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Newsgroup sci.geo.satellite-nav 30398

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Re: Garmin 12XL: Why havent' we heard? -- gfoley@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gerard Foley)
Re: c-map availability -- an@hamilton.unitree.lv (Alexandr Nikolayev)
Advice on (D)GPS for laptop -- Michael Meehan
Magellan TBXL DGPS -- "Myrt Webb"
Re: EE Backlight Will Stay On Continuously -- Bob <_pmw5_@cornell.edu>
Re: GARMIN 195 Track Log Download. Help! -- lwjames@csn.net (Dr. Lawrence W. James)
Re: Broadcast Differential -- iggy@merit.net (GSW)
Re: 12XL Availability - KMart? -- iggy@merit.net (GSW)
Re: GPS and surveying -- ehrich@minn.net (William Ehrich)
Re: PDOP Software -- "Doug Hogarth"
Re: 45XL and High gain Antenna -- Bob <_pmw5_@cornell.edu>
Re: c-map availability -- David Salonimer
Re: French map datum? -- bpasch@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de (Berthold Pasch)
Re: Eagle Explorer (alarms and waypoints) -- DWBG65A@prodigy.com (Arthur Schwartz)
Re: EE Backlight Will Stay On Continuously -- DWBG65A@prodigy.com (Arthur Schwartz)
Re: long-lat find? -- rcmcc@cc.bellcore.com (Ronald C. McConnell)
Re: Broadcast Differential -- hgoldste@mpcs.com (Howard Goldstein)
Re: Repair costs and Credit cards (was Open letter to Garmin) -- iggy@merit.net (GSW)
Re: Garmin 12xl careful !!!! Voltage info -- wolfgang@dailyplanet.wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht)
Re: NEMA Check sum? -- Tim Hubbard
Re: GPS Antenna Coax length -- diversified_systems@mindlink.bc.ca
Las vacas locas. -- "ROJO-1"
Re: 45XL and High gain Antenna -- iggy@merit.net (GSW)
Re: Broadcast Differential -- iggy@merit.net (GSW)
Re: Garmin 12XL: Why haven't we heard? -- aholliday@msmail3.hac.com (Allen Holliday)
Re: SA4 to G45 - - - Doesn't Work - - - Please Help -- Joe Krantz
Re: Tripmate use on airlines? -- Trip@uab.edu (Trip Farmer)
Re: Trimble Antenna -- Richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk (Richard Mclachlan)
Re: Garmin 12xl careful !!! -- davem@cs.ubc.ca (Dave Martindale)
Re: Broadcast Differential -- Joe Mehaffey
Re: Eagle Explorer (alarms and waypoints) -- dilcher@mindspring.com (Jeff Dilcher)
Re: benchmarks -- Marian Holton
GPS/transceiver interference -- ddj@fc.hp.com (Doug Josephson)
Re: Bearing & distance calc from lat,lon to lat,lon -- ocollard@club-internet.fr (Olivier Collard)
Re: long-lat find? -- Sam Wormley
tripmate qbasic program for all -- grossman@bbn.com (Martin Grossman)
Re: 12XL Availability -- F. Kevin Feeney
Clueless Newbiew Looking for FAQ -- "Randle T. Bain"
Where to Buy 12XL and How Much Does It Cost? -- jrybak@mesa7.MesaState.EDU (James P Rybak)
Re: benchmarks -- bobell@povn.com (Bob Elliott)

Articles

Re: Garmin 12XL: Why havent' we heard?
gfoley@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gerard Foley)
28 Jan 1997 09:20:37 -0500
Martimus (mrubin@sprynet.com) wrote:
: On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:22:22 -0800, Todd Marshall

: >6. Why have we only heard that you may not be able to plug it into your
: >cigarette lighter?
   The posts which claim it works on 5-40 volts dc sure seem to imply it
ought to work from a cig lighter socket.
-- 
Gerry 
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Re: c-map availability
an@hamilton.unitree.lv (Alexandr Nikolayev)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:16:37 GMT
Mark Gillette  wrote:
>I also have the Sony IPS-760 PYXIS.  The only place for maps I have
>found is  http://www.c-map.com/index.htm
>They can be quite expensive though.  If anyone knows of another
>source...?
>-- 
>Mark Gillette
>I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
http://www.unitree.lv/~hamilton/Charts/charts.htm
Alexandr
HAMILTON Global    E-mail: an@hamilton.unitree.lv
Managment Ltd.,    http://www.unitree.lv/~hamilton/
60-518, A.Deglava  Tel: (371) 257-7511
Riga LATVIA        Fax: (371) 257-7511
LV-1035            Mob: (371) 934-4990
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Advice on (D)GPS for laptop
Michael Meehan
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:47:57 -0500
Hello all,
        I am fairly new to the GPS game.  I purchasing a GPS to hook
up to my laptop.  This data will be used in a semi-immersive
virtual-environment.  I would like to ask advice on which system might
be best.  My parameters are:
1 slight tree cover (tree-filled campus) (multi-chanell more=faster)
2 need readings as quickly as possible (multi-chanel more=faster) need
3 accurate readings (need to get Differential capable unit: how to get
                        differential signal?  Purchase service?  Is it
                        already out there?  How do I find out?  How do
                        I set it up myself? What extra equipment do I
                        need?)
4 Need computer interface and a defined way for a computer program to
extract the data (a driver)
Does anyone have comments on accuracy of 2D vs 3D fix? (I don't really
need altitude yet)
I guess what I am asking is if anyone knows of systems I should look
for or avoid.  I think the research budget funding for this piece is
<=$500, but I would like to hear about any system you think suites my
needs.
thanks in advance,
Mike Meehan
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Magellan TBXL DGPS
"Myrt Webb"
28 Jan 1997 14:32:29 GMT
Does anyone have a Trailblazer XL with the differential GPS hooked up? I am
interested in hearing how well it works and what type of differential
correction system is used.
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Re: EE Backlight Will Stay On Continuously
Bob <_pmw5_@cornell.edu>
Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:34:23 -0500
Jeff Kaiser wrote:
> 
> The Eagle Explorer backlight will stay on continuously if the unit is
> hooked up to an external power supply and the Light Delay is set to 240
> sec.  I found this out by accident this morning on the way to work.  I
> hooked up the external power cord (a homemade cobbled version) and set the
> light delay to 240 sec fully expecting to have to hit the PWR button every
> 4 minutes.  I was pleasantly suprised that the light stayed on for my
> entire 1 hour commute.  When Light Delay was set to 5 or 10 seconds the
> unit operated normally (as if no external power was connected) and shut the
> light off in the indicated amount of time.
> 
> Another interesting backlight feature is that when you have external power
> to the unit and you have the light set to 5 or 10 sec anytime you hit a key
> (MENU, MODE, etc.) the backlight comes on so you can see the menus you are
> navigating through.  This is all without hitting the PWR button (supposedly
> the only way to turn on the light).  This most likely works on all settings
> but I only tried 5 and 10.  This feature is very helpful at night and does
> not interfere with the display quality during the day.
> 
> I think both of these features were well thought out and executed, but
> poorly documented in the manual.
Can you set it to 0. If you can, maybe it'll stay on forever.
-- 
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Re: GARMIN 195 Track Log Download. Help!
lwjames@csn.net (Dr. Lawrence W. James)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:46:01 -0700
In article <5cjjs8$g1f@news.istar.ca>, rotorhed@fox.nstn.ca wrote:
>HELP!
>
>I Need to find a way...  Freeware, Shareware, Anyware....  To D/L the
>track log from a Garmin 195.  Has anyone done it?
If you have a Mac, MacGPS at
   http://www.sni.net/~lwjames
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Re: Broadcast Differential
iggy@merit.net (GSW)
28 Jan 1997 16:00:44 GMT
   This information seems to go against the basic understanding I
have of the Coastguard's posistion on the need for DGPS and 10 meter
accuracy.  That is to say that my understanding of the Coast Guard's
service is that they felt the need for 10 meter accuarcy to safely
navigate a ship/boat in a channel. I was under the assumption that
they have indeed implemented a differential service that acomplishes
something very close to 10 meter accuracy for DGPS. Now you people
seem to be telling me that this type of service is not possible
from the Coast Guard or even comercial Differential providers.
   As with the 12XL availablity issue, there seems to be information
being presented that just doesn't add up. I personaly have very little
knowlege of the specifics of any differential service, so I can't
tell who's telling fibs here. If nothing else this is going to force
me to investigate the matter further myself... Sometimes I think these
newsgroups are just around to make me learn more on my own, and not
trust people on the groups... 
In article <32ED7BF4.541@bellsouth.net>,
Joe Mehaffey   wrote:
>This is a VERY good technical description of the limitations of
>Broadcast Differential GPS.  Perhaps this will help users understand WHY
>it is that DGPS removes ONLY the SA error and does NOT improve the basic
>accuracy of a GPS unit.  Thus,  if you  have a handheld GPS that
>advertises 50ft accuracy (exclusive of SA),  then even if you purchase
>DGPS service with 1 meter (3.1ft) accuracy,  you will STILL have a
>system with an error rating of +/- 50ft accuracy capability.  I hope
>this will spare someone the disappointment of getting DGPS and then
>wondering why their Low Cost GPS isnt giving them 1 meter accuracy.
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Re: 12XL Availability - KMart?
iggy@merit.net (GSW)
28 Jan 1997 15:30:39 GMT
    It's truely amazing all of the conflicting information I have
been getting with regards to the 12XL and it's availability. Not
to mention some of the rude people I have been talking too.
    I called Garmin International yesterday and again today. Yesterday
I talked to a gerearl sales information person and was told that they
have no information about who the 12XL has been shiped too, or 
any records at all of who may have ordered them. The best they could
do for me was to give me the name of a local dealer. I can and did
get many names and numbers out of the phone book for loacal dealers.
None of the local stores I went to knew anything about the 12 XL. I
called Garmin back today to talk about the cost of a repair on  various
Garmin products, and while I was on the line I asked about avilability
again. The person I spoke with got very rude with me after I couldn't
understand why no one in there orginization has any records of who 
(retialers) has ordered the 12 XL, or who they have been shiped to.
I asked to speak with the persons supervisor and he told me he didn't
have one, then I asked his name, and he wouldn't give me it, then he
hung up on me. I called directly back and let it go to the operator 
rather then choosing a menu selection. I told the operator of my
experiances and she attempted to put me in touch with the manager of
the person who hung up on me, I waited for some time and eventually
she came back (twice actually) and asked me if I wanted to leave a
message for Mr. Stone(the guy she was trying to transfer me too that
was on the phone). I said no, and told her about what I really wanted
to do, which was/is get information about a retialer that I can contact
that has indeed had a shipment of the 12XLs, and I told her that the
front line person I had spoke with the day before was not very helpfull.
She told me she would put me through to someone in more of a management
posistion in sales... I then was transfered to Jennifer...
   Jennifer was very plesant to me and answered all of my questions
in a way that made sense, and was helpfull, a few of the things she
told me were quite interesting...  Garmin won't give out information
about a specific dealer for a couple differnt reasons... First she
didn't know if it would even be leagal(sounds fair), second they
do not to give any of their dealers any special treatment as far
as directing customers their way...  Both of these are fine answers
and I have no complaints about them, now if the others I had talked
to had just explained it like that I wouldn't have had to speak
with supervisors and such...    She also told me that Kmart is not
a autherized dealer of Garmin International(backs up the woman at
Kmarts information). She told me that Garmin dealers will get their
information about products through that orginzations own sturcture
and that all Garmin dealers do hav the information about the 12XL
and that if your local store doesn't have it, it's because that o
orginization has failed to pass it on, for higher up. I was told 
that if I go to a small dealer that is not a chain I could talk
with the owner or purchaser and if they did not have information
on the avilability of the 12XL they should call Garmin and get it.
At some point Jennifer told me that she didn't think there were more
then about 50 12XLs shiped to the entire USA last week. (if that's
true then half of the 50 people who got them are on this newsgroup)
She gave me the name of 3 large mail order places that are Garmin 
dealers and should be able to take a order for the Garmin GPS 12XL.
I called the one that I was most firmilar with and the indeed had
heard of the GPS 12XL and they were expecting some by the end of
the week. (I ordered one for $249)
     The names of the 3 dealers I got, and there phone numbers...
West Marine 1-800-538-0775, USA Boats 1-800-937-6628, and a place
called Reed(something) 1-800-346-0019. 
   I called the Dealer I am most firmilar with first... I got a
pleasnt sales person named Ashley, and she was very helpfull.  I
asked about there return policy and she stated, "no hassel", I 
then told her I would order one... She took all my information
and told me that they expected to be able to fill the order
on 1-30-97. I asked how many other orders they had, and she checked
and told me about 20, and also told me they were expecting 1400
to be shiped to them on the 30th. She originaly had told me that
they hadn't had any in yet, and was very upfront sounding, as well
as pleasnt. If any of you want to know the name of the place I
called email me and I'll give it to you, I don't want to broadcast
it to the world just yet because it's all just something I heard
on the phone so far...
    Somewhere someone is indeed not being very honest about the 
avalibility of the Garmin GPS 12XL... Who is honest and who is
not remains to be determined...
In article <5cj6oe$rtb@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
GSW  wrote:
>    Somewhere someone is not telling the truth...  Kmart is based out
>of Southeast Michigan, Troy as a mater of fact. I have contacted
>a woman who is named Sara Bishop, she is apparently in charge of
>purchasing for the Sporting Goods departments at Kmart throughout
>the USA. She told me that Kmart does not purchase any products from
>Garmin, and that they do not carry the GPS 12XL. [snip]
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Re: GPS and surveying
ehrich@minn.net (William Ehrich)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:13:41 -0600
> For postprocessing you need to buy mapping receiver 
Or collect the data in a computer. Any minimal computer will do.
>- navigation receivers cannot store raw data needed for postprocessing.
> Anyway you'll definetely need an external antena on a surveying pole -
> there's a dramatic improvement on putting antenna 2-3 meters over the
> ground when under tree canopy. We have even a 7 meters fiberglass pole
> for extreme dense forests.
The antenna is either under trees or not.
- Bill Ehrich
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Re: PDOP Software
"Doug Hogarth"
28 Jan 1997 16:30:53 GMT
If you have Java, have you taken a look at
http://satnav.atc.ll.mit.edu/java/Predictor/Predictor.html?
-- 
Doug Hogarth's Home Page http://www.digitaldaze.com/dougho/
Ken King  wrote in article <32EC957C.63DE@mitre.org>...
> Does anyone know of a source for public domain or shareware software for
> calculating HDOP, VDOP and PDOP based on user specified time and lat/lon
> position using the current satellite constellation?  A listing of
> satellite in field of view would also be nice.
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Re: 45XL and High gain Antenna
Bob <_pmw5_@cornell.edu>
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:07:36 -0500
Enrico Mustillo wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have just purchased a 45XL and one of the extras in the package was a
> high gain antenna.
> 
> The 45XL works brilliant (I am only a GPS novice), but I can not connect
> the high gain antenna to the unit.  The knurl on the BNC connector is
> too large (approx. 0.080".
> 
> Has anybody experienced this problem before.
> 
> Cheers, Rick
No, but...
Just get a BNC elbow. That will fit.
-- 
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Re: c-map availability
David Salonimer
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:35:19 -0600
davecod@northcoast.com wrote:
> 
> I have a Sony Pixus handheld GPS with c-map feature...I would like a more
> detailed chart of my area(shelter cove CA)  Is there anyone who makes this
> size cartridge... or is there any alternative other than to go with my
> underdetailed chart??
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
>       http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet
See http://www.lowrance.com/lowrance/gps/ims/ims.htm
IMS Smartmaps may be compatible with your Sony Pixus. I don't know how
they compare with C-map on detail.
-- 
David Salonimer
mailto:dwsr@dlep1.itg.ti.com
    ) )
 __(_(___
|        |__
|        |_ \
|        | \ \
|        |_/ /
|        |__/
|________|
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Re: French map datum?
bpasch@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de (Berthold Pasch)
Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:33:49 +0100
In article <5c4qkn$jbb@flonk.uk.sun.com>,
jgh@redford.uk.sun.com.antispam (Jeremy Harris - SUN IMP Slough) wrote:
>Anyone know what datum the (excellent) Michelin "yellow" series of
>maps is based on?  I can't find it anywhere round the edges.
>
>Cheers,
>   Jeremy
Don't the French use a completely different coordinate system?
With 400 degrees instead of 360, and Paris (I think Notre Dame) as the
point where the zero degree longitude runs through.
I have seen these coordinates on any French map that I got a hold of 
so far (mostly Michelin 1:200000 road maps, and the 1:100000 topo
maps that are common in France).
I don't know what map datum (i.e. WGS84 or other) they use. If this is
of any relevance at all with regard to their degree system.
With best regards, Berthold Pasch
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Re: Eagle Explorer (alarms and waypoints)
DWBG65A@prodigy.com (Arthur Schwartz)
28 Jan 1997 17:23:24 GMT
SUBJECT: Re: Eagle Explorer (alarms and waypoints) 
"Ronald M. Wilson"  wrote:
>
>
>
>Arthur Schwartz  wrote in article 
>> 
>> Well the manual is wrong on a couple of things. The manual states that 
>> the backlight is adjustable from "0" to 240 seconds when the unit 
itself 
>> goes from 240 to 5 seconds with no "0". 
>
>Art,
>	You're right, but I think the argument about whether the delay 
actually
>goes from 5 to 240 seconds or 0 to 240 is immaterial now.  According to
>Jeff Kaiser's post entitled "EE Backlight will stay on continuously" 
from
>1/24/97, the EE's backlight will stay on indefinitely if you set the 
delay
>to 240 seconds and the unit is on external power.  He tried it with a
>makeshift external power connection and the backlight stayed on.  The
>manual says that it will shut off after 240 seconds even on external 
power.
> While this is an error in the manual, it is an error in your favor.
>
> 
>> Also the manual states that the unit has "Audible tones and sounds", 
the 
>> unit does not have any audible tones or sounds. 
>
>I went back and checked the ALARMS section in my EE manual on pgs. 38-39.
>In my copy it doesn't say anything about audible alarms.  It says "You 
can
>set an arrival alarm to flash a warning message ...".  I took that to 
mean
>the display would have a message flashing on it for an alarm.  Maybe 
yours
>is an earlier version which contained more errors than mine?  I hear 
the
>Lowrance version (Global Nav 200) of the EE is supposed to have audible
>alarms.
>
>[SNIP]
>
>-- 
>Ron Wilson  
>
Hello all,
About the backlight staying on with external power hooked up and the unit 
set to 240 delay, (WRONG) ! I have external power hooked up on mine, I 
even used mine with no batteries in it and it of course showed a full 
charge. But the backlight "DID" go off after 4 minutes. Even Eagle told 
me the backlight will surley go out after 240 seconds with external power,
 so who ever made the post will have prove it and also tell Eagle their 
wrong.
Also, You have a revised manual. If you look at the back cover of your 
manual in the lower right hand corner, you will see a number with the 
word (Rev or Revised) near it. Mine only has the number. 
Later, Art!
Orlando, Florida USA
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Re: EE Backlight Will Stay On Continuously
DWBG65A@prodigy.com (Arthur Schwartz)
28 Jan 1997 17:28:01 GMT
Bob <_pmw5_@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>Jeff Kaiser wrote:
>> 
>> The Eagle Explorer backlight will stay on continuously if the unit is
>> hooked up to an external power supply and the Light Delay is set to 
240
>> sec.  I found this out by accident this morning on the way to work.  
I
>> hooked up the external power cord (a homemade cobbled version) and set 
the
>> light delay to 240 sec fully expecting to have to hit the PWR button 
every
>> 4 minutes.  I was pleasantly suprised that the light stayed on for my
>> entire 1 hour commute.  When Light Delay was set to 5 or 10 seconds 
the
>> unit operated normally (as if no external power was connected) and 
shut the
>> light off in the indicated amount of time.
>> 
>> Another interesting backlight feature is that when you have external 
power
>> to the unit and you have the light set to 5 or 10 sec anytime you hit 
a key
>> (MENU, MODE, etc.) the backlight comes on so you can see the menus you 
are
>> navigating through.  This is all without hitting the PWR button 
(supposedly
>> the only way to turn on the light).  This most likely works on all 
settings
>> but I only tried 5 and 10.  This feature is very helpful at night and 
does
>> not interfere with the display quality during the day.
>> 
>> I think both of these features were well thought out and executed, 
but
>> poorly documented in the manual.
>
>Can you set it to 0. If you can, maybe it'll stay on forever.
>-- 
Hello All,
About the backlight staying on with external power hooked up and the unit 
set to 240 delay, (WRONG) ! I have external power hooked up on mine, I 
even used mine with no batteries in it and it of course showed a full 
charge. But the backlight "DID" go off after 4 minutes. Even Eagle told 
me the backlight will surley go out after 240 seconds with external power,
 so who ever made the post will have prove it and also tell Eagle their 
wrong.
Also, the backlight has no "0" setting at all.
Later, Art!
Orlando, Florida USA
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Re: long-lat find?
rcmcc@cc.bellcore.com (Ronald C. McConnell)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:05:57 LOCAL
Check the USGS Geographic Name Information Service query at
    http://www-nmd.usgs.gov/www/gnis/gnisform.html
It has a lot more than the census data base: bridges, cemeteries, big rocks,...
For Canada, use National Resources Canada
   http://www-nais.ccm.NRCan.gc.ca/cgndb/english/cgndb_lookup.html
Ron McConnell
In article <01bc0cd5$1d5f8d60$cbe0a1cd@bigo.iag.net> 
"James T. Osborne"  writes:>From: "James T. Osborne" 
>Subject: Re: long-lat find?
>Date: 28 Jan 1997 04:41:31 GMT
>William Bowser  wrote in article
><32EB0ADD.102F@america.com>...
>> I know this has been on before but I lost all my bookmarks and need to 
>> find some areas via longitude - latitude and know there is a url that 
>> does that but cannot remembe can someone help please..? Thanks
>> 
>> -- 
>>         <<>>
>> 
>> **The Media's handling of all matters, domestic
>> and foreign,is hopelessly inept and always dangerously
>> misleading...**
>> 
>http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapbrowse-tbl
>You need to look down near the bottom and select United States.
>Then, look down near the bottom for the fields to enter a
>Latitude/Longitude and select a marker.  Select REDRAW MAP.
>Then zoom down to level of detail you need.  You can also have
>a lat long grid put on the map.
>-- 
>Jim Osborne: bigo@iag.net, The_Guy_In_Back
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Re: Broadcast Differential
hgoldste@mpcs.com (Howard Goldstein)
28 Jan 1997 18:27:34 GMT
On 28 Jan 1997 17:26:25 GMT, GSW  wrote:
 :    After re-reading what Sam had said a few posts back, I don't beleive
 : what Joe is telling us is entirely true, or at least it is misleading...
I'm not sure why thus far two people have found Joe's comments false
or misleading.  He can speak for himself but the way I read his
article he simply indicated that differential corrections can't render
a silk purse from a sow's ear.
Stated slightly more "technically" consider two units using the same
antenna, the manufacturer specifies unit A is capable of +/-5 m
precision and unit B is capable of +/-10m, SA is off.  
Now turn SA on.
What Joe seems to have said is that availability of differential
corrections doesn't convert a receiver with unit B's specs into one
with unit A's specs.  Seems an entirely reasonable statement.
...
 : In article <32ED7BF4.541@bellsouth.net>,
 : Joe Mehaffey   wrote:
 : >This is a VERY good technical description of the limitations of
 : >Broadcast Differential GPS.  Perhaps this will help users understand WHY
 : >it is that DGPS removes ONLY the SA error and does NOT improve the basic
 : >accuracy of a GPS unit.  Thus,  if you  have a handheld GPS that
 : >advertises 50ft accuracy (exclusive of SA),  then even if you purchase
 : >DGPS service with 1 meter (3.1ft) accuracy,  you will STILL have a
 : >system with an error rating of +/- 50ft accuracy capability.  I hope
 : >this will spare someone the disappointment of getting DGPS and then
 : >wondering why their Low Cost GPS isnt giving them 1 meter accuracy.
 : 
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Re: Repair costs and Credit cards (was Open letter to Garmin)
iggy@merit.net (GSW)
28 Jan 1997 16:21:03 GMT
    Well I have further updates on the cost of a repair for some of the
Garmin GPSs....
    THey have a flat rate system for out of warranty repairs...
   GPS 45 is currently 80 USA dollars(not too bad in my opion)
       Apparently the price would basicly be the same for GPSs
       like the 38, 40, 45, 45XL, and even the 12XL.
    GPS 175 will cost you $175 for a out of warranty repair... 
      Considering that GPS sells for about $700 that's not bad either...
    I don't know why Maurice was told he should buy a new one, unless
the guy just wanted him to buy a new one and make some money...
In article <5ckv84$ihc@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
GSW  wrote:
)   I don't know what they told Maurice, but from what people have said 
)on this newsgroup, the cost of a rpair is greater then the cost
)of a new GPS, or at least really close... I have never confirmed
)this, but I think I will actually do some checking, as this would
)be a strong deturant for me with regards to purchasing a Garmin.
[snip]
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Re: Garmin 12xl careful !!!! Voltage info
wolfgang@dailyplanet.wsrcc.com (Wolfgang Rupprecht)
28 Jan 1997 10:32:17 -0800
>Also I was told by tech support that the case is also nigrogen filled.
Yea, guaranteed at least 3/4 nitrogen.
I wonder why Garmin doesn't also tell you about the silica bag thats
inside.  Perhaps because that would raise some eyebrows about the
other claims?
-wolfgang
-- 
Wolfgang Rupprecht          
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Re: NEMA Check sum?
Tim Hubbard
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:20:40 -0600
I assume you mean NMEA check sum. If so, xor them like you've done. But,
make sure you don't include the '$' at the beginning of the sentence or
the '*' at the end.
Tim
COUGER GORDON wrote:
> 
> How is the checksum calculated on a NEMA message? I have tired XORing
> the charecters togeather its close but not quit right.
> 
> All help appricatied.
> Gordon
> 
> Gordon Couger Senior Software Specialist
> Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering Dept.  Oklahoma State Univ.
> 114 Ag Hall Stillwater, OK 74075
> gcouger@master.ceat.okstate.edu
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Re: GPS Antenna Coax length
diversified_systems@mindlink.bc.ca
28 Jan 1997 17:06:47 GMT
In article <5ch1mh$ife$1@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>, 
75013.1420@CompuServe.COM says...
>
>You can run cables over considerable distances between GPS 
>antennas and the receiver IF you use the correct cable type. I 
>have run them 1000 feet before, but that takes pricey cable. 
>Also, the super low-loss stuff tends to have a larger diameter. 
>If you really need to go a long distance, get some LMR-xxx cable 
>from Times Microwave. They have several sizes. Whatever you do 
>for GPS, make damn sure that you use 50 ohm cable. Further, I 
>can't stress enough the importance of correct and tight 
>connectors. I have installed dozens of them.
>
>                                ---Bob Gross---
>                           75013.1420@compuserve.com
An interesting aside, I've had a chance to play with a 45XL &  
45std using their supplied antenna on the end of various lengths 
of different coax.  My results:
Coax type	Max usable length(approx.)	connectors
RG-58A/U(reg)	<6'			BNC male/ BNC female
RG-59B/U(reg)	<12'			BNC male/ BNC female
RG-223/U(reg)	<20' 			BNC male/ BNC female
RG-213/U(thick!)>50'			BNC right ang,BNC
					male, N male/fem junc.
					N right ang, N to BNC 
					female adapter.
The tests weren't done in any really scientific sort of fashion, 
although I did try to keep the antenna in the same place outside 
my house for the different cable types.  I could only measure the 
relative losses in the cables by watching the signal bars on the 
Gar Sat display screen, thus my "usable length" figures are my 
best guesses.  I used the Garmin Quad antenna with no 
amplification on the end of a large pole to test the full RG-213 
length. A 30' section (with two less N connectors) gave 
noticeably stronger signal.
It did seem to me that the RG-213 cable seemed to even out the 
signal strengths much better than any of the others. For those of 
you who care,  I used these grades of cable because they were 
available to me cheap (read free) along with  enough styles of 
connectors to make this test worth trying.  
For everyone looking to run out and buy some RG-213 for their 
car/hiking/house setups, be forewarned, the cable is no where 
near as nice to use as the RG58 everyone is used to.  RG-213 is 
about 1/2" thick, and can be awkward to manipulate.  The 
connectors are quite expensive, I was lucky enough have available 
a reasonable selection of N and adapters (including two RG213 
style BNC's).
I would love to find a reasonably inexpensive amplifier to place 
in line with this setup to see how the various cables fare. If 
you're still interested, I set out to try this stuff with a mind 
to the cable lengths I'll need to install my 45XL on a med.size 
boat (40'). I'll probably need a 30'+ run to get from the mast 
down to the wheel house.
Anyone with any comments, questions, or suggestions, please jump 
in!
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Las vacas locas.
"ROJO-1"
28 Jan 1997 18:39:05 GMT

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Re: 45XL and High gain Antenna
iggy@merit.net (GSW)
28 Jan 1997 17:10:34 GMT
   If you travel that route, keep in mind that every connector you
add to a coaxial cable will degrade the signal, at least somewhat...
In article <32EE1638.4472@cornell.edu>, Bob  <_pmw5_@cornell.edu> wrote:
>Just get a BNC elbow. That will fit.
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Re: Broadcast Differential
iggy@merit.net (GSW)
28 Jan 1997 17:26:25 GMT
   After re-reading what Sam had said a few posts back, I don't beleive
what Joe is telling us is entirely true, or at least it is misleading...
   Here is my laymans understanding....
   Say the coast guard has a differential station. It tracks all the
signals from all satellites in view, and determins how much error they
have at the location of the station. This not only takes in to effect
the SA, but also atmospheric condtions from the satellites to the
differential station. The station then broadcasts corrections for
each of the statllites, the DGPS receiver and GPS correct the information
that the GPS is receiving, using the information they get from the
differential station. As long as your reasonbaly close to the 
differential tower, the corrections that you received that included
corrections for atmospheric conditions at the differential stations
should allow you to improve the GPSs over all accuracy beyond that
of just removing the SA induced error. Therefore you can expect
to get improvements beyond what your receiver alone would get if
SA were not in effect...
   Correct me if I'm wrong, because I am seriously considering the
purchase of a DGPS receiver, but I won't do it if I can't get something
that aproachs 10 meter accuracy.
In article <32ED7BF4.541@bellsouth.net>,
Joe Mehaffey   wrote:
>This is a VERY good technical description of the limitations of
>Broadcast Differential GPS.  Perhaps this will help users understand WHY
>it is that DGPS removes ONLY the SA error and does NOT improve the basic
>accuracy of a GPS unit.  Thus,  if you  have a handheld GPS that
>advertises 50ft accuracy (exclusive of SA),  then even if you purchase
>DGPS service with 1 meter (3.1ft) accuracy,  you will STILL have a
>system with an error rating of +/- 50ft accuracy capability.  I hope
>this will spare someone the disappointment of getting DGPS and then
>wondering why their Low Cost GPS isnt giving them 1 meter accuracy.
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Re: Garmin 12XL: Why haven't we heard?
aholliday@msmail3.hac.com (Allen Holliday)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:13:53 -0700
(snip)
> (the term over-calculate is something I made up, there is a similar
> term that is used, but I don't remember what it was...)
(snip)
The term is "over-determined."
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Re: SA4 to G45 - - - Doesn't Work - - - Please Help
Joe Krantz
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:18:47 -0700
Educated guesses:  Gardown and Waypoint speak garmin/garmin.
Tracking with SA4 uses NMEA which is a different baud rate.
- do you have the baud rate set correctly?
You should be able to hookup the  Garmin to a terminal program
(modem program, etc.) and see the NMEA messages coming out
every second. If that doesn't work, then SA4 isn't going to work.
Since GARDOWN and WAYPOINT are working, ask SA4 to download
your waypoints. Which should show SA4 working with the Garmin.
	Joe
Tom Pettit wrote:
> 
> I've got a Garmin 45 with rev 2.41 firmware.  It works fine with
> Waypoint +, and Gardown 7.  But, on both a Toshiba laptop and my
> desktop, I only get the "Aquiring Satellite" window, then a notice that
> nothing was found, even though the 45 is locked onto four or more sats
> and it happily 3Ding.  I've tried GARM/GARM, NEMA/NONE, NEMA/NEMA on the
> garmin settings and G45 and generic NEMA on the SA4 settings.
> 
> Any Ideas?  Delorme has not answered my two emails.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Tom Pettit
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Re: Tripmate use on airlines?
Trip@uab.edu (Trip Farmer)
28 Jan 1997 17:39:46 GMT
>I tried it for the first time last week on a flight from Washington, DC
>to Chicago and it worked beautifully.  It had location, speed, and
>altitude displayed.  Speed and altitude matched what the pilot had
>announced too.
>Rod Levine
Rod,
Are you sure the altitude was the same?  Pressure altitude is not what
a GPS measures.  
Please clarify yourself.  I've found 10% difference in altitudes with
commercial airlines.
Trip
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Re: Trimble Antenna
Richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk (Richard Mclachlan)
Tue, 28 Jan 97 20:00:41 GMT
In article <32EAE278.6DE5@airmail.net> dhoward@airmail.net "David Howard" writes:
> 
> A great combination to be had--Garmin 12XL and a Trimble antenna (with a
> short MCX to BNC adapter cable).
> 
> Any suggestions on the Trimble would be appreciated, or if you have an
> extra you would like to sale.
look at http://www.lowe.co.uk/gpsant.html
That GPS antenna comes with a BNC fitted and is cheaper than the Trimble
anyway
-- 
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Re: Garmin 12xl careful !!!
davem@cs.ubc.ca (Dave Martindale)
28 Jan 1997 10:06:39 -0800
Tim Hubbard  writes:
>Well, I'm not an EE, but how can the 12xl require 10-40vdc and use only
>4 batteries?  That would imply a 5-40vdc requirement, not the 10-40vdc
>that people are reporting their stickers say.
The external and internal (battery) power take different paths.
External power is fed to a voltage regulator that can withstand up to
40 V on its input, but which requires a certain minimum input-output
voltage difference.  In the case of the Garmin units, the internal
circuitry appears to run on 5 V, and the minimum voltage drop across
the regulator appears to be about 2 V, so you need about 7 V on the
external power input to run the unit.  However, you need at least 8.5 V
before the GPS stops drawing power from internal batteries if they are
installed.  Garmin specs 10-40 V, which probably has some safety margin.
The battery power bypasses the regulator above. They are either
connected directly to the circuitry, or power it through a voltage
regulator that has very little voltage drop across it, but can't handle
a wide input voltage range.  The unit operates from battery voltage as
low as about 4.25 V.
The GPS 38 and 40 also lack the wide-range voltage regulator of the 12
and 45, so they can only accept 5-8 V external power.  This means you
can't connect a 38 to 14 V car power, or 28 V airplane power.  However,
you *can* power a 38 from an external 4-NiCd battery pack (4.8 V) or
an external 6 V lead-acid battery, which you can't do with a 12/45.
	Dave
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Re: Broadcast Differential
Joe Mehaffey
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:09:23 -0800
GSW wrote:
> 
>    After re-reading what Sam had said a few posts back, I don't beleive
> what Joe is telling us is entirely true, or at least it is misleading...
> 
No..  Unfortunately,  my statement is  accurate.  DGPS CANNOT MAKE A GPS
RECEIVER WITH BASIC INTERNAL ACCURACY OF 15 METERS BECOME ACCURATE TO
(SAY) 1 METER BY ADDING 1 METER DGPS.
Joe
>    Here is my laymans understanding....
> 
>    Say the coast guard has a differential station. It tracks all the
> signals from all satellites in view, and determins how much error they
> have at the location of the station. This not only takes in to effect
> the SA, but also atmospheric condtions from the satellites to the
> differential station. The station then broadcasts corrections for
> each of the statllites, the DGPS receiver and GPS correct the information
> that the GPS is receiving, using the information they get from the
> differential station. As long as your reasonbaly close to the
> differential tower, the corrections that you received that included
> corrections for atmospheric conditions at the differential stations
> should allow you to improve the GPSs over all accuracy beyond that
> of just removing the SA induced error. Therefore you can expect
> to get improvements beyond what your receiver alone would get if
> SA were not in effect...
> 
>    Correct me if I'm wrong, because I am seriously considering the
> purchase of a DGPS receiver, but I won't do it if I can't get something
> that aproachs 10 meter accuracy.
> 
Dear Iggy,
Well,  your understanding of DGPS is somewhat flawed.  Most of what you
say above is essentially correct,  BUT,  there is no way that the DGPS
signal can improve the MEASURMENT ACCURACY of YOUR gps unit.  All the
DGPS signal can do is eliminate the systematic error (and possibly some
of the atmospheric distortion errors) on the SV signal coming to you. 
Thus,  if ( for instance ) your GPS receiver is specified to have 15
meter accuracy (exclusive of SA) (Please see the specs in your manual.)
then if you get a DGPS service (such as DCI) offering 1 meter DGPS
correction information,  you can expect something like 16 meter maximum
error (about 52ft.).  If you purchase 10 meter correction DGPS
corrections then you can expect errors to about 25meters RMS.  Now about
90+ percent of the time,  your errors will be LESS than 25 meters,  but
here I am talking about what you can expect WITH RESPECT TO
SPECIFICATIONS.  This is MUCH better than the 100 meter RMS errors you
should expect with a standard low cost GPS.
If you want higher accuracy in your GPS,  then you will have to purchase
equipment with higher specified accuracy.  DGPS cannot and does not
compensate for design compromises in low cost GPS units!  
Joe Mehaffey
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Re: Eagle Explorer (alarms and waypoints)
dilcher@mindspring.com (Jeff Dilcher)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:36:52 GMT
DWBG65A@prodigy.com (Arthur Schwartz) wrote:
>About the backlight staying on with external power hooked up and the unit 
>set to 240 delay, (WRONG) ! I have external power hooked up on mine, I 
>even used mine with no batteries in it and it of course showed a full 
>charge. But the backlight "DID" go off after 4 minutes.
So, who is right here?
Here is a repost of the guy who said it would stay on:
--------------------------------------
From           "Jeff Kaiser" 
Organization   Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A.
Date           25 Jan 97 00:34:23 GMT
Newsgroups     sci.geo.satellite-nav
Message-ID     <01bc0a57$3ce98260$38ff26cc@SK1ohvsmoa.net>
The Eagle Explorer backlight will stay on continuously if the unit is
hooked up to an external power supply and the Light Delay is set to
240 sec.  I found this out by accident this morning on the way to
work.  I hooked up the external power cord (a homemade cobbled
version) and set the light delay to 240 sec fully expecting to have to
hit the PWR button every 4 minutes.  I was pleasantly suprised that
the light stayed on for my entire 1 hour commute.  When Light Delay
was set to 5 or 10 seconds the unit operated normally (as if no
external power was connected) and shut the light off in the indicated
amount of time.
Another interesting backlight feature is that when you have external
power to the unit and you have the light set to 5 or 10 sec anytime
you hit a key (MENU, MODE, etc.) the backlight comes on so you can see
the menus you are navigating through.  This is all without hitting the
PWR button (supposedly the only way to turn on the light).  This most
likely works on all settings ut I only tried 5 and 10.  This feature
is very helpful at night and does nt interfere with the display
quality during the day.
I think both of these features were well thought out and executed, but
poorly documented in the manual.
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Re: benchmarks
Marian Holton
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:54:50 -0500
Please note that the term "bench mark", as used by the NGS and other
survey agencys, means a survey mark whose precise elevation is known.  A
bench mark might only have an approximate position.  Horizontal control
stations have precise lat. & long.  (these stations might be called
triangulation, trilateration, intersection, etc. stations - the name
indicates the type of survey technique used to determine their
position).
Return to Top
GPS/transceiver interference
ddj@fc.hp.com (Doug Josephson)
28 Jan 1997 19:31:32 GMT
[ Article crossposted from rec.skiing.backcountry ]
[ Author was Doug Josephson ]
[ Posted on 28 Jan 1997 19:26:07 GMT ]
While playing around with a new GPS receiver this weekend, I noticed
some interference with my avalanche transceiver by coincidence.  It
took me a minute to figure out what was going on.  At first I thought
my transceiver was broken when I switched it to receive to check
somebody's beacon - it was filled with static and sounded very 'sick'.
After I figured it out I could easily affect the transceiver by moving
the GPS receiver toward and away from it.  The beeps still came
through in all cases, but it was fairly corrupted when the GPS was
within a foot or so of the transceiver.
Generally I am going to use GPS only for position fixes occasionally
so the power will not be on all the time; i.e. only when I want a fix
at a waypoint.  But if you use a GPS that is constantly on for
tracking purposes, you may want to turn it off when in avalanche
terrain.  Note that this is only a subjective observation and I don't
know exactly what effect the GPS receiver may have, but I wanted to
let people know about it.  I'd be interested in hearing any more
information from anybody who might know more about this.
--
Doug Josephson  ddj@fc.hp.com  Fort Collins, CO
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Re: Bearing & distance calc from lat,lon to lat,lon
ocollard@club-internet.fr (Olivier Collard)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:55:13 GMT
Robert Thomas  wrote:
>When given two positions by latitude & longitude, I need to be able to calculate the bearing and 
>distance between the two on a spehroid (eg: Clarke_1866, Clarke_1880, WGS_84, etc). Initially, 
>the assumption can be made that these two positions will be in the same hemispheres of latitude 
>& longitude - i.e. South & East.
This a a formula to calculate distance on a sphere.
RAY: ray of the sphere (Earth: mean ray=6371.221 km)
X1: latitude of point 1 in radians (=latitude in degrees*PI/180)
X2: latitude of point 2 in radians (=latitude in degrees*PI/180)
Y1: longitude of point 1 in radians (=longitude in degrees*PI/180)
Y2: longitude of point 2  in radians (=longitude in degrees*PI/180)
distance=acos(sin(Y1)*sin(Y2)+cos(Y1)*cos(Y2)*cos(X1-X2))*RAY
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Re: long-lat find?
Sam Wormley
28 Jan 1997 19:39:24 GMT
Try: http://www.cnde.iastate.edu/maps.html#wpts
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tripmate qbasic program for all
grossman@bbn.com (Martin Grossman)
28 Jan 97 16:05:12 GMT
This is in reply to someone who asked how to do NMEA (XOR) checksums.
Also a few people have asked me for copies of this program, so instead
of sending it to each, I'm including it here (Hope no flames because
of its small size :-)
73's N1MKG
***********************************************************************
*     REM TRIPMATE.BAS by Martin Grossman
*     REM This program runs under DOS's QBASIC
*     REM The resulting file can be used with JNAV to later send
*     REM collected data thru a NULL MODEM into another PC running SA4
*     REM Make sure TRIPMATE is plugged in before starting this program!
*     CLS : PRINT "Enter File Name to Start"; : INPUT a$
*     OPEN "com1:4800,n,8,1,asc,cd0,cs0,ds0,rs,rb4096" FOR RANDOM AS #1
*     OPEN a$ FOR OUTPUT AS #2
*     FOR i1 = 1 TO 7
*         LINE INPUT #1, a$ : a$ = MID$(a$, 2) : PRINT #2, a$; CHR$(13);
*         REM SEND OUT TRIPMATE INITIALIZATION LINES FOR FASTER LOCKUP
*         REM THIS LOWERS LOCKUP FROM 1-2 MINUTES to 5-10 SECONDS!!!!!!
*         IF i1 = 5 THEN GOSUB 9000
*     NEXT i1
*     t = ASC("1")
*100  LINE INPUT #1, a$ : a$ = MID$(a$, 2) : PRINT #2, a$; CHR$(13);
*     m$ = MID$(a$, 4, 3)
*     IF m$ = "RMC" THEN p = 1: GOTO 200
*     IF m$ = "WIZ" THEN p = 2: GOTO 200
*     IF m$ = "GGA" THEN p = 3: GOTO 200
*     IF m$ = "GSA" THEN p = 4: GOTO 200
*     REM If you get here then its a GSV line (1, 2, or 3 lines)
*     p = ASC(MID$(a$, 10, 1)) - t + 5
*     REM If you get 3 lines of output, and then later only get 2 of these
*     REM then the third line stays on your output screen!!!
*200  LOCATE p, 1, 0 : s$ = SPACE$(79 - LEN(a$)) : PRINT a$; s$ : GOTO 100
*9000 LOCATE 15, 1 : a9$ = "IIGPQ,ASTRAL" : GOSUB 9100
*     SLEEP 1
*     REM Don't know why but tripmate needs delay between SA4 output lines
*     LOCATE 16, 1
*     REM This work because I keep my laptop on GMT time and not EST5EDT
*     D0$ = DATE$: T0$ = TIME$
*     d9$ = MID$(D0$, 4, 2) + MID$(D0$, 1, 2) + MID$(D0$, 9, 2)
*     t9$ = MID$(T0$, 1, 2) + MID$(T0$, 4, 2) + MID$(T0$, 7, 2)
*     l9$ = "PRWIINIT,V,,,4226.662,N,07115.558,W,100.0,0.0,M,0.0,T,"
*     a9$ = l9$ + t9$ + "," + d9$ : GOSUB 9100
*     RETURN
*9100 x% = 0
*     FOR i9 = 1 TO LEN(a9$) : x% = x% XOR ASC(MID$(a9$, i9, 1)) : NEXT i9
*     c1$ = HEX$(x%)
*     PRINT "$"; a9$; "*"; c1$; CHR$(13); CHR$(10); CHR$(10);
*     REM Following line will fail once in a while if c1$ result is 1 digit
*     PRINT #1, "$"; a9$; "*"; c1$; CHR$(13); CHR$(10); CHR$(10);
*     RETURN
***********************************************************************
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Re: 12XL Availability
F. Kevin Feeney
28 Jan 1997 21:39:18 GMT
In article <01bc0ccf$7241a6c0$a2c719cf@michi.stratos.net> Michael
Mantoudis, michi@stratos.net writes:
>
>	I checked a local Kmart and a Super Kmart here in Cleveland, Ohio. 
>Neither salespeople in the sporting goods department knew about the 12 XL
>nor did they know who or what Garmin was...  They just still sell the
2000.
>
>Mike
>
>
I had occasion to travel across central NY last night from Ithaca to
Rochester and in the process hit every K-mart and Walmart I went past in
hopes of finding a 12XL. None of the three Kmarts I checked out knew
anything about the 12XL. One didn't have a clue what a GPS was, and
didn't have any in their display case. I thought that unusual for a
pretty large store in a decent market (Rochester). 
At Walmart they didn't have any 12XL's either. But they did have a fair
selection of other units,but it varied store to store. The most
interesting thing I saw was a stocking layout taped to a display case
that they were in the process of setting up. It listed the various
products, and their location on the shelves. They had the Garmin 40
listed (and in stock) but nothing showing the 12XL. They did however show
a place for the Eagle Explorer, but didn't yet have any in stock (else I
might have been tempted...). 
Dicks, a sporting store across CNY, have the Eagle AccuNavs in stock, and
I think the Magellen 2000. They are hoping to have some Eagle Explorers
soon, and have the literature on them, but the folks I talked to couldn't
tell me if they were eventually going to stock the Explorer. They stock
other Eagle products, so it would seem reasonable to assume they'll fill
out the line, but no confirmed reports. 
Anyone spots a 12XL in the fingerlakes region, I'd love to hear about it.
:-) 
Kevin, WB2EMS
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Clueless Newbiew Looking for FAQ
"Randle T. Bain"
Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:59:42 -0600
Sorry to waste bandwidth guys.  I am looking for a GPS reciever to take
along on my motorbike travels.  It must be able to take some abuse
(vibration from scooter) and be reasonable water proof (rain, not
submersion).  It would be lovely to have a built in map data base.
It will be used more of a "where in the hell am I" than a route
planner.  Need for waypoints, alltitude, etc.  is minimal.  Any
suggestions would be appreciated.  Please reply via email as I do not
frequent this group often.
randle_t_bain@myself.com
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Where to Buy 12XL and How Much Does It Cost?
jrybak@mesa7.MesaState.EDU (James P Rybak)
26 Jan 1997 12:48:09 -0700
Can anyone tell me the names of some mail order dealers who have the 
12XL and how much it costs?
Thanks.
Jim Rybak
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Re: benchmarks
bobell@povn.com (Bob Elliott)
Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:41:15 GMT
National Geodetic Survey benchmarks Data Sheets can be searched by
area at:
http://WWW.ngs.noaa.gov/FORMS/ds_area.html
Enter Lat-Long in requested format and up to 20 Data Sheets for
benchmarks within a 2 mile radius are returned.
If more than 20 are found, area is reduced until there are <20.
Note: if your search returns nothing, (no BM's found within 2miles)
tweak the coordinates abit E/W or N/S.  There may be several just
outside your search area.
These sheets even give precise directions for locating in the real
world.
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Downloaded by WWW Programs
Byron Palmer