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Subject: Re: Diameter of the earth. -- From: folsomman@aol.com (FolsomMan)
Subject: Re: Basic math physics question.. -- From: "Peter Diehr"
Subject: Re: A Theory of Everything -- From: "Peter Diehr"
Subject: Re: FTL Comm -- From: Sylvia Else
Subject: Could someone help... -- From: JRANCK@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Diameter of the earth. -- From: folsomman@aol.com (FolsomMan)
Subject: Re: PH.D.s are useless -- From: Judson McClendon
Subject: Re: deciding on a career -- From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution -- From: fireweaver@insync.net (erikc)
Subject: Re: More Mars Rock Crock! -- From: casanova@crosslink.net (Bob Casanova)
Subject: Re: paradox -- From: lbsys@aol.com
Subject: Re: PH.D.s are useless -- From: myers@netaxs.com (Paul Z. Myers)
Subject: Re: A few dark matter questions -- From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock! -- From: dietz@interaccess.com (Paul F. Dietz)
Subject: Re: Can light be accelerated or decelerated? -- From: kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer)
Subject: Re: THE UNIVERSE - HOW IT WORKS -- From: ericf@central.co.nz (Eric Flesch)
Subject: Re: PH.D.s are useless -- From: czar@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock! -- From: Simon Read
Subject: Re: Do people see colours the same? -- From: lbsys@aol.com
Subject: Re: Idle query: how good are math and science teaching outside the U.S.? -- From: m94jbr@sabik.tdb.uu.se (Johan Braennlund)
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation? -- From: Keith Stein
Subject: A Vacuous Problem. -- From: Keith Stein
Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock! -- From: =eat-me@designated-mealtimes.org= ( >>>--->Word Warrior<---<<< )
Subject: Re: Electromagnet strength -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: Re: Single slit question - please help! -- From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Subject: The time structure of our solar system -- From: mj5ertle@ix.netcom.com(Jon David Ertle)
Subject: IS THERE A CASE FOR THE ELECTRIC CAR? -- From: ako@crl.com (Vlado Bevc)
Subject: Re: Harmonic Resonance -- From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew H. Fields)
Subject: Re: Do people see colours the same? -- From: ericf@central.co.nz (Eric Flesch)
Subject: Re: Color of light bent in gravitation lens? -- From: Erik Max Francis
Subject: Re: Color of light bent in gravitation lens? -- From: Erik Max Francis
Subject: Re: Color of light bent in gravitation lens? -- From: Erik Max Francis
Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock! -- From: =eat-me@designated-mealtimes.org= ( >>>--->Word Warrior<---<<< )
Subject: Re: Diameter of the earth. -- From: Richard Mentock
Subject: plays on science -- From: trothman@cfa0.harvard.edu (Tony Rothman)
Subject: Re: Infinitude of Primes in P-adics -- From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution -- From: Capella
Subject: Re: 1 / 2^.5 or 2^.5 / 2? -- From: Erik Max Francis
Subject: Re: 1 / 2^.5 or 2^.5 / 2? -- From: Erik Max Francis
Subject: Re: 1 / 2^.5 or 2^.5 / 2? -- From: Erik Max Francis

Articles

Subject: Re: Diameter of the earth.
From: folsomman@aol.com (FolsomMan)
Date: 11 Jan 1997 23:23:21 GMT
Richard Mentock  wrote:
>FolsomMan wrote:
>> 
>> kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer) wrote:
>> 
>> >...
>> >        I think 7920 miles should be close enough for
>> >your purpose, but I have heard that if the Earth was
>> >the size of a billiard ball, it would be just as smoooth,
>> >the mountains only 6 miles in height compared to the
>> >diameter of 7920 miles.
>> 
>> This is almost as good as the toilet vortex direction vs hemisphere
>> nonsense.  If you call the diameter of a billiard ball ~2 inches, then
a
>> feature about 1/1000 of its diameter would be .002 inches.  I happen to
be
>> familiar with surface roughness standards and I would be very surprised
if
>> the finish on a billiard ball is any rougher than 16 microinches rms. 
125
>> microinches is like a bastard file or worse.  Would anyone like to
verify
>> that a billiard ball has 2000 microinch roughness features?
>Yes.  I called Brunswick a couple years ago, and got their tolerances.
>They said their better balls were specced so that the average diameter
>had to be 2.25 inches (+.008 or -.005), and then the deviation from
>the average had to be +/- .002 inches.  Thus, Earth would appear
>to make it with a couple miles to spare, even dispensing with the
>oceans.  The ol' Earth would be as smooth as a billiard ball, but too 
>much out of round (the Earth is flattened at the poles by 3 times the
>height of its topography.)
Diameter tolerances are not the same as roughness.  You seem not to
understand the difference.  Diameter tolerance is not surface finish.  The
flattened poles would come under the tolerances you cite, but mountains
would not.
>Everest may be 6 miles high but it sits on a large plateau.
>It's not like the features of a rasp, where the rise angle is great.
>Geologic cross-sections typically exaggerate the vertical by more than
>an order of magnitude.
That's great but it still doesn't make your point.
Mark Folsom, P.E.
Consulting Mechanical Engineer
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Subject: Re: Basic math physics question..
From: "Peter Diehr"
Date: 11 Jan 1997 00:01:58 GMT
Ken Fischer  wrote in article
...
> Bryan W. Reed (breed@HARLIE.ee.cornell.edu) wrote:
> : Gregory Fromer   wrote:
> : >	I have been having some trouble understanding some math
principals
> : >and operations that are used in physics formulas.. Like for
instance:
> : >
> : >	1/2MV^2 for kenetic energy
> : >
> : >What exactly is the purpose of squareing the velocity times the
mass and
> : >finding half of that? What is the purpose of squareing the
velocity, and
> : >takeing half of the system?
> 
>          I have been trying to figure this out, and knowing
> that the definition of kinetic energy is "that amount of energy
> required to bring one object to rest in another objects rest
> frame" should be of some help.
> 
> momentum = mv
> 
> can all be put together to arrive at 1/2 mv^2
> 
If you integrate momentum against time (i.e., how long the momentum
was applied), then you get 1/2 mv^2.   We can also write this as 
p^2 / 2m.
An interesting reason for mv^2 comes from the nature of geometry:
ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2  is the Pythagorean theorem written in
terms
of differentials.  As "we all know", the length (squared) is an
invariant
of a metric space.  Riemann used this approach to develop
differential
geometry, which can be used to handle both flat and curved spaces.
If we define the metric of our space as ds^2 = 1/2 m (dx^2 + dy^2 +
dz^2),
then  (ds/dt)^2 = 1/2 m v^2.
If we have many particles (let's agree that there are N of them),
each with its
own coordinates and masses, we can define a metric for a 3N
dimensional
configuration space as dS^2 = sum of all the ds^2.  Now a single
point in
this 3N dimensional configuration space describes (fully) the
interaction-
free state of the N original particles.
But dS^2 isn't quite Euclidean, because the mass scalings are
different
for different particles.  If we were to add some kinematical
constraints
(like a floor, or some surface that limits the particle motion),
then we
could get a truly curved space metric.  Shades of General
Relativity!
Anyway, this relates to your question, at least about the mv^2 part,
by
means of the metric of the space; where the metric is here given in
terms
of the differential line element.
Invariants of the geometry often correspond to important physical
notions.
In this case, we can also see how the energy controls the motion by 
through its relation with the metric.
Best Regards, Peter
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Subject: Re: A Theory of Everything
From: "Peter Diehr"
Date: 11 Jan 1997 00:06:49 GMT
Paul White  wrote in article
<32d61304.1921606@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
> "Peter Diehr"  wrote:
> 
> >Try "In the beginning ...".  This is a time-tested formula for
all
> >such theories.
> >It also lays your cards on the table.
> 
> 
> "Once upon a time...."  is catchier.
> 
> 
Ah, but it is much harder to ascertain the initial conditions,
unless
you are very, very lucky. ;-)
Best Regards, Peter
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Subject: Re: FTL Comm
From: Sylvia Else
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:52:26 -0800
Robert Rodgers wrote:
> Just curious, but what's wrong with the paired photon idea for FTL
> communication?  Suppose you could design a photon trap that would
> store 1 mole of photons so they would be released serially, 10 billion
> per second or so, and that across space you had their twins coming out
> at the same rate and spit through a polarizer that either set them on
> (horiz) or off (vert).
What's wrong with it is the notion that a polarizer _sets_ the 
polarization of a photon. It doesn't. What it does is to _measure_ the 
photon's polarization state. The paired photon must then have the same 
state, but since it had a 50-50 chance of having either state anyway, 
this doesn't convey any information when its polarization state is 
measured.
> (I guess two obvious questions are, how do you design a light trap
> that would let you do this, and how do you pump a mole of photons into
> it.)
They're certainly good questions, but look to me like a problem in 
engineering more than anything.
Sylvia.
**** Sending me email? Note, my real email address is sylvia@zip.com.au, 
**** and not as specified in the header.
**** I consistently approach the administrators of systems from which I
**** receive junk mail.
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Subject: Could someone help...
From: JRANCK@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:34:58 -0500
Could someone please help me with a momentum problem for a high school
physics class?
A 100 kg raft carries 2 swimmers of mass 50 and 70 kg.  The 70 kg
swimmer jumps off in the positive direction at 3 m/s.  The 50 kg swimmer
stays on the raft for another 3 sec. before jumping off in the negative
direction at 7 m/s.  Neglecting any friction, where is the raft,
relative to the original starting point (0), 10 sec. after the first
swimmer (70 kg) dove in?
(50 kg swimmer)			(70 kg swimmer)
_______________________________________
			(100 kg raft)
(neg.)------------0---------------(pos.)
Thanks for any help you could give me.
Mike Ranck
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Subject: Re: Diameter of the earth.
From: folsomman@aol.com (FolsomMan)
Date: 11 Jan 1997 23:29:12 GMT
kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer) wrote:
>FolsomMan (folsomman@aol.com) wrote:
>: kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer) wrote:
>: >        I think 7920 miles should be close enough for
>: >your purpose, but I have heard that if the Earth was
>: >the size of a billiard ball, it would be just as smoooth,
>: >the mountains only 6 miles in height compared to the 
>: >diameter of 7920 miles.
>: This is almost as good as the toilet vortex direction vs hemisphere
>: nonsense.  If you call the diameter of a billiard ball ~2 inches, then
a
>: feature about 1/1000 of its diameter would be .002 inches.  I happen to
be
>: familiar with surface roughness standards and I would be very surprised
if
>: the finish on a billiard ball is any rougher than 16 microinches rms. 
125
>: microinches is like a bastard file or worse.  Would anyone like to
verify
>: that a billiard ball has 2000 microinch roughness features?
>: Mark Folsom, P.E.
>        It would depend on the billiard ball, a new one
>may be almost perfect, some  old ones may easily have
>.002 scratches, but I didn't mean that too literally,
>just that it seems like a futile exercise to try to
>draw the Earth to scale, I think the global topography
>is exagerated quite a bit.
Most maps and globes are greatly exaggerated in terms of altitude, but
also skip over very narrow peaks and valleys.  Some parts of the Earth are
much rougher in proportion than is a billiard ball.
Mark Folsom, P.E.
Consulting Mechanical Engineer
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Subject: Re: PH.D.s are useless
From: Judson McClendon
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:42:33 -0600
Tim Harwood wrote:
> 
> It was revelaed in the Sunday Times over Christamas, those with a PH.D.
> in economics are 40 % worse at economic forecasting that those without.
> ( This is absolutely true, don't flame me for this, read David Smiths
> round-up of the economic forcasts for 1996 ).
> 
> Confirmed what I've always thought, academics with lots of with initials
> after their names can't see the wood for the trees. Lost in irrelevant
> detail, they lose all track of reality.
This post sure kicked up a lot of dust! :)
I do not think that all the flying posts on this particular topic are
touching on the actual facts of this issue.  The real issue is that you
simply *cannot* equate education with intelligence and/or ability. 
Education is usually a great help in developing certain kinds of
ability, and virtually essential in developing other kinds of ability. 
But education does not, can not, create ability!
Anyone who has worked in an environment where there is significant
objective indication of how well a person actually makes use of their
intelligence/abilities knows that there are well educated incompetents
and less well educated extremely competent people.
No doubt there is a correlation between education and ability, but not
primarily for the reason one might think.  I believe the greatest part
of this correlation is because more intelligent/able people are more
likely to seek and obtain a higher education, and much less so because
of the actual benefits of the education, real as they are.
In other words, a very talented and competent person will be so with or
without an education, though better so with the education.  An
incompetent will be so with or without an education, and the education
doesn't seem to do much good.
-- 
Judson McClendon          This is a faithful saying and worthy of all
Sun Valley Systems        acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the
judsonmc@ix.netcom.com    world to save sinners  (1 Timothy 1:15)
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Subject: Re: deciding on a career
From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:32:20 GMT
In article <5b96d5$1ihc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, ale2@psu.edu (ale2) writes:
>In article <32D6FAC8.592@quadrant.net>
>"Bruce C. Fielder"  writes:
>
>
>> On the plus side, it beats heavy lifting.
>> 
>
>But heavy lifting keeps the heart healthy. How many scientists do we
>lose too early to health problems?
How you define "too early".  I'm sure that, given current scarcity of 
research positions, many of the newly minted PhDs would say 
(anonymously, of course) "not early enough" :-)
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: fireweaver@insync.net (erikc)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:56:23 GMT
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:21:58 -0600
Capella 
as message <32D6F946.7A7E@airmail.net>
-- posted from: alt.atheism:
>|erikc wrote:
>|> 
>|> On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 06:17:20 -0500
>|> Trish 
>|> as message <32D38240.3DF4@gte.net>
>|> -- posted from: alt.atheism:
>|> 
>|> [snip]
>|> >|
>|> >|Do you imply that humans have the ability of an "afterlife" because we
>|> >|have fully developed speech?  The differences I discuss are non culture
>|> >|related and non physical.  Hell .. we can probably toss out self
>|> >|awareness as well.  Chimps have self awareness.
>|> 
>|> So do fundys.
>|> 
>|> >|
>|> >|Trish
>|> 
>|> Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net
>|> 
>|> Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include
>|> diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
>|> 
>|> Wanna see how sick some fundies are?
>|> http://www.christiangallery.com/    (home page)
>|> http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever)
>|> /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */
>|
>|
>|Don't misunderstand, we are not in any way comparing the mental capacity
>|of fundies and chimps. Chimps don't believe in ridiculous non-existent
>|gods... ;-)
I wasn't trying to imply that fundies up to the mental capacity of chimpanzees
-- only that they had sufficient neural matter to possess self-awareness.
>|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>|Capella         
>|Dallas, Texas
Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net
Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include
diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
Wanna see how sick some fundies are?
http://www.christiangallery.com/    (home page)
http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever)
/* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */
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Subject: Re: More Mars Rock Crock!
From: casanova@crosslink.net (Bob Casanova)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:56:51 GMT
On 11 Jan 97 15:18:57 GMT, in sci.skeptic, Simon Read
 wrote:
>casanova@crosslink.net (Bob Casanova) wrote:
>>
>>Isn't this the reason for the gaps in Saturn's ring structure?
>
>Interesting. Do you have any data on the periods of any objects which
>would be in the ring gaps, and the periods of Saturn's satellites?
Nope. I just thought I remembered reading (how's *that* for a definite
cite?) that the ring gaps were at the correct distances to have been
caused by resonance effects (presumably among the ring
bodies/particles?) and wanted to know if anyone knowledgeable could
confirm it.
>
>This sort of equates rings with asteroids. In other words,
>the Sun's got rings. Purely semantic I know, but very pretty.
I never thought of it that way, but it *does* sound almost poetic.
>
>Simooooooooooon
>
(Note followups, if any)
Bob C.
"No one's life, liberty or property is safe while
 the legislature is in session." - Mark Twain
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Subject: Re: paradox
From: lbsys@aol.com
Date: 11 Jan 1997 23:24:56 GMT
Im Artikel <5b5efs$t7j@btmpjg.god.bel.alcatel.be>, pver@nemdev26 (Peter
Verthez) schreibt:
>I think you meant something else instead of negation...  Anyway the
negation
>of "all ravens are black" is "there is a raven that is not black".
Sorry, no. The correct 'logic' negation is: NOT(all ravens are black).
That can mean anything from "at least one raven is not black" over "some
ravens are not black" and "no ravens are black = all ravens are not black"
to "there's no ravens at all (thus they are not black)".
Puhh. Language is very ambivalent, when it comes to negations, and usually
we simply choose "the oppposite" (black / white, hot / cold etc.), but
unfortunately this is misleading quite often (yup Mati, Ed and BAH, we've
been through that not so long ago, haven't we?)
Cheerio
The most dangerous untruths are truths slightly deformed.
Lichtenberg, Sudelbuecher
__________________________________
Lorenz Borsche
Per the FCA: this eMail adress is not to 
be added to any commercial mailing list.
Uncalled for eMail maybe treated as public.
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Subject: Re: PH.D.s are useless
From: myers@netaxs.com (Paul Z. Myers)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:25:30 -0500
In article <32D81D76.6DF8@wehi.edu.au>, John Wilkins 
wrote:
> czar@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
> > 
> > Allen R. Sampson (ars@mcs.com) wrote:
> > 
> > : Only a philosopher could wax so poetically on this.  In reality, I think
> > : 99.9% of philosophy in the USA is done in bars, where no thinking occurs.
> > 
> > I'd personally go out on a limb and say that that was the case for the
> > majority of philosophy throughout history.  Who was it that said
> > (something like) "In wine, there is truth."?
> 
> At such philosophical conferences as I have attended in Australia, the 
> usual procedure is for the papers to get read and then everybody goes 
> off and gets plastered, and either sits together and boozily discusses 
> modal logic or stands around the nearest piano and sings very loudly 
> off-key. *This* is the One True Philosophical Method [tm], bugger 
> Descartes.
Wow, you mean that old Monty Python skit wasn't a spoof, it was really
true? And are all Australian philosophers named Bruce? (well, I guess
you aren't...but maybe after enough beers everyone calls you Bruce
anyway?)
-- 
Paul Myers                               Department of Biology
myers@netaxs.com                         Temple University
http://fishnet.bio.temple.edu/           Philadelphia, PA 19122
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Subject: Re: A few dark matter questions
From: meron@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:25:58 GMT
In article <32d8050f.7041866@pubnews.demon.co.uk>, ericf@central.co.nz (Eric Flesch) writes:
>On 7 Jan 1997 15:45:12 GMT, kunk@perseus.phys.unm.edu () wrote:
>>Bayes, of course, wrote a perfectly sensible theorem addressing the
>>inclusion of prior results in calculation of probabilities.  It allows
>>us to make sensible statements about the probability of a concluded
>>event, which we all do instinctively anyway.  The only use of Bayes
>>theorem of which I am aware in my field is in an analysis of the 
>>neutrinos detected from SN87A.
>
>The heart of Bayesian analysis is that the experimenters' expectations
>actually influence the final data collected, as the experimenters
>select among the methods and results, consciously or unconsciously.
No, not this way.  The experimenters' expectations do influence the 
results through the assignment of initial probability values.  From 
this point on all new data is to be used to modify the probabilities 
so that at the limit of infinitely long chain of experiments the 
experimental values converge to the "true ones" (whatever that means) 
regardless of the initial assignment.
The issue of "experimenters selecting among the methods and results, 
consciously or unconsciously", while being real and problematic, has 
nothing to do with Bayesian analysis.
Mati Meron			| "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu		|  chances are he is doing just the same"
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Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock!
From: dietz@interaccess.com (Paul F. Dietz)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:01:15 GMT
Simon Read  wrote:
>>One blindingly obvious reason that it is wrong is that the natural
>>radioactivity in our bodies is always going to damage a few cells and the
>>repair mechanisms aren't perfect.
>Well, you may work for CERN and hence glow in the dark, but that isn't
>everyone's experience.
>Just which radionucleotides are present in your body?
I don't know what radionucleotides are in his body, but among
the radio*nuclides* are potassium-40 and carbon-14, both of which
have substantial natural sources.
I've thought that isotopically purified light potassium salts would be
a great product for the radiophobic.
	Paul
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Subject: Re: Can light be accelerated or decelerated?
From: kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:48:35 GMT
Jason Kodish (jkodish@thwap.nl2k.edmonton.ab.ca) wrote:
: In article <32d4588a.3369270@news> abz@gnn.com writes:
: >
: >Sheesh, I'm only in high school...never heard of general relativity until
: >recently...on the internet...not from the school...
: Well, the Internet is great that way. If you can find John Baez, he'll 
: direct you towards a nice GR tutorial. Get a jump on the others and learn
: it now :-)
        Good idea, but at the same time, learn Newtonian
Gravitation well!  ( I can't believe I said that.) :-)
: I guess light is in a sense accellerated, by the equivilance principle....
: Jason Kodish
: Thirring Institute for Applied Gravitational Research
: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/1659
        Hardly, I don't know of an falling objects accelerated
by gravity in terms of the Principle of Equivalence (or even
the Equivalence Principle, for that matter). :-)
Kenneth Edmund Fischer - Inventor of Stealth Shapes - U.S. Pat. 5,488,372 
Divergent Matter GUT of Gravitation http://www.iglou.com/members/kfischer 
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Subject: Re: THE UNIVERSE - HOW IT WORKS
From: ericf@central.co.nz (Eric Flesch)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:46:31 GMT
mumble, mumble...
where do I keep my killfile...
< squelch >   :-)
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Subject: Re: PH.D.s are useless
From: czar@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Date: 11 Jan 1997 15:42:57 GMT
Allen R. Sampson (ars@mcs.com) wrote:
: Only a philosopher could wax so poetically on this.  In reality, I think
: 99.9% of philosophy in the USA is done in bars, where no thinking occurs.  
I'd personally go out on a limb and say that that was the case for the
majority of philosophy throughout history.  Who was it that said
(something like) "In wine, there is truth."?
: This is not meant as a comment on philosophy, rather on the state of the
: American culture.
Good oxymoron! ;)
--
******************************
   Me fail English?
   That's unpossible!
             - Ralph Wiggum
******************************
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Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock!
From: Simon Read
Date: 11 Jan 97 19:38:53 GMT
Anthony Potts  wrote:
> Hell, even the natural replacement of cells is enough to cause cancer.
Only if there are genetic defects or carcinogenic agents corrupting
the DNA.
>One blindingly obvious reason that it is wrong is that the natural
>radioactivity in our bodies is always going to damage a few cells and the
>repair mechanisms aren't perfect.
Well, you may work for CERN and hence glow in the dark, but that isn't
everyone's experience.
Just which radionucleotides are present in your body?
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Do people see colours the same?
From: lbsys@aol.com
Date: 11 Jan 1997 23:24:52 GMT
Im Artikel <852992627.9125.0@hotdog.demon.co.uk>,
cmartin@hotdog.demon.co.uk (Christian Martin) schreibt:
>Is there any evidence that different people see different
>colours (sorry, UK!) the same?  For instance, is my 'red'
>someone else's 'green'?  I have thought about this for a 
>long time, but even if you consider frequencies used 
>(say 4.3x10^14Hz), everybody could call this 'red' while
>some may see it as my green (but call it red) and some 
>may see it as my 'purple' (but call it red).
Ok: Here's the hypothesis: All people see all same colours the same (ahem,
NOT: different colours the same ;-). Let's do the good ole Popperian
approach and try to disprove it: Special case: One "people" sees all same
colours the same. Sounds stupid? Well, I have two eyes :-) ....
Actually certain kinds of green do appear different for me when viewed
with either the right eye or the left one. A good example is fir trees in
the afternoon sunlight. The right eye sees them more blueish-green,
whereas the left eye tends to produce rather a yellowish-green (sounds
like Agfa vs. Kodak).
Thus: If even I myself do not see the same colour as the same, how should
two different people see it the same (the second person would have to have
the same difference in the green range as me...).
BTW: a related question would be: do two people hear the same tone the
same??? Well, I could tell you, that I happen to have two ears........
Cheerio
The most dangerous untruths are truths slightly deformed.
Lichtenberg, Sudelbuecher
__________________________________
Lorenz Borsche
Per the FCA: this eMail adress is not to 
be added to any commercial mailing list.
Uncalled for eMail maybe treated as public.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Idle query: how good are math and science teaching outside the U.S.?
From: m94jbr@sabik.tdb.uu.se (Johan Braennlund)
Date: 11 Jan 1997 17:22:16 GMT
Michael Weiss (columbus@pleides.osf.org) wrote:
: Anyway, whatever the truth about the U.S., I'd be interested in
: hearing impressions from other countries.  If you, kind reader, were
: educated outside the U.S. and still reside there, what is your feeling
: about the average level of math and science instruction in your
: country?  Has it declined over the years?  How would you assess it
: today?
I live in Sweden, and here the level has certainly declined over the
last few decades. When my father was in high school, they were doing
things like introductory fourier analysis and calculus of several
variables, and you won't see anything like that now.  Things were
probably more elitist back then - you had a few people who excelled
and many who understood little - but that's a problem of dividing
the students into appropriate groups, not of the level of education
itself.
     For some reason (probably ideological, since most of
the governments we've had here since WW II have been socialist)
students are not put in groups corresponding to their interests
and/or abilities until 7th grade, and then only in math and English.
This reminds me of the old joke of the guy who put one foot in iced
water and the other in scorching hot water and said he has comfortable
on the average. I think the approach of keeping everyone in the same
group has a lot of disadvantages - you either cater to the lowest
common denominator and hamper the faster students or speed things up
and leave the slower ones behind.
     When I started high school, seven years ago, you got to choose
your program of study according to what you were most interested in:
science/engineering, social sciences, languages, or more vocational
things such as carpentry or hairdressing and you followed a pre-
designed program, so you didn't get to choose the classes yourself.
The math and science education I got in high school was pretty good -
nothing like the one people got twenty years ago, but still okay. On
the math side, the things we studied are similar to what is studied in
the US, but I think there is a little more emphasis on understanding,
doing simple proofs and things like that, instead of the more mechanical
plug-in-the-numbers approach that seems to be prevalent in the US.
     A few years ago, high school here was revamped into a system
very similar to the American one, where you got to choose all the
classes yourself, as long as you meet the requirements for graduation.
One of the consequences of this is that the introductory math classes
contain both carpentry students and those who are going to study
math and science. There's been a lot of complaints about this
system already, but the politicians are probably too pigheaded to
change it, so I fear things will go the same way here as they have
done in the US, unless something is done.
     On the university side, things aren't looking very good either.
The funding for basic research has been cut dramatically, so much
that it was even critized by this year's Nobel prize winners, and
they aren't exactly known for making political comments. Also,
"political correctness" seems to be the catchphrase of the day at
the Department of Education - there's been a number of science
professorships that by the government's decision *only women may
apply for*. According to the diehard feminist who was hired by
the DoE to investigate gender inequality among university faculty,
this is a good way to bring more women into the sciences.
Well, I'd better quit... this is getting too long, and now that I'm
worked up about this I might say something I'll regret; the NNTP
servers have ears :-) .
Return to Top
Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Time Dilation?
From: Keith Stein
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:03:48 +0000
 Louis Savain  writes
> Concepts like geodesics and inertial paths in spacetime
>>>are simply dumb.
                right!
>  And no amount of rationalization or
>>>obfuscation is going to change that.
                right!
>  Too bad some of you are having
>>>trouble grasping this.  And also, too bad if some of you take offense.
                right!
> Time is always derived by applying the equation t = d/v.
                Wrong! 
     Surely the concept 'time' must preceed the concept of 'velocity'.
     What is your definition for 'v' in the above equation, Louis ?
>>  What is new in this century is the unification of space and time.
>  Which is the biggest nonsense to ever come out of science.
                right! 
-- 
Keith Stein
Return to Top
Subject: A Vacuous Problem.
From: Keith Stein
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:15:08 +0000
 What happens when AN ELECTRON MEETS A POSITRON IN A VACUUM ?
                        +e -> ? <- -e
 We can't balance energy and momentum after they collide. Right?
 THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE WHO BELEIVES IN  'A VACUUM', RIGHT :-?
-- 
Keith Stein
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Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock!
From: =eat-me@designated-mealtimes.org= ( >>>--->Word Warrior<---<<< )
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:02:38 GMT
aranders@kosepc01.delcoelect.com (Alan Anderson) wrote:
>In <5b11af$gv5@dropit.pgh.net>, 
>=green@pipeline.com= (Word Warrior) writes:
>>The immune system is quite capable of fending off damage
>>from external sources of damage when it is properly
>>fueled and managed.
>Even assuming this to be true (which it almost certainly isn't -- that's
>why carcinogens and ionizing radiation can cause cancer), 
"Can" is not "necessarily does".
>you can't just
>neglect *internal* sources of damage.  Cellular DNA replication isn't an
>error-free process, for one thing.
Do you claim you know the origins/causes of those errors?
_____________________________________________________________________________
|Respectfully, Sheila          ~~~Word Warrior~~~         green@pipeline.com|
|Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:|
| This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up|
| on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.|
| *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Electromagnet strength
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 12 Jan 1997 00:24:28 GMT
Holly  wrote:
>Hi! Can anyone help me with a problem - how can I measure the strength
>of an electromagnet if I change a)the current and b)number of turns of
>solenoid? Someone suggested testing it with a Newton metre, but that's
>not very accurate. As I'm in UK Yr11 at school, I would appreciate help
>on this which doesn't sound like it's for Uni students! Thanks. Holly.
>Holly Skelton - Shawn@notlex.demon.co.uk
>
Put in a standard ferromagentic core and see how much weight (e.g., how 
many paper clips or iron filings) you can lift.  As a unit of magnetic 
field strength sums to "ampere-turns," you should come to certain 
conclusions.
Coil geometry is also important.  The densest field is generated by a 
coil whose diameter equals its length (e.g., a cylinder with the maximum 
volume/surface area).
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Single slit question - please help!
From: Alan \"Uncle Al\" Schwartz
Date: 12 Jan 1997 00:13:00 GMT
cmartin@hotdog.demon.co.uk (Christian Martin) wrote:
>Apoligies if this is off-topic.
>
>My girlfriend and I both do 'A'-level physics in the UK and we have a
>bet on th following:
>
>When white light (ie not monochromatic) is shone through a single
>slit, do you get:
>
>a) an inteference pattern
>b) any colour separation (ie do you see different colours)
>
>My answer would be no to both, but I'm not sure...
>
>I would be very grateful for any answers...
I hope you are playing to lose, perhaps after quaffing a Pangalactic 
Gargle Blaster.
Look a the equation for single slit interference.  See the wavelength 
dependence?  Each frequency of light will display its own single slit 
pattern.  As the white light source is not coherent, they will all nicely 
ignore one another on the average.  You will thus get a continuous 
superposition of any number of single slit patterns with chromatic 
aberration -  rainblow fringes
How do you think a diffraction grating disperses a spectrum?
Suppose we knocked out a dimension and used a pinhole.  Pinhole cameras 
image in color - with nasty chromatic aberration.  If you image the sun 
with a >long< pinhole camera, you need to use a narrow band color filter 
to get a clean image.
Try it out with a flashlight, a piece of aluminum foil with a razor slit, 
and a white piece of paper spaced behind as a screen.
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
Return to Top
Subject: The time structure of our solar system
From: mj5ertle@ix.netcom.com(Jon David Ertle)
Date: 12 Jan 1997 00:03:15 GMT
It is interesting that there are values operating about and within us
we do not have a clue as to how they operate, or that they operate at
all.  One of the interesting things to have been considered is that
there is a particular time value to all the planets of our solar
system, and even our moon (I didn't work it out for the planet Pluto)
one would not expect.
The force of earth's gravitational field is actually a field of time,
c2=E/m, also able to be valued as 15.4 days real physical time or
0.00444 kg. mass.  Because this force has not been easily recognized,
one of the interesting aspects of our solar system has been totally
neglected, and due to this neglect an important feature of our planet
and sun have been wrongly reasoned.  The following are going to be core
point values of different solar bodies in real physical time as they
compare to an object upon their individual surfaces.  In almost all the
instances it shall become evident that were a mass to be held in ones
hand near the core point and then released, the newly released mass
would accelerated to the speed of light within one second, which means
a mass in that position could not exist apart from accelerating into
energy in form of electromagnetic radiation.
First, and perhaps most interesting for your comtemplation, is the fact
that mass cannot exist within a 400 mile distance to the core point of
our sun.  At that point all mass converts into electromagnetic
radiation.  There is a 800 mile hollow within our sun where mass cannot
exist.  Furthermore, this means that the core of stars are not
converting hydrogen into helium, rather they are directly converting
all mass as it reaches a particular location directly into
electromagnetic energy.  The physical time difference between the core
point of the sun and an object on its surface is 13,903.87 YEARS.
Mercury has a physical time difference of 20.30 hours.
Venus has a physical time difference of 9.28 days.
Earth moon has a physical time difference of 4.54 hours.
Mars has a physical time difference of 1.64 days.
Jupiter has a physical time difference of 13.27 years.
Saturn has a physical time difference of 5.95 years.
Uranus has a physical time difference of 221.86 days.
Neptune has a physical time difference of 257.60 days.
It is interesting that our planet, when a person reaches the 0.717 mile
distance from the core point, has a gravitational field that will
accelerate a mass in the position to the speed of light.  So, then, our
planet itself has a spherical hollow within of almost one and one-half
miles where mass cannot exist without converting into electromagnetic
energy.  Though mathmatically this is true, we are taught that it is
composed of iron and nickel.  What do you think.
mj5ertle2ix.netcom.com
Return to Top
Subject: IS THERE A CASE FOR THE ELECTRIC CAR?
From: ako@crl.com (Vlado Bevc)
Date: 11 Jan 1997 14:26:12 -0800
COMMENT ON DAN SPERLING'S  ARTICLE  PROMOTING  ELECTRIC  CARS  IN
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, NOVEMBER 1996, P.54:
IS THERE A CASE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES?
Vlado Bevc Synergy Research Institute P.O. Box 561, San Ramon, CA
94583
     In trying to make a case for electric vehicles it  would  be
desirable  to  clearly state the objectives of what impact is ex-
pected on the present environment. There are  194  million  motor
vehicles  in  the  United States 146 million of which are automo-
biles.  These motor vehicles travel  a  total  of  2,300  billion
miles  per year consuming 137 billion gallons.[1] About 6 million
internal combustion engine powered vehicles are registered in the
Los  Angeles  county [2] and probably as many in New York. World-
wide 36 million automobiles are produced annually.[3]
     The objective of the zero emission program could be replace-
ment  of  all  internal combustion engine driven vehicles by zero
emission vehicles, or replacement of internal combustion vehicles
only  in those urban areas where they are highly concentrated, or
perhaps the objective could only be compliance with the  mandates
handed  down by the air resources boards in the various states in
the hope that mandatory sales of electric  vehicles  may  somehow
bring  forth  new  technological  developments. If we are talking
about no more than 5,000 electric cars, as the  author  seems  to
indicate,  their effect on the environment and the electric power
generation system would be minimal but if we are considering  re-
placement  on  a  scale that would approach the present number of
conventional cars we have to consider the effect on the air qual-
ity,  discharges of lead and other heavy metals and the demand of
the electric power generating systems.
     While the conversion of energy  from  storage  cells  in  an
electric  automobile  may  be  more  efficient than conversion of
gasoline to mechanical work the energy stored  in  the  batteries
comes  from  the  electric  generating  systems the efficiency of
which is only a few percent higher than that  of  the  individual
internal  combustion engine.  For the electric car the conversion
of energy from the fuel to the "drive" simply starts at the elec-
tric  power plant rather than in the engine. The implication that
the electric car has a 90 percent energy conversion efficiency is
therefore  misleading.  The  question is not how efficient is the
motor but rather how efficient is the  entire  process  from  the
electric power generation plant to the propulsion mechanism.
     Sperling allows that the overall advantage over the internal
combustion  engine  driven  vehicle  amounts to a mere 5 percent.
This advantage may well be offset by other disadvantages such  as
transmission  and charging losses for which we do not have a good
accounting. In estimates of this kind 5 percent figure implies  a
marginal  advantage which could be readily offset by aging of the
storage battery, line and charging losses. From Southern Califor-
nia Edison Company's promotional literature, for instance, it ap-
pears that 18 percent of energy used in charging up  General  Mo-
tors' EV1 vehicle is lost in the charging process.[4]
     It is incorrect to say that battery powered  vehicles  would
eliminate  emissions  of carbon dioxide and volatile organic com-
pounds, the emissions are simply shifted from the tailpipe to the
electric  power  generating plants. Substitution of electric cars
would indeed move the emissions from areas where they would  form
ozone  but  the  coal-burning  or  other type of power generating
plants would still be producing carbon dioxide and contribute  to
global  warming. The Environmental Protection Agency [5] and oth-
ers [6] have conducted studies which show that the  reduction  of
global  emissions attributed to the substitution of electric cars
for internal combustion vehicles are marginal at best and  depend
very  much  on  the  fuel mix of the electric power plants in the
area and that in some cases pollution associated with  the  elec-
tric cars was even higher than that of internal combustion engine
driven vehicles. Considerable criticism was directed at EPA  when
this  report  was  circulated on grounds that assumptions of dif-
ferent fuel mixes for power generation would result in an outcome
appearing  more  favorable  for  the electric cars and its report
never was published in a final form.
Moreover, California will not be much longer one of those  states
where electric power is generated by "tightly controlled" natural
gas plants. When the electric power utilities are deregulated  in
California  consumers will be able to buy power from the cheapest
suppliers and these may be the high polluting coal or  oil  fired
power  plants  in  other states.  Emissions from those plans when
attributed to the electric cars using their energy may well  show
that  the  electric cars are as polluting as the internal combus-
tion vehicles.
     Sperling notes that even if all (6 million) internal combus-
tion  engine vehicles disappeared from the streets of Los Angeles
the air quality would still not meet the air quality standards.
     A quantitative study by a Carnegie-Mellon  University  group
showed  that replacement of 500,000 conventional cars by electric
vehicles would result by a reduction of ozone by less than 1 per-
cent  or  about one part per billion in either Los Angeles or New
York City.[7]
     Pollution associated with the  modern  manufacture  of  bat-
teries would introduce about as much lead into the environment as
did the internal combustion engine driven vehicles using gasoline
containing  tetraethyl lead. Lead is a highly toxic metal and use
of lead-acid battery powered cars on a scale that  would  notice-
ably affect local air quality would have a seriously damaging ef-
fect on humans. For example, 6 million electric  cars  with  lead
acid  batteries of capacity 16.2 kWh like the above mentioned EV1
would require 1.9 millon metric tons of lead for their batteries.
For comparison we note that in 1991 the total world production of
lead was 3.1 million metric tons.
     In addition to New York State and Massachusetts  nine  other
states  [8] have followed California's impetuous lead in imposing
mandatory zero emission vehicle sales quotas. If  these  mandates
are  to  be  fulfilled  some 900,000 electric vehicles will be in
operation by the year 2003. If all these vehicles were like  Gen-
eral  Motors'  EV1  which  has  a battery capacity of 16.3 kWh at
specific energy of 50 watthour per kilogram of lead,  they  would
require  293,000  metric  tons of lead or 63 percent of the total
current annual production of lead in the United States. If all  6
million cars in the Los Angeles basin were replaced with EV1s 1.9
millon metric tons of lead would be required for their batteries.
For comparison we note that in 1991 the total world production of
lead was 3.1 million metric tons.
     The Carnegie Mellon University research team found that pro-
duction  and  manufacturing  of lead required for batteries would
introduce as much or more lead into  the  environment  as  leaded
gasoline  used  to  before it was eliminated.[9] The paper caused
considerable criticism from the proponents of electric  cars  but
its  findings  could not be substantially refuted.[10] The health
and environmental hazards associated with handling  such  quanti-
ties  of  this  highly toxic metal would more than offset all the
effort in eliminating it from gasoline.
     There is a theoretical limit  of  how  much  energy  can  be
stored  in  an  electrochemical storage battery per weight of the
reacting material which is determined by  the  electronic  confi-
guration  of the elements and which cannot be exceeded. Therefore
all the efforts directed at "improving" the storage battery capa-
city can result in only a few percent increase in specific energy
per weight which will not change the  situation.  For  lead  this
limit is 175 Wh.
     Application of higher specific energy lithium-ion  batteries
for  electric cars proposed by Nissan Motor Company appears to be
limited by the availability  of  lithium.[4]   Based  on  current
world production of lithium of 10 million kilograms, a maximum of
2.9 million electric vehicles could be produced annually  if  all
of  the  production were applied to lithium batteries.[3] In 1995
the world production of cars was 36 million.
     The prospect of cheap off-peak electric rates, often  quoted
as  an  argument  for  the electric cars, also is misleading. Six
million cars charging at 6.6 Kw at night would place a demand  of
39,600 megawatts on the electric utility system. The highest peak
demand in the Southern California Edison's system which occurs at
daytime  in summer is about 17,000 megawatts. Although the situa-
tion could be mitigated by spreading or staggering the three hour
charging  time  over  nine  hours,  thus  reducing the additional
demand to 13,200 megawatts, there would no longer be an off  peak
situation  and,  consequently,  no  off  peak  rate  at night. At
today's prices the electric energy costs 14 cents per kWh in Cal-
ifornia  and  does  not  appear  to  be competitive with gasoline
prices.
     Electric car promoters are apparently aware  that  lead-acid
batteries  are  a  dead  end, the efforts of the Advanced Battery
Consortium with an annual budget of $200  million  plus  notwith-
standing.  For  lead-acid batteries the ABC has set a modest goal
of a storage capacity of 50 to 80 Wh/kilogram which is a far  cry
from  the 13 kWh/kilogram that is stored in gasoline.[11] Even if
only 25% of the energy in gasoline can be converted  into  energy
for propulsion, gasoline still stores 65 times more useful energy
than is the expectation for the lead-acid batteries.  At  present
all  the  electric  car models produced by the three big American
manufacturers use lead-acid batteries.
     The figure of 2,100 kilojoules quoted as energy content of a
10 gallon tank of gasoline appears to be in error. Ten gallons of
gasoline contain 354 kWh or 1,274  megajoules,  about  600  times
more.
     The average power required for highway driving given  as  10
kilowatts  is  also understated, it definitely does not represent
the power requirement for moving an average passenger  car  which
is  25  kW [12].  General Motors' Electric car EV1, advertised as
an advanced study in aerodynamics, which weighs just under  3,000
lb, requires 20 kW for cruising at 60 mph, according to published
specifications.[13]
     If hydrogen is to be used for  powering  cars  the  required
quantity  would  have  to be equivalent to that presently used by
internal combustion engine powered cars, viz., the available  en-
ergy  content of 250 billion gallons of gasoline [14]. The energy
stored in 250 billion gallons of gasoline is 9 trillion kWh;  as-
suming  that only 30 percent of it can be converted into traction
energy and that fuel cells are 50 percent efficient, an amount of
hydrogen  packing 5.4 trillion kWh per year is required. At least
an equal amount of energy is needed to produce such an amount  of
hydrogen  by  electrolysis,  that  is  electric  power generation
plants with clock capacity of 1,230,000 megawatt, if photovoltaic
power is contemplated,  which is equivalent to the 123 power gen-
erating systems such as are needed to meet the average demand  of
a  utility  like  the  Southern  California Edison Company. It is
questionable if our society is prepared to build solar power gen-
erating  plants of such capacity and the attendant hydrogen pipe-
lines and infrastructure can be built.  The largest  photovoltaic
power plant in California has a capacity of 5 megawatt.
 The amount of hydrogen required would  be  57.5  trillion  cubic
feet, wt is 20,000 times that of the current United States annual
production which is 3 billion cubic feet at present.
     There is no indication that ultracapacitors will power  cars
for a long time to come.
     Flywheel powered buses have been around since at  least  the
end of World War II but they never gained wide acceptance.
     Fuel cells are not a suitable technology for  electric  cars
and  will  not be for a long time.  When a number of 200 kW phos-
phoric acid natural gas burning fuel cells were first offered  by
the Southern California Gas company, questions were raised wheth-
er their cost-effectiveness would support the approval  of  their
use.
     Reason seems to have overruled the California Air  Resources
Board  which had to back down and modify its mandate so as to re-
quire that the manufacturers need only have  the  facilities  for
production  of  electric  cars available should there be a demand
for them [14].  The  plan  now  appears  to  be  requiring  local
governments  such  as  cities, counties, public service districts
and utilities to acquire electric cars for their fleets with  the
taxpayers  "painlessly"  paying  for the exorbitant costs of this
unappealing technology.[15]
REFERENCES
[1] Statistical  Abstracts  of  the  United  States,  1995,  U.S.
Department of Commerce, Washington DC, 1966.]
[2] State of California Department of Motor  Vehicles,  Estimated
Fee-paid  Registration  by County: 1992 Annual Report, Department
of Motor Vehicles, Sacramento, California, 1993.
[3] F.G. Will, Impact of Lithium Abundance and Cost  on  Electric
Vehicle  Applications,  Electric  Power  Research  Institute, TR-
106556 8601, Palo Alto, 1996, p.2-3.
[4] Current, Electric Transportation News From Southern  Califor-
nia  Edison,  1,  1,  Southern  California Edison Company, Walnut
Grove, California, 1996.
[5] Preliminary Electric  Vehicle  Emissions  Assessment,  United
States  Environmental  Protection  Agency, Regulation Development
and Support Division, National Vehicle and  Fuels  Emissions  La-
boratory, Ann Arbor, 1993.
[6] H. Dowlatabadi, a.J. Krupnick, and A. Russell, Electric Vehi-
cle and the Environment: Consequences for Emissions and Air Qual-
ity in Los Angeles and U.S. Regions, Resources  for  the  Future,
Washington, D.C., 1990.
[7] L.B. Leave, A.G.Russell, C.T. Henderson and  F.C.  McMichael,
Battery Powered Vehicles: Ozone Reduction versus Lead Discharges,
Environmental Science and Technology, 30, September 1996, p.  402
A.
[8]  Delaware,  Distric  of  Columbia,   Maine,   Maryland,   New
Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
[9] L.B. Leave, C.T. Hendrickson and F.C. McMichael,  Environmen-
tal  Implications of Electric Cars, Science, 268, March 19, 1995,
pp 993--995.
[10] D. Allen, Science 269, 1955,  p.  741;  R.C.  Stempel,  S.R.
Ovshinsky,   Science  1955,  269,  pp.  741-742;  C.W.  Gellings,
S.C.Peck, Science 1955, 269, p. 742;  L.Gaines,  M.Wang,  Science
269,  1955,  p.,  742;  R.J.Hwang,  Science 269, 1955, p. 744; D.
Sperling, Science 1955, 269, p. 744.
[11] L.S. Marx, Standard Handbook for Mechanical  Engineers,  7th
Edition, McGraw-Hill, New York, 1967, p. 11-4.
[12] L.S. Marks, loc.cit., p 7-22.
[13] General Electric Company home page, http://www.gmev.com.
[14] U.S. Department of Energy, 19th Annual  Report  to  Congress
for  FY  1995,  DOE/EE-0108  states  that  in  194 transportation
petroleum consumption was 16.4 million barrels per day]
[15] P. Gordon and H.W. Richardson, The  Case  Against  Electric-
Vehicle  Mandates in California, Policy Study 189, Reason Founda-
tion, Los Angeles, 1995.
[16] See also: V. Bevc, Effect of the Electric  Car  on  the  En-
vironment and Energy Supply, The National Regulatory Research In-
stitute Quarterly Bulletin, 16, 1, March 1955, pp. 21--26.
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Harmonic Resonance
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew H. Fields)
Date: 11 Jan 1997 23:32:40 GMT
Very interesting, Francesco, but then why was the third considered
dissonant for a thousand years?
-- 
Matt Fields  URL:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
Return to Top
Subject: Re: Do people see colours the same?
From: ericf@central.co.nz (Eric Flesch)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:46:29 GMT
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:23:42 GMT, cmartin@hotdog.demon.co.uk
(Christian Martin) wrote:
>Is there any evidence that different people see different colours
>(sorry, UK!) the same?
The only gauge that I can think of is that for most people, Green does
not look like either Blue or Yellow, while Orange does indeed look a
little bit Red and a little bit Yellow.  However, for a small minority
it's the other way around.  Also, I believe all (non-color-blind)
people agree that of those two cases, one (either green or orange)
*does* look similar to its neighbor colors, and the other *does not*.
So perhaps that minority sees green as orange, etc.  I suppose the
next step would be to see if the minority sees Blue as an emotionally
hot color (as most of us see red)...
Eric
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Subject: Re: Color of light bent in gravitation lens?
From: Erik Max Francis
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:43:30 -0800
Sir Terrance of SAL wrote:
> Finally!  Thanks John.
> 
> I was wondering how long this argument could last before someone realized
> that the geodesic of a particle is independant of that particles mass.
> 
> Sometimes basic physics is forgotten. The speed of light is c, a
> constant,
> and therefore regardless of the energy of the light, the geodesic is the
> same.
Several people had already pointed this out, including myself.
There is a further complication, since generally a beam of photons are all
not perfectly in line (that is, not following the same geodesic).  If the
beam has any spatial width, then photons travelling on one side of the beam
will be following one geodesic, while those on the other will be following
another geodesic.
The result is that your non-zero-width beam may get _dispersed_, but there
won't be a spectral dispersion, because for any given photon, the same
geodesic is following regardless of the photon's energy.
-- 
                             Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com
                              Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/
                         San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W
                                 &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect
     "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"
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Subject: Re: Color of light bent in gravitation lens?
From: Erik Max Francis
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:44:21 -0800
Esa Sakkinen wrote:
> I claim that our Moon can't stay on
> the same orbit around Earth as
> a space shuttle :-)
There are differences because the center of the mass of the whole system
will be different, but other than that the same orbit will be followed.
-- 
                             Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com
                              Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/
                         San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W
                                 &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect
     "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"
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Subject: Re: Color of light bent in gravitation lens?
From: Erik Max Francis
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:45:48 -0800
Richard A. Schumacher wrote:
> Oh! Easy: no effect. The spectrum (frequency distribution) of
> light coming out of a gravity well is the same as it was going
> in. The direction of travel is changed, but that does nothing
> to the frequency content. It is not red-shifted, blue-shifted,
> does not gain or lose absorbtion or emission bands, and is not
> refracted the way a prism refracts light.
Am I presuming that, in the case of gravitational bending, you're talking
about the frequency being measured at infinity in both cases?  Since, if
you measure them at different distances from the mass, you're going to have
to take gravitational redshift into account.  Correct?
-- 
                             Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com
                              Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/
                         San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W
                                 &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect
     "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"
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Subject: Re: Mars Rock Crock!
From: =eat-me@designated-mealtimes.org= ( >>>--->Word Warrior<---<<< )
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:44:07 GMT
casanova@crosslink.net (Bob Casanova) wrote:
>  >>>--->Word Warrior<---<<< wrote:
>
>>You seem in your haste to indulge faulty logic to have forgotten
>>the subject, which is how organisms are normally adapted to live
>>in health under conditions to which they have evolved to enjoy. 
>An organism is "successful" if it can reproduce at a rate sufficient
>to guarantee a stable or increasing population. If the individuals
>comprising the population die horribly, even of inherited disease,
>*after* the normal breeding age, the organism is still successful.
>Strangely enough, most human cancer occurs *after* the normal human
>age of reproduction.
Most humans don't even get cancer.
>>"The heavy metal and organic constituents of air pollution include
>>many chemicals known to be carcinogenic ... According to industrial
>>reporting required by the EPA, 650,000 tons of hazardous air pollutants
>>(air toxics) were released in the United States in 1992.  The presence
>>of tace amounts of these chemicals in air may be responsible for a
>>significant portion of the cancer observed in humans."
>>Bernard Nebel, PhD Duke, Richard Wright, PhD Harvard,
>>"Environmental Science: The Way The World Works" 5th Edition
>>Prentice Hall 1996
>>That's just the contaminants in air.
>>Those in food and water add effects.
>Of course, the fact that environmental pollutants increase the risk of
>cancer in no way implies that they are the sole cause. Or do you have
>citable evidence, rather than opinion, to the contrary?
Do you claim there must be some other cause for cancer
than carcinogens?
You make unsubstantiated claims.
_____________________________________________________________________________
|Respectfully, Sheila          ~~~Word Warrior~~~         green@pipeline.com|
|Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:|
| This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up|
| on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.|
| *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Subject: Re: Diameter of the earth.
From: Richard Mentock
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:49:09 -0500
FolsomMan wrote:
> Diameter tolerances are not the same as roughness.  You seem not to
> understand the difference.  Diameter tolerance is not surface finish.  The
> flattened poles would come under the tolerances you cite, but mountains
> would not.
Perhaps you'd like to cite some?
-- 
D.
mentock@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~mentock/index.htm
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Subject: plays on science
From: trothman@cfa0.harvard.edu (Tony Rothman)
Date: 12 Jan 97 00:58:02 GMT
I am searching for some plays on science,
excluding the usual suspects: Brecht, Durenmatt,
Capek.  Any leads appreciated.
trothman@pppl.gov
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Subject: Re: Infinitude of Primes in P-adics
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:17:43 GMT
In article <5b8tan$7ao$1@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium) writes:
 >        We both accept the fact that 3-adics is a field and that no
 > primes exist in 3-adics.
But the 3-adics are *not* a field.  Please read what I write on occasion.
The 3-adics are *not* a field because 3 has no inverse in the 3-adics.
Moreover, 3 generates a prime ideal in the 3-adics and can be seen as a
prime in the 3-adics.  (In a field, by definition, *all* elements except
0 have a multiplicative inverse.  Show me the inverse of 3 in the 3-adics
if you want it to be a field.)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
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Subject: Re: Creation VS Evolution
From: Capella
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:17:14 -0600
erikc wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:21:58 -0600
> Capella 
> as message <32D6F946.7A7E@airmail.net>
> -- posted from: alt.atheism:
> >|erikc wrote:
> >|>
> >|> On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 06:17:20 -0500
> >|> Trish 
> >|> as message <32D38240.3DF4@gte.net>
> >|> -- posted from: alt.atheism:
> >|>
> >|> [snip]
> >|> >|
> >|> >|Do you imply that humans have the ability of an "afterlife" because we
> >|> >|have fully developed speech?  The differences I discuss are non culture
> >|> >|related and non physical.  Hell .. we can probably toss out self
> >|> >|awareness as well.  Chimps have self awareness.
> >|>
> >|> So do fundys.
> >|>
> >|> >|
> >|> >|Trish
> >|>
> >|> Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net
> >|>
> >|> Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include
> >|> diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
> >|>
> >|> Wanna see how sick some fundies are?
> >|> http://www.christiangallery.com/    (home page)
> >|> http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever)
> >|> /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */
> >|
> >|
> >|Don't misunderstand, we are not in any way comparing the mental capacity
> >|of fundies and chimps. Chimps don't believe in ridiculous non-existent
> >|gods... ;-)
> 
> I wasn't trying to imply that fundies up to the mental capacity of chimpanzees
> -- only that they had sufficient neural matter to possess self-awareness.
> 
> >|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >|Capella
> >|Dallas, Texas
> 
> Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net
> 
> Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include
> diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
> 
> Wanna see how sick some fundies are?
> http://www.christiangallery.com/    (home page)
> http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever)
> /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */
I understood, I just didn't want anyone to feel we were insulting the
poor chimps! ;-)    
-- 
---------------------------------
Capella
Dallas, Tx
Today's bible wisdom for christians. Lesson two, Joshua does as God commands him:
(The battles of Joshua for the possession of cities and genocide of inhabitants)
(All verses from book of Joshua NRSV)
(more slaughter as commanded by God)
(City of Libnah)(10:30) The LORD gave it also and its king into the hand of Israel;
and he struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left no
one remaining in it;
(City of Lachish)(10:32-33) ... and struck it with the edge of the sword,
and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah.
Then King Horam of Gezer came up to help Lachish;
and Joshua struck him and his people, leaving him no survivors.
(City of Eglon)(10:35)  and they took it that day, and struck it with the edge of
the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to
Lachish.
(City of Hebron)(10:37) and struck it with the edge of the sword, and its king and
its towns, and every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done
to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it.
(City of Debir)(10:39-40)  and he took it with its king and all its towns;
they struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in
it; he left no one remaining;
So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland
and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed
all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.
(still more of God's slaughter to come...)
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Subject: Re: 1 / 2^.5 or 2^.5 / 2?
From: Erik Max Francis
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:52:41 -0800
John D. Goulden wrote:
> Of course pow(2,1/2) won't 'work' in C, nor will any expression in which
> 1/2 is intended to produce the value .5. On the other hand pow(2,1.0/2.0)
> and pow(2.0,1.0/2.0) produce root 2 on all three of my C compilers.
And, indeed, strictly ANSI C conforming.
Even on the 1/2 ratio, all you need to do is get one of the values to be a
double so that the other is automatically promoted.  (This is why either 2
or 2.0 as the first argument are valid.)  So 
    pow(2, 1./2);
is perfectly valid as well.
-- 
                             Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com
                              Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/
                         San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W
                                 &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect
     "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"
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Subject: Re: 1 / 2^.5 or 2^.5 / 2?
From: Erik Max Francis
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:54:39 -0800
Simon Read wrote:
> C  I can't comment on.
C does not have an exponentiation operator.  The expression 2^(1/2) gives
you 2, because, although 1/2 is integer division an evaluates to 0, 2^0
does not mean "two raised to the power zero."  It in fact means "2 bitwise
exclusive disjunction (xor) 0," which is why you get the answer 2.
-- 
                             Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com
                              Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/
                         San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W
                                 &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect
     "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"
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Subject: Re: 1 / 2^.5 or 2^.5 / 2?
From: Erik Max Francis
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:56:31 -0800
Simon Read wrote:
> 
> Christopher R Volpe  wrote:
> >In C, the expression "2^(1/2)" yields the value "2". The reason why is
> >left as an exercise for the reader.
> 
> Fascinating. I can think of three reasons; which one is correct?
> 
> (1) the symbol  ^  doesn't mean power, but something else like bit
>     shift
Correct.  In fact, it means bitwise exclusive disjunction, or xor.
> (2) the (1/2) is evaluated as an integer, giving 1 or 0 depending on the
>     truncation/rounding rules: is it rounded up or truncated?
No.  "Integer division" is well defined; you always round down.
> (3) integers to the power of an integer are calculated by a loop, which
>     is eager to execute at least once, so you get 2 instead of 1, even
>     if the exponent is 0
An actual bug in the language this bad would have been found and corrected
by _now_.  :-)
-- 
                             Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com
                              Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/
                         San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W
                                 &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect
     "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"
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