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Richard MentockReturn to Topwrote: >FolsomMan wrote: >> >> kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer) wrote: >> >> >... >> > I think 7920 miles should be close enough for >> >your purpose, but I have heard that if the Earth was >> >the size of a billiard ball, it would be just as smoooth, >> >the mountains only 6 miles in height compared to the >> >diameter of 7920 miles. >> >> This is almost as good as the toilet vortex direction vs hemisphere >> nonsense. If you call the diameter of a billiard ball ~2 inches, then a >> feature about 1/1000 of its diameter would be .002 inches. I happen to be >> familiar with surface roughness standards and I would be very surprised if >> the finish on a billiard ball is any rougher than 16 microinches rms. 125 >> microinches is like a bastard file or worse. Would anyone like to verify >> that a billiard ball has 2000 microinch roughness features? >Yes. I called Brunswick a couple years ago, and got their tolerances. >They said their better balls were specced so that the average diameter >had to be 2.25 inches (+.008 or -.005), and then the deviation from >the average had to be +/- .002 inches. Thus, Earth would appear >to make it with a couple miles to spare, even dispensing with the >oceans. The ol' Earth would be as smooth as a billiard ball, but too >much out of round (the Earth is flattened at the poles by 3 times the >height of its topography.) Diameter tolerances are not the same as roughness. You seem not to understand the difference. Diameter tolerance is not surface finish. The flattened poles would come under the tolerances you cite, but mountains would not. >Everest may be 6 miles high but it sits on a large plateau. >It's not like the features of a rasp, where the rise angle is great. >Geologic cross-sections typically exaggerate the vertical by more than >an order of magnitude. That's great but it still doesn't make your point. Mark Folsom, P.E. Consulting Mechanical Engineer
Ken FischerReturn to Topwrote in article ... > Bryan W. Reed (breed@HARLIE.ee.cornell.edu) wrote: > : Gregory Fromer wrote: > : > I have been having some trouble understanding some math principals > : >and operations that are used in physics formulas.. Like for instance: > : > > : > 1/2MV^2 for kenetic energy > : > > : >What exactly is the purpose of squareing the velocity times the mass and > : >finding half of that? What is the purpose of squareing the velocity, and > : >takeing half of the system? > > I have been trying to figure this out, and knowing > that the definition of kinetic energy is "that amount of energy > required to bring one object to rest in another objects rest > frame" should be of some help. > > momentum = mv > > can all be put together to arrive at 1/2 mv^2 > If you integrate momentum against time (i.e., how long the momentum was applied), then you get 1/2 mv^2. We can also write this as p^2 / 2m. An interesting reason for mv^2 comes from the nature of geometry: ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 is the Pythagorean theorem written in terms of differentials. As "we all know", the length (squared) is an invariant of a metric space. Riemann used this approach to develop differential geometry, which can be used to handle both flat and curved spaces. If we define the metric of our space as ds^2 = 1/2 m (dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2), then (ds/dt)^2 = 1/2 m v^2. If we have many particles (let's agree that there are N of them), each with its own coordinates and masses, we can define a metric for a 3N dimensional configuration space as dS^2 = sum of all the ds^2. Now a single point in this 3N dimensional configuration space describes (fully) the interaction- free state of the N original particles. But dS^2 isn't quite Euclidean, because the mass scalings are different for different particles. If we were to add some kinematical constraints (like a floor, or some surface that limits the particle motion), then we could get a truly curved space metric. Shades of General Relativity! Anyway, this relates to your question, at least about the mv^2 part, by means of the metric of the space; where the metric is here given in terms of the differential line element. Invariants of the geometry often correspond to important physical notions. In this case, we can also see how the energy controls the motion by through its relation with the metric. Best Regards, Peter
Paul WhiteReturn to Topwrote in article <32d61304.1921606@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > "Peter Diehr" wrote: > > >Try "In the beginning ...". This is a time-tested formula for all > >such theories. > >It also lays your cards on the table. > > > "Once upon a time...." is catchier. > > Ah, but it is much harder to ascertain the initial conditions, unless you are very, very lucky. ;-) Best Regards, Peter
Robert Rodgers wrote: > Just curious, but what's wrong with the paired photon idea for FTL > communication? Suppose you could design a photon trap that would > store 1 mole of photons so they would be released serially, 10 billion > per second or so, and that across space you had their twins coming out > at the same rate and spit through a polarizer that either set them on > (horiz) or off (vert). What's wrong with it is the notion that a polarizer _sets_ the polarization of a photon. It doesn't. What it does is to _measure_ the photon's polarization state. The paired photon must then have the same state, but since it had a 50-50 chance of having either state anyway, this doesn't convey any information when its polarization state is measured. > (I guess two obvious questions are, how do you design a light trap > that would let you do this, and how do you pump a mole of photons into > it.) They're certainly good questions, but look to me like a problem in engineering more than anything. Sylvia. **** Sending me email? Note, my real email address is sylvia@zip.com.au, **** and not as specified in the header. **** I consistently approach the administrators of systems from which I **** receive junk mail.Return to Top
Could someone please help me with a momentum problem for a high school physics class? A 100 kg raft carries 2 swimmers of mass 50 and 70 kg. The 70 kg swimmer jumps off in the positive direction at 3 m/s. The 50 kg swimmer stays on the raft for another 3 sec. before jumping off in the negative direction at 7 m/s. Neglecting any friction, where is the raft, relative to the original starting point (0), 10 sec. after the first swimmer (70 kg) dove in? (50 kg swimmer) (70 kg swimmer) _______________________________________ (100 kg raft) (neg.)------------0---------------(pos.) Thanks for any help you could give me. Mike RanckReturn to Top
kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer) wrote: >FolsomMan (folsomman@aol.com) wrote: >: kfischer@iglou.com (Ken Fischer) wrote: >: > I think 7920 miles should be close enough for >: >your purpose, but I have heard that if the Earth was >: >the size of a billiard ball, it would be just as smoooth, >: >the mountains only 6 miles in height compared to the >: >diameter of 7920 miles. >: This is almost as good as the toilet vortex direction vs hemisphere >: nonsense. If you call the diameter of a billiard ball ~2 inches, then a >: feature about 1/1000 of its diameter would be .002 inches. I happen to be >: familiar with surface roughness standards and I would be very surprised if >: the finish on a billiard ball is any rougher than 16 microinches rms. 125 >: microinches is like a bastard file or worse. Would anyone like to verify >: that a billiard ball has 2000 microinch roughness features? >: Mark Folsom, P.E. > It would depend on the billiard ball, a new one >may be almost perfect, some old ones may easily have >.002 scratches, but I didn't mean that too literally, >just that it seems like a futile exercise to try to >draw the Earth to scale, I think the global topography >is exagerated quite a bit. Most maps and globes are greatly exaggerated in terms of altitude, but also skip over very narrow peaks and valleys. Some parts of the Earth are much rougher in proportion than is a billiard ball. Mark Folsom, P.E. Consulting Mechanical EngineerReturn to Top
Tim Harwood wrote: > > It was revelaed in the Sunday Times over Christamas, those with a PH.D. > in economics are 40 % worse at economic forecasting that those without. > ( This is absolutely true, don't flame me for this, read David Smiths > round-up of the economic forcasts for 1996 ). > > Confirmed what I've always thought, academics with lots of with initials > after their names can't see the wood for the trees. Lost in irrelevant > detail, they lose all track of reality. This post sure kicked up a lot of dust! :) I do not think that all the flying posts on this particular topic are touching on the actual facts of this issue. The real issue is that you simply *cannot* equate education with intelligence and/or ability. Education is usually a great help in developing certain kinds of ability, and virtually essential in developing other kinds of ability. But education does not, can not, create ability! Anyone who has worked in an environment where there is significant objective indication of how well a person actually makes use of their intelligence/abilities knows that there are well educated incompetents and less well educated extremely competent people. No doubt there is a correlation between education and ability, but not primarily for the reason one might think. I believe the greatest part of this correlation is because more intelligent/able people are more likely to seek and obtain a higher education, and much less so because of the actual benefits of the education, real as they are. In other words, a very talented and competent person will be so with or without an education, though better so with the education. An incompetent will be so with or without an education, and the education doesn't seem to do much good. -- Judson McClendon This is a faithful saying and worthy of all Sun Valley Systems acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the judsonmc@ix.netcom.com world to save sinners (1 Timothy 1:15)Return to Top
In article <5b96d5$1ihc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, ale2@psu.edu (ale2) writes: >In article <32D6FAC8.592@quadrant.net> >"Bruce C. Fielder"Return to Topwrites: > > >> On the plus side, it beats heavy lifting. >> > >But heavy lifting keeps the heart healthy. How many scientists do we >lose too early to health problems? How you define "too early". I'm sure that, given current scarcity of research positions, many of the newly minted PhDs would say (anonymously, of course) "not early enough" :-) Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:21:58 -0600 CapellaReturn to Topas message <32D6F946.7A7E@airmail.net> -- posted from: alt.atheism: >|erikc wrote: >|> >|> On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 06:17:20 -0500 >|> Trish >|> as message <32D38240.3DF4@gte.net> >|> -- posted from: alt.atheism: >|> >|> [snip] >|> >| >|> >|Do you imply that humans have the ability of an "afterlife" because we >|> >|have fully developed speech? The differences I discuss are non culture >|> >|related and non physical. Hell .. we can probably toss out self >|> >|awareness as well. Chimps have self awareness. >|> >|> So do fundys. >|> >|> >| >|> >|Trish >|> >|> Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net >|> >|> Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include >|> diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain. >|> >|> Wanna see how sick some fundies are? >|> http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page) >|> http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever) >|> /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */ >| >| >|Don't misunderstand, we are not in any way comparing the mental capacity >|of fundies and chimps. Chimps don't believe in ridiculous non-existent >|gods... ;-) I wasn't trying to imply that fundies up to the mental capacity of chimpanzees -- only that they had sufficient neural matter to possess self-awareness. >|----------------------------------------------------------------------- >|Capella >|Dallas, Texas Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain. Wanna see how sick some fundies are? http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page) http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever) /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */
On 11 Jan 97 15:18:57 GMT, in sci.skeptic, Simon ReadReturn to Topwrote: >casanova@crosslink.net (Bob Casanova) wrote: >> >>Isn't this the reason for the gaps in Saturn's ring structure? > >Interesting. Do you have any data on the periods of any objects which >would be in the ring gaps, and the periods of Saturn's satellites? Nope. I just thought I remembered reading (how's *that* for a definite cite?) that the ring gaps were at the correct distances to have been caused by resonance effects (presumably among the ring bodies/particles?) and wanted to know if anyone knowledgeable could confirm it. > >This sort of equates rings with asteroids. In other words, >the Sun's got rings. Purely semantic I know, but very pretty. I never thought of it that way, but it *does* sound almost poetic. > >Simooooooooooon > (Note followups, if any) Bob C. "No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session." - Mark Twain
Im Artikel <5b5efs$t7j@btmpjg.god.bel.alcatel.be>, pver@nemdev26 (Peter Verthez) schreibt: >I think you meant something else instead of negation... Anyway the negation >of "all ravens are black" is "there is a raven that is not black". Sorry, no. The correct 'logic' negation is: NOT(all ravens are black). That can mean anything from "at least one raven is not black" over "some ravens are not black" and "no ravens are black = all ravens are not black" to "there's no ravens at all (thus they are not black)". Puhh. Language is very ambivalent, when it comes to negations, and usually we simply choose "the oppposite" (black / white, hot / cold etc.), but unfortunately this is misleading quite often (yup Mati, Ed and BAH, we've been through that not so long ago, haven't we?) Cheerio The most dangerous untruths are truths slightly deformed. Lichtenberg, Sudelbuecher __________________________________ Lorenz Borsche Per the FCA: this eMail adress is not to be added to any commercial mailing list. Uncalled for eMail maybe treated as public.Return to Top
In article <32D81D76.6DF8@wehi.edu.au>, John WilkinsReturn to Topwrote: > czar@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: > > > > Allen R. Sampson (ars@mcs.com) wrote: > > > > : Only a philosopher could wax so poetically on this. In reality, I think > > : 99.9% of philosophy in the USA is done in bars, where no thinking occurs. > > > > I'd personally go out on a limb and say that that was the case for the > > majority of philosophy throughout history. Who was it that said > > (something like) "In wine, there is truth."? > > At such philosophical conferences as I have attended in Australia, the > usual procedure is for the papers to get read and then everybody goes > off and gets plastered, and either sits together and boozily discusses > modal logic or stands around the nearest piano and sings very loudly > off-key. *This* is the One True Philosophical Method [tm], bugger > Descartes. Wow, you mean that old Monty Python skit wasn't a spoof, it was really true? And are all Australian philosophers named Bruce? (well, I guess you aren't...but maybe after enough beers everyone calls you Bruce anyway?) -- Paul Myers Department of Biology myers@netaxs.com Temple University http://fishnet.bio.temple.edu/ Philadelphia, PA 19122
In article <32d8050f.7041866@pubnews.demon.co.uk>, ericf@central.co.nz (Eric Flesch) writes: >On 7 Jan 1997 15:45:12 GMT, kunk@perseus.phys.unm.edu () wrote: >>Bayes, of course, wrote a perfectly sensible theorem addressing the >>inclusion of prior results in calculation of probabilities. It allows >>us to make sensible statements about the probability of a concluded >>event, which we all do instinctively anyway. The only use of Bayes >>theorem of which I am aware in my field is in an analysis of the >>neutrinos detected from SN87A. > >The heart of Bayesian analysis is that the experimenters' expectations >actually influence the final data collected, as the experimenters >select among the methods and results, consciously or unconsciously. No, not this way. The experimenters' expectations do influence the results through the assignment of initial probability values. From this point on all new data is to be used to modify the probabilities so that at the limit of infinitely long chain of experiments the experimental values converge to the "true ones" (whatever that means) regardless of the initial assignment. The issue of "experimenters selecting among the methods and results, consciously or unconsciously", while being real and problematic, has nothing to do with Bayesian analysis. Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"Return to Top
Simon ReadReturn to Topwrote: >>One blindingly obvious reason that it is wrong is that the natural >>radioactivity in our bodies is always going to damage a few cells and the >>repair mechanisms aren't perfect. >Well, you may work for CERN and hence glow in the dark, but that isn't >everyone's experience. >Just which radionucleotides are present in your body? I don't know what radionucleotides are in his body, but among the radio*nuclides* are potassium-40 and carbon-14, both of which have substantial natural sources. I've thought that isotopically purified light potassium salts would be a great product for the radiophobic. Paul
Jason Kodish (jkodish@thwap.nl2k.edmonton.ab.ca) wrote: : In article <32d4588a.3369270@news> abz@gnn.com writes: : > : >Sheesh, I'm only in high school...never heard of general relativity until : >recently...on the internet...not from the school... : Well, the Internet is great that way. If you can find John Baez, he'll : direct you towards a nice GR tutorial. Get a jump on the others and learn : it now :-) Good idea, but at the same time, learn Newtonian Gravitation well! ( I can't believe I said that.) :-) : I guess light is in a sense accellerated, by the equivilance principle.... : Jason Kodish : Thirring Institute for Applied Gravitational Research : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/1659 Hardly, I don't know of an falling objects accelerated by gravity in terms of the Principle of Equivalence (or even the Equivalence Principle, for that matter). :-) Kenneth Edmund Fischer - Inventor of Stealth Shapes - U.S. Pat. 5,488,372 Divergent Matter GUT of Gravitation http://www.iglou.com/members/kfischerReturn to Top
mumble, mumble... where do I keep my killfile... < squelch > :-)Return to Top
Allen R. Sampson (ars@mcs.com) wrote: : Only a philosopher could wax so poetically on this. In reality, I think : 99.9% of philosophy in the USA is done in bars, where no thinking occurs. I'd personally go out on a limb and say that that was the case for the majority of philosophy throughout history. Who was it that said (something like) "In wine, there is truth."? : This is not meant as a comment on philosophy, rather on the state of the : American culture. Good oxymoron! ;) -- ****************************** Me fail English? That's unpossible! - Ralph Wiggum ******************************Return to Top
Anthony PottsReturn to Topwrote: > Hell, even the natural replacement of cells is enough to cause cancer. Only if there are genetic defects or carcinogenic agents corrupting the DNA. >One blindingly obvious reason that it is wrong is that the natural >radioactivity in our bodies is always going to damage a few cells and the >repair mechanisms aren't perfect. Well, you may work for CERN and hence glow in the dark, but that isn't everyone's experience. Just which radionucleotides are present in your body?
Im Artikel <852992627.9125.0@hotdog.demon.co.uk>, cmartin@hotdog.demon.co.uk (Christian Martin) schreibt: >Is there any evidence that different people see different >colours (sorry, UK!) the same? For instance, is my 'red' >someone else's 'green'? I have thought about this for a >long time, but even if you consider frequencies used >(say 4.3x10^14Hz), everybody could call this 'red' while >some may see it as my green (but call it red) and some >may see it as my 'purple' (but call it red). Ok: Here's the hypothesis: All people see all same colours the same (ahem, NOT: different colours the same ;-). Let's do the good ole Popperian approach and try to disprove it: Special case: One "people" sees all same colours the same. Sounds stupid? Well, I have two eyes :-) .... Actually certain kinds of green do appear different for me when viewed with either the right eye or the left one. A good example is fir trees in the afternoon sunlight. The right eye sees them more blueish-green, whereas the left eye tends to produce rather a yellowish-green (sounds like Agfa vs. Kodak). Thus: If even I myself do not see the same colour as the same, how should two different people see it the same (the second person would have to have the same difference in the green range as me...). BTW: a related question would be: do two people hear the same tone the same??? Well, I could tell you, that I happen to have two ears........ Cheerio The most dangerous untruths are truths slightly deformed. Lichtenberg, Sudelbuecher __________________________________ Lorenz Borsche Per the FCA: this eMail adress is not to be added to any commercial mailing list. Uncalled for eMail maybe treated as public.Return to Top
Michael Weiss (columbus@pleides.osf.org) wrote: : Anyway, whatever the truth about the U.S., I'd be interested in : hearing impressions from other countries. If you, kind reader, were : educated outside the U.S. and still reside there, what is your feeling : about the average level of math and science instruction in your : country? Has it declined over the years? How would you assess it : today? I live in Sweden, and here the level has certainly declined over the last few decades. When my father was in high school, they were doing things like introductory fourier analysis and calculus of several variables, and you won't see anything like that now. Things were probably more elitist back then - you had a few people who excelled and many who understood little - but that's a problem of dividing the students into appropriate groups, not of the level of education itself. For some reason (probably ideological, since most of the governments we've had here since WW II have been socialist) students are not put in groups corresponding to their interests and/or abilities until 7th grade, and then only in math and English. This reminds me of the old joke of the guy who put one foot in iced water and the other in scorching hot water and said he has comfortable on the average. I think the approach of keeping everyone in the same group has a lot of disadvantages - you either cater to the lowest common denominator and hamper the faster students or speed things up and leave the slower ones behind. When I started high school, seven years ago, you got to choose your program of study according to what you were most interested in: science/engineering, social sciences, languages, or more vocational things such as carpentry or hairdressing and you followed a pre- designed program, so you didn't get to choose the classes yourself. The math and science education I got in high school was pretty good - nothing like the one people got twenty years ago, but still okay. On the math side, the things we studied are similar to what is studied in the US, but I think there is a little more emphasis on understanding, doing simple proofs and things like that, instead of the more mechanical plug-in-the-numbers approach that seems to be prevalent in the US. A few years ago, high school here was revamped into a system very similar to the American one, where you got to choose all the classes yourself, as long as you meet the requirements for graduation. One of the consequences of this is that the introductory math classes contain both carpentry students and those who are going to study math and science. There's been a lot of complaints about this system already, but the politicians are probably too pigheaded to change it, so I fear things will go the same way here as they have done in the US, unless something is done. On the university side, things aren't looking very good either. The funding for basic research has been cut dramatically, so much that it was even critized by this year's Nobel prize winners, and they aren't exactly known for making political comments. Also, "political correctness" seems to be the catchphrase of the day at the Department of Education - there's been a number of science professorships that by the government's decision *only women may apply for*. According to the diehard feminist who was hired by the DoE to investigate gender inequality among university faculty, this is a good way to bring more women into the sciences. Well, I'd better quit... this is getting too long, and now that I'm worked up about this I might say something I'll regret; the NNTP servers have ears :-) .Return to Top
Louis SavainReturn to Topwrites > Concepts like geodesics and inertial paths in spacetime >>>are simply dumb. right! > And no amount of rationalization or >>>obfuscation is going to change that. right! > Too bad some of you are having >>>trouble grasping this. And also, too bad if some of you take offense. right! > Time is always derived by applying the equation t = d/v. Wrong! Surely the concept 'time' must preceed the concept of 'velocity'. What is your definition for 'v' in the above equation, Louis ? >> What is new in this century is the unification of space and time. > Which is the biggest nonsense to ever come out of science. right! -- Keith Stein
What happens when AN ELECTRON MEETS A POSITRON IN A VACUUM ? +e -> ? <- -e We can't balance energy and momentum after they collide. Right? THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE WHO BELEIVES IN 'A VACUUM', RIGHT :-? -- Keith SteinReturn to Top
aranders@kosepc01.delcoelect.com (Alan Anderson) wrote: >In <5b11af$gv5@dropit.pgh.net>, >=green@pipeline.com= (Word Warrior) writes: >>The immune system is quite capable of fending off damage >>from external sources of damage when it is properly >>fueled and managed. >Even assuming this to be true (which it almost certainly isn't -- that's >why carcinogens and ionizing radiation can cause cancer), "Can" is not "necessarily does". >you can't just >neglect *internal* sources of damage. Cellular DNA replication isn't an >error-free process, for one thing. Do you claim you know the origins/causes of those errors? _____________________________________________________________________________ |Respectfully, Sheila ~~~Word Warrior~~~ green@pipeline.com| |Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:| | This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up| | on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.| | *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Return to Top
HollyReturn to Topwrote: >Hi! Can anyone help me with a problem - how can I measure the strength >of an electromagnet if I change a)the current and b)number of turns of >solenoid? Someone suggested testing it with a Newton metre, but that's >not very accurate. As I'm in UK Yr11 at school, I would appreciate help >on this which doesn't sound like it's for Uni students! Thanks. Holly. >Holly Skelton - Shawn@notlex.demon.co.uk > Put in a standard ferromagentic core and see how much weight (e.g., how many paper clips or iron filings) you can lift. As a unit of magnetic field strength sums to "ampere-turns," you should come to certain conclusions. Coil geometry is also important. The densest field is generated by a coil whose diameter equals its length (e.g., a cylinder with the maximum volume/surface area). -- Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @) http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals) "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
cmartin@hotdog.demon.co.uk (Christian Martin) wrote: >Apoligies if this is off-topic. > >My girlfriend and I both do 'A'-level physics in the UK and we have a >bet on th following: > >When white light (ie not monochromatic) is shone through a single >slit, do you get: > >a) an inteference pattern >b) any colour separation (ie do you see different colours) > >My answer would be no to both, but I'm not sure... > >I would be very grateful for any answers... I hope you are playing to lose, perhaps after quaffing a Pangalactic Gargle Blaster. Look a the equation for single slit interference. See the wavelength dependence? Each frequency of light will display its own single slit pattern. As the white light source is not coherent, they will all nicely ignore one another on the average. You will thus get a continuous superposition of any number of single slit patterns with chromatic aberration - rainblow fringes How do you think a diffraction grating disperses a spectrum? Suppose we knocked out a dimension and used a pinhole. Pinhole cameras image in color - with nasty chromatic aberration. If you image the sun with a >long< pinhole camera, you need to use a narrow band color filter to get a clean image. Try it out with a flashlight, a piece of aluminum foil with a razor slit, and a white piece of paper spaced behind as a screen. -- Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @) http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals) "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!Return to Top
It is interesting that there are values operating about and within us we do not have a clue as to how they operate, or that they operate at all. One of the interesting things to have been considered is that there is a particular time value to all the planets of our solar system, and even our moon (I didn't work it out for the planet Pluto) one would not expect. The force of earth's gravitational field is actually a field of time, c2=E/m, also able to be valued as 15.4 days real physical time or 0.00444 kg. mass. Because this force has not been easily recognized, one of the interesting aspects of our solar system has been totally neglected, and due to this neglect an important feature of our planet and sun have been wrongly reasoned. The following are going to be core point values of different solar bodies in real physical time as they compare to an object upon their individual surfaces. In almost all the instances it shall become evident that were a mass to be held in ones hand near the core point and then released, the newly released mass would accelerated to the speed of light within one second, which means a mass in that position could not exist apart from accelerating into energy in form of electromagnetic radiation. First, and perhaps most interesting for your comtemplation, is the fact that mass cannot exist within a 400 mile distance to the core point of our sun. At that point all mass converts into electromagnetic radiation. There is a 800 mile hollow within our sun where mass cannot exist. Furthermore, this means that the core of stars are not converting hydrogen into helium, rather they are directly converting all mass as it reaches a particular location directly into electromagnetic energy. The physical time difference between the core point of the sun and an object on its surface is 13,903.87 YEARS. Mercury has a physical time difference of 20.30 hours. Venus has a physical time difference of 9.28 days. Earth moon has a physical time difference of 4.54 hours. Mars has a physical time difference of 1.64 days. Jupiter has a physical time difference of 13.27 years. Saturn has a physical time difference of 5.95 years. Uranus has a physical time difference of 221.86 days. Neptune has a physical time difference of 257.60 days. It is interesting that our planet, when a person reaches the 0.717 mile distance from the core point, has a gravitational field that will accelerate a mass in the position to the speed of light. So, then, our planet itself has a spherical hollow within of almost one and one-half miles where mass cannot exist without converting into electromagnetic energy. Though mathmatically this is true, we are taught that it is composed of iron and nickel. What do you think. mj5ertle2ix.netcom.comReturn to Top
COMMENT ON DAN SPERLING'S ARTICLE PROMOTING ELECTRIC CARS IN SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, NOVEMBER 1996, P.54: IS THERE A CASE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES? Vlado Bevc Synergy Research Institute P.O. Box 561, San Ramon, CA 94583 In trying to make a case for electric vehicles it would be desirable to clearly state the objectives of what impact is ex- pected on the present environment. There are 194 million motor vehicles in the United States 146 million of which are automo- biles. These motor vehicles travel a total of 2,300 billion miles per year consuming 137 billion gallons.[1] About 6 million internal combustion engine powered vehicles are registered in the Los Angeles county [2] and probably as many in New York. World- wide 36 million automobiles are produced annually.[3] The objective of the zero emission program could be replace- ment of all internal combustion engine driven vehicles by zero emission vehicles, or replacement of internal combustion vehicles only in those urban areas where they are highly concentrated, or perhaps the objective could only be compliance with the mandates handed down by the air resources boards in the various states in the hope that mandatory sales of electric vehicles may somehow bring forth new technological developments. If we are talking about no more than 5,000 electric cars, as the author seems to indicate, their effect on the environment and the electric power generation system would be minimal but if we are considering re- placement on a scale that would approach the present number of conventional cars we have to consider the effect on the air qual- ity, discharges of lead and other heavy metals and the demand of the electric power generating systems. While the conversion of energy from storage cells in an electric automobile may be more efficient than conversion of gasoline to mechanical work the energy stored in the batteries comes from the electric generating systems the efficiency of which is only a few percent higher than that of the individual internal combustion engine. For the electric car the conversion of energy from the fuel to the "drive" simply starts at the elec- tric power plant rather than in the engine. The implication that the electric car has a 90 percent energy conversion efficiency is therefore misleading. The question is not how efficient is the motor but rather how efficient is the entire process from the electric power generation plant to the propulsion mechanism. Sperling allows that the overall advantage over the internal combustion engine driven vehicle amounts to a mere 5 percent. This advantage may well be offset by other disadvantages such as transmission and charging losses for which we do not have a good accounting. In estimates of this kind 5 percent figure implies a marginal advantage which could be readily offset by aging of the storage battery, line and charging losses. From Southern Califor- nia Edison Company's promotional literature, for instance, it ap- pears that 18 percent of energy used in charging up General Mo- tors' EV1 vehicle is lost in the charging process.[4] It is incorrect to say that battery powered vehicles would eliminate emissions of carbon dioxide and volatile organic com- pounds, the emissions are simply shifted from the tailpipe to the electric power generating plants. Substitution of electric cars would indeed move the emissions from areas where they would form ozone but the coal-burning or other type of power generating plants would still be producing carbon dioxide and contribute to global warming. The Environmental Protection Agency [5] and oth- ers [6] have conducted studies which show that the reduction of global emissions attributed to the substitution of electric cars for internal combustion vehicles are marginal at best and depend very much on the fuel mix of the electric power plants in the area and that in some cases pollution associated with the elec- tric cars was even higher than that of internal combustion engine driven vehicles. Considerable criticism was directed at EPA when this report was circulated on grounds that assumptions of dif- ferent fuel mixes for power generation would result in an outcome appearing more favorable for the electric cars and its report never was published in a final form. Moreover, California will not be much longer one of those states where electric power is generated by "tightly controlled" natural gas plants. When the electric power utilities are deregulated in California consumers will be able to buy power from the cheapest suppliers and these may be the high polluting coal or oil fired power plants in other states. Emissions from those plans when attributed to the electric cars using their energy may well show that the electric cars are as polluting as the internal combus- tion vehicles. Sperling notes that even if all (6 million) internal combus- tion engine vehicles disappeared from the streets of Los Angeles the air quality would still not meet the air quality standards. A quantitative study by a Carnegie-Mellon University group showed that replacement of 500,000 conventional cars by electric vehicles would result by a reduction of ozone by less than 1 per- cent or about one part per billion in either Los Angeles or New York City.[7] Pollution associated with the modern manufacture of bat- teries would introduce about as much lead into the environment as did the internal combustion engine driven vehicles using gasoline containing tetraethyl lead. Lead is a highly toxic metal and use of lead-acid battery powered cars on a scale that would notice- ably affect local air quality would have a seriously damaging ef- fect on humans. For example, 6 million electric cars with lead acid batteries of capacity 16.2 kWh like the above mentioned EV1 would require 1.9 millon metric tons of lead for their batteries. For comparison we note that in 1991 the total world production of lead was 3.1 million metric tons. In addition to New York State and Massachusetts nine other states [8] have followed California's impetuous lead in imposing mandatory zero emission vehicle sales quotas. If these mandates are to be fulfilled some 900,000 electric vehicles will be in operation by the year 2003. If all these vehicles were like Gen- eral Motors' EV1 which has a battery capacity of 16.3 kWh at specific energy of 50 watthour per kilogram of lead, they would require 293,000 metric tons of lead or 63 percent of the total current annual production of lead in the United States. If all 6 million cars in the Los Angeles basin were replaced with EV1s 1.9 millon metric tons of lead would be required for their batteries. For comparison we note that in 1991 the total world production of lead was 3.1 million metric tons. The Carnegie Mellon University research team found that pro- duction and manufacturing of lead required for batteries would introduce as much or more lead into the environment as leaded gasoline used to before it was eliminated.[9] The paper caused considerable criticism from the proponents of electric cars but its findings could not be substantially refuted.[10] The health and environmental hazards associated with handling such quanti- ties of this highly toxic metal would more than offset all the effort in eliminating it from gasoline. There is a theoretical limit of how much energy can be stored in an electrochemical storage battery per weight of the reacting material which is determined by the electronic confi- guration of the elements and which cannot be exceeded. Therefore all the efforts directed at "improving" the storage battery capa- city can result in only a few percent increase in specific energy per weight which will not change the situation. For lead this limit is 175 Wh. Application of higher specific energy lithium-ion batteries for electric cars proposed by Nissan Motor Company appears to be limited by the availability of lithium.[4] Based on current world production of lithium of 10 million kilograms, a maximum of 2.9 million electric vehicles could be produced annually if all of the production were applied to lithium batteries.[3] In 1995 the world production of cars was 36 million. The prospect of cheap off-peak electric rates, often quoted as an argument for the electric cars, also is misleading. Six million cars charging at 6.6 Kw at night would place a demand of 39,600 megawatts on the electric utility system. The highest peak demand in the Southern California Edison's system which occurs at daytime in summer is about 17,000 megawatts. Although the situa- tion could be mitigated by spreading or staggering the three hour charging time over nine hours, thus reducing the additional demand to 13,200 megawatts, there would no longer be an off peak situation and, consequently, no off peak rate at night. At today's prices the electric energy costs 14 cents per kWh in Cal- ifornia and does not appear to be competitive with gasoline prices. Electric car promoters are apparently aware that lead-acid batteries are a dead end, the efforts of the Advanced Battery Consortium with an annual budget of $200 million plus notwith- standing. For lead-acid batteries the ABC has set a modest goal of a storage capacity of 50 to 80 Wh/kilogram which is a far cry from the 13 kWh/kilogram that is stored in gasoline.[11] Even if only 25% of the energy in gasoline can be converted into energy for propulsion, gasoline still stores 65 times more useful energy than is the expectation for the lead-acid batteries. At present all the electric car models produced by the three big American manufacturers use lead-acid batteries. The figure of 2,100 kilojoules quoted as energy content of a 10 gallon tank of gasoline appears to be in error. Ten gallons of gasoline contain 354 kWh or 1,274 megajoules, about 600 times more. The average power required for highway driving given as 10 kilowatts is also understated, it definitely does not represent the power requirement for moving an average passenger car which is 25 kW [12]. General Motors' Electric car EV1, advertised as an advanced study in aerodynamics, which weighs just under 3,000 lb, requires 20 kW for cruising at 60 mph, according to published specifications.[13] If hydrogen is to be used for powering cars the required quantity would have to be equivalent to that presently used by internal combustion engine powered cars, viz., the available en- ergy content of 250 billion gallons of gasoline [14]. The energy stored in 250 billion gallons of gasoline is 9 trillion kWh; as- suming that only 30 percent of it can be converted into traction energy and that fuel cells are 50 percent efficient, an amount of hydrogen packing 5.4 trillion kWh per year is required. At least an equal amount of energy is needed to produce such an amount of hydrogen by electrolysis, that is electric power generation plants with clock capacity of 1,230,000 megawatt, if photovoltaic power is contemplated, which is equivalent to the 123 power gen- erating systems such as are needed to meet the average demand of a utility like the Southern California Edison Company. It is questionable if our society is prepared to build solar power gen- erating plants of such capacity and the attendant hydrogen pipe- lines and infrastructure can be built. The largest photovoltaic power plant in California has a capacity of 5 megawatt. The amount of hydrogen required would be 57.5 trillion cubic feet, wt is 20,000 times that of the current United States annual production which is 3 billion cubic feet at present. There is no indication that ultracapacitors will power cars for a long time to come. Flywheel powered buses have been around since at least the end of World War II but they never gained wide acceptance. Fuel cells are not a suitable technology for electric cars and will not be for a long time. When a number of 200 kW phos- phoric acid natural gas burning fuel cells were first offered by the Southern California Gas company, questions were raised wheth- er their cost-effectiveness would support the approval of their use. Reason seems to have overruled the California Air Resources Board which had to back down and modify its mandate so as to re- quire that the manufacturers need only have the facilities for production of electric cars available should there be a demand for them [14]. The plan now appears to be requiring local governments such as cities, counties, public service districts and utilities to acquire electric cars for their fleets with the taxpayers "painlessly" paying for the exorbitant costs of this unappealing technology.[15] REFERENCES [1] Statistical Abstracts of the United States, 1995, U.S. Department of Commerce, Washington DC, 1966.] [2] State of California Department of Motor Vehicles, Estimated Fee-paid Registration by County: 1992 Annual Report, Department of Motor Vehicles, Sacramento, California, 1993. [3] F.G. Will, Impact of Lithium Abundance and Cost on Electric Vehicle Applications, Electric Power Research Institute, TR- 106556 8601, Palo Alto, 1996, p.2-3. [4] Current, Electric Transportation News From Southern Califor- nia Edison, 1, 1, Southern California Edison Company, Walnut Grove, California, 1996. [5] Preliminary Electric Vehicle Emissions Assessment, United States Environmental Protection Agency, Regulation Development and Support Division, National Vehicle and Fuels Emissions La- boratory, Ann Arbor, 1993. [6] H. Dowlatabadi, a.J. Krupnick, and A. Russell, Electric Vehi- cle and the Environment: Consequences for Emissions and Air Qual- ity in Los Angeles and U.S. Regions, Resources for the Future, Washington, D.C., 1990. [7] L.B. Leave, A.G.Russell, C.T. Henderson and F.C. McMichael, Battery Powered Vehicles: Ozone Reduction versus Lead Discharges, Environmental Science and Technology, 30, September 1996, p. 402 A. [8] Delaware, Distric of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont. [9] L.B. Leave, C.T. Hendrickson and F.C. McMichael, Environmen- tal Implications of Electric Cars, Science, 268, March 19, 1995, pp 993--995. [10] D. Allen, Science 269, 1955, p. 741; R.C. Stempel, S.R. Ovshinsky, Science 1955, 269, pp. 741-742; C.W. Gellings, S.C.Peck, Science 1955, 269, p. 742; L.Gaines, M.Wang, Science 269, 1955, p., 742; R.J.Hwang, Science 269, 1955, p. 744; D. Sperling, Science 1955, 269, p. 744. [11] L.S. Marx, Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, 7th Edition, McGraw-Hill, New York, 1967, p. 11-4. [12] L.S. Marks, loc.cit., p 7-22. [13] General Electric Company home page, http://www.gmev.com. [14] U.S. Department of Energy, 19th Annual Report to Congress for FY 1995, DOE/EE-0108 states that in 194 transportation petroleum consumption was 16.4 million barrels per day] [15] P. Gordon and H.W. Richardson, The Case Against Electric- Vehicle Mandates in California, Policy Study 189, Reason Founda- tion, Los Angeles, 1995. [16] See also: V. Bevc, Effect of the Electric Car on the En- vironment and Energy Supply, The National Regulatory Research In- stitute Quarterly Bulletin, 16, 1, March 1955, pp. 21--26.Return to Top
Very interesting, Francesco, but then why was the third considered dissonant for a thousand years? -- Matt Fields URL:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fieldsReturn to Top
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:23:42 GMT, cmartin@hotdog.demon.co.uk (Christian Martin) wrote: >Is there any evidence that different people see different colours >(sorry, UK!) the same? The only gauge that I can think of is that for most people, Green does not look like either Blue or Yellow, while Orange does indeed look a little bit Red and a little bit Yellow. However, for a small minority it's the other way around. Also, I believe all (non-color-blind) people agree that of those two cases, one (either green or orange) *does* look similar to its neighbor colors, and the other *does not*. So perhaps that minority sees green as orange, etc. I suppose the next step would be to see if the minority sees Blue as an emotionally hot color (as most of us see red)... EricReturn to Top
Sir Terrance of SAL wrote: > Finally! Thanks John. > > I was wondering how long this argument could last before someone realized > that the geodesic of a particle is independant of that particles mass. > > Sometimes basic physics is forgotten. The speed of light is c, a > constant, > and therefore regardless of the energy of the light, the geodesic is the > same. Several people had already pointed this out, including myself. There is a further complication, since generally a beam of photons are all not perfectly in line (that is, not following the same geodesic). If the beam has any spatial width, then photons travelling on one side of the beam will be following one geodesic, while those on the other will be following another geodesic. The result is that your non-zero-width beam may get _dispersed_, but there won't be a spectral dispersion, because for any given photon, the same geodesic is following regardless of the photon's energy. -- Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"Return to Top
Esa Sakkinen wrote: > I claim that our Moon can't stay on > the same orbit around Earth as > a space shuttle :-) There are differences because the center of the mass of the whole system will be different, but other than that the same orbit will be followed. -- Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"Return to Top
Richard A. Schumacher wrote: > Oh! Easy: no effect. The spectrum (frequency distribution) of > light coming out of a gravity well is the same as it was going > in. The direction of travel is changed, but that does nothing > to the frequency content. It is not red-shifted, blue-shifted, > does not gain or lose absorbtion or emission bands, and is not > refracted the way a prism refracts light. Am I presuming that, in the case of gravitational bending, you're talking about the frequency being measured at infinity in both cases? Since, if you measure them at different distances from the mass, you're going to have to take gravitational redshift into account. Correct? -- Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"Return to Top
casanova@crosslink.net (Bob Casanova) wrote: > >>>--->Word Warrior<---<<< wrote: >Return to Top>>You seem in your haste to indulge faulty logic to have forgotten >>the subject, which is how organisms are normally adapted to live >>in health under conditions to which they have evolved to enjoy. >An organism is "successful" if it can reproduce at a rate sufficient >to guarantee a stable or increasing population. If the individuals >comprising the population die horribly, even of inherited disease, >*after* the normal breeding age, the organism is still successful. >Strangely enough, most human cancer occurs *after* the normal human >age of reproduction. Most humans don't even get cancer. >>"The heavy metal and organic constituents of air pollution include >>many chemicals known to be carcinogenic ... According to industrial >>reporting required by the EPA, 650,000 tons of hazardous air pollutants >>(air toxics) were released in the United States in 1992. The presence >>of tace amounts of these chemicals in air may be responsible for a >>significant portion of the cancer observed in humans." >>Bernard Nebel, PhD Duke, Richard Wright, PhD Harvard, >>"Environmental Science: The Way The World Works" 5th Edition >>Prentice Hall 1996 >>That's just the contaminants in air. >>Those in food and water add effects. >Of course, the fact that environmental pollutants increase the risk of >cancer in no way implies that they are the sole cause. Or do you have >citable evidence, rather than opinion, to the contrary? Do you claim there must be some other cause for cancer than carcinogens? You make unsubstantiated claims. _____________________________________________________________________________ |Respectfully, Sheila ~~~Word Warrior~~~ green@pipeline.com| |Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:| | This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up| | on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.| | *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FolsomMan wrote: > Diameter tolerances are not the same as roughness. You seem not to > understand the difference. Diameter tolerance is not surface finish. The > flattened poles would come under the tolerances you cite, but mountains > would not. Perhaps you'd like to cite some? -- D. mentock@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~mentock/index.htmReturn to Top
I am searching for some plays on science, excluding the usual suspects: Brecht, Durenmatt, Capek. Any leads appreciated. trothman@pppl.govReturn to Top
In article <5b8tan$7ao$1@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Archimedes.Plutonium@dartmouth.edu (Archimedes Plutonium) writes: > We both accept the fact that 3-adics is a field and that no > primes exist in 3-adics. But the 3-adics are *not* a field. Please read what I write on occasion. The 3-adics are *not* a field because 3 has no inverse in the 3-adics. Moreover, 3 generates a prime ideal in the 3-adics and can be seen as a prime in the 3-adics. (In a field, by definition, *all* elements except 0 have a multiplicative inverse. Show me the inverse of 3 in the 3-adics if you want it to be a field.) -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/Return to Top
erikc wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:21:58 -0600 > CapellaReturn to Top> as message <32D6F946.7A7E@airmail.net> > -- posted from: alt.atheism: > >|erikc wrote: > >|> > >|> On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 06:17:20 -0500 > >|> Trish > >|> as message <32D38240.3DF4@gte.net> > >|> -- posted from: alt.atheism: > >|> > >|> [snip] > >|> >| > >|> >|Do you imply that humans have the ability of an "afterlife" because we > >|> >|have fully developed speech? The differences I discuss are non culture > >|> >|related and non physical. Hell .. we can probably toss out self > >|> >|awareness as well. Chimps have self awareness. > >|> > >|> So do fundys. > >|> > >|> >| > >|> >|Trish > >|> > >|> Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net > >|> > >|> Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include > >|> diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain. > >|> > >|> Wanna see how sick some fundies are? > >|> http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page) > >|> http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever) > >|> /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */ > >| > >| > >|Don't misunderstand, we are not in any way comparing the mental capacity > >|of fundies and chimps. Chimps don't believe in ridiculous non-existent > >|gods... ;-) > > I wasn't trying to imply that fundies up to the mental capacity of chimpanzees > -- only that they had sufficient neural matter to possess self-awareness. > > >|----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >|Capella > >|Dallas, Texas > > Erikc -- firewevr@insync.net > > Fundamentalism -- a disease whose symptoms include > diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain. > > Wanna see how sick some fundies are? > http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page) > http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever) > /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */ I understood, I just didn't want anyone to feel we were insulting the poor chimps! ;-) -- --------------------------------- Capella Dallas, Tx Today's bible wisdom for christians. Lesson two, Joshua does as God commands him: (The battles of Joshua for the possession of cities and genocide of inhabitants) (All verses from book of Joshua NRSV) (more slaughter as commanded by God) (City of Libnah)(10:30) The LORD gave it also and its king into the hand of Israel; and he struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left no one remaining in it; (City of Lachish)(10:32-33) ... and struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah. Then King Horam of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua struck him and his people, leaving him no survivors. (City of Eglon)(10:35) and they took it that day, and struck it with the edge of the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to Lachish. (City of Hebron)(10:37) and struck it with the edge of the sword, and its king and its towns, and every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it. (City of Debir)(10:39-40) and he took it with its king and all its towns; they struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining; So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. (still more of God's slaughter to come...)
John D. Goulden wrote: > Of course pow(2,1/2) won't 'work' in C, nor will any expression in which > 1/2 is intended to produce the value .5. On the other hand pow(2,1.0/2.0) > and pow(2.0,1.0/2.0) produce root 2 on all three of my C compilers. And, indeed, strictly ANSI C conforming. Even on the 1/2 ratio, all you need to do is get one of the values to be a double so that the other is automatically promoted. (This is why either 2 or 2.0 as the first argument are valid.) So pow(2, 1./2); is perfectly valid as well. -- Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"Return to Top
Simon Read wrote: > C I can't comment on. C does not have an exponentiation operator. The expression 2^(1/2) gives you 2, because, although 1/2 is integer division an evaluates to 0, 2^0 does not mean "two raised to the power zero." It in fact means "2 bitwise exclusive disjunction (xor) 0," which is why you get the answer 2. -- Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"Return to Top
Simon Read wrote: > > Christopher R VolpeReturn to Topwrote: > >In C, the expression "2^(1/2)" yields the value "2". The reason why is > >left as an exercise for the reader. > > Fascinating. I can think of three reasons; which one is correct? > > (1) the symbol ^ doesn't mean power, but something else like bit > shift Correct. In fact, it means bitwise exclusive disjunction, or xor. > (2) the (1/2) is evaluated as an integer, giving 1 or 0 depending on the > truncation/rounding rules: is it rounded up or truncated? No. "Integer division" is well defined; you always round down. > (3) integers to the power of an integer are calculated by a loop, which > is eager to execute at least once, so you get 2 instead of 1, even > if the exponent is 0 An actual bug in the language this bad would have been found and corrected by _now_. :-) -- Erik Max Francis | max@alcyone.com Alcyone Systems | http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, California | 37 20 07 N 121 53 38 W &tSftDotIotE; | R^4: the 4th R is respect "You must surely know if man made heaven | Then man made hell"