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Subject: Re: How certian is the Uncertainty Principle? -- From: kenneth paul collins
Subject: Re: Cryonics bafflegab? (was re: organic structures of consciousness) -- From: wowk@cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian Wowk)
Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution -- From: Judson McClendon
Subject: Re: Cryonics bafflegab? (was re: organic structures of consciousness) -- From: lkh@mail.cei.net (Lee Kent Hempfling)
Subject: Re: How do we *know* electron spin is not real? -- From: thomasl283@aol.com
Subject: any post ? FTIR, LCs and so on -- From: raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl (Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution -- From: harrisws@carleton.edu (HazChem)
Subject: Re: What is a constant? (was: Sophistry 103) -- From: Bob Gore
Subject: Re: A photon - what is it really ? -- From: Peter Diehr
Subject: Re: Cryonics bafflegab? (was re: organic structures of consciousness) -- From: cryofan@brokersys.com (Randy)
Subject: WWW and equation rendering -- From: kmuldrew@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew)
Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric? -- From: Markus Kuhn
Subject: Re: Teaching Science Myth -- From: "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution -- From: caj@sherlock.math.niu.edu (Xcott Craver)
Subject: Re: Teaching Science Myth -- From: carrelda@pore.dnet.dupont.com (David Carrell)

Articles

Subject: Re: How certian is the Uncertainty Principle?
From: kenneth paul collins
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:43:17 -0500
ale2 wrote:
> [...] might one have a small chance of measuring a violation of the 
> Uncertainty Principle?
My view, which is not yet accepted by others, is that what's been referred 
to as "uncertainty" has everything to do with the existence of 
sub-emission energy flows, and nothing to do with Physically-Real limits.
In the future (if I'm reading things right, the near future), when folks 
have come to terms with the fact that Physical Reality is "subtle", and 
have learned that massive applications of energy "just" come up against 
self-generated inertial dynamics, within the artificially-imposed group 
discipline of which, the True subtlety of Physical Reality remains hidden, 
then we'll see a lot of elegant experiments, performed in gentle energy 
realms, but having ever-more-refined Geometry with respect to energy flow 
dynamics, and we'll see experiments in which sub-threshold flows are 
successfully combined. And in this way, the concept of "uncertainty" will 
gradually be whittled down to Certainty.
"uncertainty" was an error resulting from the oft-reiterated behavioral 
propensity to take what's "in-hand" (what's familiar), and to call it 
"everything there is". ken collins
_____________________________________________________
People hate because they fear, and they fear because
they do not understand, and they do not understand 
because hating is less work than understanding.
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Subject: Re: Cryonics bafflegab? (was re: organic structures of consciousness)
From: wowk@cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian Wowk)
Date: 15 Nov 96 17:00:26 GMT
In <328B65B7.545@ccgate.dp.beckman.com> Paul Brown  writes:
>>Moreover, there are cryoprotectants which can inhibit the formation of ice
>>crystals and instead form vitreous (glassy) ice.  This is the focus of most
>>cryobiology research aimed at freezing larger tissues.
>How do they deliver this protectant?
	Hypothermic perfusion through the vascular system.
>What is its structure?
	The solution that's been optimized for kidneys is a mixture
of DMSO, propylene glycol, and formamide.  I could draw the chemical
structures, but that would be rather pedantic.   
>No one that I ask seems to know.
	I posted a reference giving complete details of this
research yesterday.  Again, it is:
http://www.prometheus-project.org/prometheus/organ-cryopreservation.html 
>It must be some sort of alchemical elixir.
	Pejoratives again?  Don't know what your field is, but the
journals you publish in sure must have colorful Letters to the 
Editor. :)
***************************************************************************
Brian Wowk          CryoCare Foundation               1-800-TOP-CARE
President           Human Cryopreservation Services   cryocare@cryocare.org
wowk@cryocare.org   http://www.cryocare.org/cryocare/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: Judson McClendon
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:28:13 -0600
IG (Slim) Simpson wrote:
> Why quote from a book that , for the most part, I don't accept. If I
> quote from the Koran (Sp?) will it make any difference to you??
> 
> Slim
"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any
two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and
of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of
the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)
-- 
Judson McClendon
Sun Valley Systems    judsonmc@ix.netcom.com
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Subject: Re: Cryonics bafflegab? (was re: organic structures of consciousness)
From: lkh@mail.cei.net (Lee Kent Hempfling)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:19:54 GMT
wowk@cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian Wowk) enunciated:
>	I posted a reference giving complete details of this
>research yesterday.  Again, it is:
>http://www.prometheus-project.org/prometheus/organ-cryopreservation.html 
From the referenced welcome page:
"If the Prometheus Project's goal of fully reversible suspended
animation is successfully accomplished, it will have an enormous
impact on the practice of medicine. Doctors will have the
option of placing their terminal patients into suspended animation
until future technology can cure what is killing them. Many people
with incurable and terminal conditions will elect such a procedure
with the reasonable expectation that advances in medical science will
find cures for their conditions in the near future. They would then be
revived and cured before rejoining their loved ones and continuing the
life that would otherwise have been prematurely taken from them."
Now... I see nothing wrong with this research. This is not talking
about putting a dead person on ice it is talking about suspending the
person. As the paper detailed NASA thought about it in the 70's and
luckily they didn't project it to more fiction. The Project's goal is
a viable scientific field of study.
But there remains a fine line between doing this to humans, running
the risk of a single one not being reanimated...... All it will take
is one, and the whole group goes down for murder. So I guess its
easier to play with people that are already dead.
CryoCare Foundation http://www.cryocare.org/cryocare/
I can not fault the intentions of this organization but I can quote:
"After legal death is pronounced, delicate human tissues are quickly
damaged by lack of blood flow. During cryopreservation, further tissue
damage occurs as a result of the freezing process." 
OK!
I agree.
Then:
"Some people feel it may be unnecessary to minimize these two types of
injury, since future science should be able to undo any harm that
occurs today. We feel differently: that we should do everything
in our power to minimize damage today, because there is no absolute
guarantee that this damage will
be reversible tomorrow."
I applaud the organizations attitude toward the "do no harm" precept.
But I wonder...if it were possible to revive dead bodies (aka Mary
Shelly) claiming that science may be able to undo any previous damage
is putting science into the business of creationism.
And why isn't it listened to when the statement is made that there is
no guarantee that damage will be reversible tomorrow?
If thawing out a pile of mush can be made to be alive again it should
at least be a vegatable. 
But I point out the same thing mentioned earlier: It will take quite a
long time to see if this happens. In the mean time the companies doing
it will have to remain financially solvent. It appears efforts have
been made to see that such happens. So in the end if nothing does work
as planned, we can be assured that a group of people will have had
careers, guaranteed to be paid for.
And also be assured that nothing will happen to those people for
having pulled off something that didn't work since they state right up
front that it just might not.
But there might be a zealous prosecutor somewhere who decides to try
the desecration of a corpse issue.  Then again, those who benefitted
from the endeavor will not have to worry about that issue. Piles of
human mush do not make good defendants.
It is such a perfectly developed machine I wonder who to give the
credit to.
As a Russian acquiantance of mine has recently said, upon learning of
this country's ridiculous overwrought preoccupation with trying to
stay alive:
"They proceed to freeze after death ?
 If just so then the cryonics is the double deception since
 both a live brain and a dead brain will be destroyed by ice
crystals."
And all of the effort so far has rested on the need to protect such
freezing from causing damage. Which mean preparatory efforts, not
something that can be corrected later. 
Which I guess leaves all those heads and those frozen cadavers
hanging. They died too soon? Why didn't someone tell them to hang in
there a bit longer....... Nah.
lkh
Lee Kent Hempfling...................|lkh@cei.net
chairman, ceo........................|http://www.aston.ac.uk/~batong/Neutronics/
Neutronics Technologies Corporation..|West Midlands, UK; Arkansas, USA.
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Subject: Re: How do we *know* electron spin is not real?
From: thomasl283@aol.com
Date: 15 Nov 1996 19:43:43 GMT
> jcooper@acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca (jason cooper)wrote:
>Subject: How do we *know* electron spin is not real?
>Date: 15 Nov 1996 02:28:33 GMT
>I was told in a second-year Quantum course that the "spin" on an
>electron is not, in fact, any kind of real spin.  One reason I
>was given ran something along the lines of "Given the known
>radius of the electron, we can calculate how fast it would have
>to spin to have the moment attributed to it.  Such a spin would
>require FTL motion on its outer surface"...
Dirac had this picture: An electron does not move along a straight line,
but "trembles" (zitterbewegung) at the velocity of light about a point. 
The dancing motion was declared to cover a region of the size (h bar/mc)
where m is the electron's mass obtained experimentally. Thus he postulated
that the electron's charge (e) describes a small current-carrying loop so
that the electron behaves like it has a magnetic moment of ( e h bar/2mc
).  In effect the loop is spinning at  c  in Dirac's theory.
>A couple of questions here.  First off, how do we know the radius
>of an electron?
>Second, given that the electron is (to my knowledge) a truly
>elementary particle, it must have no internal structure.  How
>could we test empirically whether a particle with no internal
>structure was spinning?  Specifically, how could we test the
>electron?  Have we?  Sounds like ye olde "perfectly homogeneous
>spinning disk" philisophical problem...
The electron and positron are two different particles and are composed of
photons. If we insist the electron and positron are point particles
without structure, that is a logical inconsistency.
For a model that not only shows a unique  electron and positron photon
structure but why they spin ( the momentum of the EM energy adds in their
structural models ).  The unique structures simultaneously allows one to 
hang *all* of the electron's fundamental physical constants ( mass, spin
angular momentum, charge and magnetic moment ) on the simple structure. 
See http://www.best.com/~lockyer/home3.htm for an outline of this
successful model.  
 Note that the model structure has Dirac's declared edge length of (h
bar/mc) (the rationalized Compton wavelength of the electron). Note the
model has  two current loops, thus giving the electron it's anomalous  g'
factor of 2.     The model works perfectly.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 >               Everyone can be taught to sculpt;
 >       Michelangelo would have had to be taught not to.
>Jason Cooper                              jcooper@acs.ucalgary.ca
Regards: Tom: http://www.best.com/~lockyer/home.htm
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Subject: any post ? FTIR, LCs and so on
From: raven@david.silesia.pik-net.pl (Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.)
Date: 15 Nov 1996 19:04:14 GMT
ADDRESS:
             Grzegorz Kruk, Ph.D.
             Wysoka 12A/146
             41-200 Sosnowiec
             Poland (please register mail)
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
or           ph./fax/modem (2400-8-N-1) +48 32 1995546
EDUCATION:
Ph.D.
13th of December 1993, graduated from Trinity
College, University of Dublin, Ireland.
Thesis: FT Infrared Spectroscopy of Liquid Crystals.
Papers:
A. Kocot,  R.  Wrzalik,  G.  Kruk,  J.K.  Vij,  Molecular  Materials,  v.1, 
p.273-279, (1992).
A. Kocot, G. Kruk, R.  Wrzalik,  J.K.  Vij,  Liquid  Crystals,  v.12,  n.6, 
p.1005-1012, (1992).
J.K. Vij, A. Kocot, G.Kruk, R. Wrzalik, R. Zental, Mol. Cryst. Liq. Cryst.,
v. 14, p. 337-350, (1993).
G. Kruk, A. Kocot, R. Wrzalik, J.K. Vij, O. Karthaus, H. Ringsdorf,  Liquid 
Crystals, v.14, n.3, p.807-820, (1993).
G. Kruk, J.K. Vij, O. Karthaus, H. Ringsdorf, Supramolecular Science, v.2,
p.51-58, (1995).
6th of July 1989, graduated from  Silesian  University,  Katowice,  Poland, 
(specialization:  experimental and applications of physics). 
Degree of Magistri (Master) in Physics.
    M.Sc. Graduation Exam: "A"
    Total Grade Point Average "B" (4.0)
Thesis: Strong Thermal Lens Induced by Laser Light in Mixtures of 
Organic Liquids with Ferrocene.
Published in Berichte der Bunsenges. Phys. Chem., v.94,  p.417-420,  (1990) 
by G. Kruk and Z. Gburski.
INTERNATIONAL MEETINGS:
Internal EC SCI*0291 project meeting, 1990, University of Dublin, Ireland.
14th International Liquid Crystal Conference, 1991, Pisa, Italy,
(Presented 2 posters).
Internal EC SCI*0291 project  meeting,  1992,  University  of  Manchester, 
U.K., (Seminar).
WORK EXPERIENCE
1988-1994 physicist, Silesian University, Katowice, Poland.
      Duties:
            1)  preparing and explaining basic experiments on physics for
                undergraduate students.
            2)  writing computer programmes for experiments
            3)  designing and performance supervising of new experimental 
                setups for experiments within undergraduate course
            4)  supervising students performing their own experiments
            5)  supervising maintenance jobs on experimental hardware
            6)  assembling electronic hardware for experiments like e.g. 
                interfaces for meters and also writing software in ASSEMBLER 
1989-1990 part time teacher of programming in PASCAL and BASIC, III  Liceum 
          Ogolnoksztalcace im. A. Mickiewicza, Katowice, Poland.
         Duties:
            1) Installing software
            2) Teaching programming in Pascal and Basic and also how to
               run and operate other applications 
1991-1993 research student, EEE Department, Trinity College, University  of 
      Dublin, Dublin, Ireland. (working for EC research project SCI*0291 
      in cooperation with groups of University of Mainz and University of
      Manchester).
          Duties:
            1) Laboratory research on liquid crystals and discotic liquid 
               crystals using FTIR spectroscopy equipment and polarizing 
               microscopy including:
                   a) FTIR Spectrometer BIO-RAD FTS60A a Motorola 68000 based
                      system with IDRIS operating system
                   b) Programmable Intelligent Temperature Controller 
                      Oxford ITC4
            2) Writing software applications for data handling in FORTRAN
            3) Data handling and plotting on VAX/VMS (MATLAB), UNIX, DOS 
               (EASYPLOT, WORD, LOTUS MANUSCRIPT)
            4) Preparing seminars for internal project meetings and conferences
            5) Correcting tutorials
            6) Supervising students working with MATLAB during first course of 
               Digital Signal Processing 
03.1994 - Owner of "RAVEN" -Translation & Interpreting Services Bureau.
          Cooperating with:
          East Europen Business Centre, Welling, London, Kent
          International Language Engineering, Boulder, CO, USA (signed 
          contract)
          Duties:
            1) Manager
            2) Accountant
            3) Translator
            4) Writing and modifying own software for accountancy
PROGRAMMING: PASCAL, FORTRAN, C
EXPERIENCE WITH OPERATING SYSTEMS: VMS, UNIX, DOS, RSX-11, CP/M, TOS,                           
LANGUAGES: English-fluent, Polish-native.
OTHER SKILLS: driving licence, yacht steersman licence
INTERESTED IN: programming,  robotics, computer  simulations,  AI,  
               optical computing, OB, optical transistor, space research. 
OTHER FIELDS OF INTEREST: sailing, skiing, sport driving, basketball, swimming,
                          movies, chess.
already 33 y.o. (born on July 27th, 1963) , married, 2 children.
REFERENCES:
Prof. H. Robinson-Hammerstein, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
ph. +353-1-7021045
Prof. J.K. Vij, EEE Department, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
ph. +353-1-7021431
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: harrisws@carleton.edu (HazChem)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:53:18 -0500
In article <328C0F1F.3CFE@flash.net>, elias@flash.net wrote:
> Who cares how God created the universe???  All that matters is that he
> did.  However he accomplished it, is beyond my need to know.  He did
> that is all that matters.
You see, here is the fundamental (pardon the choice of words) difference
between the fundamentalist and the scientist.
The fundamentalist says: "God did it, and that's all I want to know."
The scientist says: "Hmmm...let's see if we can find out more about this."
I think that the two sides are, in all likelyhood (sp), completely
irreconcilable.
But note that it's the scientists that end up providing us with fun things
like the Internet.  If we had stopped at "God sends lightining, and that's
all I want to know," the world would be rather different right now.
-- 
HAZARDOUS CHEMICAL http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/hazchem/hazchem.html
"Cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." (Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_)
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Subject: Re: What is a constant? (was: Sophistry 103)
From: Bob Gore
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:15:40 -0700
On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Richard Harter wrote:
> Bob Gore  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Richard Harter wrote:
> 
> >> moggin@mindspring.com (moggin) wrote:
> >> 
> >> >cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter):
> >> 
> >> >>>:Who was that masked man from Crete, anyway?
> >> 
> >> >moggin@mindspring.com (moggin)
> >> 
> >> >>>   Ask him and he'll tell you.
> >> 
> >> >Richard:
> >> 
> >> >>Liar
> >> 
> >> >   Like, duh.
> >> 
> >> What are you gibbering about?
> >> 
> 
> >     Ahem.  Richard, you missed your cue.  You said, "liar!"  Moggin gave
> >the standard reply, "like, duh!"  At this point, the script allows you a
> >small degree of improvisation; you may choose between a). "moron!" or b)
> >"retard!"  Think of it as Kabuki without eyeshadow.
> >     Btw, isn't this in the FAQ?
> 
> 
> You're absolutely right.  Color me abashed, distraught, confounded.
> Not only did I step out of the script, I used a line without its
> proper prerequisites.  I think I'll go fall on my sword, fortunately a
> virtual.
> 
> One summer whilst in college I played in summer-stock melodrama.  We
> had but a week to put together the sets, put up the tent, learn all
> our lines and rehearse.  The first few performances were a tad rocky.
> It was not just that people missed their cues; sometimes people
> responded to a cue with a line from another act and the scene proceded
> to launch off into weirdland.  Somehow we always managed gracefully
> [or not so gracefully] to wrench the blasted thing back into its
> proper course.
> 
> So, you see, I am no stranger to this sort of thing.  Think of it as
> improvisional kabuki.
> 
     Graciously conceded, sir.  Btw, during your acting career, did you
ever have the experience of other actors feeding you lines, not merely
from another act, but from an entirely different play?  Gives a
completely different meaning to the word "improv," let me tell you.  You
think you're performing Neil Simon pseudo-farce, and before you know it,
you're trying to kill Tybalt sans epee.
                                                             Bob
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Subject: Re: A photon - what is it really ?
From: Peter Diehr
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:50:26 -0500
Robert. Fung wrote:
> 
> > No, as far as I know, you can never be sure that you have only one photon.
> 
>             It's implied that this is the case in this recent work:
>             http://p23.lanl.gov/Quantum/kwiat/ifm-folder/ifmtext.htm
> 
I'll take a look at it. 
> > Take a course (or two) in quantum mechanics to find out how
> > this all works.  It's a nice way to while away the time!
> 
>            Perhaps this is a more pedagogical description of the
>            applicability of photons ? :
> 
>            The Nyquist limit:
> 
>                  delta w * delta t >= 1/2
> 
>            leads to a sampling limit of twice the frequency of the
>            highest frequency component of a signal.
> 
Yes, this applies to any wave-type phenomena.
>            The corresponding HUP eq is:
> 
>                  delta E * delta t >= h
> 
>            since  E=hw.
> 
Given that the state functions satisfy a wave equation (Schroedinger's 
equation), a relationship like the HUP should be expected. One way in
which modern text books derive it is from a Fourier transform from
configuration space to momentum space.
Heisenberg's original method used the commutators; there are many ways
to specify the formalism of QM.
>            But what does this mean ? E=hw is a continuous function
>            of E for w. It only applies when matter e.g. the Bohr
>            model of electron shells etc. is involved ?
> 
E = h*w  (actually, h*f; you've got an extra factor of 2pi there, unless you
mean h_bar) is always true for photons.
> 
>            A magnet surrounded by iron filings exhibits magnetic
>            field quantization nicely I think. When the field passes
>            through uniform spread of filings the filings move into
>            Faraday lines.
This is not quantization, and if you use something with very fine particles in
a liquid suspension, you'll see that those lines disappear (I think). Better
get another opinion here, I think!
> Why ?  The filings bunch
>            together into the Faraday lines. They quantize in this
>            way because the magnetic field prefers to go through
>            the filings rather than free space. This leaves a
>            magnetic depletion zone between the lines where filings
>            were, while additional filings placed in these zones
>            will move into the existing lines.
>
Well, this is true, but it isn't quantization. The magnetic field lines just
follow the path of least resistance.  And though we've both refered to magnetic
field lines, these really don't exist ... all we have are flux densities.  The
field lines are a convenient fiction.
Best Regards, Peter
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Subject: Re: Cryonics bafflegab? (was re: organic structures of consciousness)
From: cryofan@brokersys.com (Randy)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:11:45 GMT
lkh@mail.cei.net (Lee Kent Hempfling) wrote:
>CryoCare Foundation http://www.cryocare.org/cryocare/
>I can not fault the intentions of this organization but I can quote:
>"After legal death is pronounced, delicate human tissues are quickly
>damaged by lack of blood flow. During cryopreservation, further tissue
>damage occurs as a result of the freezing process." 
>OK!
>I agree.
>Then:
>"Some people feel it may be unnecessary to minimize these two types of
>injury, since future science should be able to undo any harm that
>occurs today. We feel differently: that we should do everything
>in our power to minimize damage today, because there is no absolute
>guarantee that this damage will
>be reversible tomorrow."
>I applaud the organizations attitude toward the "do no harm" precept.
It would seem that "do as little as harm as possible" is more what is
meant by this. If you had a gangrenous leg and a surgeon refused to
amputate on grounds that the remaining stump would be aesthetically
unappealling, and used this "do no harm" argument.
When present-day patients are pronounced legally dead, cryonics is the
last hope for  them. Do you agree? Or is there some afterlife from
which the patient is excluded? 
>But I wonder...if it were possible to revive dead bodies (aka Mary
>Shelly) claiming that science may be able to undo any previous damage
>is putting science into the business of creationism.
So what's wrong with science being in the business of creationism?
Any fertile human male and female can be in the same business with a
little pleasureable effort and a little luck. Are you saying that
there is something "sacred" about creating life?
>And why isn't it listened to when the statement is made that there is
>no guarantee that damage will be reversible tomorrow?
Consider the alternative: There is a guarantee that I will never see
another sunset if I am NOT cryopreserved. I LIKE sunsets; I want to
see more of them. I can't see ANY sunsets if my brain rots. Agreed?
A thought experiment for you: you're walking in the jungle and you spy
a man-eating tiger rushing toward you. You quickly look around,
looking for escape routes. There is a tree nearby. You have a small
chance of climbing the tree before the tiger reaches you. You know
it's your only chance. Do you try for the tree, or since the chance is
small, do you give up?
>If thawing out a pile of mush can be made to be alive again it should
>at least be a vegatable. 
What a wit.
>But I point out the same thing mentioned earlier: It will take quite a
>long time to see if this happens. In the mean time the companies doing
>it will have to remain financially solvent. It appears efforts have
>been made to see that such happens. So in the end if nothing does work
>as planned, we can be assured that a group of people will have had
>careers, guaranteed to be paid for.
Why don't you do some investigating into cryonics and find these
cryo-hucksters. If you can indeed find such, I, and every other
cryonicist, will be quite grateful.
>And also be assured that nothing will happen to those people for
>having pulled off something that didn't work since they state right up
>front that it just might not.
Of course, you can't know this, but take it from me, in the entire
history of cryonics, there has never been one person involved with any
cryonics company who didn't fervently want to be preserved himself.
>But there might be a zealous prosecutor somewhere who decides to try
>the desecration of a corpse issue.  Then again, those who benefitted
>from the endeavor will not have to worry about that issue. Piles of
>human mush do not make good defendants.
You mean good 'witnesses." Why do I bother?
>It is such a perfectly developed machine I wonder who to give the
>credit to.
Huh?
>As a Russian acquiantance of mine has recently said, upon learning of
>this country's ridiculous overwrought preoccupation with trying to
>stay alive:
>"They proceed to freeze after death ?
> If just so then the cryonics is the double deception since
> both a live brain and a dead brain will be destroyed by ice
>crystals."
Semantic games?
>And all of the effort so far has rested on the need to protect such
>freezing from causing damage. Which mean preparatory efforts, not
>something that can be corrected later. 
>Which I guess leaves all those heads and those frozen cadavers
>hanging. They died too soon? Why didn't someone tell them to hang in
>there a bit longer....... Nah.
I give up. I'm lost in a semantic  and logical morass here....
>lkh
>Lee Kent Hempfling...................|lkh@cei.net
>chairman, ceo........................|http://www.aston.ac.uk/~batong/Neutronics/
>Neutronics Technologies Corporation..|West Midlands, UK; Arkansas, USA.
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Subject: WWW and equation rendering
From: kmuldrew@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:30:07 GMT
It is a well known (and often remarked upon) fact that the www was
invented by the HEP community at CERN as a means of facilitating rapid
communication. How was it that they weren't able to add markup symbols
for mathematical equations to the original HTML spec? Were they not
interested in communicating physics or was the concept taken from the
physicists before they had a chance to make it workable?
The HTML 3.0 spec (which included a math tag) was recently dropped in
favour of 3.2 (which does not include math). One of the reasons for
dropping the math tag seems to be that the major players (Netscape, et
al.) just ignored it in the 3.0 spec. Does anyone know how the
heathens managed to co-opt this valuable tool?
Ken Muldrew
kmuldrew@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Subject: Re: When will the U.S. finally go metric?
From: Markus Kuhn
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:10:19 -0500
kim kyongsok wrote:
> what's the difference between cm3 and ml.
Originally (definition of 1901), the liter was the volume of 1 kg
pure water at maximum density and at standard athmospheric pressure. 
In the 1950s, volume measurement techniques became precise enough to
discover that the liter and dm^3 differed by around 28*10^-6. Therefore,
in 1964, the word "liter" was redefined to be a special short name for
cubic decimeter. Since then, a liter has been only approximately the
volume of a kilogram of pure water at 4 degrees Celsius, but you need
*extremely* good volume measurement equipment to tell the difference.
Therefore, today 1 cm^3 and 1 mL are exactly the same volume, and mL is
just easier to write.
About the abbreviation of liter: based on existing practice, the SI
standard allows both L and l, i.e. also both mL and ml. In Europe, I
have so far seen mostly ml as the abbreviation for milliliter. In the
U.S., NIST SP PUB 330 (the official translation of the SI standard for
the U.S.) allows only the L as the abbreviation for liter, therefore you
see here on products usually text like 500 mL. The reason: In the U.S.,
the number one is written by hand just as a vertical single stroke, and
not like in Europe with an upstroke. Therefore, l and 1 can be confused
here much more easily than in Europe.
[About the U.S. way of writing a 1 as a single vertical stroke: I
personally think it is a bit of a pain in science classes when you copy
notes from a blackboard, because a subscript 1 and a comma after a
variable are absolutely not distinguishable, and often the context also
gives you not many hints. But as Americans confuse the European
handwritten 1 with a American handwritten 7 (no vertical bar) very
easily, I gave up the European upstroke at the 1. However I still write
my 7 the European way, as this causes no confusion and adds some safety
redundancy. I guess this is the optimal digit compatibility solution.]
> is it o.k. to say that 1 ml is equal to 1 cm3
Yes, since 1964, they have been exactly the same thing.
> also what's the difference between cc and cm3?
cc is an English abbreviation of the words "cubic centimeter". It is not
defined in the SI standard and you should not use it. "mL" is as easy to
write and pronounce as "cc", so better use "mL" instead. You can use
cm^3 or ml or mL whatever you prefer, but please not cc.
Markus
-- 
Markus Kuhn, Computer Science grad student, Purdue
University, Indiana, US, email: kuhn@cs.purdue.edu
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Subject: Re: Teaching Science Myth
From: "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:46:33 -0800
Helge Moulding wrote:
> But 
> if you can't understand the basis of the scientific method, none of
> this matters.
> I am back to asking, how do we actually acquaint science students with
> the scientific method? Lemme suggest this test. If a student can *do*
> the scientific method *without* knowing what it is called or what the
> definition of the term "scientific method" is, then a science teacher
> has succeeded. I think most science teachers fail by this test.
I have been, by some definitions, a science "teacher" for 30 years,
plus. I have never pretended to know a damn thing about teaching,
having never received any instruction in teaching.  All I know is
if the students do what I tell them to do they WILL learn, including
how to think and work in a scientific manner. Looking back, I have
had spectacular successes and spectacular failures. Perhaps those
who don't learn under me would have done much better under someone
who knew something about teaching, perhaps not. Last year I met two
of my ex-students who have gone into business for themselves. I
apologized to them for not being able to give them more background
for the work they are now doing, and they both said the same thing:
"You did something much more important. You taught us how to think."
I was on cloud nine for the next week.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: caj@sherlock.math.niu.edu (Xcott Craver)
Date: 15 Nov 1996 21:52:20 GMT
Judson McClendon   wrote:
>IG (Slim) Simpson wrote:
>> Why quote from a book that , for the most part, I don't accept. If I
>> quote from the Koran (Sp?) will it make any difference to you??
>
>"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any
>two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and
>of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of
>the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)
	Mr. McClendon,
	I'm not sure you got the point of Slim's post.  His point was,
(and it's quite valid, I believe) that if someone does not accept the
Bible as the truth, isn't quoting *FROM* the Bible quite obviously the
least effective way to convince him of anything?
	I have seen some reasonable arguments for the upholding of 
Christian principles, or for the accuracy of the Bible or other holy
books; none of them rested on the actual book's _content_, because it
was the validity of said content that was in question. 	
	If I wanted to convince you that natural selection created 
humankind (that is, if I *wanted* to), I would perhaps point to the 
current body of evidence that supports it, or at least to the 
scientific principles violated by different versions of creation
theories.  I most certainly wouldn't try to convince you by 
liberally quoting the wit and wisdom Charles Darwin, the person 
whose opinions on origins you are completely opposed to, a person 
whom you wouldn't trust to begin with!  Isn't this obvious?  You're
doing more or less the same thing by quoting the Bible.
	Perhaps a less dogmatic approach would be more effective.
>Judson McClendon
>Sun Valley Systems    judsonmc@ix.netcom.com
						Hugs and Spiff!,
						Caj
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Subject: Re: Teaching Science Myth
From: carrelda@pore.dnet.dupont.com (David Carrell)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 09:26:07 GMT
In article ,
   peter@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:
>In article <56f04q$n3m@phunn1.sbphrd.com>,
>Frank_Hollis-1@sbphrd.com.see-sig (Triple Quadrophenic) wrote:
>
>>That's one.
>
>What could you possibly mean by that?
>
If you two aren't careful, you are going to get your rods/lines tangled :)
Then what can you catch?
DAC
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