Ila Likaa / Ciao / Hasta 
pronto / Przyjemnego dnia / Parev / Aloha / Salaam
Jean-Daniel Bourgault, bibliothécaire
INRS-Eau Documentation
Universite du Quebec
CP 7500 Sainte-Foy (Qc)
G1V 4C7 CANADA
Tel: 418-654-2663
Fax: 418-654-2600
Internet: bourgajd@inrs-eau.uquebec.ca
URL1: http://www.inrs-eau.uquebec.ca/ (INRS-Eau)
URL2: http://www.rse.uquebec.ca/ (Revue des Sciences de l'Eau / Journal 
of Water Science)
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Subject: Re: Water down a sink.. which way does it run?
From: j.c.buie@larc.nasa.gov (John Buie)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:47:54 -0400
Unless my physical oceanography professors didn't know what they were
talking about, the coriolis force has a negligible impact upon the
rotation of water draining out of a small basin. Check out these urls for
more info, or ask the nearest oceanography graduate student:
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.html
http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/drain.intro.fcgi
http://www.pa.msu.edu/sci_theatre/isj2.html
By the way, Michael Palin was suckered on "Pole to Pole." 
--
John Buie
j.c.buie@larc.nasa.gov
In article ,
lara@astro.as.utexas.edu (Lara E. Eakins) wrote:
> In article , haver@dartmouth.edu
> (Rick Haver) wrote:
> 
> > In article <01bbc3ad$535ec960$2f33f3ca@olivier>, "olivier fabre"
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > However we were stumped when we tried to figure out how water runs at the
> > equator. 
> > 
> > I've been told that water at the equator goes straight down and that as
> > you approach the equator the effect is lessened compared to higher
latitudes.
> > 
> 
> If you've ever seen "Pole to Pole" with Michael Palin, they demonstrated
> it when he reached the equator. They filled up a bucket and pulled the
> plug north of the line, and then repeated it south, and then again on
> the line. 
> 
> Lara
> 
> *********************************************************************
> Lara E. Eakins    Astronomy Department, University of Texas at Austin
> 
> "Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from
> this world to another" - Plato "The Republic"
> 
> http://porky.as.utexas.edu/lara/lara.html
> *********************************************************************
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Subject: Where Can I Obtain Core Boxes??
From: "Keith littlejo@comm.net"
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:50:32 -0600 (CST)
x-no-archive: yes
Subject: Where Can I Obtain Core Boxes??
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: sci.geo.petroleum@dispatch.demon.co.uk
sci.geo.geology@dispatch.demon.co.uk
Recently, I have gotten involved in a project that 
will involve the continuous coring of 4 to 5 holes, 
each being 100 to 150 feet deep, (from the surface).  
The material to be cored are unconsolidated to 
slightly over-consolidated sands, clayey sands, 
silty clays, etc.  (The work will be north of New 
Orleans, Louisiana on the Prairie Terrace.)
Normally, I have been just involved in "shallow," 
20 to 30 ft-deep holes.   In these holes, the cores were 
described and tested in the field and dumped while 
the hole was plugged with bentonite.  Thus, I am 
unaware where buy appropiate core boxes.
Where might I buy fiberboard core boxes for 3 and
3/8 inch cores.  I am looking for boxes tops, inserts, 
that take 10 feet of core per box.  What I need
are the names and addresses of the companies that
sell such boxes.  
Are these appropriate boxes for continuous cores of 
surficial sediments?  Neither hazardous chemicals,
pore fluids, nor other materials are involved.  
This involves just "plain old fashion dirt".
IMPORTANT NOTE
Please, send any e-mail replies to "littlejo@comm.net."
The automatic reply on newsreaders, Netscape,
and Explorer will send the reply to a incorrect address
because I am posting to newsgroups by e-mail.
Yours,
Keith Littleton
littlejo@comm.net
New Orleans, LA
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Subject: Philosophy of Science project
From: cpshelle@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Cameron Shelley)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:18:19 GMT
For a project in the philosophy of science, we are looking for World
Wide Web sites that are making important contributions to the conduct
of scientific research.  We are interested in sites that aid ongoing
scientific collaboration, rather than educational sites that simply
present the results of research.   We would be grateful for pointers
to particularly valuable research sites in your field.  If you have
time, we would also greatly appreciate a brief description of how the
sites are furthering scientific research.
Thank you,
Cameron Shelley
Paul Thagard
Computational Epistemology Laboratory
Philosophy Department
University of Waterloo
http://cogsci.uwaterloo.ca/
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Subject: Postdoctoral position
From: roberts17@llnl.gov (Jeffery Roberts)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 00:55:14 GMT
Below is the posting for a post-doctoral position in experimental
geophysics at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.  General
information regarding the Laboratory and the application process is
listed at the end of this message.  Formal applications are necessary
and will be examined starting November 25.
It may be possible to meet informally with potential candidates at the
Fall AGU meeting in San Francisco, and we would also like to see the
presentations of interested people.  Individuals wishing to discuss
this position should contact me, Jeff Roberts, by sending email to the
following addresses:
roberts17@llnl.gov AND jroberts@tdl.com
As I will be away from the lab much of the time preceding the meeting,
email will be the best method of communication.
Jeff Roberts, Ph.D.
Experimental Geophysics
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POST DOCTORAL RESEARCH STAFF MEMBER (220.0) - EV-3850 - Environmental
Programs/Geophysics and Global Security - 9743 - 
Posting Date - October 25, 1996
Salary Open
NOTE:  This is a one year appointment with the possibility of
extension to a maximum of three years.
NATURE AND SCOPE OF POSITION:
An opening exists for a post-doctoral Geophysicist to participate in
studying the electrical properties of saturated and unsaturated rocks
and soils containing clay and contaminants and the hydrological
properties of rocks at high confining pressures and high temperatures,
in the laboratory and in the field.  This research is supported by
environmental research/management programs and by high level nuclear
waste management programs.  Will interact in a team environment.
ESSENTIAL DUTIES:
Planning and execution of laboratory experiments to measure the
electrical properties of rocks and soil as functions of saturation,
clay and contaminant content, and temperature.  Analysis and modeling
of data.  Participate in development of joint inversion of electrical
and seismic data from field measurements.
Planning and execution of experiments to measure hydrological
properties of rocks at high pressure and high temperatures in the
laboratory.  The laboratory studies include determination of moisture
retention curves, 1-D imbibition and dehydration, and fracture flow
versus matrix imbibition.
Participation in field experiments of coupled
thermal-mechanical-hydrological-chemical processes.  The field
experiments include imaging of moisture content and movement within a
heated rock mass using electrical resistance tomography, neutron
logging, and measurement of rock and fracture mechanical properties.
Preparation of data for publication and present results at conferences
and meetings.
MARGINAL DUTIES:
Study physical, mechanical, and other transport properties of
geological materials.
Contribute expertise in hydrology, geophysics, and environmental
science to other programs as required.
ESSENTIAL SKILLS, KNOWLEDGE, AND ABILITIES:
Recent Ph.D. in experimental hydrology, geophysics, or related field.
Experience in the measurement of frequency-dependent electrical
properties and other physical properties of rocks and soils .
Experience with high-pressure, high-temperature experimental
techniques.
Demonstrated effective communication skills.
DESIRED SKILLS, KNOWLEDGE, AND ABILITIES:
Knowledge in automated data acquisition using Labview is desirable.
Ability to work in a variety of computing environments, including
UNIX, DOS, and Macintosh operating systems.
SECURITY:  Anticipated clearance level "L"
As an equal opportunity employer, LLNL encourages all persons to apply
for positions throughout the organization.
EMPLOYMENT REP: Quincy McClain (Approved Q. McClain 10/22/96)
LAWRENCE LIVERMORE NATIONAL LABORATORY
P.O. Box 5510
L-725
Livermore, CA  94551 USA
HOW TO APPLY
  The Laboratory uses an optical scanning system to review your
resumes against any openings.  All resumes and Employee Resume forms
received are reviewed.  During the review, applicants may also be
considered for other employment opportunities.  Those that closely
match the qualifications are referred for consideration to the hiring
organization.  The hiring organization interviews the applicants with
the most suitable qualifications and makes a final selection.  The
employment process is thorough and lengthy. Due to the large volume we
receive, it is not possible to interview all interested applicants.
  To apply for a position submit a personal resume with a one page
cover letter to Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.  All resumes
should be originals or a good reproduction typed on plain white paper
with no underlining graphics or shading.  After we receive your
resume, you will receive a postcard acknowledgment.  You will be
considered for any openings for which you meet the requirements.
Resumes will remain and circulate within the system for one year.
Please do not resubmit your resume during that period, unless you are
updating pertinent information.  Please submit your resume by mail to
Recruiting & Employment Division, P.O. Box 5510, L-725, Livermore, CA
94551.  Please do not send your resume directly to, or otherwise
contact the hiring department.
EMPLOYMENT ELIGIBILITY
  Except in unusual circumstances, U.S. citizenship is required for
employment at LLNL in positions requiring Department of Energy
security clearances.  Under Federal Law, Lawrence Livermore National
Laboratory may employ individuals who are legally able to work in the
U.S. as established by providing documents specified in the
Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.
ACCOMMODATIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES
  The Laboratory will provide, upon the applicant's request,
reasonable accommodations to enable the applicant to participate in
the selection process and/or perform the essential functions of the
job.
OFFICE HOURS
  We are open from 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. PST Monday through Friday
at the Satellite Employment Office, Trailer 6526, Greenville Road,
Livermore, CA.  Accommodations for persons with disabilities can be
arranged by calling the Employment Receptionist in the Satellite
Employment Office (510) 423-9757.  For TDD please call (510) 422-4327.
ABOUT THE LABORATORY
 Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is a world-renowned research
and development center.  The mission of the Laboratory is to serve as
a national resource of scientific, technical, and engineering
capability with special focus on global security, global ecology and
bioscience.
 We have major initiatives in national security, energy, environment,
economic competitiveness, technology transfer, education,
high-performance computing, education and biotechnology.
The Laboratory's main facility is located in Livermore, California,
approximately 50 miles south east of San Francisco.  LLNL employs
approximately 7321 employees and has an annual budget of over $860
million.
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Subject: Galileo Makes Close Pass by Callisto
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 00:54 UT
Douglas Isbell
Headquarters, Washington, DC               November 4, 1996
(Phone:  202/358-1753)
Franklin O'Donnell
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
(Phone:  818/354-5011)
RELEASE:  96-226
GALILEO MAKES CLOSE PASS BY CALLISTO
        For the first time, NASA's Galileo spacecraft flew 
close to Jupiter's moon Callisto this morning (Nov. 4), 
passing within 686 miles of the stark, crater-studded natural 
satellite at 8:34 a.m. EST. 
        The flyby was by far the closest any spacecraft has 
ever come to Callisto, the outermost of the four big moons 
orbiting Jupiter that were first discovered by the 
spacecraft's namesake, Italian astronomer Galileo Galilee.  
Signals confirming the event were received on Earth 46 
minutes later. 
        Data from this Callisto flyby and another one next 
June should help resolve questions about why this seemingly 
inactive, pockmarked moon is so different from its vastly 
more active siblings -- tectonic Ganymede, volcanic Io and 
Europa, which may have an ocean beneath its cracked, icy crust. 
        Callisto is the outermost and, apparently, least 
active of Jupiter's four major Galilean satellites.  The 
2,400-mile-diameter moon is the second largest of Jupiter's 
16 known moons.  Its aged appearance is its most distinctive 
known feature.  It has the oldest, most cratered face of any 
body yet observed in the solar system. 
        "With data from this encounter, we'll know more about 
why Callisto is so different from Jupiter's more lively 
moons," said Galileo Project Scientist Dr. Torrence V. 
Johnson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. 
       "Some of the most interesting aspects of the Callisto 
flyby are actually the observations we're making of other 
bodies, such as Jupiter and Europa.  We're coming to within 
about 21,100 miles of Europa and about 409,000 miles of 
Jupiter.  Looking at their dark sides, we should get some 
very good data from atmospheric measurements and auroral 
searches," he said. 
        Science instruments on the spacecraft were pre-
programmed to take measurements of Callisto's surface to 
determine its composition and history, to look for evidence 
of any activity such as tectonism, and to search for hints of 
any magnetic field that may be generated by the moon.  While 
some of the data are sent back to Earth immediately, much of 
it, including all the images, are being recorded on the 
spacecraft tape recorder for playback to Earth over the next 
few weeks. 
        Like Jupiter's biggest moon, Ganymede, Callisto seems 
to have a rocky core surrounded by ice.  Unlike the other 
large moons of Jupiter, however, the surface of Callisto is 
completely covered with scars left by tens of thousands of 
meteoric impacts.  Although the exact rate of impact crater 
formation is not known, scientists estimate that it would 
require several billion years to accumulate the number of 
craters found there, so Callisto is believed to have been 
inactive at least that long. 
        The Callisto flyby marks the start of a new 
telecommunications capability created to maximize the amount 
of data that can be received from Galileo.  The giant 
antennas that listen to NASA's exploratory robots in deep 
space have been augmented this week with the inauguration of 
a new link between the agency's Deep Space Network 
telecommunications stations in California and Australia and 
Australia's Parkes radio astronomy antenna. 
        NASA's intercontinental link-up -- or "arraying" -- 
of giant antennas was developed to retrieve the maximum 
amount of data possible from NASA's Galileo spacecraft, whose 
planned high-speed, high-power telecommunications voice was 
reduced to a whisper when its main antenna failed to open 
four years ago. 
        For several hours a day, large collecting areas on 
these big antennas are being devoted to receiving the 
spacecraft's faint transmissions concurrently as Galileo 
nears Callisto and returns data from its flyby.  The Callisto 
encounter occurred with the spacecraft at one of its most 
distant points from the Earth, which makes receipt of 
Galileo's weak signal even more difficult.  The arraying 
technique, however, allows more of the spacecraft's signal to 
be captured, thereby enabling a higher data rate.  The 
arraying will be used daily throughout most of the remainder 
of the mission. 
        The debut of routine arraying of the Deep Space 
Network antennas represents the final installment of several 
imaginative engineering solutions that have enabled the 
Galileo Project team to carry out its mission despite the 
loss of the spacecraft's main telecommunications antenna. 
        "With our spacecraft software and ground receiving 
station improvements already in place, this new arraying 
capability is the icing on the cake," said Galileo Mission 
Director Neal Ausman of JPL.  "The new array is critical to 
getting Galileo's scientific data from the Jupiter orbital 
tour back to Earth." 
        Arraying, together with other improvements in the 
space-to-ground communications link, increases by 10 times 
the quantity of raw data received from Galileo than would 
otherwise be possible.  Changes in the way the Galileo 
spacecraft edits and compresses data, results in an 
additional factor of 10.  When taken together, these 
improvements enable Galileo to meet 70 percent of its 
original science goals. 
        Software changes on the spacecraft now ensure that 
every bit of science and engineering telemetry from the 
spacecraft is crammed with as much information as possible.  
So while the data amount received from Galileo is 
comparatively small, all of it is highly valued. 
        Galileo's high-gain antenna was to have provided a 
134-kilobit-per-second real-time data rate from Jupiter.  Had 
no improvements been made in the Deep Space Network, only a 
10-bit-per-second data rate would have been possible with 
Galileo's small low-gain antenna for most of the mission.  
These improvements, however, along with the changes made on 
the spacecraft, further increase the downlinked data to an 
effective rate of 1,000 bits per second. 
        "As the Earth turns relative to Galileo's position in 
the sky, different arrayed antennas will hand-off the receipt 
of data from Galileo over a 12-hour period," said Leslie J. 
Deutsch of JPL, one of the principal innovators behind the 
solution for Galileo's communications problem.  The array 
electronically links the stadium-size, 230-foot diameter dish 
antenna at the Deep Space Network complex in Goldstone, CA, 
with an identical antenna located at the Australia site, in 
addition to two 112-foot antennas at the Canberra complex.  
The California and Australia sites concurrently pick up 
communications with Galileo.  The Parkes radio telescope 
joins in with the Canberra station for six hours each day. 
        "For two hours each day, a total of up to five 
antennas are pointing in unison to receive transmissions from 
Galileo," Deutsch said. 
        The new hardware, software and operations that make 
antenna arraying possible for Galileo represents a major 
improvement in the world's deep space telecommunications 
system for other missions as well, said Paul Westmoreland, 
director of telecommunications and mission operations at JPL.  
The effort cost $30.5 million. 
        "The methods used and much of the equipment will be 
especially useful for the new era of our faster, better, 
cheaper interplanetary missions," Westmoreland said.  "This 
opens the way for mission developers to reduce future 
spacecraft costs by using smaller spacecraft antennas and 
transmitters." 
        In the future, after the Galileo mission, other 
antennas may be added to routine arraying for spacecraft 
communications and radio science experiments.  Among them are 
the twenty-seven 82-foot diameter antennas that make up the 
Very Large Array of radiotelescopes in Socorro, NM, and the 
210-foot radio telescope facility at Usuda, Japan. 
        The new arraying capability sprang forth as an 
emergency measure to mitigate the loss of Galileo's high-gain 
antenna, but the effort now represents a permanent change and 
improvement in the way deep space telecommunications will be 
conducted from now on, said Joseph I. Statman, 
telecommunications specialist at JPL, who engineered the 
system. 
        "Galileo gets credit for giving arraying a huge 
push," said Statman.  "This is the first time we will see 
routine arraying of antennas for spacecraft communications 
day in, day out.  The Deep Space Network is now implementing 
arraying at Goldstone, as part of its standard 
configuration."
       Several 112-foot antennas at Goldstone are to be 
outfitted with the equipment needed so they can operate 
together as an array, he said. "This represents the wave of 
the future because no more 70-meter antennas will be built 
for the Deep Space Network; only 34-meter antennas will be 
added to the network from now on.  When future spacecraft 
with small transmitters and antennas require a higher 
downlink data rate, we will have a field of antennas with 
which we can manage and satisfy our customers' demands for 
telecommunications resources." 
        JPL manages the Galileo project for NASA's Office of 
Space Science, Washington, DC. 
                           -end-
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Subject: Re: Three Mars Missions to Launch in Late 1996
From: ragman@cybercom.net (Ragman)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 03:57:32 GMT
jbartlo@ouchem.chem.oakland.edu (Joseph Bartlo) wrote:
>Interesting.  This is not especially appropriate for this
>newsgroup, but perhaps others have wondered the same thing.
>What has prevented a human Mars landing similar to Apollo
>11 ?  Spaceships have made the journey in slightly > 4
>months (perhaps less), and people have survived okay in
>near-weightlessness for over twice that long.  Thus, I
>assume adequate oxygen, water, and food would be available.
>Its rotation rate is very similar to Earth's.  Perhaps
>temperature might cause a problem, but energy for heating
>should be obtainable during daytime.  Its gravity is only
>slightly > than twice that of moon, so if escape speed can
>be achieved there, it should be able to be for Mars.  Do
>wind storms cause much of a problem ?  (So perhaps this is
>appropriate here).  I assume such would be an international
>mission, since the Soviets were nice enough about the moon
>landing.
>Does anyone have info regarding that ?
>Joseph
I think the reason there has been no manned mission to Mars has a lot
more to do with lack of funding than lack of technology.
Tom
Tom
ragman@cybercom.net
#############################################################
#                                                           #
#   "Jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule"  #
#                                  --Bob Dylan              #
#                                                           #
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Subject: Re: Evidence of Life Found in 2nd Mars Meteorite
From: ladasky@leland.Stanford.EDU (John Ladasky)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 21:11:18 -0800
In article <327C2EDF.1B6F@scn.org>, Phillip Bigelow   wrote:
>Graham Shields wrote:
>
>> >EVIDENCE OF LIFE FOUND IN SECOND MARS METEORITE
>> >Written by Ron Baalke
>
>> >scientists in England claimed that they've
>> >found traces of organic material in a second Mars meteorite, EETA 79001.
>> >The same team also reported that they've found organic matter in the ALH 84001
>> >meteorite, the same meteorite that a NASA team reported last August as having
>> >possible microfossils.  A critical finding by the British team is that
>> >EETA 79001 contains significant amounts of organic material, up to
>> >1,000 parts per million.  This organic material has yet to be identified. 
>
>
>> Woah, I think we should hold our horses a little. Traces of organic matter
>> do not mean by a long shot that there was life. There are organic
>> molecules in many meteorites, the aromatic hydrocarbons from the
>> Murchison meteorite were discovered way back in the seventies.
>
>The Murchinson meteorite is a epic story in itself. This meteorite
>is the 2nd most studied meteorite in the scientific literature
>(Allende is of course numero uno).
>The aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons found in Murchison
>are quite numerous...and relatively concentrated.
>Robert Haag ("the meteorite man") reported buying a fragment of
>Murchy from an Australian woman, who had promptly put the
>meteorite in a sealed glass jar only days after the fall...and
>had never taken the cover off again until Haag showed up.
> When Haag opened the jar, he reported that the "ether" smell
>was so strong, it nearly knocked him out (Haag tends to go for
>the dramatic in his writings).
>Esters, alcohols, alkanes, alkenes, polycyclics, water, formaldehyde,
>and, most importantly, AMINO ACIDS were found in Murchy.
>This caused a stir in the pop press, a few of whom claimed that
>"proof of alien life in the universe" had been found.
>None of the researchers involved in studying Murchy had EVER
>claimed anything like that, of course.  Ever since the
>Cornell experiment that made making organics in a electrified glass
>container (by Carl Sagan and Dr. P. (1960's)), scientists had known 
>that amino acids, although an interesting discovery, were
>pretty-much predicted to be eventually found in space.
>  The non-biologic (at least non-earth-type biologic) genesis of
>the Murchy amino acids was confirmed soon after, when the
>molecular structures of some of the acids were found to be
>"mirror images" of the amino acids produced by living organisms 
>on earth.
>Apparently, on earth, living organisms synthesize amino acids
>only in one structure type. No mirror image molecules are made.
>But in the Murchinson meteorite, both regular(?) and mirror-image
>molecules occured.
> Which raises this question:  Would a good test for the "biogenic"
>nature of amino acids in Mars meteorites (if any amino acids are
>ever discovered there) be the presence of only one structural 
>"mirror-type" of the molecules?
	Probably not.  There are scientists interested in studying DNA
from ancient organisms -- preserved museum specimens, corpses, bones,
or even fossils.  It has proven difficult to measure the extent of
DNA degradation that occurs in dead tissue directly.  However, it was
recently found that racemization (conversion of one mirror image form
[the formal term is "stereoisomer"] into the oppostie form) of amino
acids begins once an organism dies.  This racemization correlates well
with the ability to extract and analyze DNA from the tissue.  The rate
of racemization is fairly rapid for tissue that decays here on Earth --
it goes to completion within several thousand years at best.  (I think
that this paper appeared in Nature -- email me if you want me to try to
find the reference.)
	A meteorite probably would have been exposed to too much abuse
before we would get our hands on it to analyze.  Some environments may
be more favorable than others for the preservation of stereospecific
molecules.  Space might be excellent, because of the vaccuum.  On the
other hand, all the models suggest that meteorites ejected from the
surface of a planet have probably been subjected to considerable heating
during the impact.  This is probably not good for stereospecific molec-
ules.  Additionally, the meteorites that we find have also been sitting
on the Earth for a unknown (probably long) period of time.  Antarctica
may or may not be hospitable to stereospecificity.  I doubt that anyone
has checked.
	On the other hand, checking for stereospecific molecules would
probably be an excellent test for the presence of life in *freshly-iso-
lated* Martian soil.  Let's send a retrieval robot or some astronauts.
And if we bring home the Andromeda Strain, at least we can say that he
human race died in pursuit of a noble cause... :^)
-- 
Unique ID : Ladasky, John Joseph Jr.
Title     : BA Biochemistry, U.C. Berkeley, 1989  (Ph.D. perhaps 1998???)
Location  : Stanford University, Dept. of Structural Biology, Fairchild D-105
Keywords  : immunology, music, running, Green
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Evidence of Life Found in 2nd Mars Meteorite
From: ladasky@leland.Stanford.EDU (John Ladasky)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 21:23:14 -0800
In article <327CFDC4.2582@cam.org>, Achim Recktenwald   wrote:
>s1045099@iplabs.ins.gu.edu.au wrote:
[...]
>The existence of a racemate of amino acids in the Murchinson meteor
>would not necessarily exclude its origin from/by living organism.
	Yes, but the existence of a biased amino acid mix (in favor of
either the D isomer or the L isomer) would be excellent evidence in 
favor of life.  Whether that life was Terran or Martian in origin would
be debatable if one worked with a meteorite sample.  But a soil sample
from Mars would be less ambiguous.
-- 
Unique ID : Ladasky, John Joseph Jr.
Title     : BA Biochemistry, U.C. Berkeley, 1989  (Ph.D. perhaps 1998???)
Location  : Stanford University, Dept. of Structural Biology, Fairchild D-105
Keywords  : immunology, music, running, Green
Return to Top
Subject: Coriolis effect and creeper plants
From: s1045099@iplabs.ins.gu.edu.au
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:17:16 GMT
Hi all,
On the weekend, while walking in a local rainforest national park, I noticed 
that all the vines which use trees to climb and reach the canopy were 
ascending in an anticlockwise spiral when looking from the top.  I wondered if 
the coriolis effect was being taken advantage of here.  Was this due to the 
way that rain water spirals down the trunk of the host tree, or perhaps the 
the vine was utilising the coriolis effect to bring water up from the ground 
in the most efficient way.  
Anyone got any info on this?
Scott
Return to Top
Subject: Re: help-limestone mining
From: Melanie Roberti
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 00:33:16 -0500
CrushStone wrote:
> 
> In article <53vjfl$m5i@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net>,
> carrj@voyager.co.nz (Julie Carr) writes:
> 
> >We have been studying limestone rocks, their composition, and uses
> >particularly in manufacturing cement.   We need to know of any adverse
> >effects on the environment of mining limestone, adverse effects of
> >manufacturing cement, and adverse effects of using limestone.
> >Can anyone help.
> 
> Please go to this site for more info.  http://sts.gsc.emr.ca/page1/landf/
>    It contains a few half truths, but is mostly correct.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Steve Stokowski
> Stone Products Consultants
> Concrete Petrographers
> 10 Clark St., Ashland, Mass. USA 01721
> 508-881-6364
> CrushStone@aol.comThe manufacture of Crushed Limestone can be very dusty.  To manufacture 
cement a very large Kiln is required, which needs to fired by coal, or 
sometimes old tires are used.  The Kilns are a tempting place to 
incinerate Hazardous materials as well
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Evidence of Life Found in 2nd Mars Meteorite
From: Phillip Bigelow
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:51:54 -0800
Colin Rosenthal wrote:
> It seems that the major piece of evidence is that the isotopic ratios
> of Carbon in the rock match those produced by (Earth) bacteria. (So why is so
> much of this thread about ratios of isomers??)
Sorry for the confusion that I raised on this topic.  (I realize
these threads can get side-tracked, but in this case, the track
was, in my opinion, worth-while).
The reason that the question on isomers was raised was to move
the discussion toward a way to distinguish biogenic organics
from non-biogenic organics.  As the thread pointed out,
isomeric analysis might not provide a definative way to
determine the mode of formation of the chemicals (in this case, if any
amino acids are ever discovered in Martian meteorites). 
  In other words, the question was dealing with hypothetical
data, not the data that the British team found.
NO Martian amino acids have (yet) been found.
Sorry for the confusion.
                   
Return to Top
Subject: Euler Deconvolution
From: Joel Scott
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 21:56:34 -0800
I seek a public domain or shareware algorithm to calculate depths to
magnetic sources using Euler Deconvolution. Any suggestions on where to
look.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Asteroid Hit at Deadly Oblique Angle 65 Million Years Ago
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 06:07:18 GMT
In article , Brian Pickrell  wrote:
>: Schultz used a high-powered gun to recreate the dynamics of an
>: object striking Earth's surface at a 20- to 30-degree angle. The
>: experiment produced horseshoe-shaped craters, while high-speed
>: film captured gas and materials jettisoned downrange.
>
>Does anybody know how high-powered his gun was?  Could it achieve
>hypersonic velocities similar to meteoric impact velocities?
I do know that Steve D'Hondt participated in a laboratory
experiment in his first geology class, in which a ball bearing
was thrown into a sandbox at varying angles. If we'd only
known how impressionable those young minds were...
Asymmetrical impact features are well documented from observations
of the Moon.  I don't know the details of how they're thought to
have formed.
pho
>
>: The researchers said that biological evidence appears to support
>: their oblique-impact hypothesis. North America, the first region
>: to experience the fireball, had the most severe extinctions of
>: plants.
>
>[...]
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian Pickrell      
>
>	My sister has an Oscar Wilde quote in her .signature.
-- 
    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@pangea.stanford.edu
Return to Top
Subject: Attention mine owners or remote users of electricity -Off Grid Solar Thermal..
From: soltherm@chatlink.com (renewable )
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 06:19:41 GMT
Attention mine owners or remote users of electricity:
If you own a resort, ranch or mining operation and spend alot of money
on electricity and heating costs, and importing bottled water,
ice making etc., by all means check out what solar thermal can do for
you, saving you thousands.  3-5 yr buyback.
Systems for 3-12 kWe + mega BTU's.. solar distill,
makes ice, ALL HVAC........ Go Off-Grid and Remote.
http://www.chatlink.com/~soltherm/
-see a system digram - the first link you see as
you scroll down.
If your looking for an incredible investment opportunity, don't miss
this site! DOE and Sandia quotes on prices, old news NOW.
doug
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Earthlight
From: Bob
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 22:44:51 -0800
Gerard Fryer wrote:
> 
> In article <847052952.11927.0@cisft64.demon.co.uk>, Martin Hogbin  writes:
> >Does anyone have any information on the so called earthlights that
> >may be connected with earthquakes?
> 
> Earthquake lights are bright luminescences at ground level, as much as
> a quarter-mile across, which may last for as long as two minutes. They
> are seen during an earthquake or immediately before. They are pretty
> obviously some sort of electromagnetic effect, though quite what has
> yet to be explained. The most popular explanation invokes
> piezoelectricity (voltage induced by squeezing rock) or
> triboluminescence (photon discharge on breaking atomic bonds).
> 
> Earthquake lights are pretty well documented and have been
> photographed in Japan. Several of the photographs are reproduced in
> "Earthquake lights: a review of observations and present theories," by
> J.S. Derr, Bulletin of the Seismological Society of America, v. 63, p.
> 2177-2187, 1973. Derr also includes this old haiku:
> 
>          The Earth speaks softly
>             To the mountain
>          Which trembles
>             And lights the sky
> 
> Here in Hawaii the phenomenon is sometimes called "Pele's Dog" (I guess
> because a big earthquake may be a precursor to volcanic eruption and
> Pele is the Volcano Goddess). The last reliable report I heard of
> Pele's Dog was from Honuapo on the Big Island of Hawaii right after the
> magnitude 7.2 Kalapana earthquake of 1975: lights started flickering in
> the sky in an area with no roads or power lines, followed within a few
> seconds by the shaking. Bloke says to his wife "We have to get out of
> here!" They run out the front door of the house as the first wave of
> the tsunami pushes in the back door.
> 
> Dunno if you have wintergreen LifeSavers(tm) in the Old Sod, but if
> you can find some, take them into a dark room and smash them with a
> hammer. Triboluminescence. Sure is weird.
> 
> --
> Gerard Fryer
> gerard@hawaii.edu        http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/~gerard/
> 
> Personal views only.
Then what was that brilliant purple flash to the northwest that I and
several friends saw the night before the Landers and Big Bear quakes?  I
also cannot explain why, as soon as I saw it,I knew that we would have
an earthquake.  Six to eight hours later, voila!  BTW, I live in Orange
County, California, to put the above in the proper geographic frame of
reference (both Big Bear and Landers lie in the general direction of the
observed flash).
Bob
I use AOL for mail ONLY; I use Netcom and Netscape for everything else.
Return to Top
Subject: A demonstration earthquake prediction program 11/05/96
From: edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com(EDG Research Projects)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 06:39:21 GMT
A DEMONSTRATION EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION PROGRAM   11/05/96
From:  E.D.G., Scientific Consultant, edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com
Web Site:  http://www.prairienet.org/~edgrsprj/homepage.html
Posted To:  Earthquake And Geology Related Newsgroups
This notice will discuss a demonstration version of a proposed
earthquake prediction program which I recently installed at my
Internet World Wide Web site at address (URL):
http://www.prairienet.org/~edgrsprj/152.htm
All of the information in this notice represents expressions of
personal opinion.
An article in the September 13, 1996 issue of "SCIENCE" magazine
pages 1484 to 1486 discussed an earthquake prediction
(forecasting) program which has been running in the People's
Republic of China for the past 30 years.  The program relies on
the collection and evaluation of earthquake precursor data
(earthquake warning signals).  When certain warning signs are
observed an earthquake alert is circulated.  The "SCIENCE"
magazine article stated that the program has reportedly enabled
earthquake prediction workers in that country to predict a number
of earthquakes and save a tremendous number of lives.
Here in the U.S. it would probably be relatively easy for us to
develop that type of earthquake prediction program by using the
Internet.  Private citizens, scientific groups, and government
agencies would collect earthquake precursor information and send
it to the computer running the program by using a Web site data
entry screen, by e-mail, by telephone, with simple, inexpensive
radio transmitters, and even by regular mail.  The data would be
evaluated, stored in downloadable files at some Web site and
displayed on expandable, interactive maps at that site.  To
determine how reliable the submitted data was likely to be the
program would check to see if it had been submitted by a
registered data supplier or by someone who was not registered.
When unusually large numbers of earthquake precursor observations
were being reported from some location, efforts would be made to
determine if an earthquake might be about to occur there.  When
an earthquake did occur researchers would go though the
downloadable earthquake precursor data files and attempt to
determine which precursors, if any, provided us with reliable
warnings about approaching earthquakes.
Such an earthquake prediction program could probably be developed
with a relatively small amount of effort and run for very little
money compared to the amount of devastation that it might enable
us to avoid if it produced just one accurate earthquake
prediction.  And the success which the government of the People's
Republic of China has reportedly had with their program suggests
to me that it would likely work.
For almost a year now there has been a proposal (presently due to
be updated) at my Web site which explains how we could create and
run that type of program.  The proposal can be found at address:
http://www.prairienet.org/~edgrsprj/108.htm
Recently I installed a demonstration version of that proposed
earthquake prediction program at my Web site (152.htm).  It is
based on made-up data and shows how such a program might have
worked if it had been running on January 16, 1994, the day before
a devastating earthquake occurred in Northridge, California, USA.
My demonstration program has an operational data entry screen
(150.htm) and a "Help File" for that screen (151.htm), color maps
which show how earthquake precursor data might be displayed, and
examples of how precursor data could be stored in downloadable
files.  Also in the "Help File" are links to Internet Web sites
where earthquake predictions (forecasts) are being made and to
sites where people can post their own earthquake predictions if
they wish.
E.D.G.,  Scientific Consultant
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Question about pegmatite (??)
From: Melanie Roberti
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 00:29:14 -0500
Angel wrote:
> 
> Hello. First of all, I have to tell that I know practically nothing
> about geology, so maybe my question looks like an stupid one. Someone
> who is interested in this science has asked me if I knew the answer (the
> answer is no), and I've thought that maybe someone knows the answer in
> here. Well, here comes: is pegmatite (in Spanish: pegmatita) a plutonic
> (in Spanish: plutonica) or a metamorphic (in Spanish: metamorfica) rock?
> Sorry, but I haven't found these words in my Spanish to English
> dictionary, so I have had to translate the names by myself. Thanks for
> reading.
> 
> Angel
> 
> ps: use email if you know the answer to my question.Its a plutonic rock type
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Mars life: First a few things need explaining...
From: cb422@torfree.net (Geoffrey Dow)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:36:19 GMT
Honest to god, I've never done this before, but tadchem's words are 
well worth repeating: 
tadchem (tadchem@arn.net) wrote:
: >Another vehicles of interplanetary biologic transfer has also been
: >proposed by which bacteria in dust floats to the upper atmosphere
: >where it might then be carried away by solar wind.
: Ionized is more likely; 
: >I don't think anybody can say for certain.  I'm really not a fan off
: >these "panspermia" theories myself, and given the announced results
: >from the University of New Mexico team I'm led to think that whatever
: >NASA found on that asteroid, it wasn't related to terrestrial life.
: The real question we should be after is HOW life got started from non-living 
: matter.  Arguing over WHERE simply defers the real question.
To tri-iterate: "Arguing over WHERE simply defers the real question."
Geoff
-- 
Return to Top
Subject: WARD'S Geology fax number
From: ctiff@nimitz.saclay.cea.fr (TIFFREAU Christophe)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 14:35:17 GMT
Hi everyone,
I am currently trying to join the Ward's Geology & Earth Science Company at 
Rochester NY in order to buy geologial specimens.
Unfortunately, it seems that I haven't the correct fax number. Does anybody 
know the correct address of Ward's Geology and especially their fax number ???
I thank you in advance for any help.
Christophe TIFFREAU
Laboratoire Pierre Sue
Bat 637
Centre d'Etudes Nucleaires de Saclay
91191 GIF SUR YVETTE CEDEX
Fax : (33) 01.69.08.69.23
e-mail : ctiff@lps.saclay.cea.fr
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Coriolis effect and creeper plants
From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:51:26 GMT
In article ,
  wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>On the weekend, while walking in a local rainforest national park, I noticed 
>that all the vines which use trees to climb and reach the canopy were 
>ascending in an anticlockwise spiral when looking from the top.  I wondered if 
>the coriolis effect was being taken advantage of here.  Was this due to the 
>way that rain water spirals down the trunk of the host tree, or perhaps the 
>the vine was utilising the coriolis effect to bring water up from the ground 
>in the most efficient way.  
Coriolis effect is negligible at the scale of your typical creeper. it
is far more likely due to most of the vines having a common genetic
background.
-- 
    ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) **********
    *               Daly City California                  *
    *   Between San Francisco and South San Francisco     *
    *******************************************************
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Coriolis effect and creeper plants
From: Peter Halls
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:46:05 +0000
I seem to remember that some twine one way - and aothers t'other ...
indeed, back in the '60's there was a popular song in the UK regarding the
offspring of the union between a honeysuckle and a bindweed ... which
could not work out whether "to twine to the left, or to twine to the
right" (and, of course, "went straight up and fell flat on its face"!).
Whilst there will be something genetic in the makeup of the plants,
whether it is a coriolis effect is probably a very different matter!
Peter
{OK, yes, the song *is* Flanders and Swann!]
On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 s1045099@iplabs.ins.gu.edu.au wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> On the weekend, while walking in a local rainforest national park, I noticed 
> that all the vines which use trees to climb and reach the canopy were 
> ascending in an anticlockwise spiral when looking from the top.  I wondered if 
> the coriolis effect was being taken advantage of here.  Was this due to the 
> way that rain water spirals down the trunk of the host tree, or perhaps the 
> the vine was utilising the coriolis effect to bring water up from the ground 
> in the most efficient way.  
> 
> Anyone got any info on this?
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPPPPH     H  | Peter Halls - University of York Computing Service -
P    P     H  |                        GIS Advisor
P    P     H  | Email: P.Halls@YORK.AC.UK
PPPPPJHHHHHH  | Telephone: 01904 433806  FAX: 01904 433740
P    J     H  | Smail: Computing Service,
P    J     H  |        University of York,
P    J     H  |        Heslington.
     J        |        YORK Y01 5DD
 J   J        |        England.
  JJJ   This message has the status of a private & personal communication
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to Top
Subject: GPS location tagged field data capture in Geology
From: manuel@fieldworker.com (Manuel Silva)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:02:00 GMT
This is a message for people in your area who share a common
problem:  compiling data when the location of the data is as
important as the information itself.
FieldWorker is software linking a handheld computer to a
Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver for an easy to use,
affordable, portable solution.  This product has met with enthusiastic
response from the geological community.
As a result, we are trying to inform as many people as we can within
this industry to let them know that a solution exists.
Want to know more or be kept informed?  Visit our web site, send an
e-mail or call us. 
=======================================================
Manuel Silva                                            
INTRODUCTORY OFFER:     $50 off your GPS or a free GPS receiver
=======================================================
Location tagged data collection usable data in minutes NOT months!
FieldWorker ... http://www.fieldworker.com  Phone:  +1 416 483-3485
=======================================================
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Coriolis effect and creeper plants
From: ft64@cityscape.co.uk
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:24:17 GMT
The coriolis force is realy only effective on things that are moving 
fairly quickly, such as wind.  I doubt very much whether a creeper would 
be able to detect this force.
Regards 
Martin Hogbin
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Earthlight
From: ft64@cityscape.co.uk
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:27:36 GMT
Thanks for the info.  Do you know of anyone who is studying this 
phenomenon?  In particular, has anyone done any optical spectroscopy on 
the observed light as this would give a clue as to its origin.
Regards
Martin Hogbin
Return to Top
Subject: info on expanding earth claim sought
From: edstrom@Poopsie.hmsc.orst.edu (John Edstrom)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 17:37:20 GMT
I've just heard a rumor that somebody has claimed that the earth has
been expanding logarithmically and has doubled in diameter and mass
during the last 100 million years.  The name associated with the claim
is S Warren Carey.
Somebody said that the topic had been discussed here a while ago.  I
can't find a sci.geo.geology FAQ or archive.  Does anyone know
anything about the origin and substance of this rumor?
je
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Question about pegmatite (??)
From: "Jeffrey Moe"
Date: 3 Nov 1996 21:09:48 GMT
Well, here comes: is pegmatite (in Spanish: pegmatita) a plutonic
> (in Spanish: plutonica) or a metamorphic (in Spanish: metamorfica) rock?
Pegmatite is an igneous rock type (Plutonic) that indicates a course
textured rock.
Jeff
Return to Top
Subject: Irc chat
From: treasure@televar.com (Kemp LaMunyon)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 18:50:52 GMT
Hi all,
  I am posting to this group in an attempt to get people interested in an IRC chat project I am doing. We are
trying to get people to teach classes over the chat line. Little half or one hour classes for us beginning rockhounds
jewelry projects, swap meets for trading minerals and rocks and Mining. If you are interested please E-mail me.
Sorry if I posted to this already. Forgot to write down where I send this message too.
Thank You
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/  IRC CHAT Server is spider.dal.net Channel #rocksandminerals  /
/  MONDAY 5:30pm 4th swap meet. WEDNESDAY 8:pm volcanic school  /
/  All times are pacific treasure@televar.com                   /
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Milankovitch theory ?
From: jnhead@suds.lpl.arizona.edu (James Head)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 22:59:25 GMT
In article  Will.Howard@antcrc.utas.edu.au (Will Howard) writes:
>In article <5583j3$fjs@news.ccit.arizona.edu>,
>jnhead@anaxamander.lpl.arizona.edu (James Head) wrote:
>> However, due to Kepler's Laws, the
>> time-averaged distance from the sun does change, by a factor of
>> 1+e if I recall my cel mech correctly.  The planet moves slower
>> farther from the sun, spending more time in the cold and less
>> close to the fire. 
>True, I should have mentioned that, though that's a very small effect
>compared to, say, the amplitude of the 65N summer insolation variations,
>which are themselves small subtle changes. Big area of active research and
>controversy, to say the least.
Consulting my faulty memory banks, the variation would have been
fairly large (5%).  Consulting my (4-year-old) notes, the correct
factor is 1+0.5*e^2, a factor of about 1 per mil (the time-averaged
planet-sun distance is the semi-major axis times one plus half the 
eccentricity squared).  Tiny, but interesting.
-- 
James N. Head                    |        IMP Calibration Team
Lunar and Planetary Lab          |        So many pixels
jnhead@lpl.arizona.edu           |        So little time
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Plate Tectonic Question
From: harper@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (John Harper)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 20:27:52 GMT
In article <55j0i8$2il@post.servtech.com>,
Joy Barnitz   wrote:
>What I've read says contenental shelf provides a better fit. Can't think 
>of the reference off hand, however.
Bullard EC, Everett JE, Smith AG Phil Trans Roy Soc Lond A258 41-75 1965
John Harper Mathematics Dept. Victoria University Wellington New Zealand
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Earthlight
From: gerard@hawaii.edu (Gerard Fryer)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 00:22:15 GMT
In article <847218456.19033.1@cisft64.demon.co.uk>, ft64@cityscape.co.uk writes:
>Thanks for the info.  Do you know of anyone who is studying this 
>phenomenon?  In particular, has anyone done any optical spectroscopy on 
>the observed light as this would give a clue as to its origin.
I dunno anyone working on earthquake lights. Actual spectroscopy is a
bit tough when you don't know where to set your equipment up. Arch
Johnston had a letter to "Nature" in December 1991 suggesting that
earthquake lights might be sonoluminescence (from the effects of sound
waves on water). If you are interested, that might be a place to
start.
-- 
Gerard Fryer      
gerard@hawaii.edu        http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/~gerard/
Personal views only.
Return to Top
Subject: Looking for maps
From: "greyhawk"
Date: 5 Nov 96 23:39:05 GMT
I am looking for a map of the Earth approximately 10 million years ago.
 I need both geographic and climatic information if it's available.  I
have tried both web and usenet searches (not the kind of thing 90% of
the people out are there are looking for, I suppose) and found nothing.
 I live in Japan, so going to the library is a limited option at best. 
Any help you can offer would be appreciated.  Thank-you.  Please reply
by e-mail to greyhawk@crisscross.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass,
	leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades
	to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the
	Age that gave it birth comes again.
						Robert Jordon   
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Milankovitch theory ?
From: Will.Howard@antcrc.utas.edu.au (Will Howard)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:55:33 +1100
In article <55ogsd$lvq@news.ccit.arizona.edu>, jnhead@suds.lpl.arizona.edu
(James Head) wrote:
> In article 
Will.Howard@antcrc.utas.edu.au (Will Howard) writes:
> >In article <5583j3$fjs@news.ccit.arizona.edu>,
> >jnhead@anaxamander.lpl.arizona.edu (James Head) wrote:
> 
> >> However, due to Kepler's Laws, the
> >> time-averaged distance from the sun does change, by a factor of
> >> 1+e if I recall my cel mech correctly.  The planet moves slower
> >> farther from the sun, spending more time in the cold and less
> >> close to the fire. 
> 
> >True, I should have mentioned that, though that's a very small effect
> >compared to, say, the amplitude of the 65N summer insolation variations,
> >which are themselves small subtle changes. Big area of active research and
> >controversy, to say the least.
> 
> Consulting my faulty memory banks, the variation would have been
> fairly large (5%).  Consulting my (4-year-old) notes, the correct
> factor is 1+0.5*e^2, a factor of about 1 per mil (the time-averaged
> planet-sun distance is the semi-major axis times one plus half the 
> eccentricity squared).  Tiny, but interesting.
Actually your expansion of the relationship between energy receipt (over a
full year) by the earth and eccentricity suggests that more energy should
be received at high eccentricity. Following Berger and Loutre (1994):
W_e = S_a/4 = S_a/(4*(1-e^2)^0.5)
where 
W_e = energy received over a full year (in energy per unit time per unit area)
S_a = energy received per unit time for a unit perpendicular area at
distance "a" from the sun (the semi-major axis)
e = eccentricity = ((a^2 - b^2)^0.5)/a
where b is the semiminor axis
In Berger and Loutre's example, taking present-day incoming radiation
(S_a) at 1360 w/m^2 and a present-day eccentricity of 0.016:
 W_e would increase 3.7 w/m^2 (0.27%) for e = 0.075 
 W_e would decrease 0.17 w/m^2 (0.01%) for e = 0
Note that 0.075 is somewhat greater than the maximum value for
eccentricity (about 0.06) during the past 1 million years in the Berger
and Loutre (1991) solution. The geological record shows that intervals of
high eccentricity actually are associated with the low-ice-volume,
interglacial stages of the late Quaternary. However, this association in
Milankovitch terms is due to eccentricity's modulation of the precession
effect (the e*sin(omega) term), i.e. the earth-sun distance in boreal
summer.
Thanks for making me think about about this rigorously.
References:
Berger, A., M. Loutre, and C. Tricot, Insolation and earth's orbital
periods, J. Geophys. Res., 98, 10341-10362, 1993.
Berger, A. L., and M. F. Loutre, Insolation values for the climate of the
last 10 million years, Quat. Sci. Rev., 10, 297-317, 1991.
Berger, A., and M. F. Loutre, Long-term variation of the astronomical
seasons, in Topics in Atmospheric and Interstellar Physics and Chemistry,
edited by C. Boutron, pp. 33-61, Les Editions de physique, Le Ulis,
France, 1994.
****************************************************************
email:     Will.Howard@antcrc.utas.edu.au
           Antarctic CRC / University of Tasmania
           GPO Box 252-80, Hobart, Tasmania 7001 AUSTRALIA
****************************************************************
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Subject: Re: info on expanding earth claim sought
From: Mark Duffett
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 13:02:06 +1000
John Edstrom wrote:
> 
> I've just heard a rumor that somebody has claimed that the earth has
> been expanding logarithmically and has doubled in diameter and mass
> during the last 100 million years.  The name associated with the claim
> is S Warren Carey.
> 
> Somebody said that the topic had been discussed here a while ago.  I
> can't find a sci.geo.geology FAQ or archive.  Does anyone know
> anything about the origin and substance of this rumor?
> 
Carey, the founding professor of the Geology Department at the University 
of Tasmania, was one of the key early proponents of continental drift 
(with subduction) in the early 1950s.  However he had come to reject the 
idea of subduction by 1956 in favour of an expanding Earth (new crust 
being created at mid-ocean ridges, as in current plate tectonic theory), 
for a number of reasons including the elimination of certain anomalous 
areas e.g. the Tethyan ocean in continental reconstructions on an Earth of 
reduced radius.
The Expanding Earth hypothesis continued to be a major contender amongst 
theories of global tectonics from 1956 until well into the 1960's, 
alongside plate tectonic theory as we know it today, propelled in no small 
part by Carey's proselytising lecture tours of Europe and North 
America.  Though it has attracted few adherents since that time, the 
expanding Earth hypothesis has generated a small but significant body of 
literature.  Carey himself has published extensively on the subject in 
monographs and as the editor of conference proceedings.  A selection of 
these is as follows:
Continental Drift - A Symposium (1958).  University of Tasmania, Hobart.
The Expanding Earth (1976).  Developments in Geotectonics 10.  Elsevier, 
Amsterdam.
Expanding Earth Symposium (1981).  University of Tasmania.
Theories of the Earth and Universe (1988).  Stanford University Press.
If you can get hold of them, these would be a reasonable starting point if 
you want to find out more.  Certainly the Expanding Earth hypothesis is a 
little bit more than a 'rumor'!
Mark
============================================================
Mark Duffett
Ph.D. student                                                      
Centre for Ore Deposit and Exploration Studies 
University of Tasmania                                       
------------------------------------------------------------
Graeme:  "It's gold ore!"
Tim & Bill:  "Gold ore?!" 
Graeme:  "Yes!  Gold, or, something else."           
The Goodies, 'Gunfight at the OK Tearooms'
============================================================
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Subject: Today on Galileo - November 5, 1996
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 23:36 UT
                        TODAY ON GALILEO
                        November 5, 1996
After successfully studying Callisto yesterday, Galileo spends much of
today observing Jupiter, at a distance of only 875,000 km (or 12 lengths of
Jupiter's radius).  Early in the day, the spacecraft will actually fly
through Jupiter's northern auroral zone.  Some lines of Jupiter's magnetic
field cause plasma (hot ionized gases) to be driven into Jupiter's
atmosphere and cause aurora.  Galileo will for the first time actually pass
through these lines and the imaging camera, UVS, PPR and Fields and
Particles instruments will take measurements together that can help us
understand why the aurora happen.  The imaging camera (visible
wavelengths), NIMS (infrared, to determine atmospheric composition), PPR
(infrared, to determine atmospheric temperature), and UVS (ultraviolet, to
determine chemical makeup) instruments will spend most of the day studying
transition regions between wind belts of different directions.  These will
cover a full Jupiter rotation (10 hours) to measure cloud movement and wind
patterns.  Amalthea will be imaged this afternoon, Jupiter's largest minor
moon, and third closest to the planet.  Amalthea is only 135 kilometers (84
miles) across. The day ends with monitoring of Io's hot spots by NIMS, PPR,
and the imaging camera.
For more information on the Galileo spacecraft and its mission to Jupiter,
see the Galileo home page:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/
     ___    _____     ___   
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|      Ron Baalke     | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |  Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   Pasadena, CA    | I am doing basic research, when
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /|                 | I don't know what I'm doing.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                  | Wernher Von Braun
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Subject: post-doc, metamorphic petrology
From: sainieid@badlands.NoDak.edu (Bernhardt Sainieidukat)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 21:29:11 GMT
POST-DOC RESEARCH POSITION AT THE INSTITUTE OF GEOLOGICAL SCIENCES, MINING 
UNIVERSITY LEOBEN, AUSTRIA
A project entiteled "Granulite-amphibolite facies transitions and ore
deposits in high-T low-P terrains" is being funded by the Austrian
Research Council (FWF). It aims to contribute to the understanding of the
evolution of high-grade terrains and their ore deposits; i.e the polyphase
nature of high-T low-P terrains; the relation between high-grade
metamorphism, tectonics, intrusive and mineralising events; the role of
fluids and magmas in ore deposit genesis. It will include field work in
two areas, in South Africa (Western Namaqualand) and central Australia
(Arunta Inlier), in addition to extensive petrological and isotope
studies. The latter will be done in cooperation with international
laboratories. 
A post-doctoral position is available within the above project. The
successful applicant will have a Ph. D. in geology or equivalent
qualification and experience in metamorphic terrains. He/she should be
prepared to work in remote field areas under trying conditions. 
The salary (before tax) will be ca. US$ 45000/year from which social
insurance contributions, health insurance and taxes will be deducted.
Travel and field expenses are covered seperately. The cananditate will be
based at the Mining University Leoben, a small (ca. 2500 students) but
highly ranked Austrian university, and work in close cooperation with me.
Appointment will be for two years, with a possible extension to three
years total. The position should be filled by January/February 1997. 
Applications comprising (1) a cover letter outlining research interests,
(2) an up-to-date curriculum vitae with a list of publications, (3)
reprints/preprints of recent ones, and (4) the names and addresses of 3
references should be sent to:  Dr. Johann G. Raith, Institute of
Geological Sciences, Mining University Leoben, A-8700 Leoben, Austria by
end of November 1996. 
For further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact:  
Dr. Johann G. Raith
Institut fueŸr Geowissenschaften
Montanuniversitaet 
A-8700  Leoben, Austria
phone...43 (0)3842 402 652
Fax ....43 (0)3842 47016
email: raith@unileoben.ac.at
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Subject: Re: Water down a sink.. which way does it run?
From: derek@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 15:14:18 +1300
In article ,
Lara E. Eakins  wrote:
>In article , haver@dartmouth.edu
>(Rick Haver) wrote:
>
>> I've been told that water at the equator goes straight down and that as
>> you approach the equator the effect is lessened compared to higher latitudes.
>
>If you've ever seen "Pole to Pole" with Michael Palin, they demonstrated
>it when he reached the equator. They filled up a bucket and pulled the
>plug north of the line, and then repeated it south, and then again on
>the line. 
This should be rephrased as "They filmed a local performing a trick 
designed to amaze gullible tourists/BBC documentary makers and results
in the transfer of foreign currency".
The Coriolis effect is quite real and operates on entites the size
of lakes and storm systems.  It cannot be demonstrated with things
the size of sinks and bowls as local effects (the shape of the 
exit hole, the direction the chap turns as he walks away from the 
equator).
You can try this at home - it doesn't matter which hemisphere - 
try all the sinks/bathtubs in your home. The chances are very high
that you will get a variation in swirl direction across your house.
Try filling the sink with only one tap, then try the other tap - 
you may be able to get a difference in swirl direction using the 
same sink and many emptyings.
The physics of this is all written out ad-nauseum in the alt.folklore.urban
FAQ (and on the web-site http://www.urbanlegends.com), as well as in (I 
think) the sci.physics FAQ.
-- 
Derek Tearne. -- Ruapehu Eruption Information at http://url.co.nz/ruapehu.html
Some of the more environmentally aware dinosaurs were worried about the
consequences of an eruption at Ruapehu "If it goes off no one will be skiing
there this year" - they said.
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Subject: Re: info on expanding earth claim sought
From: ba137@lafn.org (Brian Hutchings)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:05:04 GMT
In a previous article, edstrom@Poopsie.hmsc.orst.edu (John Edstrom) says:
I *wish* that there was a FAQ; get the guy's book, though ...
who said that it was expanding logarithmically ?!?...  oh;
I was automatically thinking of exponentials (duh .-)
>I've just heard a rumor that somebody has claimed that the earth has
>been expanding logarithmically and has doubled in diameter and mass
>during the last 100 million years.  The name associated with the claim
>is S Warren Carey.
-- 
You *don't* have to be a rocket scientist.  (College Career Counselor
					     to me, again )
There is no dimension without time.  --RBF (Synergetics, 527.01)
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Subject: HELP!! Questions for Clay Mineralogist
From: "Bill"
Date: 6 Nov 1996 06:14:47 GMT
Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.  No, I am not
cheating on a test, but what better way can I get some answers with
authority.  In responding, please include your name and possibly your
occupation to be referenced.  
Discuss in detail how you would detect all components unambiguously in a
mixture of montmorillonite, vermiculite, and kaolinite.
Discuss the terms dioctahedral and trioctahedral, and substitution in the
octahedral sheet.
Compare the 1:1 clay minerals as to structure, chemical composition, and
geologic occurrence.
Discuss layer charge.
Discuss a reasonable weathering sequence of biotite through one or more
clay minerals.  Tell the structural and chemical compositional changes that
would apply.  Choose either fresh water or seawater in which the weathering
occurs.
Please send your responses to:
wbf7260@netdot.com
Thank you,
A striving clay mineralogist
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