Newsgroup sci.physics 204774

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Subject: Re: probability is relativistic -- From: Christopher McKinstry
Subject: Re: Mass gets bigger -- From: kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer)
Subject: Re: Have you had an experience of seeing your double, doppelganger or someone elses, please email also if you have. I would like to hear your experience. -- From: sgordon@cs.sonoma.edu (Scott Gordon)
Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric? -- From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Subject: Re: Spectrums in prisms -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: Re: Help -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: Re: Help -- From: kgloum@news.HiWAAY.net (Kelly G. Loum)
Subject: Re: why a plane mirror reverse left to right not up to down -- From: JoeBeets@usa.pipeline.com (JoeBeets)
Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!) -- From: zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric? -- From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!) -- From: weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria Weineck)
Subject: Re: On Religion: Can we at least agree on this truth? -- From: Harold
Subject: Re: Pope votes for Evolution (was Re: Creation VS Evolution) -- From: Koen van Vlaenderen
Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution -- From: Koen van Vlaenderen
Subject: Re: WARNING: Education can damage your brain ! -- From: charliew@hal-pc.org (charliew)
Subject: Re: When did Nietzsche wimp out? (was: Sophistry 103) -- From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!) -- From: zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Subject: p53 ; Using viruses to kill cancer cells; SCIENCE 18OCT96 -- From: Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: Larry Richardson
Subject: Isn't anyone curious. FLT proof. -- From: James Harris
Subject: Re: How Much Math? (Was: Re: How much to invest in such a writer?) -- From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: what Newton thought -- From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: can value of pi change? -- From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: When did Nietzsche wimp out? (was: Sophistry 103) -- From: William Grosso
Subject: Re: How Much Math? (Was: Re: How much to invest in such a writer?) -- From: matts2@ix.netcom.com (Matt Silberstein)
Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric? -- From: mlyle@scvnet.com
Subject: Re: minimun energy of a photon -- From: d.cary@ieee.org (David A. Cary)
Subject: anomoly of clustering in early universe 1NOV96, Astroph. -- From: Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium)
Subject: Fermat's Last Theorem -- From: James Harris
Subject: Re: what Newton thought -- From: jmc@Steam.stanford.edu (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Does drafting slow the front rider? -- From: Rick and/or Sara Baartman
Subject: Re: Pope votes for Evolution (was Re: Creation VS Evolution) -- From: cc16712@cdsnet.net
Subject: Re: Can Science Say If God Exists? -- From: Akron Soul Brother
Subject: Re: faster than light travel -- From: GLBRAD01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (GLBRAD01)
Subject: Re: How Much Math? (Was: Re: How much to invest in such a writer?) -- From: jmc@Steam.stanford.edu (John McCarthy)
Subject: This Week's Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 93) -- From: baez@math.ucr.edu (John Baez)

Articles

Subject: Re: probability is relativistic
From: Christopher McKinstry
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:06:29 -0600
Klaus Kassner suggested that picking pi as your random number would
violate my assertion that probability is relative...
pi is a symbol... not a number... however when you write it out, you
again see the relativistic effect... faster people write out more,
slower people write out less... i would have a better chance of guessing
what a slow person wrote than i would a fast person. RR is just confined
to the linear srting that is pi... the effect is the same.
-- 
-K. Christopher McKinstry : Homepage
 http://www.clickable.com/employees/chris/index.html
-Join In The World's Largest AI Effort
 http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html
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Subject: Re: Mass gets bigger
From: kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 22:59:16 GMT
Klaus Kassner (klaus.kassner@physik.uni-magdeburg.de) wrote:
: Ken Fischer wrote:
: >         Modern textbooks teach mass is invariant.   And this
: > answers the question about how much gravity a moving mass causes.
: No. Because it is energy, not mass, that causes gravity, if you keep mass
: invariant.
        But it is only certain "energy" that contributes to
gravitational "attraction", the orbital velocity of the
Earth does not contribute.
        But the heat energy within the Earth does, but in
the case of the Earth, that isn't a lot.
        And there is another component of the contribution
to gravitational "attraction", it is a function of the
past history of the worldlines of the individual particles
that make up the Earth.
        But it _is_ mass itself that determines certain
parameters in the resulting interactions. 
: >         "Mass increase with velocity" used to be taught, but
: > it was found to be misleading, and according to General Relativity,
: > to be incorrect. 
: It is not incorrect. The whole question is one of semantics. If you
: set mass equal to E/c^2, mass isn't invariant. If you set it equal
: to energy/c^2 in the rest frame, it is.
       I can only suggest any physics textbook written in
the last 40 or 50 years.
       I can only measure mass in it's own rest frame.
Ken Fischer 
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Subject: Re: Have you had an experience of seeing your double, doppelganger or someone elses, please email also if you have. I would like to hear your experience.
From: sgordon@cs.sonoma.edu (Scott Gordon)
Date: 27 Oct 1996 23:28:01 GMT
In article <54u97m$ogd@argentina.earthlink.net>, katlady@earthlink.net
(katlady) wrote:
> I used to live in Dayton OH, and several people swore they saw me 
> driving a certain car and working at a particular bank.  Not only did I not 
> own a car like that, I've never worked at a bank!  I would have shrugged 
> it off, had it been only one person, but it was several.
Once while driving across Colorado I saw someone at a distance through the
window of a convenience store who looked so much like me that I drove into
the lot and walked in to meet him.  Even when I got right up to him it was
just like looking into a mirror... I couldn't believe my eyes... and neither
could he!  It was a very spooky experience.  We had the same facial and
body build, same hairstyle, same glasses, same expressions, everything.
We even compared driver's licenses and we looked identical on those too.
-- 
Vahl Scott Gordon
Assistant Professor                        O/           o~    o_O/
Dept of Computer Science                 o/|   _______|_______   \
Sonoma State University                   / \   |           |    |\
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Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric?
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 23:35:59 GMT
In article <32710BA3.E35@cfer.ualberta.ca> Paul Skoczylas  writes:
 > > c = (299792458 m/s) (1209600 s/fortnight) (1 furlong/201.168 m)
 > >   = 1.802617... x 10^12 furlongs/fortnight
 > 
 > My computer, when I ask for 100 digits of accuracy, gives me:
 > c=1802617499785.254 furlongs per fortnight
 > (Hence, I presume that it's not a repeating decimal, but finite.)
Your computer has a very strange idea about 100 digits of accuracy.  The
answer is:
    1802617499785.254115962777380100214745884037222619899785
where the 42 digits after the decimal point repeat.  (42 because that
is the period of 1/127, which is a factor of the denminator.  The factor
11 gives nothing new and the factor 144 in there can be found in the
numerator.  And actually the repeating starts five digits before the
decimal point; the reason should be obvious.)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
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Subject: Re: Spectrums in prisms
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 27 Oct 1996 23:58:40 GMT
"Henry Felce"  wrote:
>What is the relationship between the speed of light in a medium (with n
>not= 0) and the frequency/wavelength of the light? Does this give rise to
>the spectrum produced by a prism?
>
The speed of light in a medium is lightspeed divided by the refractive 
index (assuming no complications like birefringence or anomalous 
dispersion).  The variation of refractive index with wavelength is the 
dispersion of the medium.  The more the refractive index varies with 
wavelength, the more spectral spread will result from otherwise identical 
 systems.  Compare crown and flint glasses used for making corrected 
doublets and triplets (lenses).
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm  (lots of + new)
 (Toxic URLs! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
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Subject: Re: Help
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 28 Oct 1996 00:01:31 GMT
Karthkikeyan Sinnadurai  wrote:
>I need help to solve this problem.
>
>Three forces are applied to an object:
>
>F = 10 N east, F = 20 N north 45 degree West, F = 15 N east 30degre South
> 1              2                              3
>Calculate the resultant force on the object. Find a fourth force that 
>will keep the object in epilibrium.
>
>Can you send that to my e-mail please (a2zelect@cam.org)
Progressively add the vectors to a resultant.  How is your trigonometry?
You can always resolve each vector into two orthogonal components, add 
those in kind, then collapse the final pair into a single vector (if that 
is easier).
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm  (lots of + new)
 (Toxic URLs! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
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Subject: Re: Help
From: kgloum@news.HiWAAY.net (Kelly G. Loum)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 00:04:00 GMT
Karthkikeyan Sinnadurai (a2zelect@cam.org) wrote:
: I need help to solve this problem.
: Three forces are applied to an object:
: F = 10 N east, F = 20 N north 45 degree West, F = 15 N east 30degre South
:  1              2                              3
: Calculate the resultant force on the object. Find a fourth force that 
: will keep the object in epilibrium.
: Can you send that to my e-mail please (a2zelect@cam.org)
Imagine the force vectors as arrows with a definite direction and length. 
To solve the problem, you are not allowed to change the direction or
length, but you are allowed to move the arrows around in space.
We need to add the vectors. You do this by placing them end for end. That
is, place the end of one at the beginning of another.
So take the three arrows in the above problem and place them end for end
without changing their direction or length.
The "sum" vector of these three would be a vector that starts at the start
of the first vector in your chain, and ends at the end of the last vector
in your chain.
Vectors can be described in polar coordinates, or in rectangular
(Cartesion) coordinates.
Use cartesion coordinates to add your vectors. You need simply add all the
X lengths, all the Y lengths, and all the Z lengths to get the X,Y,Z of
the resultant vector. For example:
 4, 0, 0   - X vector
 0,16, 0   - Y vector
 0, 0,-2   - Z vector
---------
 4,16,-2   -resultant vector
This is the total force on the object. A force that will perfectly oppose
this force is simply the vector whose coordinates are each the opposite
direction.  For example the opposite vector of a vector with coordinates
(4,16,-2) would be (-4,-16,2). 
If your instructor wants the answer in polar coordinates rather than
cartesion then you'll have to use some trigonometry. You'd better ask him
which is acceptable. 
Kelly Loum
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Subject: Re: why a plane mirror reverse left to right not up to down
From: JoeBeets@usa.pipeline.com (JoeBeets)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 19:35:01 GMT
Why are left and right local but not up and down?
>stephanie  wrote:
>>Why does a plane mirror reverse left to right but not up to down?
>>
>>Stephanie
>>
>>
>Because up and down are global concepts, whereas left and right are
>local concepts.  These local concepts depend on the persons position
>relative to some object.
>Hope that helps.
>Casey
    /lllllllll\ 
      (.) (.) 
         ^        JoeBeets
     \___/  
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Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!)
From: zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 00:27:50 GMT
zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu (Michael Zeleny) wrote:
>>>>Unfortunately for you, this medium promotes
>>>>the preservation and reproduction of your utterances in a way that
>>>>serves as a natural remedy against prevarication and dissimulation.
brian artese :
>>>If only it were a remedy against verbal padding and inflated diction.
Zeleny:
>>Padding and inflation implies superfluity.  I welcome any suggestions
>>of conveying the same message more concisely.
moggin@nando.net (moggin) writes:
>   "Anything you say can and will be used against you."
This is clever but hardly synonymous with the original point.  You are
missing the qualification, the explanation, and the point of relevance.
Cordially, - Mikhail | God: "Sum id quod sum." Descartes: "Cogito ergo sum."
Zeleny@math.ucla.edu | Popeye:   "Sum id quod sum et id totum est quod sum."
itinerant philosopher -- will think for food  ** www.ptyx.com ** MZ@ptyx.com 
ptyx ** 6869 Pacific View Drive, LA, CA 90068 ** 213-876-8234/874-4745 (fax)
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Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric?
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 00:21:56 GMT
In article <54r1t1$jpl@news.fsu.edu> jac@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes:
 > >           ....      but I favor the word "mile" (an elegant word
 > >that has been in English use for at least 1000 years) over "kilometer" 
 > >(a cumbersome word that has been around only about 100 years).
 > 
 >  True, which is why the slang "klik" will migrate from military to 
 >  civilian use once the US is fully metrified.
I find this always extremely amusing, the US tendency to shorten words
(and sentences) as much as possible.  At least here in the Netherlands
everybody always says "kilometer" and never have I heard a complaint
that the word was too long, cumbersome, or whatever.  The only common
abbreviation of the metric measures is the "kilogram" which is abbreviated
to "kilo".
The first time I was in the US the first traffic sign I saw had only the
text "PED XING".  It took me some time to discern the meaning (first I
had to realise that it was not pidgin Chinese)...
But about going metric, the last country (except the UK) I have been that
has gone metric lately is Malta.  When I was there the first time (about
1972) they had their own non-metric, non-imperial units, however at that
time they were already linked to the metric units.  The last time I was
there (about 1990) they were completely metric.  I never have seen any
problems with the system there.
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
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Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!)
From: weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria Weineck)
Date: 27 Oct 1996 17:24:08 GMT
Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
: weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
: >Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
: >>weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
: >>>Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
: >>>>weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
: >>>>>Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
: >>>>>>weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
: >>>>>>>Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
: >>>>>>>>weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
: >>>>>>>>>Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
: >>>>>>>>>>weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
: >>>>>>>>>>>It is very rare that physicists submit to humanities journals; 
: >>>>>>>>>>>if you are suggesting that the article should have been sent 
: >>>>>>>>>>>out to another physicist, I whole-heartedly agree. As things 
: >>>>>>>>>>>stand, however, the hoax proves that the grad student whom 
: >>>>>>>>>>>A.Ross let judge the article didn't know much about either 
: >>>>>>>>>>>science or literary theory -- and what does that prove? 
: >>>>>>>>>>That the postmodern "authorities", whose idiotic theses Sokal 
: >>>>>>>>>>cites and purports to sustain with parodic arguments, are full 
: >>>>>>>>>>of shit.  Is that good enough for you?
: >>>>>>>>>No. What a silly thing to suggest. I cannot think of any 
: >>>>>>>>>philosopher whose sentences cannot be made to look silly by 
: >>>>>>>>>taking them out of context; when it comes to sentences spoken
: >>>>>>>>>off the record, as it were, in a matter outside their field, 
: >>>>>>>>>it's so easy that only someone rather desperate for a point 
: >>>>>>>>>would stoop so low. You're Erkenntnisinteresse (you understand 
: >>>>>>>>>I'm using the term ironically) is running away with you.
: >>>>>>>>Your logical ineptitude is showing again.  That anyone can be made to
: >>>>>>>>look stupid on the evidence of a single sufficiently decontextualized
: >>>>>>>>quotation, does not entail that no single quotation can serve as a
: >>>>>>>>sufficient proof of its author's stupidity, as witness le "sottisier"
: >>>>>>>>de Bouvard et Pécuchet.  In effect, Sokal does for the postmodern
: >>>>>>>>booboisie what Flaubert did for the French bourgeoisie.
: >>>>>>>Nonsense. Sokal's hoax proves exactly nothing about Derrida. It proves 
: >>>>>>>something about Social Text. Your work isn't done, and if you rely on 
: >>>>>>>the likes of Sokal to do it, you are wimping out.
: >>>>>>Derrida's assertion cited by Sokal, about the Einsteinian constant not
: >>>>>>being a constant, proves two things.  Firstly, he is ageometretos, and
: >>>>>>hence not a philosopher.  Secondly, he is given to pronouncing on the
: >>>>>>basis of ignorance, and hence not a critic.  Why would you doubt that?
: >>>>>Simple. It does not follow, and you haven't produced an argument. A) you 
: >>>>>have no idea what he meant. B) Even if you had an idea what he meant and 
: >>>>>even if your idea were correct, it wouldn't follow that he's not a 
: >>>>>philosopher, since "philosophy" is not defined as "that body of work that 
: >>>>>exhibits knowledge of Einstein." C) a critic can be ignorant of many 
: >>>>>things he pronounces on, as long as he doesn't pronounce on them _qua_ 
: >>>>>critic in his field.
: >>>>Here is an argument.  A) I have a good idea what Einstein meant, and
: >>>>an equally good idea that any reasonable interpretation of Derrida's
: >>>>comment is incompatible with Einstein's meaning.  
: >>>Please share your insight, then.
: >>It is not insight, but learning, which is not something I can share with
: >>a passive audience.  I recommend the Feynman Lectures as a good starting
: >>point in this matter.
: >Feynman explains what Hippolite meant? That's fascinating. Are you sure?
: Are you suffering from ADD?  The point is to address Einstein's meaning.
The point is that you can only determine whether Derrida's meaning is 
incompatible with Einstein's meaning if you know what Derrida's meaning 
is. Elementary logic. So do you or don't you have an interpretation of 
what either Hippolite or Deridda were saying?
: >>>>                                                     B) Since Derrida 
: >>>>aims to debunk Platonism, since the understanding of Platonism depends
: >>>>on the understanding of geometry, and since Einstein is the wellspring
: >>>>of modern geometry, Derrida's ignorance automatically condemns his
: >>>>project to failure.  
: >>>This is fun, but it's not an argument. 
: >>It is an argument, and a logically valid one.  Under the circumstances,
: >>I would be willing to let frêre Jacques off the hook if only he had
: >>evinced minimal acquaintance with Euclid, never mind Lobachevsky or
: >>Riemann.  Alas, it is not forthcoming.
: >Logical, hm. You would have to prove that
: >a) an understanding of Platonism does indeed depend on an understanding 
: >of geometry; wild assertion no. 1
: >b) that Einstein is indeed Platonism for the 20th century -- here, you'd 
: >run into trouble with Russell Turpin and others
: >c) that Derrida "debunks" Platonism or intends to do so -- here, we'd 
: >only need a quote, so you wouldn't have to think much
: >d) that all continental philosophy after Kant is cognizant of modern math.
: In order to prove a), I need do no more than invoke the principle of
: interpretive charity -- if Plato says that an ageometretos must be
: disqualified, he is to be taken at his word, so long as your aim is to
: understand Plato.  To address b) independently of your predictably
: inaccurate reading, I need not do any more than restate the point:
: Einstein's work on the geometry of the space-time manifold yields the
: basis of present-day understanding of physical geometry.  Curiously
: enough, I have already satisfied c) in my conversation with Brian
: Artese by quoting Derrida and citing Plato to the contrary.  As
: regards d), to adapt your own idiom, you are confusing an intellectual
: enterprise with its institutionalized idiots.
a) qualifications for philosophers vary greatly within Plato's oeuvre. I 
can understand that you would pick the one agreeable with your 
Erkenntnisinteresse. However, if you were to direct your attention to the 
Phaedrus, you will see a different definition of philosopher emerge.
b) is irrelevant
c) a disagreement does not constitute a debunking
d) on the contrary, that is your domain. Are you disqualifying all 
philosophers from philosophy who have not proven to you that they know 
all they could about geometry, yes or no?
: >>Do you think it is a coincidence that the best portrayal of postmodern
: >>criticism to date was presented by Nabokov as early as 1962?  
: >I would find it highly surprising, yes. I never thought Nabokov was a 
: >good critic, btw, even though he's a great writer. Like Kleist or 
: >Buechner in that regard.
: Excellence of portrayal is a matter of strength and precision in
: observation and representation, rather than of the critical virtues
: of analytic meticulousness in interpretation and explanation.
That is hardly a response. You have yet to bolster your claim as to what 
Nabokov achieved.
: >The image
: >>of a logorrhetic, vituperative, frustrated uranist, equally ignorant of
: >>Euclid and Shakespeare, may fit Barthes a little bit better than it does
: >>Derrida.  Then again -- I know not what really turns on the eminent
: >>grand-daddy of decon.
: >How odd. Barthes of all people, "vituperative," "frustrated"? That most 
: >loving of critics?
: As loving as Charles Kinbote, and equally preoccupied with conspiring 
: against the author.  As regards his frustration, it is my understanding 
: that fulfillment does not conduce to throwing oneself under a truck.
As far as I know, he didn't "throw himself under a truck," but was hit by 
a truck. Loving literature is not the same as loving the 18th century 
conception of authorship. 
: >>>>                      C) The copyright laws imply that any critical
: >>>>comments appearing in print of symposium proceedings are subject to
: >>>>the speaker's release of publication rights and hence carry the
: >>>>presumption of ex cathedra pronouncements.
: >>>Perhaps they do; that such is enforced, is, however, amply disproven. 
: >>>Just witness Wolin's mistranslation of Derrida and subsequent publication.
: >>On the basis of personal experience with intellectual property laws, I
: >>assure you that such enforcement by the owner is always possible among
: >>the signatories to the Berne convention.
: >For someone harping on logic, this is quite below par. It might be 
: >possible to enforce; that does not imply that it has been enforced. So?
: So if Derrida had been cognizant of revealing that he was full of shit, 
: he would not have allowed published dissemination of this revelation.
He might give his readers more credit than they deserve. Then again, he 
might only be interested in those readers who do deserve minimal credit.
: >>>>>>As you know, I have done my work and need not rely on Sokal to do it.
: >>>>>>Nonetheless, if I wanted to cite a professional opinion that Derrida
: >>>>>>was a charlatan, I would have brought up Chomsky.
: >>>>>I don't know this at all. I'm still waiting for you to exhibit a 
: >>>>>rudimentary understanding of Derrida's argument in "Cogito." As long as 
: >>>>>you can't tell us what it is you object to, your objections won't be 
: >>>>>taken seriously. 
: >>>>In the beginning of our exchange I told you the rules of engagement --
: >>>>each thrust is to be followed by a parry and vice versa.  By continuing
: >>>>to argue, you implicitly accepted the conventional rules.  If you wish
: >>>>to make a request, I will consider it after you reply to my last article
: >>>>point by point.
: >>>The last exchange failed. A reasonable reaction to failure is to try 
: >>>something else.
: >>I will reasonably consider trying something else after you reply to my
: >>last article point by point.
: >In other words, you're wimping out?
: In my opinion, true wimpery is exemplified by the party who excused
: herself from following the rules she had accepted from the start.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinions. Let us all agree to note, 
though, that you refused to exhibit understanding of an essay you claim 
to have read and you claim to object to on philosophical grounds; your 
reasons may be what you say they are.
Silke
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Subject: Re: On Religion: Can we at least agree on this truth?
From: Harold
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:33:02 +0100
Harvey Harte wrote:
> 
> Siegfried wrote:
> >
> > Andrew Lias  wrote:
> > >Kevin B Black wrote:
> > >>
> > >> In article <543g4a$k93@news.proaxis.com>, Siegfried  wrote:
> > >> >Here is my contention:
> > >> >
> > >> >With regard to the existence of a god (like the Christian one) there are
> > >> >three general options: 1. God does not exist, 2. God exists and is
> > >> >malevolent, 3. God exists and is benevolent.
> > >> >
> > >> What happened to option 4? God exists and is indifferent.
> > >
> > >Let's not forget polytheism. :-)
> >
> > I was only talking about one god (see above).  Besides, polytheism is an
> > impossibility if the god or gods are to be omnipotent beings (there could
> > only be one "most powerful being").
> >
> > -Siegfried
> And his name is Alexander The Great.  God can exist only as an idea,
> there is no way to prove its metaphysical existence.
> --
>                 Harvey E Harte
>         (free speech proponent)
>         Victoria, Canada
>         homepage: http://www.islandnet.com/~harv
indeed, but the metaphysical existence of God can be experienced as
thoughtless self. This is known to some.
This experience also transcends science: the observer and the observed
are one and the same. No scientific proof can exist for the existance of
God. Science acquires a division into a world and an observer. The
consciousness of such an observer is dualistic, while God-consciousness
is non-dualistic. This experience is existence and non-existence in one.
Koen van Vlaenderen 
Venlo, the Netherlands
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Subject: Re: Pope votes for Evolution (was Re: Creation VS Evolution)
From: Koen van Vlaenderen
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:37:10 +0100
Steve Jones - JON wrote:
> 
> Volker Hetzer wrote:
> >
> > PS: funny thread this, I hope it'll live long
> 
> Well now the Pope comes in .. this article from the Newspaper
> 
>      THE POPE said yesterday that Christian faith and theories about
>      evolution were compatible, providing these were spiritual as well
> as
>      material in nature.
> 
>      The acknowledgment, made for the first time, was contained in a
>      message sent by the Pope to a convention on evolution in Rome
>      Scientists welcomed it as a major step forward in the Church's
> project
>      to close the centuries-old gap with the study of science.
> 
>      The Pope's message to the convention at the Pontifical Academy of
>      Science read: "Today new discoveries lead one to acknowledge that
>      the theory of evolution is more than a hypothesis."
> 
>      But the Pope said that of the two interpretations of evolution,
> only the
>      spiritual one was reconcilable with Christianity. "If the human
> body has
>      its origins in pre-existing living matter, the soul was created
> directly by
>      God."
> 
> Well this mean that all the Catholics have to now get behind the theory
> of evolution. Its only the soul bit to go.
I wish you much success
-- 
Koen van Vlaenderen
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: Koen van Vlaenderen
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:48:39 +0100
David Cunill wrote:
> 
> On 21 Oct 1996 08:23:02 -0700, vanomen  wrote:
> >Matthew 7:1  Judge not that you be not judged
> 
> looser
Well,
This statement (Judge not that you be not judged) is in itself
a judgement. Mathew's judgement is: others are making judgements.
Actually, this is one of the most fascinating paradoxes I
know. To improve it, it would be like this:
judge each other as one-self.
Koen van Vlaenderen
Venlo, The Netherlands
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Subject: Re: WARNING: Education can damage your brain !
From: charliew@hal-pc.org (charliew)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 01:05:58 GMT
In article <5arfnRAZU2cyEw3y@sthbrum.demon.co.uk>,
   Keith Stein  wrote:
>Fred Hoyle writes:-
>
>        "Education ensures that knowledge which is factual 
and correct
>carries forward from one generation to the next,and because 
of the
>forward momentum of this process technology too moves 
unerringly
>forward. Trouble comes,however,when what we think to be 
knowledge is
>actually no more than illusion. Education then serves to 
transmit
>illusions from generation to generation, with the situation 
getting
>worse all the time. A mild illusion in one generation 
becomes less mild
>in the next,each generation impressing on its successors a 
growinging
>belief in the illusion. As a mathematician might put it, the 
education
>system is unstable against the spread of incorrect beliefs; 
wrong ideas
>eventually become so deeply entrenched as to become 
unshakeable dogma.
>This is basically why, sooner or later, all nations and 
cultures go into
>decline: the burden of dogma builds up more and more until 
its weight
>causes the social structures to collapse.
>
>        The situation in this respect is worse today than it 
ever was in
>the past,because the educational process at higher levels 
nowadays
>continues to the age of about twenty-five the age at which 
advanced
>students complete the requirements for the Ph.D. degree. By 
this time it
>is too late............."
>
>Extract taken from:- "Our Place in the Cosmos" by Fred Hoyle 
and Chandra
>Wickramasinghe,Phoenix Paperback,1993.
>
>
>Too true Fred!
>
>keith stein
>
>
Societies have periodically collapsed in ancient times as 
well.  This collapse may have nothing to do with the level of 
technology in existence at the time.  However, it almost 
surely has everything to do with the level of bureaucracy in 
existence at the time.  Big bureaucracies tend to ride rough 
shod over common sense.  Once this happens, societies will 
fall under their own weight!
===================================================================
For some *very* interesting alternate viewpoints, look at
http://www.hamblin.com
Return to Top
Subject: Re: When did Nietzsche wimp out? (was: Sophistry 103)
From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 01:06:53 GMT
In article <54vvpp$pkb@news-central.tiac.net>, nanken@tiac.net (Ken MacIver) writes:
>patrick@gryphon.psych.ox.ac.uk (Patrick Juola) wrote:
>
>>What metaphysics does science assume?
>>In what way is this assumption "a fundamental tenet"?
>>How does an assumption of metaphysics instantly imply a regard for
>>the issues of "who created the universe" or "for what purpose was
>>the universe created"?
>
>Science assumes an essential reality (we don't know what it is) that
>may be determined if we just collect emnough data and figure it out.
>If you substitute "how" for "who" in your final question above you
>will begin to figure things out.
>
There is quite a difference between "how" and "who".
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"
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Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!)
From: zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 01:10:51 GMT
rafael cardenas huitlodayo (raf379@bloxwich.demon.co.uk) writes:
>Silke-Maria Weineck wrote:
>>>>>>Michael Zeleny (zeleny@oak.math.ucla.edu) wrote:
>>>>>>>Derrida's assertion cited by Sokal, about the Einsteinian constant not
>>>>>>>being a constant, proves two things.  Firstly, he is ageometretos, and
>>>>>>>hence not a philosopher. 
>>Logical, hm. You would have to prove that
>>a) an understanding of Platonism does indeed depend on an understanding
>>of geometry; wild assertion no. 1
>Could any Academician have _disagreed_ with that assertion? The gadfly's
>paragraph above contains the requisite clue, does it not?
To be fair to Silke, this point requires more argument, the beginning
of which I suggested elsewhere.  Just because Heidegger made some wild
claims on behalf of philosophical superiority of German language does
not imply that his writings cannot be comprehended in translation.
Cordially, - Mikhail | God: "Sum id quod sum." Descartes: "Cogito ergo sum."
Zeleny@math.ucla.edu | Popeye:   "Sum id quod sum et id totum est quod sum."
itinerant philosopher -- will think for food  ** www.ptyx.com ** MZ@ptyx.com 
ptyx ** 6869 Pacific View Drive, LA, CA 90068 ** 213-876-8234/874-4745 (fax)
Return to Top
Subject: p53 ; Using viruses to kill cancer cells; SCIENCE 18OCT96
From: Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 00:41:39 GMT
--- quoting in parts SCIENCE 18OCT96 pp 342-343 ---
 WILL A TWIST OF VIRAL FATE LEAD TO A NEW CANCER TREATMENT?
ONYX Pharmaceutical...
....
"What I like is how clever it is,"...
...
"It's been a long-held fantasy to find an [anti-cancer] virus."
   Even more exciting is the fact that the virus targets cells with
ineffective p53. The loss of inactivation of this gene is thought to
contribute to the development of 50% of all human cancers, including
such common ones as breast, colon, and lung cancers.
....
[picture]
 Discriminating virus. Lacking the protein that shuts down p53, the
mutant adenovirus can't reproduce in p53-bearing cells (top), but
destroys cancer cells lacking p53 (bottom).
--- end quoting in parts SCIENCE 18OCT96 pp 342-343 ---
 I like to comment on the above panacea. For according to my theory the
above is just that a panacea. And there can be many expensive
treatments that will come here and then pass away after some years of
use.
  For one, notice that in the above it all hinges on the assumption,
brazen assumption
 "  The loss of inactivation of this gene is thought to contribute to
the development of 50% "
 To me, you can write another complete encycl Americana on cancer and
hide it in that statement.
  But let my state what will be a general trend in medical cancer
science, IMHO, and applying my theory that Cancer = virus missile to
sabotage the host machinery = virus is a integral part of the human
genome and that a virus is merely the alarm clock of humanity that is
programmed to end the life of a specific individual at a specific time.
  We notice these little alarm clocks such as in my half dozen casio
watches. They sometimes go off when we did not program them to go off
and then I find out that I had slept in bed with the watch and
accidentally changed the beeping alarm.
  You see according to my theory most every human disease has a virus
at the root cause. Some think diseases such as sickle cell are root
caused by genetics. But if we go back far enough, we can find that
sickle cell when first appearing in humanity came from a viral missile.
** to prove this, one needs only find a case of new sickle cell disease
and find a virus that created that new sickle cell.
  You see, viruses are the human genome and that we need them for
reasons not obvious to us, but my guess is that viruses are the steps
of change of the human genome itself.
  I even proposed some weeks or months ago that sex was first created
on Earth from viruses. Virus injection system turned into a penis and
the host cell that is receptive to the virus eventually turned into the
female site. The origin of sex was from viruses.
  So to mapp the Human Genome and to be as precise and accurate as
possible would be to mapp all of the viruses that afflict humans and
all of the beneficial bacteria that we would extinct if they extincted.
  So what are viral diseases and why do they afflict us? Most all human
cancers according to my theory are  a virus missile that replaces the
host protein machinery and produces rogue proteins or rogue cell, a
cancer cell which spreads. Why would the virus do this?  A virus has no
mind? No a virus does not have a mind, but is programmed just as my
casio watches are programmed to beep. When a virus meets a host and
that host has some biochemistry inducive of launching the viral
missile, then the Human Genome which includes all the human viruses has
"fate knocking on the door" and it is the end time, the time to die.
  (Here an interesting connection is the lemming mass suicides, some
say they sense overpopulation, but I bet under scrutiny there is a
virus that is a timekeeper "to die" acting in lemmings as it acts in
humanities genes.)
  Here I have strayed. So I will try to recap and summarize. The ONYX
quest may find a nice drug that may work for 5 , 10 or 20 years but
then will fail because the drug itself- a virus has mutated and so that
it is no longer beneficial but causes cancer. And if ONYX makes big
bucks in say 5 years of use, when it is reported that the world has a
new virulent causing cancer because of this drug, they may be sued for
treble all the money they made in the first 5 years.
  As I stated often in several posts. Cancer will never be cured
because we are cancer, cancer is our expression of change and the price
we pay for change is that many of us are given a short beep to death by
cancer. And that the best we can do with Cancer is alleviate and treat
and the best treatment is physics means such as radiology.
That bears repeating:  The best treatments of cancer will always be a
intimate close association with physics, of x-rays and other radiology.
Why is this? Because according to my theory Cancer will be here as long
as humans are here and that the purpose of cancer is of a alarm clock
of the Human Genome. Some people have to die of cancer so the whole
human stock can stay viable. And a alarm clock is a physics phenomenon,
thus the attack on treating cancer is maximal with that of a physics
treatment -radiology.
  You know, dying ain't really so bad. It is the ultimate sleep. And I
wish the drug companies would spend some of their millions on
advertising to people that , hey, dying is often better than living.
  So to summarize: 
  The drug above of using a virus will not work in the long term
because a virus is a piece of the Human Genome itself and its purpose
is not to ever be lassoed by scientists but its purpose has its own
very own will and purpose to make and cause changes in the Human
Genome. Simply put, any virus under lasso will mutate out and away from
its confines
  And , according to my theory, Cancer is the virus, so how are you
going to fight fire with fire?
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: Larry Richardson
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:05:40 -0800
Louis Savain wrote:
> 
>   Sorry, that's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying that the traveling
> twins first accelerates away (1) from the earth bound twin, then
> applies negative acceleration (deceleration) (2) to come to a "stop",
> then accelerates (3) toward the earth bound twin and again decelerates
> (4) to come to a final stop.  That's two equal and opposite
> accelerations going away and two equal and opposite accelerations
> coming back.  Unless I'm missing something that is obvious to others,
> it seems that the net total acceleration is zero.  The 4 of them
> cancel each other out.  This could not be the reason for the time
> dilation, IMO.
> 
Every time the traveller accelerates to create a net velocity with
respect to the clock being used for comparison without a
counterbalancing equal acceleration by that clock, the diparity between
clocks becomes greater.  A crude analogy would be to have two cars at
the same place with identical mileage on their odometers, then driving
one of them a few miles away.  You couldn't get their odometers to match
once again by driving the car that had moved back to meet the car that
hadn't moved even though the movement exhibited some symmetry.
Larry Richardson
Return to Top
Subject: Isn't anyone curious. FLT proof.
From: James Harris
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 08:38:46 -0800
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------75EA61EC5B50
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just two pages of simple algebra.  Won't take any time to look at.
The attached file is in Write format.
JSH
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--------------75EA61EC5B50--
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Subject: Re: How Much Math? (Was: Re: How much to invest in such a writer?)
From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 01:15:51 GMT
In article <550ab2$fgk@panix2.panix.com>, +@+.+ (G*rd*n) writes:
>| ...
>
>matts2@ix.netcom.com (Matt Silberstein):
>| In your example where do you "formulate" the concepts involved? I
>| understand that you respond to event and make reasonable judgements
>| about time to impact. But I don't see any formulation involved. I can
>| see how one could go from driving, to intuiting that there are rules,
>| to trying to rigorously describing those rules. But I can't see how
>| you can develop general principles of acceleration and motion without
>| using calculus.
>
>The original issue was whether Newton could be "understood"
>without Calculus.  In the case of "formulate", I didn't
>know what was meant, so I asked.  Its relevance to
>"understand" is another question.  Probably, "understand"
>is as much a moving target as "properly formulate."
>Postmodernistically, there's apparently no there there.
>
As you may recall, you claimed that one can understand the planetary 
model without calculus and I asked you few questions about it.  Never 
seen an answer, though (perhaps my post got lost).
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"
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Subject: Re: what Newton thought
From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 01:19:08 GMT
In article <550b2h$na3@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>, lew@ihgp167e.ih.att.com (-Mammel,L.H.) writes:
>In article ,   wrote:
>
>>That's not science, just the well known phenomenon of influence by 
>>authority.  Human relations, in other words.  The bottom line is 
>>simply, does F= ma involve or depend on an absolute frame.  The answer 
>>is no.  The rest are musings.
>
>Here was Richard Logan's question:
>
>>>So, even prior to Einstein's work, it was understood that there was no 
>>>absolute motion, no reference frame that could be claimed to be 
>>>absolutely at rest?  ...
>
>So are you saying that "it was understood", whether or not
>any actual people understood it? Since they should or could
>have understood it?
>
It was understood (by the physicists) that there is no absolute 
reference frame and no absolute rest in Newtonian physics.  
Check F = ma again, in case you've any doubts.
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"
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Subject: Re: can value of pi change?
From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 01:23:22 GMT
In article <550d1q$suv@herald.concentric.net>, Hitech@cris.com (Hitech) writes:
>In article <54u957$bf1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
>Jeff Candy  wrote:
>>
>>exp(i pi) = -1 has no intrinsic physical content.  e=mc^2 does.
>>This is not to say that exp(ix) is an unimportant function in the 
>>physical sciences.  
>
>Great explanation!  I take it from your response there is no reasonably
>fundamental physical understanding of e^(i Pi) = -1 or else you would have
>provided it.
>
Why do you think there should be a physical understanding.  This is a 
mathematical statement, not a physical one.
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"
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Subject: Re: When did Nietzsche wimp out? (was: Sophistry 103)
From: William Grosso
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:28:01 -0800
meron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
> 
> There is quite a difference between "how" and "who".
> 
Not if we assume that meaning is invariant under rotation. 
Cheers,
Andy
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Subject: Re: How Much Math? (Was: Re: How much to invest in such a writer?)
From: matts2@ix.netcom.com (Matt Silberstein)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 01:25:51 GMT
In talk.origins +@+.+ (G*rd*n) wrote:
>| ...
>
>matts2@ix.netcom.com (Matt Silberstein):
>| In your example where do you "formulate" the concepts involved? I
>| understand that you respond to event and make reasonable judgements
>| about time to impact. But I don't see any formulation involved. I can
>| see how one could go from driving, to intuiting that there are rules,
>| to trying to rigorously describing those rules. But I can't see how
>| you can develop general principles of acceleration and motion without
>| using calculus.
>
>The original issue was whether Newton could be "understood"
>without Calculus.  In the case of "formulate", I didn't
>know what was meant, so I asked.  Its relevance to
>"understand" is another question.  Probably, "understand"
>is as much a moving target as "properly formulate."
>Postmodernistically, there's apparently no there there.
>
It does depend on what you mean by "understand". One of the principle
that I use to understand both science and art it I try to answer the
following questions: 
1) what are the antecedents to this work, 
2) what "problem" is the "author" trying to solve, 
3) what did the "author" do to solve the problem, and 
4) what works are based in turn on this work.
This is probably a modern or even pre-modern way of examining Lit, but
I make no claims to PoMo'ness. Nor do I claim this is an exhaustive
set of question nor that they are universially applicable. But it is a
start. 
So my question is, can you understand the answers to these question
without calculus? I think you can get a reasonable understanding of
much of #1 without calculus. I don't think you can get more than a
superficial answer to the others without it. In particular, the answer
to 3 is, in some sense, calculus.
Matt Silberstein
-------------------------------------------
Pooka: n. A mythical beast. Fond of rum pots, crackpots, and how are you Mr. Wilson?
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Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric?
From: mlyle@scvnet.com
Date: 28 Oct 1996 01:18:11 GMT
p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote:
>> >: I liked that comment about rounding error during conversion, given 
>> >: that the bulk of the US was originally surveyed with chains, which 
>> >: would kink, and with measurements made to the nearest link  
>> >: (100links to a 66' chain, but 80 chains to the mile, 
>> >: a quasi-metric system). 
>> 
>> Just to add a little unwanted fuel to an unneeded fire, I have
>> to recall the famous survey baseline carried through by Mason and 
>> Dixon.  This was apparently the single most accurately surveyed line of 
>> any length in the US, until the advent of satellite Geosurveys in the 
>> 60's.
>> 
>> Mason and Dixon were of course, British colonial surveyers....
>> 
>
>I have actually made and used such a chain,
>and a surveyors assistant is still often called a "chain-man"
On the other end of the spectrum is the surveying done in the Western US. 
A common method was to tie a rag to a wagon wheel and count the 
revolutions as one was driven along.  It is rumored that the surveyor 
often took a bottle of spirits along to make the wagon ride more 
comfortably.  Looking at the noticably "thick and thin" sections on a 
map, I tend to believe the rumor.  Surveying is one of the few fields 
(along with sports officiating) where mistakes are preserved, rather than 
corrected.
George Lyle
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Subject: Re: minimun energy of a photon
From: d.cary@ieee.org (David A. Cary)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 16:44:47 -0700
In article <51kc4l$aga@thorn.cc.usm.edu>,
lrmead@ocean.st.usm.edu (Lawrence R. Mead) wrote:
+[snip]
+: The uncertainty principle relates to measuring the values of variables
+                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+: rather than the values that they can take.
+                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+
+What - operationally - is the difference ??
Operationally, one may measure that a particle has a position (x) 20 mm
above the table. The uncertainty principle relates to how accurately (dx)
(+-1 mm ? +-1 nm ?) that can be measured.
The Heisenberg uncertainty principle(s)
  dE*dT =< hbar
  dx*dp_x =< hbar
say nothing about what particular Energy, Time, Position, and Momentum will
be measured. It only states to what accuracy (dE, dT, dx, dp_x) they can be
measured.
Some people believe that particles and photons actually do have some exact
position, momentum, etc., but they just cannot be measured exactly. Others
believe that the uncertainties are inherent in the properties of matter and
energy.
Please email me a copy of any response you post (my newsfeed is unreliable). Anyone want a summary of the email response I get ?
--
David Cary
Future Technology, PCMCIA FAQ.
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Subject: anomoly of clustering in early universe 1NOV96, Astroph.
From: Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 01:03:55 GMT
--- quoting in part SCIENCE 18OCT96 ---
Instead, as the observers report in th 1 November ASTROPHYSICAL
JOURNAL, the galaxies are grouped in discrete structures -- perhaps
filaments, sheets, or walls.
--- end quoting in part SCIENCE 18OCT96 ---
 This anomoly is not new news but more of the mystery. Of course the
Big Bangers hate this news because it trashcans their theory, dumbos
holding on as long as possible before they abandon the sinking ship.
  Of course in the Atom Totality there are 3 different ages in the 5f6
alone and so structure is predicted in an Atom Totality Universe.
  But how far can I go on structure in an Atom Totality? Recently I
wrote the 3 levels of matter organization according to Maxwell
Equations -- Coulomb force which gravity the old faker law is subsumed.
Then there is the Electric Motor organization in M.E. EM (not by
coincidence that em is the reverse of abbrev of m.e.). And I posted
that astro bodies want to become perfect Electric Motors and then there
is the third level of organization that of Electric Power Plant, ( I
called it Elec Generator at first.) Here, radioactivities force comes
in partnership with EM and I suspect the center of galaxies have this
Power Plant design. Here is a prediction of the Atom Totality Universe
and the Electric Motor = astro body theories.
  There will be found galaxies that are connected to each other and
that they have a central galactic center much like our Sun with other
galaxies revolving around the Galactic sun center much as our planets
do. And when these are discovered, some will be discovered and thought
of as having formed too early in the Big Bang, but of course the Big
Bang was a pile of manure anyway. And when they are discovered it will
be noticed that they seem to disobey gravity, and so many physics
idiots will jump in with filling them with their black and brown and
worm hole lunacy. But what in fact is seen is the force of EM on a
galactic scale and we know that EM is 10^40 stronger than gravity, the
fake force gravity.
   Here is a nifty trivia question worth a physics doctorial thesis. We
know that EM is 10^40 stronger than gravity. So, how many times have
black holes been invoked in astronomy when one can replace that
supposition of a black hole with just ordinary EM going on and it
appears powerful physics not because of a lurking black hole but rather
the strong energy is there because it is some form of astro EM which we
are to immature in our physics to know well enough yet.
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Subject: Fermat's Last Theorem
From: James Harris
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 08:57:21 -0800
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------429198B21E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The more impossible something is, often the more attractive it can
become.  Although, Wiles proved FLT.  The fact that he did so with a
long and complex proof made it still enticing to chase after the simple
proof that supposedly doesn't exist.
I've found what I believe may be that proof first found by Fermat
himself.  But, I depend on others to confirm because it is necessary to
know that I'm not deluding myself.  Anyway, it's a lot more fun that
way.
This file is three pages long and in Write format.  Shouldn't be hard to
read.  If it can't be read or downloaded, I'd appreciate hearing that
and I'll toss out a text version.
James Harris
--------------429198B21E0
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--------------429198B21E0--
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Subject: Re: what Newton thought
From: jmc@Steam.stanford.edu (John McCarthy)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 01:45:16 GMT
Matti Meron includes:
     It was understood (by the physicists) that there is no
     absolute reference frame and no absolute rest in Newtonian
     physics.  Check F = ma again, in case you've any doubts.
Newton's laws of motion don't require an absolute reference frame, but
these aren't all the laws of physics.  Additional laws of physics
might involve an absolute reference frame.  The Michelson-Morley
experiment of 1885 was an attempt to find such a frame.  The cosmic
background microwave radiation gives what appears to be an absolute
frame, and some fast talking has been required to show that it isn't
one.
-- 
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/
During the last years of the Second Millenium, the Earthmen complained
a lot.
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Subject: Re: Does drafting slow the front rider?
From: Rick and/or Sara Baartman
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:00:46 -0800
someone wrote:
>cause there will be no separation ( and no need to REATTACH)
>with tear drop shapes. The flow will be laminar everywhere.
Say what? Many misconceptions here. First, At anything above a crawl, a 
bicycle in air is nowhere near laminar, no matter how well streamlined. 
Second, teardrop shape is not an optimum aerodynamic shape. (Did you know 
that the shape of a falling drop of water is like a sphere flattened on 
the 'front'?) Third, laminar flow is not desirable anyway. Turbulence 
reduces drag. That's why a golf ball has dimples.
--
rick
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Subject: Re: Pope votes for Evolution (was Re: Creation VS Evolution)
From: cc16712@cdsnet.net
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:51:39 GMT
mkluge@wizard.net (Mark D. Kluge) wrote:
>In article <326F27EA.78BC@eurocontrol.fr>, Steve.Jones@eurocontrol.fr says...
>>Well now the Pope comes in .. this article from the Newspaper
>>
>>     THE POPE said yesterday that Christian faith and theories about
>>     evolution were compatible, providing these were spiritual as well
>>     as material in nature.
>>     The acknowledgment, made for the first time, was contained in a
>>     message sent by the Pope to a convention on evolution in Rome
>>     Scientists welcomed it as a major step forward in the Church's
>>     project to close the centuries-old gap with the study of science.
>What acknowledgment was "made for the firsst time"? Catholic acceptance of 
>evolution has been widespread for many years. The problem was Church 
>insistence on monogenesis, the belief that humanss are descended from a single 
>pair, rather than polygenesis, which is favored by most scientists. 
>Monogenesis is easier to reconcile with the doctrine of original sin. I didn't 
>see anything on monogenesis in the article summary. So what exactly was 
>acknowledged for the first time?
>Mkluge
Do a web search for 'vatican information service'.  The pope's message
can be seen in the area for Oct. 23.
Regards,
Stoney
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Subject: Re: Can Science Say If God Exists?
From: Akron Soul Brother
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 21:11:29 -0800
Myke Greywolf wrote:
> 
> Jerry (starway@pilot.infi.net) wrote:
> >    Higher science can indeed say that God exists.As we look at the
> > entire spectrum of possibilities in the universe, we see that our light
> > speed is only one light speed out of an infinite series. We see that our
> > three dimensions of distance and one dimension of time is also only
> > four dimensions within an infinite series.
> >    Thus we are three dimensional man attempting to understand a total
> > universe with nearly infinite dimensions. What are the other
> > dimesnsions? Where are the other dimensions?
> >    Let us look at the past. Einstein felt that if we moved faster than
> > the speed of light we would enter the past. Yet, that is not true. There
> > is no enough energy in the universe to maintain the past.What is
> > maintained? The memory of the past is maintained.How do we get to the
> > past? We don't need a space ship all we have to do is die.
> >   Thus in death we cross the light speed barrier. In death we become
> > part of the memory of yesterday. This is the means of reincarnation.
> > The memory of the person becomes the being. The memory of man within
> > the universe becomes the man in flesh.
> >   Now we look for God. The collective memory of all life becomes life
> > and thus God exists across the light speed barrier as a space time
> > property of the universe which produces man and beast. To learn more
> > of my work look at alt.christnet.theology
> 
	This is pretty stupid.
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Subject: Re: faster than light travel
From: GLBRAD01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (GLBRAD01)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 96 20:38:02 EST
In article <3270B8C1.1A1D@citicorp.com>
"Robert. Fung"  writes:
>
>Richard Andrew Bryan wrote:
>>
>> You are indeed correct.  I read in an issue of "popular Mechanics" that
>> the speed of light is indeed a limit (in the sense of calculus) meaning
>> that the velocity can be approached from both sides but never reached.  At
>> the speed of light mass becomes undefined or infinite.  At subluminal
>> speeds mass is a positive quanitiy while at superluminal speeds, mass
>> becomes a negative quantity.  The problem is that negative mass hass never
>
>
>    In Einstein's 1905
>    SR paper, he develops the coordinate transforms first,
>    and gets the length and time dilations. This defines an
>    EM interferometry of space and time,
>    then
>    he asks "what happens to EM laws in these coordinates"
>    and gets the Doppler effects, aberration, intensity
>    relations.
>
>    Then he says that since you can take any ponderable [neutral]
>    mass and put a small charge on it, the SR EM relations will hold
>    for neutral matter also. From this he gets the mass
>    dilation amd E=mc^2.
>
>    But does this only applies to a classical (composite) masses
>    since a neutron isn't a neutron when it's charged ?
>
>
> > been found and that negative mass would imply negative energy.  These
> > theories need more discussion.
> >
> > Richard Bryan (MECH 9T7)
> > On 20 Oct 1996 atwilson@traveller.com wrote:
> >
> > > In <3262a326.23679365@news.villagenet.com>, aklein@villagenet.com
>writes:
> > > >Tardyons, of course.  Tachyons have to be slowed to the speed of
> > > >light.
> > >
> > > I was under the impression that tachyons went faster than light in
>their
> > > medium by definition. If they were slowed down, then they would no
>longer
> > > be tachyons. - I think.
Would not a tachyon universe be nothing more than a mirror reverse image of
our own universe? Where standing still was very close to moving at the
speed of light and moving through space very fast would be the equivalent
of our standing still (hypothetically standing still, that is)?
If matter can never get up to the speed of light from this side of the
mirror, and tachyons can never get down to the speed of light from the other
side of the mirror, then doesn't it stand to reason that everything there is
on both sides of mirror exists at the speed of light? Within the horizon of
light? As we exist right here on Earth within the horizon of Earth, a horizon
we can see but can never catch up to.
GLB
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Subject: Re: How Much Math? (Was: Re: How much to invest in such a writer?)
From: jmc@Steam.stanford.edu (John McCarthy)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 02:08:51 GMT
Newton's Principia does not use calculus for deriving Kepler's laws.
People formerly thought he derived the laws using calculus, but more
recent studies conclude that Newton really used the geometric models
in which Principia is couched.  The mathematics is more difficult than
if he had used calculus.  One would have to be quite fanatical about
doing things the original way to teach students to derive Kepler's
laws in Newton's way.
The usual modern derivation starts with gravity proportional to the
product of the masses and inversely proportional to the square of the
distance and derives Kepler's laws.
Newton went the other way according to a recent article by
V. I. Arnold' in (I think) _Mathematical Intelligencer_.  From the law
of areas he inferred that the forces were central, and then he proved
that the only law that would give the other two laws was the inverse
square.  He also calculated the effects of other power laws.
-- 
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/
During the last years of the Second Millenium, the Earthmen complained
a lot.
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Subject: This Week's Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 93)
From: baez@math.ucr.edu (John Baez)
Date: 27 Oct 1996 18:17:25 -0800
This Week's Finds in Mathematical Physics - Week 93
John Baez
Lately I've been trying to learn more about string theory.  I've always
had grave doubts about string theory, but it seems worth knowing about.
As usual, when I'm trying to learn something I find it helpful to write
about it --- it helps me remember stuff, and it points out gaps in my
understanding.  So I'll start trying to explain some string theory in
this and forthcoming Week's Finds.
However: watch out!  This isn't going to be a systematic introduction to
the subject.  First of all, I don't know enough to do that.  Secondly,
it will be very quirky and idiosyncratic, because the aspects of string
theory I'm interested in now aren't necessarily the ones most string
theorists would consider central.  I've been taking as my theme of
departure, "What's so great about 10 and 26 dimensions?"  When one
reads about string theory, one often hears that it only works in 10
or 26 dimensions --- and the obvious question is, why?
This question leads one down strange roads, and one runs into lots of
surprising coincidences, and spooky things that sound like coindences
but might NOT be coincidences if we understood them better.   
For example, when we have a string in 26 dimensions we can think of it
as wiggling around in the 24 directions perpendicular to the
2-dimensional surface the string traces out in spacetime (the "string
worldsheet").  So the number 24 plays an especially important role in
26-dimensional string theory.  It turns out that
                 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 + ... + 24^2 = 70^2.  
In fact, 24 is the only* integer n > 1 such that the sum of squares 
from 1^2 to n^2 is itself a perfect square.  Is this a coincidence?
Probably not, as I'll eventually explain!  This is just one of
many eerie facts one meets when trying to understand this stuff.
For starters I just want to explain why dimensions of the form 8k + 2 
are special.  Notice that if we take k = 0 here we get 2, the
dimension of the string worldsheet.  For k = 1 we get 10, the dimension
of spacetime in "supersymmetric string theory".  For k = 3 we get 26,
the dimension of spacetime in "purely bosonic string theory".  So these
dimensions are important.  What about n = k and the dimension 18, I hear
you ask?  Well, I don't know what happens there yet... maybe someone can
tell me!  All I want to do now is to explain what's good about
8n + 2.
But I need to start by saying a bit about fermions.  
Remember that in the Standard Model of particle physics --- the model
that all fancier theories are trying to outdo --- elementary particles
come in 3 basic kinds.  There are the basic fermions.  In general a
"fermion" is a particle whose angular momentum comes in units of
Planck's constant hbar times 1/2, 3/2, 5/2, and so on.  Fermions satisfy
the Pauli exclusion principle --- you can't put two identical fermions
in the same state.  That's why we have chemistry: the electrons stack up
in "shells" at different energy levels, instead of all going to the
lowest-energy state, because they are fermions and satisfy the exclusion
principle.  In the Standard Model the fermions go like this:
        LEPTONS                                     QUARKS
electron        electron neutrino         up quark          down quark
muon            muon neutrino             strange quark     charm quark
tauon           tauon neutrino            top quark         bottom quark
There are three "generations" here, all rather similar to each other.  
There are also particles in the Standard Model called "bosons" having
angular momentum in units of hbar times 0,1,2, and so on.  Identical
bosons, far from satisfying the exclusion principle, sort of like to all
get into the same state: one sees this in phenomena such as lasers,
where lots of photons occupy the same few states.  Most of the bosons
in the Standard Model are called "gauge bosons".  These carry the 
different forces in the standard model, by which the particles interact:
    ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE          WEAK FORCE         STRONG FORCE
    photon                          W+                  6 gluons 
                                    W-
                                    Z  
Finally, there is also a bizarre particle in the Standard Model called the 
"Higgs boson".  This was first introduced as a rather ad hoc hypothesis:
it's supposed to interact with the forces in such a way as to break the
symmetry that would otherwise be present between the electromagnetic
force and the weak force.  It has not yet been observed; finding it would
would represent a great triumph for the Standard Model, while *not*
finding it might point the way to better theories.  
Indeed, while the Standard Model has passed many stringent experimental
tests, and successfully predicted the existence of many particles which
were later observed (like the W, the Z, and the charm and top quarks),
it is a most puzzling sort of hodgepodge.  Could nature really be this
baroque at its most fundamental level?  Few people seem to think so;
most hope for some deeper, simpler theory.
It's easy to want a "deeper, simpler theory", but how to get it?  What
are the clues?  What can we do?  Experimentalists certainly have their
work cut out for them.  They can try to find or rule out the Higgs.
They can also try to see if neutrinos, assumed to be massless in the
Standard Model, actually have a small mass --- for while the Standard
Model could easily be patched if this were the case, it would shed
interesting light on one of the biggest mysteries in physics, namely why
the fermions in nature seem not to be symmetric under reflection, or
"parity".  Right now, we believe that neutrinos only exist in a
left-handed form, rotating one way but not the other around the axis
they move along.  This is intimately related to their apparent
masslessness.  In fact, for reasons that would take a while to explain,
the lack of parity symmetry in the Standard Model forces us to assume
all fermions acquire their mass only through interaction with the Higgs
particle!  For more on the neutrino mass puzzle, try:
1) Paul Langacker, Implications of neutrino mass,
http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/~www/neutrino/jhu/jhu.html 
And, of course, experimentalists can continue to do what they always do
best: discover the utterly unexpected.  
Theorists, on the other hand, have been spending the last couple of
decades poring over the standard model and trying to understand what
it's telling us.  It's so full of suggestive patterns and partial 
symmetries!  First, why are there 3 forces here?  Each force goes along
with a group of symmetries called a "gauge group", and electromagnetism
corresponds to U(1), while the weak force corresponds to SU(2) and the
strong force corresponds to SU(3).  (Here U(n) is the group of n x n
unitary complex matrices, while SU(n) is the subgroup consisting of
those with determinant equal to 1.)  Well, actually the Standard Model
partially unifies the electromagnetic and weak force into the
"electroweak force", and then resorts to the Higgs to explain why these
forces are so different in practice.  Various "grand unified theories"
or "GUTs" try to unify the forces further by sticking the group SU(3) x
SU(2) x U(1) into a bigger group --- but then resort to still more
Higgses to break the symmetry between them!
Then, there is the curious parallel between the leptons and quarks in
each generation.  Each generation has a lepton with mass, a massless or
almost massless neutrino, and two quarks.  The massive lepton has charge
-1, the neutrino has charge 0 as its name suggests, the "down" type
quark has charge -1/3, and the "up" type quark has charge 2/3.  Funny
pattern, eh?  The Standard Model does not really explain this, although
it would be ruined by "anomalies" --- certain nightmarish problems that
can beset a quantum field theory --- if one idly tried to mess with the
generations by leaving out a quark or the like.  Indeed, this is why the
charm quark was first predicted, before the generation pattern was fully
apparent.  It's natural to try to "unify" the quarks and leptons, and
indeed, in grand unified theories like the SU(5) theory proposed in 1974
of Georgi and Glashow, the quarks and leptons are treated in a unified
way.
Another interesting pattern is the repetition of generations itself.  
Why is there more than one?  Why are there three, almost the same,
but with the masses increasing dramatically as we go up?   The Standard
Model makes no attempt to explain this, although it does suggest that
there had better be more than 17 quarks --- more, and the strong force
would not be "asymptotically free" (weak at high energies), which would
cause lots of problems for the theory.  In fact, experiments strongly
suggest that there are no more than 3 generations.  Why?  
Finally, there is the grand distinction between bosons and fermions.  
What does this mean?  Here we understand quite a bit from basic
principles.  For example, the "spin-statistics theorem" explains why
particles with half-integer spin should satisfy the Pauli exclusion
principle, while those with integer spin should like to hang out
together.  This is a very beautiful result with a deep connection to
topology, which I try to explain in 
2) John Baez, Spin, statistics, CPT and all that jazz, 
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spin.stat.html
But many people have tried to bridge the chasm between bosons and
fermions, unifying them by a principle called "supersymmetry".  As in
the other cases mentioned above, when they do this, they then need to
pull tricks to "break" the symmetry to get a theory that fits the
experimental fact that bosons and fermions are very different.
Personally, I'm suspicious of all these symmetries postulated only to be
cleverly broken; this approach was so successful in dealing with the
electroweak force --- modulo the missing Higgs! --- that it seems to
have been accepted as a universal method of having ones cake and eating
it too.  
Now, string theory comes in two basic flavors.  Purely bosonic
string theory lives in 26 dimensions and doesn't have any fermions in
it.  Supersymmetric string theories live in 10 dimensions and have both
bosons and fermions, unified via supersymmetry.  To deal with the 
fermions in nature, most work in physics has focused on the
supersymmetric case.  Just for completeness, I should point out that
there are 5 different supersymmetric string theories: type I, type
IIA, type IIB, E8 x E8 heterotic and SO(32) heterotic.  For more on
these, see "week72".  We won't be getting into them here.  Instead,
I just want to explain how fermions work in different dimensions, and
why nice things happen in dimensions of the form 8k + 2.  Most of
what I say is in Section 3 of
3) John H. Schwarz, Introduction to supersymmetry, in Superstrings
and Supergravity, Proc. of the 28th Scottish Universities Summer
School in Physics, ed. A. T. Davies and D. G. Sutherland, University
Printing House, Oxford, 1985.
but mathematicians may also want to supplement this with material
from the book "Spin Geometry" by Lawson and Michelson, cited in
"week82".  
To understand fermions in different dimensions we need to understand
Clifford algebras.  As far as I know, when Clifford originally invented 
these algebras in the late 1800s, he was trying to generalize Hamilton's
quaternion algebra by considering algebras that had lots of different
anticommuting square roots of -1.  In other words, he considered
an associative algebra generated by a bunch of guys e_1,...,e_n,
satisfying
e_i^2 = -1
for all i, and 
e_i e_j = - e_j e_i
whenever i is not equal to j.  I discussed these algebras in "week82"
and I said what they all were --- they all have nice descriptions in terms
of the reals, the complexes, and the quaternions.  
These original Clifford algebras are great for studying rotations in 
n-dimensional Euclidean space --- please take my word for this for now.
However, here we want to study rotations and Lorentz transformations
in n-dimensional Minkowski spacetime, so we need to work with a slightly 
Different kind of Clifford algebra, which was probably invented by Dirac.  
In n-dimensional Euclidean space the metric (used for measuring distances) 
is
                        dx_1^2 + dx_2^2 + ... + dx_n^2  
while in n-dimensional Minkowski spacetime it is
                       dx_1^2 + dx_2^2 + ... - dx_n^2
or if you prefer (it's just a matter of convention), you can
take it to be
                     - dx_1^2 - dx_2^2 - ... + dx_n^2
So it turns out that we need to switch some signs in the definition 
of the Clifford algebra when working in Minkowski spacetime.  
In general, we can define the Clifford algebra C_{p,q} to be the algebra 
generated by a bunch of elements e_i, with p of them being square roots 
of -1 and q of them being square roots of 1.  As before, we require that 
they anticommute:
e_i e_j = - e_j e_i
when i and j are different.  Physicists usually call these guys "gamma
matrices".  For n-dimensional Minkowski space we can work either
with C_{n-1,1} or C_{1,n-1}, depending on our preference.  As Cecile 
DeWitt has pointed out, it *does* make a difference which one we use.  
With some work, one can check that these algebras go like this:
C_{0,1}   R + R               C_{1,0}   C
C_{1,1}   R(2)                C_{1,1}   R(2)
C_{2,1}   C(2)                C_{1,2}   R(2) + R(2)
C_{3,1}   H(2)                C_{1,3}   R(4)
C_{4,1}   H(2) + H(2)         C_{1,4}   C(4)
C_{5,1}   H(4)                C_{1,5}   H(4)
C_{6,1}   C(8)                C_{1,6}   H(4) + H(4) 
C_{7,1}   R(16)               C_{1,7}   H(8)
I've only listed these up to 8-dimensional Minkowski spacetime, and
the cool thing is that after that they sort of repeat --- more precisely,
C_{n+8,1} is just the same as 16 x 16 matrices with entries in C_{n,1},
and C_{1,n+8} is just 16 x 16 matrices with entries in C_{n,1}!  
This "period-8" phenomenon, sometimes called Bott periodicity, has 
implications for all sorts of branches of math and physics.  This is
why fermions in 2 dimensions are a bit like fermions in 10 dimensions
and 18 dimensions and 26 dimensions....
In physics, we describe fermions using "spinors", but there are
different kinds of spinors: Dirac spinors, Weyl spinors, Majorana
spinors, and even Majorana-Weyl spinors.  This is a bit technical but
I want to dig into it here, since it explains what's special about
8k + 2 dimensions and especially 10 dimensions.  
Before I get technical, though, let me just summarize the point for 
those of you who don't want all the gory details.   "Dirac spinors"
are what you use to describe spin-1/2 particles that come in both
left-handed and right-handed forms and aren't their own antiparticle 
--- like the electron.  Weyl spinors have half as many components,
and describe spin-1/2 particles with an intrinsic handedness that 
aren't their own antiparticle --- like the neutrino.   "Weyl spinors"
are only possible in even dimensions!
Both these sorts of spinors are "complex" --- they have complex-valued 
components.  But there are also real spinors.  These are used for describing 
particles that are their own antiparticle, because the operation of 
turning a particle into an antiparticle is described mathematically
by complex conjugation.  "Majorana spinors" describe spin-1/2 particles 
that come in both left-handed and right-handed forms and are their 
own antiparticle.  Finally, "Majorana-Weyl spinors" are used to describe 
spin-1/2 particles with an intrinsic handedness that are their own
antiparticle.  
As far as we can tell, none of the particles we've seen are Majorana
or Majorana-Weyl spinors, although if the neutrino has a mass it
might be a Majorana spinor.  Majorana and Majorana-Weyl spinors
only exist in certain dimensions.  In particular, Majorana-Weyl spinors
are very finicky: they only work in dimensions of the form 8k + 2.  
This is part of what makes supersymmetric string theory work in 10 
dimensions!
Now let me describe the technical details.  I'm doing this mainly
for my own benefit; if I write this up, I'll be able to refer to
it whenever I forget it.  For those of you who stick with me, there
will be a little reward: we'll see that a certain kind of supersymmetric 
gauge theory, in which there's a symmetry between gauge bosons and 
fermions, only works in dimensions 3, 4, 6, and 10.  Perhaps 
coincidentally --- I don't understand this stuff well enough to know ---
these are also the dimensions when supersymmetric string theory works
classically.  (It's the quantum version that only works in dimension 10.)
So: part of the point of these Clifford algebras is that they give 
representations of the double cover of the Lorentz group in different
dimensions.  In "week61" I explained this double cover business,
and how the group SO(n) of rotations of n-dimensional Euclidean space 
has a double cover called Spin(n).  Similarly, the Lorentz group
of n-dimensional Minkowski space, written SO(n-1,1), has a double cover 
we could call Spin(n-1,1).  The spinors we'll discuss are all 
representations of this group.  
The way Clifford algebras help is that there is a nice way to
embed Spin(n-1,1) in either C_{n-1,1} or C_{1,n-1}, so any 
representation of these Clifford algebras gives a representation
of Spin(n-1,1).   We have a choice of dealing with real representations or 
complex representations.  Any complex representation of one of
these Clifford algebras is also a representation of the *complexified* 
Clifford algebra.   What I mean is this: above I implicitly wanted
C_{p,q} to consist of all *real* linear combinations of products of 
the e_i, but we could have worked with *complex* linear combinations 
instead.  Then we would have "complexified" C_{p,q}.  Since the
complex numbers include a square root of minus 1, the complexification
of C_{p,q} only depends on the dimension p + q, not on how many minus 
signs we have. 
Now, it is easy and fun and important to check that if you complexify R 
you get C, and if you complexify C you get C + C, and if you complexify 
H you get C(2).  Thus from the above table we get this table: 
dimension n        complexified Clifford algebra
    1                  C + C
    2                  C(2)
    3                  C(2) + C(2)
    4                  C(4)
    5                  C(4) + C(4)
    6                  C(8)
    7                  C(8) + C(8)
    8                  C(16)
Notice this table is a lot simpler --- complex Clifford algebras
are "period-2" instead of period-8.  
Now the smallest complex representation of the complexified Clifford
algebra in dimension n is what we call a "Dirac spinor".  We can figure
out what this is using the above table, since the smallest complex 
representation of C(n) or C(n) + C(n) is on the n-dimensional complex
vector space C^n, given by matrix multiplication.  Of course, for 
C(n) + C(n) there are *two* representations depending on which copy 
of C(n) we use, but these give equivalent representations of Spin(n-1,1), 
which is what we're really interested in, so we still speak of "the" 
Dirac spinors.
So we get:
dimension n       Dirac spinors 
     1                 C
     2                 C^2
     3                 C^2
     4                 C^4
     5                 C^4
     6                 C^8
     7                 C^8
     8                 C^16
The dimension of the Dirac spinors doubles as we go to each new
even dimension.
We can also look for the smallest real representation of C_{n-1,1}
or C_{1,n-1}.  This is easy to work out from our tables using
the fact that the algebra R has its smallest real representation 
on R, while for C it's on R^2 and for H it's on R^4.  
Sometimes this smallest real representation is secretly just the 
Dirac spinors *viewed as a real representation* --- we can view C^n
as the real vector space R^{2n}.   But sometimes the Dirac spinors 
are the *complexification* of the smallest real representation ---
for example, C^{2n} is the complexification of R^n.   In this
case folks call the smallest real representation "Majorana spinors". 
When we are looking for the smallest real representations, we get 
different answers for C_{n-1,1} and C_{1,n-1}.  Here is what we get:
n   C_{n-1,1}      smallest         C_{1,n-1}      smallest 
                   real rep                        real rep 
1    R + R        R     Majorana     C             R^2    
2    R(2)         R^2   Majorana     R(2)          R^2   Majorana
3    C(2)         R^4                R(2) + R(2)   R^2   Majorana
4    H(2)         R^8                R(4)          R^4   Majorana  
5    H(2) + H(2)  R^8                C(4)          R^8 
6    H(4)         R^16               H(4)          R^16  
7    C(8)         R^16               H(4) + H(4)   R^16  
8    R(16)        R^16  Majorana     H(8)          R^32
I've noted when the representations are Majorana spinors.  Everything
repeats with period 8 after this, in an obvious way.
Finally, sometimes there are "Weyl spinors" or "Majorana-Weyl"
spinors.  The point is that sometimes the Dirac spinors, or
Majorana spinors, are a *reducible* representation of Spin(1,n-1).
For Dirac spinors this happens in every even dimension, because the 
Clifford algebra element Gamma = e_1 ... e_n commutes with everything
in Spin(1,n-1) and Gamma^2 is 1 or -1, so we can break the space of 
Dirac spinors into the two eigenspaces of Gamma, which will be smaller 
reps of Spin(1,n-1) --- the "Weyl spinors".  Physicists usually call this 
Gamma thing "gamma_5", and it's an operator that represents parity 
transformations.  We get "Majorana-Weyl" spinors only when we have
Majorana spinors, n is even, and Gamma^2 = 1, since we are then working
with real numbers and -1 doesn't have a square root.  You can work out
Gamma^2 for either and C_{n-1,1} or C_{1,n-1}, and see that we'll
only get Majorana-Weyl spinors when n = 8k + 2.
Whew!  Let me summarize some of our results:
n    Dirac       Majorana       Weyl     Majorana-Weyl
1     C            R             
2     C^2          R^2           C           R
3     C^2          R^2 
4     C^4          R^4           C^2
5     C^4       
6     C^8                        C^4
7     C^8
8     C^16         R^16          C^8
When there are blanks here, the relevant sort of spinor doesn't
exist.  Here I'm not distinguishing Majorana spinors that come from
C_{n-1,1} and those that come from C_{1,n-1}; you can do that with
the previous table.  Again, things continue for larger n in an obvious
way.  
Now, let's imagine a theory that has a supersymmetry between a gauge
bosons and a fermion.  We'll assume there are as many physical degrees of 
freedom for the gauge boson as there are for the fermion.   Gauge
bosons have n - 2 physical degrees of freedom in n dimensions: for
example, in dimension 4 the photon has 2 degrees of freedom, the spin-up
and the spin-down states.  So we want to find a kind of spinor that
has n - 2 physical degrees of freedom.  But the number of physical
degrees of freedom of a spinor field is half the number of (real) 
components of the spinor, since the Dirac equation relates the
components.  So we are looking for a kind of spinor that has 2(n - 2)
real components.  This occurs in only 4 cases:
n = 3  ->  2(n-2) = 2, and Majorana or Weyl spinors have 2 real components
n = 4  ->  2(n-2) = 4, and Majorana or Weyl spinors have 4 real components
n = 6  ->  2(n-2) = 8, and Weyl spinors have 8 real components
n = 10 ->  2(n-2) = 16, and Majorana-Weyl spinors have 16 real components
Note we count complex components as two real components.  And note how
dimension 10 works: the dimension of the spinors grows pretty fast as
n increases, but the Majorana-Weyl condition reduces the dimension by
a factor of 4, so dimension 10 just squeaks by!
John Schwarz explains how nice things happen in the same dimensions
for superstring theory in:
4) John H. Schwarz, Introduction to superstrings, in Superstrings
and Supergravity, Proc. of the 28th Scottish Universities Summer
School in Physics, ed. A. T. Davies and D. G. Sutherland, University
Printing House, Oxford, 1985.
He also makes a tantalizing remark: perhaps these 4 cases correspond
somehow to the reals, complexes, quaternions and octonions.  Note:
3 = 1 + 2, 4 = 2 + 2, 6 = 4 + 2 and 10 = 8 + 2.  You can never tell
with this stuff... everything is related.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous issues of "This Week's Finds" and other expository articles on
mathematics and physics, as well as some of my research papers, can be
obtained by anonymous ftp from math.ucr.edu; they are in the
subdirectory pub/baez.  The README file lists the contents of all the
papers.  On the World-Wide Web, you can get these files by going to
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/
A complete index of the old issues of "This Week's Finds" is available
at
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/twf.html
but if you are cursed with a slow connection and just want a jumping-off
place to the olds issues, go to
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/twfshort.html
For the latest issue, go to
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/this.week.html
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