Newsgroup sci.physics 208274

Directory

Subject: Re: Ball lightning -- From: singtech@teleport.com (Charles Cagle)
Subject: Re: Vietmath War: Wiles FLT lecture at Cambridge -- From: "ghidrah"
Subject: Re: Universal Coordinate System -- From: odessey2@ix.netcom.com(Allen Meisner)
Subject: Re: supersonic combustion ramjets (scramjets) -- From: wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Dwayne Allen Day)
Subject: Re: Autodynamics -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Re: Masquerading human flesh as beef? -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Re: Can Time 1E-5s Versus 1.4E-5s Be Measured? -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Vietmath War: ...002 bootcamp for p-adics -- From: Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium)
Subject: Re: Surf The Web For Free And Learn How. -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: Re: Autodynamics -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Thesis: Cellular Approach for Modeling Room Acoustics -- From: "N. Dhillon"
Subject: Re: Our current education system (was Re: How Much Math? (not enough)) -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Re: Autodynamics -- From: Mountain Man
Subject: Re: PRINGLES THROUGH THE MAIL -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: Re: Ball lightning -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: Re: The Concept of Time -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Re: PRINGLES THROUGH THE MAIL -- From: "Rick Osborne"
Subject: Re: Autodynamics -- From: dean@psy.uq.oz.au (Dean Povey)
Subject: Re: The Concept of Time -- From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Subject: Re: The Physics of Absolute Motion -- From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Tips For A Roach Free Apartment. -- From: choffman@radix.net
Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!) -- From: dcs2e@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (David Christopher Swanson)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric? -- From: newt@avatar.uwaterloo.ca (Jonas Mureika)
Subject: Re: freedom of privacy & thoughts -- From: "Mr. Anonymous"
Subject: Re: Teaching Science Myth -- From: Peter Metcalfe
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Subject: Re: This Week's Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 94) -- From: Achim Rosch
Subject: Re: Q about atoms... -- From: "Daniel W. Goodale"
Subject: off-topic-notice spncm1996318001815: 1 off-topic article in discussion newsgroup @@sci.physics -- From:
Subject: looking for any position -- From: raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl (Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Subject: -------HELP W/ COOL CRYONICS PROJECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- From: ty1997@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Subject: Re: looking for any position -- From: raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl (Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)

Articles

Subject: Re: Ball lightning
From: singtech@teleport.com (Charles Cagle)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:52:13 -0800
In article <562iqt$jpr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, Alan \"Uncle Al\"
Schwartz  wrote:
>Mark_Stenhoff@msn.com (Mark Stenhoff) wrote:
>>I would very much appreciate information concerning the following for 
>>serious research purposes:
>>· ball lightning events, especially recent events/those involving 
>>traces or damage
>>· ball lightning publications
>>· meetings and conferences concerning ball lightning. 
>>Many thanks for your help,
>>
>>Mark Stenhoff
>>
>>(Mark_Stenhoff@msn.com)
>
>One would imagine "ball lightning" suffers the same problem as putting 
>hair on a sphere:  Unless all the filaments (field lines) are orthogonal 
>to the surface there must be at least one singularity.
Define singularity in this context, Al.
Surely it is none of the below in your mind, right?
singularity     n., pl. -ties 
      1. the state, fact, or quality of being singular. 
      2. a singular, unusual, or unique quality or thing; peculiarity. 
      3. a point at which a mathematical function of real or 
      complex variables is not differentiable or analytic. 
      4. a region of infinite density, as in a black hole.
-- 
C. Cagle
SingTech
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Vietmath War: Wiles FLT lecture at Cambridge
From: "ghidrah"
Date: 13 Nov 1996 23:38:05 GMT
>   The mathematics literature even up to this date, is horribly lacking
> in any elementary discussions of p-adics, what they are, how to
> multiply and divide with them. There strange characteristics. Why this
> lack? The answer is that noone but me ever thought they were anything
> more than a extension. I am the first to realize that they are the
> Naturals themselves, and that the Finite Integers were a field of
> ghosts, or angels that fit on the end of a needle.
> 
Jean Pierre Serre has a book called "A Course in Arithmetic" where he
speaks of many of the elementary properties of p-adic integers.  This book,
I think, is something of a standard in the subject.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Universal Coordinate System
From: odessey2@ix.netcom.com(Allen Meisner)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:35:14 GMT
In  Darrin Edwards
 writes: 
>
>odessey2@ix.netcom.com(Allen Meisner) writes:
>
>>     Please bear with me. Light itself is the absolute reference
frame.
>> Light is the priveleged observer and the preferred reference frame.
>> With light you can determine if you are absolutely at rest. Now, you
>> say that you can arbitrarily name bouy one or buoy two as the
absolute
>> reference frame. However, both coordinate systems will give you the
>> exact same velocity, in both direction and magnitude, for an object
>> moving in space whether you calculate that velocity relative to the
>> first buoy or the second buoy. The calculated velocity is therefore
>> absolute, since it does not matter which coordinate system you use.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Edward Meisner
>> 
>
>This is true if you assume that buoys 1 and 2 are at rest with respect
to
>each other; notice, though, that Peter never claimed that.
>
>Imagine that buoy 2 is moving with a velocity of +10 (insert your
favorite
>velocity units) with respect to buoy 1.  In a coordinate system in
which 
>buoy 2 is at rest, buoy 1 now appears to be moving with a velocity of
>-10 (same units).  This new coordinate system is just as good as the
buoy 1
>coordinate system (if the buoy 1 coordinate system is inertial, then
so is
>the buoy 2 coordinate system, and vice versa); but now both systems
give you
>different velocities for objects moving in space depending on whether
you
>calculate this velocity relative to the first buoy or the second buoy.
>
>I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say, "With light you
can
>determine if you are absolutely at rest."  If buoy 1 emits a beam of
light
>towards buoy 2 (I am trying to keep the problem simple by imagining
that the
>velocity of buoy 2 with respect to buoy 1 is just pointing along the
line
>between the buoys), then do you agree that in the coordinate system
determined
>by buoy 2, the speed of this light will still be c?  If buoy 2 emits
another
>beam of light back at the first buoy, do you agree that the speed of
this light
>measured in the coordinate system determined by buoy 1 will also still
be c?
>(I suspect that you do, if I am correctly interpreting your first few
remarks
>above about light; I guess the real question is whether this situation
poses
>a problem for claiming that either of these coordinate systems is
absolute,
>i.e. determining which of buoy 1 or 2 is "really" at rest.)
>
>Buoy, is it hard to keep typing "boy" over and over again like that...
:)
>
>Cheers,
>Darrin
>
>
    You can determine whether any of the buoys is at absolute rest by
shining a laser in all directions. If any of the beams is deflected,
you know you are in motion. If you adjust your velocity so that none of
the laser beams is deflected, you will then be at absolute rest. I
think that light's speed is always the same. However, since, in my
opinion, it is possible to determine absolute velocity, light's speed
relative to moving objects varies. If you are moving at .5c and emit
light in the direction you are traveling, the velocity of the light is
still c, but relative to the ship it is .5c. Similarly, if you are
moving toward a light source at .5c, the source emits light at c, but
relative to you the speed is 1.5c. The light is not moving toward you
at 1.5c, but you must take into account that you are moving toward the
light source at .5c. You would therefore be able to determine that you
are closing at 1.5c. This is because it is possible to determine one's
absolute velocity. If you couldn't, then you would have to use Special
Relativity.
Regards,
Edward Meisner
Return to Top
Subject: Re: supersonic combustion ramjets (scramjets)
From: wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Dwayne Allen Day)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:21:41 GMT
Russell Crook (rmc@silver.sni.ca) wrote:
: There are no end of mathematical models, predictions, etc. of
: scramjets if one searches the web. But nowhere can I find anything
: on one actually being *built*, let alone *flown*.
You're not looking hard enough.  The Russians flew one several years ago 
on the tip of a ballistic missile.  Surprised a lot of people who did not 
even know they were doing this.  The US has a program to fly a scramjet 
on an SR-71.  I forget the name, but the hardware is built.  Look in back 
issues of Aviation Week & Space Technology as well as Aerospace America.  
These systems have been discussed there.
: Given the age of the concept (I remember reading about scramjets in the 70s),
: and the simplicity of scramjet implementation (once you have the
: shockwave physics and heating problems out of the way :->), and the
: obvious improvements that could be made in booster or SSTO performance
: and cost if you could use air for your oxidizer for more of the boost phase,
: I find this hard to understand.
It has to do with the info that you put in your parenthesis.  Those are 
big problems.
: in order to buttress the math). Am I simply not looking in the right places,
: or is really the case that no one has actually ever built or flight tested
: one?
Get off the Web and do a media search on a system like LEXIS/NEXIS.  
There should be plenty of information there from recent years.
Dwayne
--
Hope is independent of the apparatus of logic.--Norman Cousins
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Autodynamics
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:21:49 GMT
dean@psy.uq.oz.au (Dean Povey) writes:
>
>Well, things get lighter in AD when they are UNDERGOING DECAY.  This wasn't
>happening to Mercury last time I looked :).
 Things get lighter in AD in an ad hoc fashion it would seem. 
 The articles often say "beta decay" to make a specific distinction 
 (that is, all the laws of physics work great except in this one 
 case, where they change all of them rather than introduce the 
 neutrino), but there are other cases where 'decay' is used generically, 
 like on some of the missing energy discussion pages. 
 We know the AD equations do not apply to alpha decay, so if the 
 statement Dean makes above is accurate then we know AD is wrong. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Masquerading human flesh as beef?
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:29:35 GMT
 In article ,
 OX-11   wrote:
 >
 >There is a somewhat disturbing rumor floating around the net--that the
 >government is selling human flesh as beef and pork in the local markets
 >(possibly as a way to eliminate political enemies). My question is this:
 My question is, was this article the *start* of the rumor? 
 Looks like a troll to see how far this will go. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Can Time 1E-5s Versus 1.4E-5s Be Measured?
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:24:37 GMT
 Yes, a 40% effect can be measured at the 10 microsecond level. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Vietmath War: ...002 bootcamp for p-adics
From: Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium)
Date: 13 Nov 1996 20:58:42 GMT
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
Subject: Re: FermatÕs Last Theorem
Message-ID: 
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
References: <2728f8$51j@news.u.washington.edu>
  
<278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> 
 
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 03:19:22 GMT
Lines: 44
In article 
Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
>In article <278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl 
>Heuer) writes:
>
>>Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium) writes:
>>>The eventual arithmetic proof of FLT, I am confident, will come 
>>>from the counting numbers; P-triples are possible only in exp2 
>>>because 2+2=2x2=4.
>>
>>I have my doubts as to the connection between that equation and 
>>FLT; however, you may be interested to know that other solutions 
>>are possible if you allow those left-infinite decimal strings that 
>>we discussed earlier. When k=4, there is a unique nonzero solution 
>>to N+N+N+N = N*N*N*N = M. Here is the answer, worked out to 60 
>>decimal places. You can check it by doing the arithmetic yourself, 
>>right to left.
>>
>>  N = . . .8217568575974462578891103859665245689398767183
>>            82655349981184
>>  M = . . .2870274303897850315564415438660982757595068735
>>            30621399924736
>>
>>Karl Heuer   karl@osf.org
>
>   Karl Heuer double bless you to the infinite Fields of Elysium. I >would not mind if you discovered the worldÕs first valid proof of >FLT, instead of me.
>   Karl can you do the same thing for exp3 and exp5, i.e., a unique >solution?
    Karl I think the proof would then go like this. Take any exp
greater than 2, then when there are rational solutions to FLT those are
turned into infinite integers by just deleting the decimal point. Near
the end of the proof would be something that only with finite integers
is a Ptriple possible because only 2+2=2x2=4.
    Then again I could be all wrong and there in fact exists a
counterexample to FLT provided that one considers infinite integers are
no different from finite integers. That is, finite integers are
infinite integers with just infinite repetition of zeroes to the left.
WOULD THAT NOT BE THE SUPREME IRONY SO FAR IN THE HISTORY OF MATH. That
there is a counterexample to FLT. The whole world will laugh
hysterically if Wiles gets approval and Ludwig Plutonium comes up with
the counterexample. Which choice would you pick--- a 1000 page math
community accepted (fake) proof, or a counterexample? So far my
confidence in the math community is that they would prefer the 1000
page ordeal.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
Subject: Re: FermatÕs Last Theorem
Message-ID: 
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
References: <2728f8$51j@news.u.washington.edu>
  
<278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> 
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 03:44:56 GMT
Lines: 9
In article <278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl Heuer)
writes:
>
> N = . . .8217568575974462578891103859665245689398767183
>            82655349981184
> M = . . .2870274303897850315564415438660982757595068735
>            30621399924736
   LET US FIND A CROP OF COUNTEREXAMPLES TO FLT.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒTerry TaoÓ 
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 93 09:55:36 EDT
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU
Subject: Re: FermatÕs Last Theorem
Newsgroups: sci.math
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2728f8$51j@news.u.washington.edu>
  
<278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> 
 
Organization: Princeton University
Cc:
In article  you write:
>In article  
>Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
>
>>In article <278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl 
>>Heuer) writes:
>>
>>>Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium) writes:
>>>>The eventual arithmetic proof of FLT, I am confident, will come 
>>>>from the counting numbers; P-triples are possible only in exp2 
>>>>because 2+2=2x2=4.
>>>
>>>I have my doubts as to the connection between that equation and 
>>>FLT; however, you may be interested to know that other solutions 
>>>are possible if you allow those left-infinite decimal strings that 
>>>we discussed earlier. When k=4, there is a unique nonzero solution 
>>>to N+N+N+N = N*N*N*N = M. Here is the answer, worked out to 60 
>>>decimal places. You can check it by doing the arithmetic yourself, 
>>>right to left.
>>>
>>>  N = . . .8217568575974462578891103859665245689398767183
>>>            82655349981184
>>>  M = . . .2870274303897850315564415438660982757595068735
>>>            30621399924736
>>>
>>>Karl Heuer   karl@osf.org
>>
>>   Karl Heuer double bless you to the infinite Fields of Elysium. I 
>>would not mind if you discovered the worldÕs first valid proof of 
>>FLT, instead of me.
>>   Karl can you do the same thing for exp3 and exp5, i.e., a unique 
>>solution?
No.
Theorem. The equation N+N+N=N*N*N has no solution in 10-adics, apart
from N=0.
Proof: consider the powers of 2 and 5 in N. Suppose 2 divides N a times
and 5 divides N b times. The lhs of the above equation has 2^a 5^b as
its factors of 2 and 5 (which are by the way the only primes in
10-adics), and the rhs has 2^3a 5^3b as its factors, hence a and b must
be 0.
But then, if neither 2 or 5 divides N, then N must be invertible,
unless N=0. Thus, dividing by N, we get N*N = 3. But comparing the
final digits of both sides, we see that this is impossible.
Similarly: The equation N+N+N+N+N=N*N*N*N*N has no solution in
10-adics, apart from N=0.
Proof. Suppose 2^a5^b are the prime factors of N, again. Then the lhs
has prime factors of 2^a 5^(b+1) and the rhs has prime factors of 2^5a
5^5b. But these can never match, hence there is no solution (unless
N=0; 0 is the only number that has non-unique prime factorization).
The fact that  N+N+N=N*N*N has no solutions in 10-adics, whereas there
ARE solutions of FLT in 10-adics for n=3 (see for example the post by
William Schneeberger), shows that there is no proof that ÒFLT is true
for n=3 => N+N+N=N*N*N for some non-zero NÓ unless you use a property
of the integers that the 10-adic integers do not have.
>
>    Karl I think the proof would then go like this. Take any exp 
>greater than 2, then when there are rational solutions to FLT those 
>are turned into infinite integers by just deleting the decimal point.
An important point here: the operation of turning rational numbers into
infinite integers by deleting the decimal point does NOT preserve
addition or multiplication. For example, in rationals
.33333...   x  .33333....  =  .11111....
whereas
....33333  x  ....33333  =  .....88889
and
.5555....  +  .4444...   = 1
whereas
....5555    +  ....4444    = ....9999
Thus, a rational solution of FLT does not automatically lead to a
10-adic solution of FLT.
>Near the end of the proof would be something that only with finite 
>integers is a Ptriple possible because only 2+2=2x2=4.
I would very much like to see a proof of this statement: if you can
prove this, then you have proved FLT. Then again, see an above point
that you would need to use a property of the integers that is not
shared by the 10-adic integers.
>   Then again I could be all wrong and there in fact exists a 
>counterexample to FLT provided that one considers infinite integers 
>are no different from finite integers.
What you mean here is that there exists a counterexample to FLT in
infinite integers. It is not quite correct to say that Òinfinite
integers are no different from finite integersÓ. Every finite integer
is a 10-adic integer, but not conversely. What is true is that
multiplication and addition are the same operation for both of them.
However, finite integers have several properties that 10-adic integers
do not have, for example, they are all finite. Another is that
induction works for finite integers, but not for 10-adic integers. 
(otherwise, you could prove that all 10-adic integers were finite by
induction).
>   That is, finite integers are infinite integers with just infinite 
>repetition of zeroes to the left. WOULD THAT NOT BE THE SUPREME 
>IRONY SO FAR IN THE HISTORY OF MATH. That there is a 
>counterexample to FLT.
The commonly accepted wording of FLT ends Ò... where a, b, c, n are
(finite) integersÓ (with the finite added for emphasis). If you remove
this last phrase, then the FLT that most mathematicians think of would
then have to be called ÒFLT for integersÓ. It is true that FLT is false
for p-adics, matrices, quaternions, and a lot of other number systems.
In this sense, there are counter examples to the general FLT. But there
is no counter example to FLT (integers): this was proved by Wiles.
>   The whole world will laugh hysterically if Wiles gets approval 
>and Ludwig Plutonium comes up with the counterexample. Which 
>choice would you pick--- a 1000 page math community accepted 
>(fake) proof, or a counterexample? So far my confidence in the math 
>community is that they would prefer the 1000 page ordeal.
There seems to be a point you keep missing. If you change the
definitions of terms (like integer, real, etc), then theorems change as
well. Thus,
ÒFLT for normal integersÓ (Wiles)
is a different theorem than
ÒFLT is not true for 10-adic integersÓ (proved by many people)
and both results (admittedly one is very long, the other very short),
are good mathematics and knowing one does not automatically get you the
other result. So there is no real irony, except that theorems that hold
for one number system need not hold for all number systems.
Of course, you may dispute that the commonly accepted definition of
ÒintegerÓ SHOULD be the commonly accepted definition. But even if you
replace the concept of integer, the ÒoldÓ concept of integer is still a
valid one, so you canÕt just blithely say (for example) Òwell, if I
redefine integers to be 10-adic, so the reals are now equal cardinality
to the integers, then there is no infinite set with smaller cardinality
than the reals anymoreÓ, because the ÒoldÓ notion of integer still
exists.
Terry
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
Subject: Re: Fermat's Last Theorem
Message-ID: 
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
References: 
<278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org>  
<27glo6$elj@paperboy.osf.org> 
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 15:39:46 GMT
Lines: 15
In article <27glo6$elj@paperboy.osf.org> karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl Heuer)
writes:
>In article  >Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium) writes:
>>does this above monster 4N=N^4 repeat in a block like Rational >>numbers repeat
>
>No, it doesn't.
   Karl is this new number which you discovered (if you do not have a
name for it as yet, I suggest HeuerPu Numbers, but that is up to you)
analytic irrational or transcendental? Given that concepts of
transcendental can be translated to P-adic.
   Also, please tell me if there is a mirror reflection in the Reals of
HeuerPu Numbers. Is there a Real number between 0 and 1 which has
HeuerPu properties?
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 00:01:54 EDT
From: ÒKin ChungÓ 
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU
Subject: INFINITE INTEGERS
In-Reply-To: 
Organization: Princeton University
Cc:
Before you embrace the so-called Òinfinite integersÓ too closely,
consider this straightforward sum:
....9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
+....0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
___________________________________________
  ....000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Using your identification of the (finite) integers with a subset of the
infinite integers, this shows that (-1) = ...9999. Do you see what IÕm
trying to get at?
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl Heuer)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Fermat's Last Theorem
Date: 21 Sep 1993 20:59:42 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <27npvu$blc@paperboy.osf.org>
References: 
<27glo6$elj@paperboy.osf.org>  
In article 
Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium) writes:
>(if you do not have a name for it as yet, I suggest HeuerPu Numbers, 
>but that is up to you)
I've been calling N^k=k*N the "LP equation". I don't think its
solutions need names of their own, but "LP numbers" will do for now.
>   Karl is this new number which you discovered analytic irrational or transcendental? Given that concepts of transcendental can be translated to P-adic.
It's easy to prove that it's irrational, because the rationals have the
same properties in the 10-adic numbers that they do in the reals. Since
it's a zero of the polynomial x^k-k*x, it's a (non-Real) irrational
algebraic number.
>Also, please tell me if there is a mirror reflection in the Reals
The LP equation has real solutions for all k; e.g. sqrt(3) for k=3. 
(As someone else already noted, these solutions will have magnitude
>1.)
There are similarities to the Reals, but it's not just a renaming. 1/3
exists as a (repeating) 10-adic integer, but it's not . . .3333; it's .
. .66667 instead. (Multiply it out: . . .66667 * 3 = . . .00001 no
matter how many places you carry it to.) Also, x^2 = 3 has a solution
in the Reals but not in the 10-adics; while x^2 = -31 has a solution in
the 10-adics but not in the Reals.
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl Heuer)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: P-ADIC NUMBERS: RENAMED AS INFINITE INTEGERS
Date: 21 Sep 1993 21:14:12 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <27nqr4$bpe@paperboy.osf.org>
References:  
In article 
Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium) writes:
>   Let us rename the math subject "P-adic Numbers" to that of 
>"Infinite Integers."
I'd rather keep the existing terminology. There are several consistent
models of arithmetic that include objects that look "infinite" in some
sense: the Hyperintegers/Hyperreals, the Surintegers/Surreals, the
compact number line, the Riemann sphere, the transfinite ordinals, the
transfinite cardinals, etc.
The only thing that's "infinite" about the p-adic numbers is their
representation as a digit string, and that's analogous to the infinite
number of digits in a non-terminating Real.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
Subject: Re: P-ADIC NUMBERS: RENAMED AS INFINITE INTEGERS
Message-ID:  
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
References:  
<27nqr4$bpe@paperboy.osf.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 16:34:43 GMT
Lines: 17
In article <27nqr4$bpe@paperboy.osf.org>
karl@dme3.osf.org (Karl Heuer)
>I'd rather keep the existing terminology. There are several >consistent models of arithmetic that include objects that look >"infinite" in some sense: the Hyperintegers/Hyperreals, the >Surintegers/Surreals, the compact number line, the Riemann >sphe,
the transfinite ordinals, the transfinite cardinals, etc.
>
>The only thing that's "infinite" about the p-adic numbers is their 
>representation as a digit string, and that's analogous to the infinite 
>number of digits in a non-terminating Real.
   How about TRANSFINITE INTEGERS? Any objections?
   I am trying to give a good name to these infinite strings for
another assault on CantorÕs claim that there are more than one type of
infinity.
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Terry Tao" 
Subject: Re: Wiles proof of FLT
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU (Ludwig Plutonium)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 93 17:10:49 EDT
In-Reply-To: <5509284@blitzen.Dartmouth.EDU>; from "Ludwig Plutonium"
at Sep 26, 93 5:07 pm
>
> Terry tell me if all P-adic numbers have inverses. Can you prove it
>
If P is prime, then all numbers which are not multiples of P have
inverses. (in other words, all numbers whose last digit is not 0.)
If P is not prime, then all numbers which are coprime to P have
inverses, i.e. the last digit of that number is coprime to P.
To prove it, it is sufficient to show that you can invert the last N
digits, for each N. This is a standard exercise in modular arithmetic.
Terry
p.s. I would still like to hear your comment on my proof that there
must be a counter-example to FLT. Do you think my proof is flawed?
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒTerry TaoÓ 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 20:34:10 EDT
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU
Subject: Re: FermatÕs Last Theorem
Newsgroups: sci.math
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2728f8$51j@news.u.washington.edu>
  
<278vgj$pi2@paperboy.osf.org> 

Organization: Princeton University
Several observations.
(1). In my mind, the reason why 2 is exceptional in FLT is not because
2x2 = 2+2, but rather because 2 is even. If n is odd, then FLT can be
rewritten in the much more beautiful
u^n + v^n + w^n is never 0 unless uvw is 0 (where u,v,w are integers).
(2). P-adic counter-examples to FLT have been known for some time -
almost at the same time that they were discovered. P-adics are like
real numbers, in a sense: who's interested in a real number
counter-example to FLT?
(3). Wiles uses special properties of the finite integers that the
infinte integers do not have, one of which is that there are infinitely
many primes in the finite integers.
(4) Your statement "Wiles's proof contradicts the Fourier theorem" is
indirect non-existence - after all, that's what you said when I used
the same principle to show that FLT must be false for finite integers.
(5) FLT is true for finite integers, false for p-adic integers. Each
finite integer is a p-adic integer, but the set of finite integers is
only a SUBSET of the set of p-adic integers. They are different things,
and you have two different FLTs for two different number systems. FLT
is assumed to be over the finite integers unless otherwise specified,
so your statement that ÒAll proofs of FLT are fakeÓ is wrongly deduced.
However, you have made a true deduction in saying that no proof of FLT
can rely purely on algebraic manipulation, because of the p-adic
counter example. It must use a property that the finite integers have
but the infinite integers do not, for example
(a) induction;
(b) infinitude of primes;
(c) no zero divisors (WillÕs two numbers, a and b, multiply to 0)
etc.
Terry
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒTerry TaoÓ 
Subject: Re: Fermat's Last Theorem
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU (Ludwig Plutonium)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 22:22:46 EDT
In-Reply-To: <5569918@blitzen.Dartmouth.EDU>; from "Ludwig Plutonium"
at Sep 28, 93 10:18 pm
>
>--- You wrote:
>However, you have made a true deduction in saying that no proof of >FLT can rely purely on algebraic manipulation, because of the p-adic >counter example. It must use a property that the finite integers >have but the infinite integers do not, for
example
>--- end of quoted material ---
>Thanks that is important I needed that.
>
>Terry tell me if there is a Real analog of that number Karl produced. >Karl says it is greater than 1. Can you pinpoint it better.
>
the cube root of 4.
Terry
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒWilliam SchneebergerÓ  
Subject: Re: your counterexample posting
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU (Ludwig Plutonium)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 12:10:41 EDT
In-Reply-To: <5581074@blitzen.Dartmouth.EDU>; from ÒLudwig PlutoniumÓ
at Sep 29, 93 11:39 am
Sorry, I don't have a copy. But here's the deal:
We solve a == 0 (mod 5)
 a == 0 (mod 25)
 a == 0 (mod 125)
     .
     .
     .
and
 a == 1 (mod 2)
 a == 1 (mod 4)
 a == 1 (mod 8)
by the Chinese Remainder Theorem. Similarly we solve
 b == 0 (mod 5)
 b == 0 (mod 25)
 b == 0 (mod 125)
 b == 0 (mod 625)
     .
     .
     .
and
 b == 1 (mod 2)
 b == 1 (mod 4)
 b == 1 (mod 8)
     .
     .
     .
Now one can prove that a*a=a, b*b=b, a*b=0, a+b=1. This leads
immediately to the fact that, for all (finite natural numbers) n,
a^n + b^n = c^n where c == 1.
There are, however, much more interesting solutions to FLT in these
numbers. The above solution may well be considered trivial as abc == 0.
For the p-adic numbers (infinite integers in a prime base p) the above
solution does not exist. But I know that there do exist solutions for n
relatively prime to p(p-1).
Will
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒTerry TaoÓ 
Subject: Re: Schneebergers post
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU (Ludwig Plutonium)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 14:45:31 EDT
In-Reply-To: <5581425@blitzen.Dartmouth.EDU>; from "Ludwig Plutonium"
at Sep 29, 93 11:55 am
>
>Hi Terry. I lost Schneebergers post of counterexamples. Would you >have a copy? Please relay
>
I haven't got that post either, but here's how you can compute them:
The idempotents of the 10-adics are the solutions of a^2 = a. Thus
their first digit must be 6 or 5 (by considering the problem modulo 10)
- the idempotents 0 and 1 being discounted. Let us, say, consider the
one with last digit 5: they sum up to 1 anyway.
You can compute successive digits iteratively. If the next digit is a,
i.e. the last two digits are 10a+5, then the last two digits of the
square is 25, so a must be 2.
Similarly, if we let the next digit be b, so the last three digits are
100b + 25, then the last three digits of the square is 625, hence b =
6. And so on.
Terry
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒTerry TaoÓ 
Subject: Re: Schneebergers post
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU (Ludwig Plutonium)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 15:02:53 EDT
In-Reply-To: <5581425@blitzen.Dartmouth.EDU>; from "Ludwig Plutonium"
at Sep 29, 93 11:55 am
Actually, all you need to do is take 5 and keep squaring it. The powers
of 5 will converge in the 10-adic topology to one of Will's numbers.
(recall: whereas the metric in say the reals, is |x-y| for the distance
between x and y, the metric between two p-adics x and y is 1/p^n, where
n is the highest number of times that p divides x-y.)
Terry
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL
From: ÒWilliam SchneebergerÓ  
Subject: Re: your counterexample posting
To: Ludwig.Plutonium@Dartmouth.EDU (Ludwig Plutonium)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 15:21:43 EDT
In-Reply-To: <5581838@blitzen.Dartmouth.EDU>; from ÒLudwig PlutoniumÓ
at Sep 29, 93 12:15 pm
So, I guess, some solutions for exponent 3 are
              a == 1
              b == 10
              c == . . .52979382777667001
              a == 1
              b == 20
              c == . . .4437336001
              a == 1
              b == 30
              c == . . .4919009001
In fact for any finite n, a == 1, b a multiple of 10, we can solve the
equation of FLT.
But, look, all IÕve shown here is that in the 10-adic numbers there is
a solution to the equation. I have _not_ contradicted the statement of
FLT which says that there is no solution among the usual finite
integers. This is more of a problem.
Later.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium)
Subject: Re: Wiles's proof of FLT
Message-ID: 
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
References: <27st80$asv@clipper.clipper.ingr.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 16:24:55 GMT
Lines: 15
In article 
Ludwig.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu  (Ludwig Plutonium) writes:
>FLT was outstanding because there is no proof of FLT in the general >case. The general theorem of FLT has no proof because transfinite >integers are just as real as finite integers. All attempts at a proof >of the general equation of FLT are doomed to
failure. 
   PROOF OF FLT. The general form of FLT where a^n+b^n=c^n are such
that the four numbers a,b,c,n could be transfinite integers as well as
finite integers. Hence a proof in the general case is impossible. The
counterexamples in the P-adics is the proof. Anything else would have
to restrict the four numbers a,b,c,n to finite number cases and show
that in those restrictions there are no P-triples. QED
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Surf The Web For Free And Learn How.
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:39:55 GMT
davk@netcom.com (David Kaufman) wrote:
>
>          For K-12 Students, Teachers And Others
>     Interested In Exploring Math, Science And Ethics
>   Through Collaboration For Enrichment And Achievement.
>------------------------------------------------------------
>        ----------------------------------------
>       |   Surf The Web For Free And Learn How  |
>       |   At The Science and Business Library  |
>        ----------------------------------------
>
>	The Science Library at 34th Street on Madison Ave in 
>NYC has 55 computers downstairs that are used to access the 
>Web with over 30 million sites. 
Even the bridge and tunnel people may find this a bit inconvenient.  
As a New Yorker by birth, I recommend going armed.
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
                  INTERNET SEARCH ENGINES, 2.03
Find anything at the top of the list, everything at the bottom.
Big Boppers
     http://www.search.com/
     http://pacific.discover.net/~dansyr/engines.html
     http://albany.net/allinone/
     http://www.webcom.com/webscout/
     http://www.probe.net/~niles/
     http://www.ARTECH.com/post.html
     http://www.tstimpreso.com/hotsheet/
     http://www.cnet.com/
     http://home.netscape.com/home/internet-search.html
Research It!
     http://www.cam.org/~psarena/it.html
240,000+ indexed and documented shareware packages
     http://www.jumbo.com/
     http://shareware.com/
     http://ftpsearch.unit.no/
     http://www.intbc.com/sleuth/
UU-decoding/viewing USENET binary posts
     http://shell.ihug.co.nz/~ijh/
Newsgroups
     http://www.dejanews.com/ (Usenet search engine)
     http://gagme.wwa.com/~boba/groups/
     http://www.speakeasy.org/%7Edbrick/newspage/root.html
     http://sunsite.unc.edu/usenet-i/hier-s/0top-1.html
Medline (8 million medical references)
     http://www.healthgate.com/
More search engines:
     http://www.hotbot.com/
     http://www.opentext.com/
     http://www.webcrawler.com/
     http://pointcom.com/
     http://www.cs.colorado.edu/wwww/
     http://www.earthlink.net/free/bigbee/webdocs/links.html
     http://www.pond.com/~justice/engine.html
     http://rama.poly.edu:1800/WWW.html
     http://www.lycos.com/
     http://cuiwww.unige.ch/meta-index.html
     http://pubweb.nexor.co.uk/
The Phone Book
     http://www.yellowpages.com/
     http://www.bigbook.com/
     http://www.bigyellow.com/
     http://www.four11.com/
     http://wyp.net/info/search/NA.html
     http://www.iaf.com/
     http://www.switchboard.com/
     http://www.telephonebook.com/
US Snail Mail ZIP codes
     http://www.usps.gov/
Thomas Register (all North American manufacture)
     http://www.thomasregister.com/
YAHOO (Web Index by topic),
     http://www.yahoo.com/
Archieplex (ARCHIE search front end)
     http://web.nexor.co.uk/archie.html
The List (3500 Internet Providers by area code)
     http://www.thelist.com/
Link hubs are homepages which provide hundreds of hypertext links to 
other Web sites.  Here are some of Uncle Al's haunts:
But first... something completely different
     http://www.pythonline.com/
     http://www.cheesesofnazareth.com/
     http://www.paranoia.com/coe/e-sermons/butcher.html
     http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~nv91-asa/mad.html
     http://www.us.mensa.org/
http://users.aol.com/rpollanen/  (massive and indexed)
http://www.bigeye.com/           (1000+ URLs)
http://cool.infi.net/            (Cool Site of the Day)   
http://www.hotwired.com/         (join, it's free!)
http://www.netlynews.com/        (truth free of Official truth)
http://www.suck.com/             (kewl)
http://www.firstsite.com/        (aggressive info)   
http://www.iguide.com/           (indexed guide to the net)
http://www.msnbc.com/            (Microsoft + NBC = something)
http://www.cnn.com/              (folks you might trust)
http://www.cyberzine.com/seeress/vision.html
http://kzsu.stanford.edu/uwi/reviews-l.html
http://www.vpm.com/tti/stick1-5.html#SURFSITES
http://gagme.wwa.com/~boba/spider1.html
http://www.oslonett.no/home/frodeni/odin/
http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/NASA_homepage.html
http://www.ziff.com/~pcmag/websites.htm
http://www.bekkoame.or.jp/Users/user.home.page.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
Everything is everywhere.  Magic is loose in the world!
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Autodynamics
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:36:59 GMT
thomasl283@aol.com writes:
>
>Robert, I do not dispute that neutrinos exist, it is their unusual 
>characteristics that theory would have us believe.  
 That is a strangely self-contradictory statement.  If they did not 
 have those properties of charge and mass and lepton number they would 
 not be neutrinos.  Sort of like saying photons exist but you don't 
 like that strange property of interacting with charges. 
> The Autodynamics critical review of the claims to have detected the
>neutrino, based on those  neutrino theories are well taken in my view.
 They have never critiqued the direct detection of the neutrino. 
 Their analysis is stuck back in about 1936. 
>For the neutrino to have the unusual ability to *increase* in cross
>section with increased energy disagrees  with every other particle 
>in the universe.  
 This is false. 
 The pion-nucleon cross section increases rapidly with energy as you 
 approach the Delta.  
>What is the neutrino mechanism that would allows this?
 The energy is getting closer to the physical pole of the W and Z. 
>If the neutrino is born at * c * you cannot add energy to it.
 So photons cannot scatter and acquire energy either? 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Thesis: Cellular Approach for Modeling Room Acoustics
From: "N. Dhillon"
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:51:09 -0600
Hello all,
I have posted a copy of my M.S. Thesis at:
http://home1.gte.net/dhillos/camra/index.html
Please feel free to email me any comments you may have.
Thank you,
Navdeep Dhillon
_______________
Navdeep Dhillon
Member of Technical Staff
GTE Laboratories
ndhillon@gte.com
***
Abstract:
The Cellular Approach for Modeling Room Acoustics (CAMRA) algorithm is
an alternative, more general,implementation for current room acoustic
modeling methods that provides a framework for dealing effectively with
moving sounds in an arbitrary room configuration.  The room space is
discretized into cells that have independent knowledge and skills. In
its simplest form, the CAMRA algorithm is a way of implementing the
ray-tracing algorithm. By adding cell skills, more complex acoustic
analysis is possible. For example, binaural simulation and scattering
effects can be incorporated. The computational complexity
of the algorithm is dependent on cell abilities, so computational power
can be optimized for a given application. The algorithm has been
described, implemented and tested, and its extension capabilities have
been discussed and illustrated in detail.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Our current education system (was Re: How Much Math? (not enough))
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:14:56 GMT
gonser@eawag.ch (-Tom-) writes:
>
>             ...              Universities are free in order to
>offer everyone that qualifies regardless of parents' income equal
>opportunity. 
 What fraction of the population attends college or university? 
 There was a time when the Universities of California were free, 
 but the cost of that system could no longer be supported at the 
 level it was being used. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Autodynamics
From: Mountain Man
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:14:50 -0800
Phil Fischer wrote:
> What a bunch of moronic blather. The most stringent test of the perihelion
> advance predicted by GR is the Taylor-Hulse pulsar. You might recall that
> the discoverers of this pulsar (Taylor and Hulse) were recently awarded Nobel
> prizes. This system has a much larger perihelion advance than
> mercury. Observation and analysis of pulsar timing has yielded fantastic
> agreement with GR. End of discussion.
Hahahahahahaha .....  end of discussion.
Hahahahahahaha .....  what an intellectual singularity.
Of course - I forgot ... everyone who is awarded a Nobel prize is
correct by default.   Certainly, if they were handing out such
awards in the days of Ptolemy, then he would have received a few.
Water joke ..... surf on .....
Verily verily I say unto you ....
   Those who are stuffed up proponents of the status quo have
   already received the reward of their labor.
I find sci.physics the most amusing newsgroup to read for this
very reason ... "Know_it_Alls" - Please stand up and be recognised.
The prizes have been awarded.
The books have already been written.
Nature is known to the scientific mind.
All that is left to do now
is to teach the children well ....
Pete Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 BoomerangOutPost:       Mountain Man Graphics, Newport Beach, {OZ}
 Webulous Coordinates:   http://magna.com.au/~prfbrown/ancients.html
 QuoteForTheDay:         HERACLITUS
       born about 540 bc in Ephesus of royal family, 
       Heraclitus was a solitary, his words were obscure, 
       and he never disguised his contempt for mankind and 
       other "philosophers and poets" such as Pythagoras and Homer:
     "The rest of mankind are unaware of what they do while awake,
     just as they forget what they do while sleeping."
     Rebuking some for their unbelief, Heraclitus says:
     "Knowing neither how to hear nor how to speak"
     The opinions of mankind - "to be children's playthings".
     "What sense or mind have they?
     They put their trust in popular bards 
     and take the mobs for their teacher, 
     unaware that most men are bad, and the good are few.
     "Human nature has no insight, but divine nature has it."
     "Man is infantile in the eyes of a god, 
      as a child in the eyes of a man."
     "To God all things are fair, and good and just, 
      but men have supposed some unjust and some just."
     "One man is to me ten thousand, if he be the best."
     "The way up and the way down are the same"
     "Divine things for the most part escape recognition because of
unbelief."
     "The limits of the soul woudst thou not discover 
      though thou shoudst travel every road: so deep a logos has it."
     "What we see awake is death - what we see asleep is sleep."
     "The body is a tomb" ...... (Note: this is a standard Pythagorean
belief)
     "A man's character is the immortal 
      and potentially divine part of him" [Fr 115]
     "In the CIRCLE the beginning and the ending are common.
     "What he calls death is not utter annhilation, 
      but changes to another element" - [Plato on Heraclitus]
     Heraclitus called fire "Want and satiety"
     "For fire will come and judge and convict all things."
     "From all things one, and from one all things."
     "Immortal mortals, mortal immortals, 
      livingdeath of the others and dying their lives"
     (Guthrie: the transformation of opposites occur concurrently)
     "Everything is an exchange for fire" .... 
      fire is the arche of nature [Simplicius:Phys23:33-24]
     "Let us not make random conjectures about the greatest of matters."
     According to the writings of Macrobius, 
     Heraclitus describes the soul as ....
     "A spark of the substance of the stars."
             -  Heraclitus ..... (about 500 BC)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to Top
Subject: Re: PRINGLES THROUGH THE MAIL
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:45:55 GMT
seinfeld@earthlink.net (Jordan Tobin) wrote:
>For my Phyiscs class, we are to send a pringle's potato chip thourgh
>the mail to school, without it breaking. Anyone got ideas on a way to
>package the chip so it does not get broken?
>
>--Jordan Tobin
>seinfeld@earthlink.net
>
Get a pint of some platinum cure two-component silicone and pot the 
thing.  Styrene polyester will work, but it won't look quite as good - 
and there is the matter of the exotherm, as with epoxy.  Cast-in-place 
clear polyurethane could be OK.
Take the block of polymer, seal it in a 1/4" wall heat-hardened steel 
box, wrap with a couple of inches of bubble pack, put that in a wooden 
crate...
AND DON'T MARK IT 'FRAGILE!"  It only makes them angry.
Seriously, you need find way to take impacts and smear them over time and 
space.  Think about it (and remember the grease factor).
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Ball lightning
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:48:27 GMT
singtech@teleport.com (Charles Cagle) wrote:
>In article <562iqt$jpr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, Alan \"Uncle Al\"
>Schwartz  wrote:
>
>>Mark_Stenhoff@msn.com (Mark Stenhoff) wrote:
>>>I would very much appreciate information concerning the following for 
>>>serious research purposes:
>>>· ball lightning events, especially recent events/those involving 
>>>traces or damage
>>>· ball lightning publications
>>>· meetings and conferences concerning ball lightning. 
>>>Many thanks for your help,
>>>
>>>Mark Stenhoff
>>>
>>>(Mark_Stenhoff@msn.com)
>>
>>One would imagine "ball lightning" suffers the same problem as putting 
>>hair on a sphere:  Unless all the filaments (field lines) are orthogonal 
>>to the surface there must be at least one singularity.
>
>Define singularity in this context, Al.
>
>Surely it is none of the below in your mind, right?
>
>singularity     n., pl. -ties 
>      1. the state, fact, or quality of being singular. 
>      2. a singular, unusual, or unique quality or thing; peculiarity. 
>      3. a point at which a mathematical function of real or 
>      complex variables is not differentiable or analytic. 
>      4. a region of infinite density, as in a black hole.
>
Try (3).  If the hair is not uniformly  orthogonal to the surface there 
must be at least one point where the rule for laying it down is broken - 
check out the back of a volunteer's head.
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
Return to Top
Subject: Re: The Concept of Time
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:45:51 GMT
 The reason Ken is being ignored is because he just repeats the same 
 words over and over but cannot give them any physical meaning. 
 Specifically, for the n-th time, 
kenseto@erinet.com (Ken H. Seto) writes:
>
>The E-Matrix is not moving. All material system such as the earth are
>moving. All motions relative to the E-Matrix are absolute motions.
 So, Ken, what is the velocity vector of the earth?  
 What is the velocity vector of the sun? 
 You can feel free to specify it in your favorite absolute units of 
 space and time in that E-Matrix system.  We can sort that out later. 
 Without that, statements like 
>Yes, but the measured 'c' on earth contains the absolute motion of the
>earth lab.  Light is being tranmitted by the E-Matrix.
 are completely without meaning. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Re: PRINGLES THROUGH THE MAIL
From: "Rick Osborne"
Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:58:14 GMT
Jordan Tobin  wrote in article
<56df0h$53j@colombia.earthlink.net>...
> For my Phyiscs class, we are to send a pringle's potato chip
thourgh
> the mail to school, without it breaking. Anyone got ideas on a way
to
> package the chip so it does not get broken?
1. Mark the envelope "REALLY REALLY REALLY UNBELIEVABLY AMAZINGLY
FRAGILE".
2. Soak the chip in water until it is nice & squishy then send it.
3. Cheat: Mail yourself an envelope, reopen it, insert chip, drop
envelope in school's inbox.
4. Leave the chip in the original canister, and put a stamp on that.
5. Crumble the chip to dust and send that.  When your prof tries to
flunk you, point out that it didn't break while it was in the mail!
Rick Osborne / C++ VB Pascal HTML VRML Java /
osborne@gateway.grumman.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~
Neurotoxin Lite!  Tastes great. Less writhing & drooling.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Autodynamics
From: dean@psy.uq.oz.au (Dean Povey)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 01:07:04 GMT
Erik Max Francis  writes:
>Dean Povey wrote:
>> In AD gravitation, the perihelion advance for each planet is
>> proportional to the square root of the division of the solar mass by
>> the orbital radius power 3.
>> 
>>              Tp = sqrt(M / r^3)      [ditto: DGP]
>Care to derive this?
>> If the Mercury value is taken as 43" . . . .
>Do you _actually_ mean that Autodynamics can't predict Mercury's perhelion
>precession without being given it?  That's not very impressive.  Right
>there general relativity has a head start on you.
From what I can gather from the web pages, the AD equation uses a constant
which indicates the quantity of mass received from pico-gravitons 
per each gram of mass present, per second. This is a universal constant which
is the same for all celestial bodies.  Hence, the input of Mecury's perhelion
advance is merely a method to calculate this constant.  (You could predict
Mercury's perhelion advance by using accurate observations of another body to 
calculate the constant.)  
I don't see much wrong with this, you find constants throughout physics,
(eg. the GR equation uses G and pi).
For more information read the Autodynamics web page.
Dean. 
Return to Top
Subject: Re: The Concept of Time
From: jac@ibms46.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 01:09:53 GMT
kenseto@erinet.com (Ken H. Seto) writes:
>
>Since there is no response to this thread, I assume that the
>relativists are agreeing with the existence of absolute time and
>motion. 
 By this logic, the fact that Ken has never provided a response to 
 many inquiries about the motion of the earth or an earth-based lab 
 through his E-Matrix, we can assume that Ken agrees that he does 
 know what his own words mean. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        |  "The half of knowledge is knowing
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       |  where to find knowledge" - Anon. 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  |  Motto over the entrance to Dodd 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    |  Hall, former library at FSCW. 
Return to Top
Subject: Re: The Physics of Absolute Motion
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Date: 13 Nov 1996 19:36:05 -0600
>: Yes, exactly. I can only judge the value of a theory by comparing
>: it to the real universe in which we live. 
>        That may be correct for an engineer or an experimentalist,
>but it is certainly not true for theoretical physics, any model
>that is self consistent has value, even if it is only used as
>a reference, or to generate or precipitate new ideas and experiments.
Sorry, you're quite right. I should have said "correctness", 
not "value". But cranks usually insist that their ideas actually 
are a correct description of the universe and not experimental or 
pedagogical theories. As you point out the approach they take has
been known to be wrong for nearly a hundred years. They would do
much better to re-invent Newtonian gravity, which at least has 
predictive value and is of course the correct low-energy 
approximation to general relativity.  Anti-relativity cranks are 
not on a path of improving the world's understanding of the 
universe, only one of self-aggrandizement.
>        I do not agree with any of the concepts of absolute motion,
>absolute space, aether or E-Matrix or any other name, or absolute
>velocity, but the number of threads and number of responses gives
>[...] others more incentive to continue beating a tired horse.
Well, amen, but should we let nonsense go unchallenged, even
if it is the same tired old stuff repeated endlessly?
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Tips For A Roach Free Apartment.
From: choffman@radix.net
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:09:22 -0500
John Anonymous MacDonald wrote:
> Anyone have tips for keeping David Kaufman's droppings out of
> the newsgroups?
For that matter what about Persuter's?  Suggestion might be for all to
ignore them both and maybe they'll go away.  Nah, too young to take a
hint.
Curmudgeon
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Sophistry 103 (was: I know that!)
From: dcs2e@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (David Christopher Swanson)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:30:53 GMT
brian artese  writes:
> Hardy Hulley wrote:
> 
> > If you bothered to read what I wrote before you started
> > hyperventilating, you will note that it is quite consistent with your
> > little rave. 
> 
> No... Your characterization claimed that the 'first principle' of 
> deconstruction was that an author's text obscures some 
> already-established thing called 'intent.'  Writers like Derrida or de 
> Man would never propose such a naive schema.
> 
> Why naive?  Let me answer this way:  Let's say we have an author with 
> something to say; let's say he sits and writes it down.  It 'worked' -- 
that is, he succeeded in writing down what he had to say.  Let's say he 
I believe THAT's yer problem.  What is this "success"?
> publishes this writing and you and I read it.  We talk about the text, 
> and perhaps at some point you say, 'I know what this author means.'  
> Another way to say that is, 'I know what this author means to say,' or 
> 'I know what this author intends to say.'
> 
> Such a statement does not merely claim to have read the actual words of 
> the author, to which we all have access.  The statement does not simply 
> point to *what* the text says; it claims to have apprehended something 
> else:  the 'intent' of the author.  Somewhere along the line something 
> went wrong -- why did 'intent' get divorced from the text itself?  
> Didn't we establish that the author successfully wrote down what he had 
> to say?
> 
> The point is:  If there really exists something called 'intent' that is 
> *distinct* from the actual text -- and if that intent is communicable 
> and therefore articulatable -- *why didn't the author simply write down 
> _that_ articulation instead?*
> 
> In other words:  it's not deconstruction that claims that there is a 
> 'problem' with communicating *what* one has to say; it's not 
> deconstruction that has posited the text as an 'interference' to 
> communication; what causes the 'problem' is this goblin called 'intent' 
> that humanists feel so compelled to protect.
> 
> By throwing out 'intent' deconstruction doesn't _cause_ a problem 
> regarding communication -- it obviates one.
> 
> -- brian
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:30:12 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:

Please see new thread for convenience:
"Brian Jones' universe (was: its still...)"
Return to Top
Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric?
From: newt@avatar.uwaterloo.ca (Jonas Mureika)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:29:45 GMT
Along I-15 between LA and Las Vegas (and I assume further?), distances
are given both in miles and km.  Is there a reason for this
(e.g. military purposes?  The Mojave Desert is full of bases).
Also, the mileage sign for Pasadena as you get off the 110 freeway
at Orange Grove Blvd. says "<- Pasadena 2  (3.2 km)", for
all metric people at Caltech?
Return to Top
Subject: Re: freedom of privacy & thoughts
From: "Mr. Anonymous"
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:34:27 -0600
	John, as much as I would rather pound you to a pulp with my bare 
hands, I can't help but ask you if you realize this guys just yanking 
your fucking chain?
	I thought in the past you were just some mildly psychotic guy 
hell bent on spamming the shit out of everyone with your foolishness but 
I can see what you're doing is really scary.
	Invisable waves that can control your rectum?  You need 
professional help John.  There are times that any and all of us 
can/will/have go completely over the edge, and you're there pal.
	I'm sorry John, but you are too far out there to even be allowed 
internet acsess.  There arent any firearms or anything in your home are 
there?  Does your family keep all the sharp edged objects in your house 
locked up?  They should really concider it before you snap some night and 
whack them all for being "mind control infiltrators" or something.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "Mr Anonymous"						  mordor@skypoint.com
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Teaching Science Myth
From: Peter Metcalfe
Date: 14 Nov 96 14:36:20 +1200
peter@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) writes:
: Frank_Hollis-1@sbphrd.com.see-sig (Triple Quadrophenic) wrote:
: 
:>>SO, how do skates work
:>>
:>
:>Steel, being a liquid, forms a thin film at the base of the skates, thus 
:>lowering friction.
: 
: I always thought that it was the glass insert (very small- most people
: don't even realise that it's there) which flows, so making the skates work.
Nah, you're both wrong.  The thin edge of the blade as it runs over 
the ice vibrates at ultrasonic frequencies.  The ultrasonics fracture 
the ice crystals and frees the water inside in a process known as 
dephlogistonization.  The resulting water reacts implosively with
the metal (owing to its dephlogistinated state) and defrictionizes
the surface of the blade.
--Peter Metcalfe
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:01:07 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:
[bjon]
>>You have missed the point.  If there's  no such thing as absolute
>>motion (no existence of it), then it becomes impossible for any
>>possible experiment to ever detect, even in principle, and yet this
>>must be the case for SRT to be testable.
>>
[kenn.]
>Your logic is flawed.  If absolute motion can be detected, then the PR will
>fail for that phenomenon.  If the experiment is optical, then SR will be 
>falsified.  
>But it is not necessary for absolute motion to exist for this argument to go
>through.  If absolute motion does not exist, then SR is true and therefore
>cannot be falsified.  This does not prevent us from testing it and its 
>consequences.
Here's what I am saying: If one makes the argument that "Unicorns
aren't detectable" when actually one means "It is my theory that
unicorns don't exist, and furthermore they are not detectable," then
this latter part is a senseless addition, and I don't believe Einstein
would have done this.  SRT says that only merely relative motion is
detectable, and that absolute motion is not detectable.  Einstein said
that absolute motion is meaningless in that it cannot be observed, but
this doesn't mean that he denied its very existence.  And a theory
that says "Absolute motion is not detectable" meaning "Despite the
fact that absolute motion does exist, it is not observable" is not
falsifiable unless such motion does exist.  The only way it can be
falsified is by the detection of absolute motion, so this type of
motion must exist for the theory to be falsifiable.
>In an argument of the form 'if A, then B', it is not necessary for A to be 
>true to test the arguement.  This argument is equivalent to 'if not B, then 
>not A', so we can test B.  The truth of B does not prove A, nor does the 
>falsity of A prove the falsity of B.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: This Week's Finds in Mathematical Physics (Week 94)
From: Achim Rosch
Date: 14 Nov 1996 02:00:10 GMT
John Baez wrote:
> Now, spin is a form of angular momentum intrinsic to the electron,
> but there is another kind of angular momentum, namely orbital angular
> momentum, caused by how the electron (or whatever particle) is moving
> around in space.  It turns out that orbital angular momentum also
> has magnetic effects, but only causes diamagnetism.  The idea
> that when you apply a magnetic field to some material, it can also make
> the electrons in it tend to move in orbits perpendicular to the
> magnetic field, and the resulting current creates a magnetic field.
> But this magnetic field must *oppose* the external magnetic field.
> Ergo, diamagnetism.
> 
> Why does orbital angular momentum work one way, while spin works
> the other way? 
Actually  orbital moments and spins
do work the same way! The nonrelativistic Hamilton of
a particle in a magnetic field can be written:
H=p^2/2m + mu B (L+g S) + 1/2m e^2/c^2 B^2 r^2
The second expression shows, that a orbital momentum L=(r x p)
really acts the same way as
a spin. To decide this physically, look at an atom with a finite angular
moment 
in a magnetic field (which is paramagnetic with a similiar behavior as 
a free spin).
Diamagnetism can be traced back to the third expression!
The most "classical" way to explain diamagnetism is to look at the
 induced electric field, when (adiabatically) switching on the magnetic
field. By this electric field, currents are induced, which (according
to Lenz' rule) shield the magnetic field which do not decay fully in a
quantum-mecanical system - the best diamagnet is a superconductor. 
Does somebody know how this "classical" picture can be used to derive the
"diamagnetic term" in the hamilton?
Achim
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Q about atoms...
From: "Daniel W. Goodale"
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:12:36 -0600
Airborne........what he said!
-- 
Daniel Willis Goodale
The Biohazard Brewing Company
I like to think of myself as a chemical super-freak.
Return to Top
Subject: off-topic-notice spncm1996318001815: 1 off-topic article in discussion newsgroup @@sci.physics
From:
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:18:15 GMT
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Return to Top
Subject: looking for any position
From: raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl (Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 02:14:33 GMT

Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:31:01 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:

Please see new thread for convenience:
"Brian Jones' universe (was: its still...)"
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:04 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:
>In article <56a5ma$ohc@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
>bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian D. Jones) wrote:
>>briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote [in part]:
>>
>>>In article <562h73$k2k@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>,
>>>bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones) wrote:
>>>>throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote[in part]:
>>>>
>>>>>::: The dude did not ask for reality, but only for an operational def. 
>>>>>::: of absolute time. 
>>>>>:: You have given a definition, but not an OPERATIONAL definition. 
>>>>
>>>>>: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
>>>>>: It is operational in the sense that it could be carried out by simple
>>>>>: trial and error if by no other means. 
>>>>
>>>>>You can only have "trial and error" as an operational definition if you
>>>>>can tell when you err.  For example, it is clear that bjon has erred
>>>>>here.  He now knows he needs to make another try at his operational
>>>>>definition. 
>>>>
>>>>>So, keep on trying, bjon.  Everybody needs a hobby, I guess.
>>>>>--
>>>>>Wayne Throop   throopw@sheol.org  http://sheol.org/throopw
>>>>>               throopw@cisco.com
>>>>
>>>>Still, given enough trials (and the error is when the times don't
>>>>match), the observers should eventually reach the point where all
>>>>their time intervals match for any given events.  At that point, they
>>>>would have absolutely synch'd clocks. And this is per Einstein's own
>>>>definition of absolute time, which is that all observers find the same
>>>>time between any two events.  In SRT, all find a different time period
>>>>for the same two events, which (being only two events) can have only
>>>>one actual time between them.
>>>>
>>
>>>But there is no single outcome of your definition.  It amounts to setting the
>>>clocks in one reference system, then setting the clocks in all other reference
>>>systems from that one.  How do you choose the starting system?  And then there
>>>is that pesky time dilation that prevents the clocks from agreeing after some
>>>time lapses.
>>
>>Time dilation is not involved -- only synchronization. And the goal is
>>to get all the clocks absolutely sync'd by using real events. The
>>criterion is all get the same time interval for any two random events,
>>the opposite of SRT.
>This definition does not pin it down.  As I said above, you can choose any 
>inertial frame and use its clocks to measure the time intervals.  Then all
>observers will get the same value.  But if I choose a different inertial frame
>and use its clocks, everyone will again get the same value, but it will be
>different from the original.  Which is "true"?
>The use of such clocks will also show up in the laws of physics as a new
>vector quantity, contradicting the PR.
You don't just pick one frame to get the readings for all.
You let all the observers (many different ones) take readings for a
set of events, and you average these.  Then later you do the same for
another set of events to see if the observers are closer or not to
each other.  If not, you vary them some way and do it again (take
readings of another set of events).  I believe that eventually the
observer readings will merge (all agree on the times between any set
of events).  The event-pairs themselves each always have only one
absolute time interval and this is the controlling factor.
Return to Top
Subject: -------HELP W/ COOL CRYONICS PROJECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: ty1997@aol.com
Date: 14 Nov 1996 02:49:43 GMT
Hi,
I am considering doing my science project for this year on cryonics.  I
have tried to get some info on the feasibility of this idea but have not
had much luck.  Some possibilities included freezing crickets or
flat/roundworms to show memory retention after thawing.  If you are
knowledgeable in this field or have any suggestions, please e-mail me
(ty1997@aol.com).  Thank you very much
Tyler
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:20:39 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:
>In article <5668oi$2ho@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones) wrote:
>>briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:
>>
>>>The internal beat of a clock has nothing to do with absolute time.  You have
>>>already made an exception for motion, what is next?
>>
>>>The regularity of a clock does not tell us how it will compare with other,
>>>non-local clocks.  This was recognized by Poincare in 1898, and developed by
>>>Einstein in 1905 into SR.
>>
>>There's more to absolute time than mere clock synch. (In fact, clock
>>synch has nothing to do with absolute time -- it is merely a matter of
>>definition, as Einstein has pointed out.)
>If clock sync has nothing to do with absolute time, then what is absolute
>time?   The only way we can compare time intervals of events at different 
>places is by synchonizing our clocks.  Your previous definition of absolute
>time is one where all observers will agree on the value of the time interval.
>Without synch, the only thing left to agree on is that the time interval is
>meaningless.
It was not a definition of absolute time, but a way of showing that
such time does exist, even in SRT. That is, it was an example that
shows how real time shows up in SRT by the phenonenon of any SRT
observer getting a different time interval for two events than that of
any other SRT observer.  This is not a relative thing, but is an
absolute thing, a reflection of real clock readings even in SRT, and a
reflection of the fact that an SRT observer's clocks are set
out-of-true in proportion to his absolute speed.  The real parts of
usable absolute time are [1] a real clock rhythm [2] that is known by
the observer. Absolute time by itself is just part [1].  As for the
synch part, Newton's is called absolute synch, and E's relative
synch., but this is not absolute time itself, which is the actual
rhythm of an actual clk.
>>And there's no "exception made for motion."  A clock has an absolute
>>rhythm, independent of any observer.  This is a simple fact about the
>>clock's absolute time.  Another fact is that this absolute rhythm
>>changes with the clock's absolute speed. (Proved by the KTX).
>>
>KTX showed that if AT and length contraction exist, then time dilation must
>exist.  Another explanation of the experiment is that AT does not exist and
>SR holds.
No explanation at all in SRT.
>>Now, if you want to restrict "absolute time" to "all observer's
>>knowing what all clocks actually read at any univeral instant," then
>>we have not got to this yet, and the only way to get to it is by
>>somehow detecting our absolute motion (which is another absolute that
>>does exist, but has eluded detection thus far).
>>
>But, according to your entry above, the clocks could not be compared if they
>are not coincident, so your def of AT is meaningless,
Return to Top
Subject: Re: looking for any position
From: raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl (Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 02:40:56 GMT
Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D. (raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl) wrote:
ADDRESS:
             Grzegorz Kruk, Ph.D.
             Wysoka 12A/146
             41-200 Sosnowiec
             Poland (please register mail)
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
or           ph./fax/modem (2400-8-N-1) +48 32 1995546
EDUCATION:
Ph.D.
13th of December 1993, graduated from Trinity
College, University of Dublin, Ireland.
Thesis: FT Infrared Spectroscopy of Liquid Crystals.
Papers:
A. Kocot,  R.  Wrzalik,  G.  Kruk,  J.K.  Vij,  Molecular  Materials,  v.1, 
p.273-279, (1992).
A. Kocot, G. Kruk, R.  Wrzalik,  J.K.  Vij,  Liquid  Crystals,  v.12,  n.6, 
p.1005-1012, (1992).
J.K. Vij, A. Kocot, G.Kruk, R. Wrzalik, R. Zental, Mol. Cryst. Liq. Cryst.,
v. 14, p. 337-350, (1993).
G. Kruk, A. Kocot, R. Wrzalik, J.K. Vij, O. Karthaus, H. Ringsdorf,  Liquid 
Crystals, v.14, n.3, p.807-820, (1993).
G. Kruk, J.K. Vij, O. Karthaus, H. Ringsdorf, Supramolecular Science, v.2,
p.51-58, (1995).
6th of July 1989, graduated from  Silesian  University,  Katowice,  Poland, 
(specialization:  experimental and applications of physics). 
Degree of Magistri (Master) in Physics.
    M.Sc. Graduation Exam: "A"
    Total Grade Point Average "B" (4.0)
Thesis: Strong Thermal Lens Induced by Laser Light in Mixtures of 
Organic Liquids with Ferrocene.
Published in Berichte der Bunsenges. Phys. Chem., v.94,  p.417-420,  (1990) 
by G. Kruk and Z. Gburski.
INTERNATIONAL MEETINGS:
Internal EC SCI*0291 project meeting, 1990, University of Dublin, Ireland.
14th International Liquid Crystal Conference, 1991, Pisa, Italy,
(Presented 2 posters).
Internal EC SCI*0291 project  meeting,  1992,  University  of  Manchester, 
U.K., (Seminar).
WORK EXPERIENCE
1988-1994 physicist, Silesian University, Katowice, Poland.
      Duties:
            1)  preparing and explaining basic experiments on physics for
                undergraduate students.
            2)  writing computer programmes for experiments
            3)  designing and performance supervising of new experimental 
                setups for experiments within undergraduate course
            4)  supervising students performing their own experiments
            5)  supervising maintenance jobs on experimental hardware
            6)  assembling electronic hardware for experiments like e.g. 
                interfaces for meters and also writing software in ASSEMBLER 
1989-1990 part time teacher of programming in PASCAL and BASIC, III  Liceum 
          Ogolnoksztalcace im. A. Mickiewicza, Katowice, Poland.
         Duties:
            1) Installing software
            2) Teaching programming in Pascal and Basic and also how to
               run and operate other applications 
1991-1993 research student, EEE Department, Trinity College, University  of 
      Dublin, Dublin, Ireland. (working for EC research project SCI*0291 
      in cooperation with groups of University of Mainz and University of
      Manchester).
          Duties:
            1) Laboratory research on liquid crystals and discotic liquid 
               crystals using FTIR spectroscopy equipment and polarizing 
               microscopy including:
                   a) FTIR Spectrometer BIO-RAD FTS60A a Motorola 68000 based
                      system with IDRIS operating system
                   b) Programmable Intelligent Temperature Controller 
                      Oxford ITC4
            2) Writing software applications for data handling in FORTRAN
            3) Data handling and plotting on VAX/VMS (MATLAB), UNIX, DOS 
               (EASYPLOT, WORD, LOTUS MANUSCRIPT)
            4) Preparing seminars for internal project meetings and conferences
            5) Correcting tutorials
            6) Supervising students working with MATLAB during first course of 
               Digital Signal Processing 
03.1994 - Owner of "RAVEN" -Translation & Interpreting Services Bureau.
          Cooperating with:
          East Europen Business Centre, Welling, London, Kent
          International Language Engineering, Boulder, CO, USA (signed 
          contract)
          Duties:
            1) Manager
            2) Accountant
            3) Translator
            4) Writing and modifying own software for accountancy
PROGRAMMING: PASCAL, FORTRAN, C
EXPERIENCE WITH OPERATING SYSTEMS: VMS, UNIX, DOS, RSX-11, CP/M, TOS,                           
LANGUAGES: English-fluent, Polish-native.
OTHER SKILLS: driving licence, yacht steersman licence
INTERESTED IN: programming,  robotics, computer  simulations,  AI,  
               optical computing, OB, optical transistor, space research. 
OTHER FIELDS OF INTEREST: sailing, skiing, sport driving, basketball, swimming,
                          movies, chess.
already 33 y.o. (born on July 27th, 1963) , married, 2 children.
REFERENCES:
Prof. H. Robinson-Hammerstein, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
ph. +353-1-7021045
Prof. J.K. Vij, EEE Department, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
ph. +353-1-7021431
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:57:04 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:
[bjon]
>>And meaningless.  (What does "Light's speed relative to any observer
>>whatsoever is independent of the light source" mean?)
>>
>Exactly what it reads.  Any observer can measure light's speed, for light
>emitted from any source and will get the same value.
But you have mixed together two light speeds -- light's speed as it
leaves the source and this light's speed relative to the observer.
Does it make any difference if the light is source independent or not?
>>>>more meaty proofs of light's absolute motion existence. In 1977, Ken
>>>>Brecher studied binary star x-rays to see if the stars' _absolute)_
>>>>motion (the only kind that _could_ have a real effect upon anything)
>>
>>>The issue was variation of the star's motion relative to the Earth.
>>
>>No.  It was the star's speed being source affected or not, and the
>>only type of light speed that  can possibly be affected by a light
>>source is the absolute or actual light speed.
>The only speed we can measure is relative speed.  It can be affected by
>motion of the source.  But in the case of light, it is not.
Brecher (as I said) did not measure the light's speed at all. All his
experiment showed was the the light leaving the source was not pushed
faster thru space by the source or slowed down thru space by the
source.  This clearly has zilch to do with some observer measuring the
speed of light relative to his frame.
>>>>had any affect upon the emitted light's _absolute_ speed (the only
>>>>type of speed that could be affected by a source's motion). He said in
>>>>his paper that there would be a definite pattern if light's speed were
>>>>source-affected (or source dependent), and this pattern would be
>>>>readily observable from earth.  (The light would get "mixed up" as it
>>>>was emitted from stars moving rapidly in opposite directions).
>>>>However, no such telltale pattern was ever observed, meaning that the
>>>>light's actual speed thru space (or its absolute speed) was in no way
>>>>affected by the source's movement thru space, or the stars' absolute
>>>>movements. Note that the earth observer in no way measures any light
>>>>speed (either round-trip or one-way)in this case.  This is purely a
>>
>>>The experiment was based on the fact that the travel time would vary if the
>>>speed varied.  (D/c+v <> D/c-v).  The equality of the times is a proof that  
>>>the speeds are the same.  
>>
>>No clocks were involved, therefore no times.
>>
>Try again.  The times involved were the travel time of light from various 
>points in the stellar orbit.  Read the literature on this experiment.
What was looked for was the following: [1] pulses appearing (arriving
on earth) from more than one orbit postition at the same received
time, [2] odd eclipses of the binary star system's members, and [3] an
apparent orbital eccentricity.   Each of these is discussed in detail
in Brecher's paper in Phys. Rev. Lett.
The point here is: Either you believe in Ritz's emission theory or you
accept Brecher's experimental disprove of it.
And in either case, the only speed that fits is light's absolute
speed.
>>>>matter of absolute speeds, both of the light sources and of the light
>>>>leaving the sources.  All that was looked for was a particular
>>>>pattern, a pattern whose origins were light-years away, and in no way
>>>>affected by us on earth. Since no observer measured any speed at all,
>>>>the speed of the light in this is simply an absolute speed.
>>>>
>>
>>>Absolute's got nothing to do with it.  The experiment showed that the light
>>>traveled at the same speed, relative to the Earth, no matter what the relative
>>>speed of the source.
>>
>>Dead wrong.  Call  Mr. Brecher.
>>
>I stand by my statement.
The experiment showed only that the source's movement had no effect
upon the speed of the emitted light. No one on earth measured any
speed of anything at all.  And saying "I stand by my statement" does
not prove anything except that you are determined to ignore facts.
>>>>And if light has an absolute speed, so does everything else.
>>>>
>>>>However, this does not mean that we can determine any object's
>>>>absolute speed. Mechanical methods fail due to inertia, and optical
>>>>attempts have failed due to various reasons.  Right now, the earth's
>>>>absolute speed could be anything from zero to nearly lightspeed (using
>>>>c as light's absolute speed), but we have no way (yet -- but some
>>>>think the CBR supplies us with an absolute frame) of determining the
>>>>actual value of this absolute earth speed. (We could so it if we could
>>>>find a way to start two clocks at the same time, but this, too, has
>>>>eluded us).
>>>>
>>
>>>This was one of Poincare's objection's to Lorentz's theories.  The same 
>>>principle (PR) is explained by various hypotheses, depending on the experiment.
>>>So, one explanation is given for mechanical tests, another for first order 
>>>optical, still another for second order optical.  Lorentz was able to combine
>>>the optical results with his 'corresponding states' and offset time definition.
>>>Einstein answers all PR questions by showing that Lorentz' time indicates the
>>>need for a new kinematics.
>>
>>Of course there must be different physical explanations for optical vs
>>mechanical.  These are totally unalike because light's speed (UNlike
>>any inertial object's) is source independent.
>We expect different theories to explain different phenomena.  But SR allows
>us to extend the theories to moving reference systems.  Prior to that, 
>different hypotheses were needed for each theory to explain the failure to
>detect motion.
>>
>>And Einstein's View explains nothing at all.
>>
>Wrong.  
Not according to A.I. Miller, Ph.D. in physics, M.I.T.
(All I am doing is repeating his written message).
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:09:33 GMT
briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote[in part]:
>In article <56a5l0$ohc@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
>bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian D. Jones) wrote:
>>briank@ibm.net (Brian Kennelly) wrote [in part]:
>>
>>>In article <563iol$fvv@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
>>>bjon@ix.netcom.com (Brian Jones) wrote:
>>>>odessey2@ix.netcom.com(Allen Meisner) wrote[in part]:
>>>>>    How about the time span between spacetime events that are dependent
>>>>>on an inertial frame that is at absolute rest? Would this give us the
>>>>>absolute time?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, because such an observer's clocks are truly set even by using
>>>>Einstein's definition, and further, such clocks are not slowed, being
>>>>at absolute rest in space. But of course this time span cannot be
>>>>confirmed as the one that's absolute because no one knows which
>>>>observer is at rest, if any (or, similarly, no one knows what the true
>>>>time span should be). So, it does give us an absolute time reading,
>>>>but does not give us absolute time itself for our use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>>Another step on the road to understanding relativity.  The next is to discard
>>>the scaffolding of the absolute frame.  You will see that the theory stands
>>>without it, and yields the correct answers to any questions about the 
>>>relationship between moving reference frames. 
>>
>>This is quite funny considering the fact that none of my questions in
>>this regard have been answered by the relativists here.  Such as why
>>two SRT observers obtain different time intervals for two events.
>>Once this has been answered, one can see that absolute clock readings
>>cause this, and that the clocks were set out-of-true in direct
>>proportion to each observer's absolute speed.  There are many such
>>absolutes in SRT, behind the scenes.
>They have been answered many times.  Differently moving observers get 
>different values for intervals because they synchronize their clocks 
>differently, as you have noted.  This synchronization is dependent on the 
>observers *relative* speeds.  A single observer would not get offset clocks
>using Einstein's procedure.
There's a special type of answer that I meant -- the right one.
How can a merely relative difference in synch yield or produce a real
or absolute difference in intervals?
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