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Re: Relearning Elasticity -- jnsingle@unity.ncsu.edu (James Neal Singletary)
Re: just ... 999 (nevermind x - 10x) -- David Kastrup
New Astronomy Site -- "thewatch.com"
Re: Stop SI! Part I -- tim@bakeraltech.com (Tim Hopper)
Re: Moon up, satellites down? -- Maurice Mitchell
Re: Q's re "Cold Fusion" article -- jac@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Re: Question regarding Location and Relativity. -- lrmead@whale.st.usm.edu (Lawrence R. Mead)
Re: Antineutrons -- jac@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Re: The Sokal trick -- mahipalvirdy@orbital.fsd.com
Re: Women in Physics -- mahipalvirdy@orbital.fsd.com
Re: Time dilation question -- weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Re: * 3 polarizer problem -- zardoz@icanect.net
Re: Question regarding Location and Relativity. -- Uncle Al Schwartz
Re: How Many Polarizers can Dance on the Head of a Pin? -- vanesch@jamaica.desy.de (Patrick van Esch)
Re: Antineutrons -- Todd Pedlar
Re: QCD history (was Re: QFT Difficulty Update) -- Alan Paic
Re: Gender Bias in peer review -- Peter_Parry@hotmail.com
Politeness -- Peter_Parry@hotmail.com
Books? -- Sam Leitner
Relativity Books -- Sam Leitner
Re: Nanotechnology - this time I've got it! -- Klaus Kassner
Re: Cosmic Censorship -- erg@panix.com (Edward Green)
Re: * 3 polarizer problem -- jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com
Re: Nanotechnology - this time I've got it! -- erg@panix.com (Edward Green)
Re: * 3 polarizer problem -- zardoz@icanect.net
Re: Why do you believe? -- ejones@hooked.net (Earle Jones)
Re: Stuart Kauffman's New Book -- JRStern@gte.net (JRStern)
Re: New theory -- Ralf Kleineisel
Re: Nanotechnology - this time I've got it! -- lugmog96@student.umu.se (Ludvig Mortberg)
Re: Permanent magnetic water softeners? -- dgoncz@aol.com (DGoncz)
Re: Antineutrons -- lockyer@best.com (Thomas N. Lockyer)
Re: Antineutrons -- Thorsten Ohl
Re: Global Worries? See: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/Data/GISTEMP/ -- Fred McGalliard
Re: Global Worries? See: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/Data/GISTEMP/ -- "David B. Green"
Re: Why do you believe? ? -- "Craig L. Hodder"
Re: "PC"- Obsolete?? -- romm@visi.com (David E Romm)
Re: The Butterfly Effect -- dgree2@corp.atl.com
Re: The Butterfly Effect -- kevin@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin A. Scaldeferri)
Re: The Butterfly Effect -- Daniel Bushman
Re: The Butterfly Effect -- kevin@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin A. Scaldeferri)

Articles

Re: Relearning Elasticity
jnsingle@unity.ncsu.edu (James Neal Singletary)
26 Jun 1997 15:08:46 GMT
>> coming to the statement about n=0.25..i am not sure why it should be
>> so. [ that this would be for a perfectly isotropic solid]
>
> One of the scientific greats is alleged to have made a calculation that 
> if there were only central force fields acting between the atoms, then 
> allegedly the Poisson ratio would be something near 0.25, or thereabouts. 
> it kind of makes sense that if there are only central forces, then 
> perhaps there could be enough of an additional constraint to fix a 
> relationship betweeen some of the remaining elastic constants for an 
> isotropic body.  
>
> I've forgotten the famous scientist, but somebody else will remember him.
A.E.H. Love's _Treatise on the Theory of Elasticity_ gives a summary of the
historical debate between those that held that an isotropic material's
elastic behavior could be described by two constants, and those who
made further assumptions (discussed by previous posters) and arrived at
a Poisson's ratio of 1/4 for isotropic materials.  He cites Green, Stokes,
the early works of Cauchy, Lame, and Kirchhoff as either deriving or
assuming that there are two independent elastic constants.  Love cites
Navier, Poisson, and the later works of Cauchy as arriving at Poisson's 
ratio of 1/4 as a consequence of their assumptions.
Love notes that ``...the contraversy concerning [the number of constants]
has lasted almost down to the present time'' (this was the 1920s).  
That there was such a contraversy in those days is understandable -- 
with the tools they had, it would be hard to come up with an experiment 
that could show definitively whether the Poisson's ratio was 0.3 for a 
steel rod, or just 0.25 as predicted, plus some experimental error.  
When I reflect on the bad conclusions that even true geniuses have made
from time-to-time, I feel better about my own work ;-).
--
James Singletary
NCSU College of Textiles | ``It was miraculous.  Each day he faced another
2401 Research Drive      | dangerous mission against mortality.  And he had
Raleigh, NC 27695-8301   | been surviving them for twenty-eight years.''
 (919) 515 4399          |                       --Joseph Heller, _Catch 22_
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Re: just ... 999 (nevermind x - 10x)
David Kastrup
26 Jun 1997 10:19:15 +0200
abian@iastate.edu (Alexander Abian) writes:
> Obviously   ...999  is not a real number in the usual classical sense
> since a real number in the usual classical sense has AN INTEGRAL PART
> OF FINITE LENGTH !!
> 
>  So, one would expect to get incredibly disturbing  results in applying
>  the usual arithmetical rules to   ...999
> 
>  Just to illustrate one case   add  1  to  ...999  and you will get  0
Yes, that's the point.  And multiply
...6666666666667 by 3 and get 1 (meaning that we can represent 1/3 in
such a number system as ...66667).
...33333 is -1/3, and adding 1 to it makes ...3334 2/3 well enough.
Quite a lot of algebra works on such a system.  For making things
unambigous, however, we may only allow a *finite* number of digits to
the *right* of the decimal point, or we get two representations of 1/3,
for example.
Such an algebra is perfectly "usable" for fractions and even some
algebraic numbers, and has a one-to-one correspondance of those
numbers with a period to the left to rationals.  We do not actually
use it, because the ordering relations of such a number system are
decidely less useful than with standard decimals, and the useful maxim
"small errors in variables lead to mostly small errors in results"
does not hold.
Also, conversion between bases is more of a pain, making the number
system be more base-bound than wishable for ordinary math.  And
fitting in transcendentals is bound to be very difficult.
-- 
David Kastrup                                     Phone: +49-234-700-5570
Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de       Fax: +49-234-709-4209
Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
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New Astronomy Site
"thewatch.com"
Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:34:51 -0400
Greetings to all of the astronomy and space enthusiasts online. I am
pleased to announce the beginning of a brand new astronomy/space web
site. The site features a new feature article every week. This site will
also help to guide you to other sources of astronomy on the web,
including up to date links to the latest news articles. There is a
visual slide show of the planets that is currently being constructed as
well. I am currently looking for help in developing this site,
especially the observer's guide section. If you are interested please
let me know.
New Site: The Galactic Core  -  http://www.thewatch.com/galaxy/
E-mail: speljamr@localnet.com
Home Base: http://www.thewatch.com/
Return to Top
Re: Stop SI! Part I
tim@bakeraltech.com (Tim Hopper)
23 Jun 1997 21:35:46 GMT
>
>What I've said here, of course, doesn't mean that there weren't
>situations before the late 1600s in which the force which these
>weights exerted wasn't what people were really interested in.  I'm
>sure you can find many examples of this; somebody must have wondered
>how hard he had to pull to draw a longbow, for example.  That is one
>reason that the same words came to be used for both mass and for
>force.  Nobody had any way to measure force, but objects of the same
>mass do exert pretty much the same force anywhere on the surface of
>the earth, within the precision of most measurements then or now.
>
I'm not sure if someone did'nt have a way to measure force prior to the late 
1600's and I'm pretty sure that someone did have a way to calculate static 
force prior to the late 1600's. The designers of the Church of St. Sophia in 
Constantinople (built AD 532-537) must have had some concept of force as the 
main dome on this church weighs between 3 to 8 million lbm and excerts an 
equal horizontal and vertical reaction of 3 to 8 million lbf. I don't believe 
engineering feats of this magnatude were by trail and error.  
Return to Top
Re: Moon up, satellites down?
Maurice Mitchell
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:28:18 -0700
phs503e@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au wrote:
> It's knows that the Moon is moving *away* from the Earth (few
> centimeters
> a year I think) due to energy lost from tidal friction with the Earth.
>
> But on the other hand a satellite comes *down* when it loses energy
> due to
> friction with the atmosphere. Why the difference?
The PUSH of Gravity predicts the Moon moves away from the Earth during
both solar and lunar eclipses.
Do you, or your associates, know of a physical observation to
prove Gravity is not a PUSH?  Please help us.  Over the past
fifteen years, we have found more than five dozen physical
observations, indicating we need to modify our standard theories
of matter, light and gravity slightly to fit known physical
observations
                            Abstract
The Simple Oppositely Charged Twin Monopole (OCTM) Theory
of Everything is as simple and elegant as its name.
By definition, there is a smallest positively charged
basic Monopole of matter and a smallest negatively
charged basic Monopole of matter.  These basic Monopoles
of matter, are twins with opposite charges.  In the
beginning, the cosmos was filled with these equal and
oppositely charged basic Monopoles of matter.
The two basic Monopoles combine, forming larger
groupings of particles of matter in the shape of
ellipsoids of influence.  These ellipsoids of influence,
automatically assume common crystal latticework
structures of ellipsoids of influence as taught in US
PTO document 'Educational Device and Method' at
.
Electromagnetic spectrum waves are very regular helical
like spirals of twinned domains of these ellipsoids of
influence.  To obtain the relative speed of an
electromagnetic wave, the relative speed of the emitting
surface or reflecting surface must be added to or
subtracted from the speed of the electromagnetic wave.
On Earth, the known force of gravity is the net kinetic
energy differential of incoming basic Monopoles of
matter interacting with your and my basic Monopoles,
impelling our basic Monopoles into the matter shadow of
the basic Monopoles of the Earth as taught in US PTO
document at .
        Simple Oppositely Charged Twin Monopole (OCTM)
                             Theory of Everything
                                       Main Text
 In the Simple Oppositely Charged Twin Monopole (OCTM) Theory of
Everything, Newton's three laws of motion, Coulomb's law of charges, and
Einstein's Energy/Mass equation are true.
 The OCTM Theory of Everything postulates there is a smallest basic
'plus' particle of matter and a smallest basic 'minus' particle of
matter, each being a Monopole of influence and a twin of the other.  All
larger particles of matter are postulated to comprise these two basic
particles.
 Any defined volume of space is postulated to be completely void of
matter or contain one or more of the smallest basic particles of matter.
 Initially, in deep space two basic Monopoles, being of opposite or like
charge, attract and/or repel each other according to Coulomb's law of
charges.  When two oppositely charged basic Monopoles are close enough
to each other, so their fields of influence, according to Coulomb's law
of charges, are strong enough to overcome their relative net vector
linear momentum's, according to Newton's three laws of motion, the two
basic particles link forming the smallest postulated basic dipole of
matter.
 When two oppositely charged Monopoles of matter attract each other as
above, they travel pursuit courses toward each other at an accelerating
relative velocity.  Occasionally, their initial pursuit courses are on
perfectly centered straight lines resulting in a perfect, direct,
head-on collision.  Such a perfect, direct, head-on collision results in
an enormous release of kinetic energy, raising the temperature of the
particles to the temperature range of some of the particles of matter in
the corona of the Sun.
 Most of the particles of matter, attracting each other as above, have
initial relative net vector momentum paths that are not on perfect,
direct, head-on collision paths.  Their courses are paired, curved,
pursuit courses.  By Newton's three laws of motion and Coulomb's law of
charges, these paired, pursuit courses effectively change most of the
initial relative net vector linear momentum of the particles into
angular momentum of rotation, of the particles of matter.
 If the above dipole is rotating slowly enough for Newton's laws of
motion to overcome Coulomb's law of charges, it becomes a stable
arrangement of particles of matter.  When this dipole is viewed from the
outside, in the plane of rotation, the "plus" and "minus" hemispheres of
charge are alternating so rapidly, the dipole of matter "seems" to have
no charge when observed in current bubble chambers.
 The smallest stable rotating tetrahedron of four particles is formed
from two basic dipoles.
 The smallest stable rotating octahedron of six basic particles is
formed either from three basic dipoles of matter, or from four basic
particles of matter of one charge and two basic particles of matter of
opposite charge.
 The dipoles of matter form into tetrahedrons, and octahedrons, or
larger combinations, that arrange themselves into helical-like spirals
of twinned domains, as taught in US PTO document 'Educational Device and
Method' at , when they are emitted from
larger groupings of particles of matter.
 These smallest arrangements of basic particles of matter continue to
build into larger arrangements of basic particles, essentially
maintaining the one "minus" particle for each "plus" particle with a few
odd "plus" or "minus" particles in the outer layers of the particles of
matter until a sufficiently large number of particles have combined to
form the hydrogen atom and isotopes of hydrogen.  As taught by the OCTM
Theory of Everything, deep space is filled with hydrogen and isotopes of
hydrogen.  All elements can be formed from the particles of matter in
hydrogen.
 Dr. Louis A. Frank's fluffy hundred ton snowballs hitting the upper
atmosphere at the rate of more than forty thousand per day is an example
of this.  See
.
 The combinations of particles of matter form crystals, solids, liquids,
gases and the very regular helical like spirals of particles of matter
in electromagnetic spectrum waves, including light.
  In the OCTM Theory of Everything the speed of electromagnetic spectrum
of particles of matter, is a function of the escape velocity necessary
for basic Monopoles of matter, according to Newton's laws of motion, to
overcome Coulomb's law of attraction.  The relative speed of the
emitting surface must be added to or subtracted from the escape velocity
of the emitted spiral rays of matter.  As predicted by the OCTM Theory
of Everything, the famous Michelson-Morley experiment on the speed of
light gives a null result in all directions.  A different interpretation
of the measurements of this famous experiment has caused unnecessary
modification of some great theories of Newton and other scientists.
 In the OCTM Theory of Everything, neutrinos, which seem to have no
charge, are rapidly rotating particles of matter containing equal
numbers of oppositely charged basic Monopoles of matter.  The diameter
of the "hard mass center" of the Monopoles is very small in relation to
the average distance between the "hard mass centers" of the twelve or so
closest Monopoles that touch the center Monopole in the crust of the
Earth.  The average distance between "hard mass centers" of Monopoles
has been estimated to be as much as 30,000 to 90,000 the "hard mass
center" diameter.  The diameters of the "hard mass centers" of neutrinos
are so small, if only one was passing through the earth by itself at one
time, the probability of it hitting another particle of matter in the
earth has been estimated to be between one chance in 10.0E10 and one
chance in 10.0E27.
 However, by some estimates there are about 10.0E23 neutrinos coming in
from space each second for each square centimeter of the area of the
atmosphere of the Earth.  In the OCTM Theory of Everything, the increase
in atmospheric pressure as one approaches sea level is the direct result
of the net balance of the kinetic energy force of particles from space,
acting on the particles of matter in the atmosphere.  The increase in
temperature as one goes down into the Earth is the direct result of the
kinetic energy force of particles of matter from space, acting on the
particles of matter in the Earth.  As one goes down into the Earth, the
rate of temperature increase is about the same until around 12,000
meters.  At about 12,000 meters, the rate of temperature increase begins
to increase at a faster rate than before.  The "cascade effect" of
particle collisions begins to be evident.
 The "cascade effect" is where an incoming particle of matter, traveling
at about the speed of light, hits a particle of matter in the Earth and
then two or more particles of matter travel from the collision in
different directions.  These particles of matter on average, are
traveling at less than half the speed of light, and are more likely to
hit other particles of matter in the Earth.  When these particles of
matter traveling at less than half speed, hit other particles of matter,
there are more than four particles of matter traveling at less than one
fourth speed going in many random directions.  When these particles of
matter traveling at less than one fourth speed hit other particles of
matter, there are more than eight particles of matter traveling on
average less than one-eighth speed going in even more random directions.
 Soon this "cascade effect" causes more incoming particles to combine
with Earth particles, causing the Earth to expand from its center at an
ever increasing rate.  This is shown at
.
 Our Ocean floors are only two hundred million years old or less.  Our
Oceans are spreading apart and have middle trenches that are also
becoming longer as demonstrated by their many cross rifts.  This is
shown at .
 A small amount of the total original net kinetic energy force
accelerates the Earth-Moon system into the "matter shadow" of the Sun,
or into their mutual "matter shadows".
 In the OCTM Theory of Everything the force of gravity is the net
balance of kinetic energy force of all particles of matter from space,
driving two or more groupings of particles of matter into each other's
mutual "matter shadows".  The net imbalance of the electromagnetic
radiation on the particles of two facing objects drives the objects
toward each other.
 Scientists know (1) the Moon is locked in orbit with it's more massive
side pointed away from the Earth, (2) the Moon is slowly moving away
from the center of the Earth, (3) the rotation of the Earth about its
North-South axis is slowing down, and (4) the actual "tide action" not
fully understood, requiring that "Tide Tables" be continually updated.
The traditional PULL of Gravity Theory does not have completely
acceptable answers to why these four measured actions occur.  The
"dumbbell" and "Tidal Force" theories are postulated but many scientists
agree the theories are not convincing.
 The OCTM Theory of Everything predicts these four natural events as
follows:
 (1) The massive end of an object in orbit automatically attempts to
point into the income particles from space and the object locks in
orbit, like a dart.
 (2) The action of both Lunar and Solar eclipses PUSH the Earth and Moon
apart.
 (3) The mass of the particles from space, which are absorbed by the
Earth, increases the combined mass of the Earth.  By Newton's laws of
motion, this slows the rotation of the Earth down.
 (4) Water of lakes, seas and oceans, up swell into the center of the
"Matter shadows", of the Earth and the Moon, as they slowly move across
the bodies of water.  The areas opposite the "Matter shadows" receive
the full flux of incoming particles from space.  The traditional PULL of
Gravity mechanics and mathematics give different answers for the "Tidal
force".
  The OCTM Theory of Everything gives Newton's Universal Equation of
Gravity, adjusted for traveling at the speed of light.  The force of
gravity causes moons to orbit their planets and planets to orbit the Sun
at radii that are 3/2ths power of their distances from their mutual
centers.
 At any given point in orbit, the equal areas of the two circular
Moon-Earth "matter shadows" are a function of the square of the radius
of the Moon or Earth and the distance between the centers of the Moon
and Earth.  At the same point, the masses of the Earth and Moon are a
function of the cube of their radii.  The radii of the Moon and Earth
can be expressed as a function of the distance between their mutual
centers.  Mathematically the equation for the net balance of kinetic
energy force of gravity can be expressed as a function of the masses
being accelerated toward each other, divided by the area of their mutual
"matter shadows".  In other words, the force of gravity can be expressed
as a function of the cubes of the radii of the Moon and Earth (masses),
divided by a function of the square of the radius of either the Moon or
Earth (area of mutual "matter shadows").  This net balance of kinetic
energy force of gravity travels at the speed of the incoming particles
of matter from space, (speed of light).  The radius of the mutual
"matter shadows" can be expressed as a function of the square of the
distance between their mutual centers.  Therefore the OCTM Theory of
Everything predicts the force of gravity travels at the speed of light,
and can be expressed "as the 3/2ths power of the distances" between the
centers of the Earth and the Moon.
 The masses of the Moon and Earth are essentially constant during an
orbit.  The net kinetic energy force of matter from space, per square
centimeter, hitting the areas opposite their mutual "matter shadows" is
essentially constant during an orbit.  The areas opposite their mutual
"matter shadows" change just like their mutual "matter shadows" change,
depending on the point in orbit and the distance between their mutual
centers.  At any point in orbit, the Earth and Moon automatically move
into a dynamic net kinetic energy force balance, where the areas
receiving net kinetic energy force are just the right size to provide
the necessary net kinetic energy force to accelerate the Moon mass and
Earth mass toward each other to maintain their mutual orbits.
 The tangential speeds of the Moon and Earth in their orbits are not
substantially changed due to the action of the net balance of kinetic
energy force acting on their mutual "matter shadows".  When the distance
between their mutual centers increases as it does during an orbit, the
net balance of kinetic energy force decreases.  When the distance
between their mutual centers decreases as it does in orbit, the net
balance of kinetic energy force increases.  The greater distance between
their mutual centers, increases the time, the net balance of kinetic
energy force acts during a given arc of an orbit.  The smaller distance
between their mutual centers, decreases the time, the net balance of
kinetic energy force acts during a given arc of an orbit.  The
Earth-Moon orbit is a delicate balancing act of the area the net kinetic
energy force is acting on and the time this net kinetic energy force is
acting during a given arc of the orbit.
 Mathematically, according to the OCTM Theory of Everything, two
spherical masses of matter orbiting each other, are accelerated toward
each other with a net kinetic energy force of gravity proportional to
their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance
between them, where the net kinetic energy force of gravity travels at
the speed of particles of matter from space, (speed of light).
 The far side of the Moon points away from the center of the Earth.
Based on certain measurements over the past two hundred years, most
Scientists agree the center of the Moon has, on balance, moved away from
the center of the Earth.
 Mathematically, except during eclipses, the traditional attractive
force of gravity theory and the balance of net kinetic energy force of
gravity of the OCTM Theory of Everything give almost the same results.
Without eclipses, both predict the Moon will move closer to the Earth
over a long period of time, just as a satellite's orbit slowly decays
and falls into the atmosphere.  However, when eclipses are factored in,
the OCTM theory predicts that on balance the masses of the Moon will
move away from the Earth, as has been demonstrated through experimental
observation.
 The net kinetic energy force of gravity of the OCTM Theory of
Everything explains mathematically how the Moon's most massive side can
remain locked in orbit essentially pointing away from the center of the
Earth, and how the Moon can very slowly move away from the Earth, when
eclipses are involved.
 When a Solar eclipse occurs, the normal "net kinetic energy Sun matter
shadow" on the Earth is partially blocked by the "net kinetic energy
Moon matter shadow" on the Earth.  When this occurs, more total net
kinetic energy force from space is pushing on the Earth from the
direction of the Sun and Moon.  As long as this Solar eclipse continues,
this additional net kinetic energy force pushes the Earth away from the
Sun and Moon more than would have been the case if the Solar eclipse had
not occurred.
 When a Lunar eclipse occurs, the normal "net kinetic energy Sun matter
shadow" on the Moon is partially blocked by the "net kinetic energy
Earth matter shadow" on the Moon.  When this occurs, more total net
kinetic energy force from space is pushing on the Moon from the
direction of the Sun and Earth.  As long as this Lunar eclipse
continues, this additional net kinetic energy force pushes the Moon away
from the Sun and Earth more than would have been the case if the Lunar
eclipse had not occurred.
 During both Solar and Lunar eclipses the distance between the Earth and
the Moon is being increased by a slight amount.  As predicted by the
OCTM Theory of Everything, by actual measurements over the past 200
hundred years, the center of the Moon has slowly moved away from the
center of the Earth.
 The Moon is currently locked in orbit with it's "far side" always
essentially pointing away from Earth.  As predicted by the OCTM Theory
of Everything, the Moon is locked in orbit with it's more massive side
essentially pointing away from the center of the Earth.
 The Earth rate of rotation about its North-South axis is very slowly
decreasing.  As predicted by the OCTM Theory of Everything, the Earth is
absorbing some of the particles from space and gradually increasing its
total combined Mass.  By Newton's laws of motion, the Earth's rate of
rotation must slow down when its mass is increased by the absorption of
the particles of matter from space in the balanced net kinetic energy
force of the PUSH of Gravity.
 The OCTM Theory of Everything brings the force of gravity into
agreement with Einstein's famous Energy/Mass equation.  The OCTM Theory
of Everything is in agreement with the experimental results of presently
known experiments on solids, liquids, gases, light and the other
electromagnetic spectrum particles of matter.  The simplicity of the
OCTM Theory of Everything is elegant.
--
Mitch
mitch1@accessnv.com
mitchbicpu.com
Maurice E. Mitchell, Retired Independent Businessman
MSME (Heat Transfer) UC Berkeley
10306 Cogswell Ave.,
Las Vegas, NV 89134
(702)243-6837
FAX (702)243-9135
--
Mitch
mitch1@accessnv.com
mitchbicpu.com
--
Mitch
mitch1@accessnv.com
mitchbicpu.com
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Re: Q's re "Cold Fusion" article
jac@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
26 Jun 1997 13:26:48 GMT
 Note that I have added the fusion newsgroup to this reply and set 
 followups there.  Do not be dismayed by the current discussion of 
 centripetal forces, which seems to have a life of its own.  These 
 questions belong there, and those belong in sci.physics, but such 
 is life on Usenet....   
kfoster@shell.rmii.com (Kurt Foster) writes:
>
>  An article trumpeting the commercialization of "cold fusion" appears in
>the "Science Fact" section of the July/August 1997 issue of ANALOG
>magazine.
>  Not having read or heard much on the topic in several years, I'm not
>familiar with Patterson Power Cells (tm), Jed Rothwell or the author of
>the article, one Dr. Eugene F. Mallove.
 I find this last statement hard to believe, since both Rothwell and 
 Mallove have been involved in CF-related matters from the beginning, 
 Eugene Mallove has written one of the books on the early history of 
 the subject, and both have posted extensively in the fusion newsgroup 
 for many years. 
 The Patterson cell, and his company CETI, have only been a factor in 
 the last two years or so.  Of course, this means that a dejanews search 
 with Patterson and CETI and Miley in the search string for the group 
 sci.physics.fusion will locate lots of articles within their data base 
 (which only goes back a few years).  There is no need for a more tedious 
 search of the fusion newsgroup archives. 
>  Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone in sci.physics or sci.skeptic was
>familiar with Dr. Mallove, Mr. Rothwell, the "Patterson Power Cell (tm)"
>or the current status of scientific work investigating the claims of Pons
>and Fleischmann. 
 Yes. 
 Again, note followups to sci.physics.fusion if you wish to discuss 
 the physics issues and claims.  Cross post to skeptic if you wish, 
 but the fusion newsgroup was created expressly to eliminate cross 
 posts to the general physics discussion newsgroup. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        | Commercial e-mail is _NOT_ 
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       | desired to this or any address 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  | that resolves to my account 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    | for any reason at any time. 
Return to Top
Re: Question regarding Location and Relativity.
lrmead@whale.st.usm.edu (Lawrence R. Mead)
26 Jun 1997 13:14:42 GMT
Harold Erwin Shiffman (hes124@mail.usask.ca) wrote:
: 	According to the General Theory of Relativity and the fact that
: light does not appear to travel in straight lines through space, how is it
: possible for future generations to actually reach their intended
: destinations?
Huh? How does the curvature of space imply this?
: 	Is it not possible that, after observing the location of a star
: from Earth, someone sets out to reach that star only to find that the star
: itself does not exist at that location? How can anyone guarantee the
: location of anything in space? 
Just as in Newtonian theory - you calculate the proper trajectory taking
the local curvature into account and make sure you follow it. Why would you
miss?
: 	With the possibility of many, unknown, heavy-mass objects such as
: black holes and the like, couldn't light be bent, curved, and turned
: around many times before actually reaching us?
Yes, of course not knowing about an object you must pass near means you
will suffer a deflection - and if it is a black hole, perhaps you will
suffer more than that. I don't know what you mean by "turned around", but
the same situation obtains in Newtonian theory as well.
: 	If so, what implications does this have on our current
: undersanding of things outside?
Very little. Indeed, the curvature effects you are worried about (the
larger of them, anyway) have *enhanced* our understanding of things outside;
for example, gravitational lensing of galaxies has provided rather dramatic
confirmation of GR.
-- 
Lawrence R. Mead (lrmead@whale.st.usm.edu) 
ESCHEW OBFUSCATION ! ESPOUSE ELUCIDATION !
http://www-dept.usm.edu/~scitech/phy/mead.html 
Return to Top
Re: Antineutrons
jac@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
26 Jun 1997 13:08:48 GMT
lockyer@svpal.svpal.org (Thomas Lockyer) writes:
> 
>: A neutrino is the only particle with spin 1/2 that has no
>: electromagnetic charge, so it makes sense it has no electromagnetic
>: charge currents.
>
>Josh, it is my belief, based on the vector models that give me a sturcture
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>for the neutrinos, that the neutrino does not spin.  
 It is far better to test your ideas, such as the assertion that the 
 neutrino has a charge current ignored in this reply and the new claim 
 that angular momentum is not conserved in reactions involving neutrinos, 
 against experiment rather than the model that produced the ideas in the 
 first place.  
 That Thomas' model clearly describes how it gets results that disagree 
 with experiment is not in question. 
 Note followups to sci.physics.particle.  Other comments on other articles 
 in this thread will be exclusively in that newsgroup. 
-- 
 James A. Carr        | Commercial e-mail is _NOT_ 
    http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/       | desired to this or any address 
 Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst.  | that resolves to my account 
 Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306    | for any reason at any time. 
Return to Top
Re: The Sokal trick
mahipalvirdy@orbital.fsd.com
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:11:45 -0600
In article <5oreie$gvn@panix2.panix.com>,
  erg@panix.com (Edward Green) wrote:
>
> Herve Le Cornec   wrote:
>
> >Hello world,
> >
> >did you speak about the Sokal trick in here ?
>
> I seem to recall one or two posts.  Try DejaNews if you have web
> access,  and a few thousand hours to spare.
>
> >If so let it be, otherwise what do you think about it ?
>
> My feeling is that the joke is on the physical scientists who want to
> read this single data point as a resounding 'proof' that some segment
> of the social sciences is baloney.
>
> Single data point = update of Bayesian probabilities;  dependent on
> prior model.   End of analysis.   It's not a point in the victims'
> favor that they published his malarky,  and that's about all you can
> say.  End of analysis.
>
> I'll have a baloney sandwich please,  malarky on the side.
May I join you for lunch? I'll have a cup of java too. :-)
Sokal's Trick or Hoax or ... I remember the 1 or 2 (is it?) posts. It was
funny to see how seriously the publishing world of journals take
themselves. No sense of humor nor wonder at all. Everything published is
by default assumed to be more than amply _worth_ the publishing! Right?
Eat my Sarcasm Sandwich. Ymmm.
All the anti-Sokal crowd had to say was: Just look at your journals! Most
of the crap you scientist types write goes unread. Save the authors and
peers. And even their kids don't want a token copy of your writings.
Or some such. People with printing presses tend to get blinded by
writing. Especially their own. They seek Peer Brand Recognition Stamp of
Approval above all respect else. Thank God for Internet. At least it
offers some level of actual contact between individuals of like minds.
All the published journals and books are like artificial documents
approved by Committee! From the Marketing guys to the postal carriers who
insist that each packet not be oversized in either mass or volume.
It's quite literally true that only 3 or 4 editors per journal decide
what the Stamp of Approval per their Journal is! Three or four only! Hi
guys/gals.
                     /\  "If the line between science fiction and
                      /   science fact doesn't drive you crazy,
 /\                   \   then you're just not tr(y)ing!"
 \       /\/\  /  \  \/                            Mahipal
 /   ==  \  /  \/\/                                The |meforce> Paradox
 \/                       http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3178/mew3.html
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Re: Women in Physics
mahipalvirdy@orbital.fsd.com
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:41:19 -0600
In article ,
  phjxc@zeus.bris.ac.uk (Jaya Chakrabarti) wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Every year, my department holds a "Women in Physics" one day
> open day, where girls from local schools who are just about to
> choose their GCSE options are invited to think about physics as
> one of them.
>
> I've been asked to find dynamic and exciting web pages on
> different aspects of physics that will appeal to these young
> (14 year old) minds.  So - I'd really appreciate some suggestions
> and addresses of fun pages that will emphasize the "phun in physics"
> and if possible, the fact that women do feature in the careers
> identified.
>
> (those of you who read the article in New Scientist on the bleak
> prospects for women in research and funding, may wish to hold
> back any cynicism for the time being!)
Who really cares about the job prospects! The subject matter is just too
fascinating. Besides, young women advance on up to become mothers. And in
times like that, they could say to themselves "Hey, I new I couldn't work
that much anyway when the kids came. At least I had the good sense and
studied physics. Now I can think about how the Universe works in which I
raise my kids!"
> Thanks very much in advance, please email your answers to me
> just in case I miss the reply here on the newsgroup..
>
> - Jaya Chakrabarti-Gallemore
> University of Bristol
The subject of Physics transcends just being a "physicist", employed or
otherwise. Physics can influence all sorts of fields, from finance to
literature! So, regardless of what subject women do, it's going to be a
good idea to learn basic Physics. A couple of courses in undergrad work
could only help one's education. If it effects your grade point average
too much, jump ship. College is for learning what you *are* good at.
For some representative example of how Physics influences literature,
consider that some departments offer courses like "Physics for Poets".
Poets of any gender, I might add.
If you read my webpage below, you'll see an example of just how one
individual mixed "phyics and poetry" in the name of Art&Fun.;
As I part, let me say, this certainly has been the most attractive physics
audience I've ever addressed. ;-)
                     /\  "If the line between science fiction and
                      /   science fact doesn't drive you crazy,
 /\                   \   then you're just not tr(y)ing!"
 \       /\/\  /  \  \/                            Mahipal
 /   ==  \  /  \/\/                                The |meforce> Paradox
 \/                       http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3178/mew3.html
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet
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Re: Time dilation question
weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
26 Jun 1997 14:18:07 GMT
In article <33B1A37A.5DFE@cadvision.com>, grossep When the ship turns around, it switches from one FOR to another.
>That's why in the end, the ship's clock counts less travel time than
>the earth's clock.  Remember special relativity only deals with FORs
>that do not accelerate.
SR deals with accelerating frames easily enough.  It's called "calculus".
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Return to Top
Re: * 3 polarizer problem
zardoz@icanect.net
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:10:23 -0500
In article , meron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>When physicists say that photons are real, they mean by this that 
>electromagnetic interactions are consistent with the assumption that 
>there exist individual entities which, in their interactions, exchange 
>energy and momentum in a manner consistentwith the laws of particle 
>dynamics.  That's all.  Physics deals with interactions and it can't 
>tell you anything about what happens between them.  So you can feel 
>free to believe in whatever you wish in this respect.
Ah but it's not a belief of mine either way. On the contrary, the belief
about the reality of photons between events comes from others. As you
described, it's nothing more than an assumption. Its a belief that comes
without any evidential bases.
>As an example, I did read a post of yours yesterday, and I do read 
>another one now.  Did you exist between the two events?  Base on the 
>information at my disposal I really can't tell.
People and other macro objects display themselves as measurable entities.
Once I've established their existence, I need not look at them to arrive
at a predictable conclusion about their existence. (Note, I do not buy the
observer creator universe hypothesis.)  I may not know about your
whereabouts or alias but I have no knowledge about people disappearing
while I'm not "watching" them. I determine physical existence based on
some evidential grounds. However, with photons, we've never established an
existence between events to form a reference point to begin with.
{{Because we can deflect electrons with a magnetic field. 
>And we can deflect photons using a curved optical fiber.  So?
An optical fiber consists of matter. The deflections say nothing at all
about photons *between* deflections. Electrons, on the other hand, consist
of matter themselves and can be deflected by non-matter (magnetic field).
It's not a symmetrical.  The alleged photons cannot be detected, or
deflected in this manner. We only know about light quanta from measuring
matter. 
>That's only meaningful if you define particle as "something that has 
>finite charge and mass".  In which case the "particles" you're talking 
>about aren't the same as the ones that physicists are talking about.
Indeed a more meaningful definition of a discrete particle may very well
involve nothing more than mass. The conceptual problems come when defining
massless events as discrete particles without supporting evidence. I for
one, see no need for defining light in this way.
Zardoz
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Re: Question regarding Location and Relativity.
Uncle Al Schwartz
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:21:43 -0700
Harold Erwin Shiffman wrote:
> 
>         According to the General Theory of Relativity and the fact that
> light does not appear to travel in straight lines through space, how is it
> possible for future generations to actually reach their intended
> destinations?
> 
>         Is it not possible that, after observing the location of a star
> from Earth, someone sets out to reach that star only to find that the star
> itself does not exist at that location? How can anyone guarantee the
> location of anything in space?
> 
>         With the possibility of many, unknown, heavy-mass objects such as
> black holes and the like, couldn't light be bent, curved, and turned
> around many times before actually reaching us?
> 
>         If so, what implications does this have on our current
> undersanding of things outside?
The deviations of lightpaths made possible by even galaxy-sized masses and distances 
are rather small.  Trips of a few or a few dozen lightyears will not be affected at 
all (worry more about the usual errors in 3-space placement).  If you are travelling 
outside the local glaxay you do what ocean navigators do - you see where the !*$#!! 
you are vs where you dead reckoning should be given the vagaries of wind and current.
-- 
Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz
UncleAl0@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
uncleal@uvic.ca        (to 30 July, cAsE-sensitive!)
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!
Return to Top
Re: How Many Polarizers can Dance on the Head of a Pin?
vanesch@jamaica.desy.de (Patrick van Esch)
26 Jun 1997 09:16:25 GMT
Edward Green (erg@panix.com) wrote:
:   wrote:
: >  zardoz@icanect.net wrote:
: >
: >> There exists no evidence whatsoever that photons
: >>interact with other photons between emission and detection.  Intersecting
: >>light "beams" in a vacuum have no effect on each other, no matter what
: >>frequency or how powerful their sources. We only know about photons in
: >>matter events.
: I am not sure whether there exists a region of 'non-linear' optics at
: high field strength or not.  Photon-photon scattering would amount to this.
It happens, according to QED.  It is a higher-order
diagram, and rather suppressed, but it goes like
photon -> e+e- pair , one of themabsorbs the other photon,
the other e sends out a photon, and e+ e- recombines into
a photon.
So, 2 photons in, 2 other photons out.
This diagram has 4 QED vertices, so it is suppressed
with 4 powers of alpha = 1/137. 
cheers,
Patrick.
--
Patrick Van Esch
mail:   vanesch@dice2.desy.de
for PGP public key: finger vanesch@dice2.desy.de
Return to Top
Re: Antineutrons
Todd Pedlar
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:06:57 -0500
Thomas Lockyer wrote:
> 
> .com> <33B04D3B.1CFB@numep0.phys.nwu.edu>:
> Distribution:
> 
> Todd Pedlar (todd@numep0.phys.nwu.edu) wrote:
> : Thomas N. Lockyer wrote:
> : >
> : > Anthony Potts  writes:
> : > Anthony, I have to assume that when three things always occur together, i.e.
> : > spin, rest mass and magnetic moment, that they are all intimately and
> : > inseparably connected. That is, spin, mass and magnetic moment cannot exist
> : > without the other.  
Would you say that objects with the same spin and mass should 
have similar magnetic moments? 
Again, here is a point that people have pointed out to you, but 
you have conveniently ignored.
The photon is observed to have a spin angular momentum of 1. 
It has no rest mass, and no magnetic moment.
The neutrino is observed to have spin angular momentum of 1/2.
It has no rest mass, and no magnetic moment.
Secondly, you've claimed elsewhere that the neutrino has no
spin when in isolation, but has spin when in conjunction with 
other particles.  So it is a boson sometimes, and a fermion other
times?
> : >If spin occurs in isolation, what happened to the energy
> : > stored in the spin angular momentum?
> : Do you think the electron, which is massive and has a spin,
> : is actually physically spinning?
> 
> : Do you think the proton, which is massive, and has spin,
> : is actually spinning?
> 
> Todd, yes, I believe that the particles are spinning by virtue of
> the momentum of their structural photons acting at a radius of gyration.
> Read on.
> 
> : Do you think a particle with no magnetic moment is not
> : spinning?
> 
> If a particle is not spinning it will have no magnetic moment, like the
> alpha particle, for example.  Individual protons and neutrons in the alpha
> particle, however, are spinning, but their spins and magnetic moments buck
> out giving the alpha particle zero spin and no magnetic moment.
This would jive with your idea that the photon, which has no 
magnetic moment, must not spin.  I see.
> : Secondly, a particle with no mass can indeed have spin.
> : The photon clearly has spin, and you cannot argue that it
> : has rest mass.  So what is spinning?
> 
> I have trouble with that.  I don't see how the photon can spin, rather I
> would view spin as elliptical or circular polarization due to two photons
> displaced in phase.
So you claim that the photon does not have spin?
> : > In all other basic particles, the energy
> : > stored in the spin is exactly equal to the rest mass energy.
> 
> : Another gem of particle physics knowledge.  Who taught you
> : this crap?  It's so wrong it's not funny.
> Rest mass is simply the result of spin.  Who needs the Higgs, and what
> would you do with the Higgs to get exact mass energy, if you had it?
I see.  What of particles which have no spin?  Are they massless?
Your arguments are going in circles.
------------------------------------------------------------------
   Todd K. Pedlar - Northwestern Univ., Nucl. & Particle Physics
     FNAL E835    Homepage: http://numep1.phys.nwu.edu/tkp.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
   Phone:  (847) 491-8630  (630) 840-8048  Fax: (847) 491-8627
------------------------------------------------------------------
Controversy equalizes fools and wise men in the same way --and the 
fools know it.                          
				             Oliver Wendell Holmes
------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to Top
Re: QCD history (was Re: QFT Difficulty Update)
Alan Paic
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:54:34 +0200
tnteslen@sfu.ca wrote:
> 
> Patrick Van Esch (vanesch@club.innet.be) wrote:
> : Edward Green wrote:
> : >
> : > As for why sci.physics and not sci.physics.particle;  partially a
> : > punctilious effort not to offend the sophisticated readers of s.p.p.,
> : > partially for the practical reason I am not reading that group.   Ok,
> : > so under your motivation I subscribed to s.p.p.,  and of course I find
> : > that 90 - 95% of the threads are the same as sci.physics!   Everything
> : > is cross posted!   What a sad state of affairs.  :-(
> 
> : well, guess I'm not being very "professional" now :-)
> 
> : But I have a question that belongs in both groups.
> : Does anyone know the early history of the discovery of QCD ?
> : I don't actually know who was the main proponent !
> : While the electroweak sector is always attributed to
> : Weinberg et al., what names are to be associated to QCD ?
> 
> : cheers,
> : Patrick.
> 
>  I would say, D.Gross, F.Wilchek, Politzer, M. Gell-Mann.
>  Somebody of course can enlarge this set....
> 
>  Cheers, Andy Inopin
	Well, the evolution equations for parton structure functions are
due to Gribov, Lipatov, Altarelli and Parisi.
					Alan
Return to Top
Re: Gender Bias in peer review
Peter_Parry@hotmail.com
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:34:03 -0600
In article <19970626014201.VAA22094@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
  hntrros@aol.com (HntrRos) wrote:
>
> Altavoz  writes:
>
> :Eric Lucas wrote:
> :
> :>Don't get me wrong, however;  I think Altavoz is an idiot for claiming
> :>that it has anything to do with Dr. Einstein's maleness.
> :
> :You have no background in the area of brain characterization .
> :I do .
>
> So what is your background?
>
> :You are the idiot , taking a strong oppinion in an area you
  Please don't be so abusive.
> :know nothing about .
>
> You're not native to English, I gather?
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Politeness
Peter_Parry@hotmail.com
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:41:03 -0600
People should always be polite. Don't you think so?
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Books?
Sam Leitner
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:07:25 -0400
What are some good relativity books that explain things well for a
beginner-intermediate person interested in physics? I recently read
Black holes and Time Warps by Kip Thorne and that was moderately easy
reading. Any suggestions?
Return to Top
Relativity Books
Sam Leitner
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:05:40 -0400
What are some good relativity books that explain things well for a
beginner-intermediate person interested in physics? I recently read
Black holes and Time Warps by Kip Thorne and that was moderately easy
reading. Any suggestions?
Return to Top
Re: Nanotechnology - this time I've got it!
Klaus Kassner
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:08:04 +0200
Bryan W. Reed wrote:
> Ludvig Mortberg  wrote:
> >Thanks for your replies! I think I need to sharpen my arguments
> >against nanotech. Lets first define a nanomachine. First it should be
> >able to pick up individual atoms or molecules. Second it should be
> >able to assemble these into structures. That is atoms into molecules
> >or crystals. And they should be able to do so even if the reactions is
> >energetically unfavourable, in case it would need a source of free
> >energy.
This machine exists already. It is the STM. They have used it to arrange
35 atoms on the surface of a crystal to form the word "IBM".
Return to Top
Re: Cosmic Censorship
erg@panix.com (Edward Green)
26 Jun 1997 10:38:28 -0400
Jim Carr  wrote:
> I would not repost the URL, which merely serves the spammer's purpose. 
>
> The message ID identifies the article sufficiently. 
Good point.  I may have goofed on that one.  I felt a cut and paste
complaint to MCI and Pacific Bell -- two enterprises whose machines were
apparently diddled into incontinence by spammers -- would be most
effective if the full offensive content was preserved.  How are they
going to know what you are complaining about if the message is gone
from their machines?
I sent email to both of these entities and have no response.  That is
why I felt a minor sort of campaign of public embarrassment might by
get their attention.  All using publicly posted header information,
of course.   Even if this were forged,  they should be interested in
protecting their good name,  and thank us for our interest.
The story about the cancelations is that the forces of goodness and
light,  having found the spam embedded in my article,  cancelled it.
Which doesn't explain of course why the original offending article can
still be found.  Perhaps its techniopath authors are able to
repromulgate the original with the same article ID,  a feat denied to
us poor mortals.
Like I said;  it is ironic that the system is able to effectively
squelch me,  but not the offender.  My unscientific impression is that
technical leadership is passing from the sysadmin community to the
spammer community,  since the former seem unable to mount a successful
defense against the current wave of spam and UCE.  No doubt there are
some special circumstances why "it's not their fault",  but that is
irrelevant.  Maybe they can be embarrassed into action.  They draw
paychecks,  don't they?  I learned this tactic in the military;  hold
somebody responsible for something whether or not all the factors
involved are in his control.  That way if she fails, you can at least
be sure he gave it his best shot!   Screw fairness.  Someone is
responsible.
Return to Top
Re: * 3 polarizer problem
jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com
Thu, 26 Jun 97 13:51:40 GMT
In article <866983544.20366@dejanews.com>, carver3141@aol.com wrote:
>In article <5o5u7t$6v2$1@decius.ultra.net>,
>  jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com wrote:
>> (snip)
>> All right. That's enough.  Your arguments are taking on the flavor of a
>> pre-adolescent female who uses a circuitous style of argument for the
>> sole purpose of putting herself at the center of attention with no real
>> interest in a serious discussion of the subject.
>(snip)
>
>
>It sounds like YOU'RE the one acting like a preadolescent.
>
I'm curious why you think this.  I wish you had not snipped the surrounding 
discussion that prompted me to make the above statement (among others that 
were more important, IMO).  Have you been following the thread for the last 
month or so?
BTW, I didn't know that this post existed until someone pointed it out to 
me; sorry for the delay in responding.
/BAH
Return to Top
Re: Nanotechnology - this time I've got it!
erg@panix.com (Edward Green)
26 Jun 1997 10:51:30 -0400
Ludvig Mortberg  wrote:
>An example: it should be possible to pick up two atoms, one of
>nitrogen and the other of oxygen and press them togheter so that NO
>forms (energy needed), or press one atom of hydrogen and one of
>clorine so that HCl is formed (energy released). It should also be
>possible to rip molecules apart. Or rip atoms from a solid and throw
>them into a gas.
>
>Is this possible? No, it's not. The uncertainty relation forbids it.
>Because you need to exactly determine the position and speed of the
>atoms involved, which is forbidden. In fact you can't grip an atom.
>Gripping means that you must know speed and position exactly -
>forbidden.
You don't need to know the position and velocity 'exactly' to
manipulate atoms.  You merely need to confine them to small regions of
space.  I'm afraid you can't get much useful content by converting the
uncertainty relation to a verbal theorem.  You would actually have
to quantitatively analyze a proposed procedure to see if we brushed
against this limit.  That,  I agree,  is hard work!
Return to Top
Re: * 3 polarizer problem
zardoz@icanect.net
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:00:29 -0500
In article <5or3as$pj2@panix2.panix.com>, erg@panix.com (Edward Green) wrote:
>By the way,  I think you should know,  in my opinion anyway,  that 90%
>of physicists would agree with you that the 'growth industry in
>new-age claims' related in some vague way to quantum mechanics,  is
>caca.   It comes back to what I said about placing too much credence
>in popular texts.
Well I'm glad to hear that and I think you're right about it but with an
addition. From my observation, most physicists don't really think about
the philosophical consequences even though they disdain the pseudo
scientific industry. As J.C. Polkinghorne once said, "Your average quantum
mechanic is about as philosophically minded as your average garage
mechanic." Physicists aim at prediction and getting results and they're
very good at it, but most of them think in a strongly realistic way about
wave functions. The textbooks and research papers use language in just
this sort of way. This has led to speculations about observer-reality
theories. John Wheeler, for example, has had to revise this statements
about a "participatory universe" because so many new-agers have taken his
statements literally. Of course I do not pretend, in the slightest, to
make a dent in all this, but at least I can ask questions.
Zardoz
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Re: Why do you believe?
ejones@hooked.net (Earle Jones)
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:13:41 -0700
In article <33AE359E.1F6@earthlink.net>, lellington@earthlink.net wrote:
[.....]
--
I think you should brush up on your probability theory.
Shuffle a deck of cards and deal them out in front of you.  Whatever
arrangement of cards results has the *exact same probability* as the
probability of laying out Ace through King by suit.
Each arrangement of the 52 cards has the same probability of occurrence.
Nothing about any specific arrangement implies any *perfection*, including
the Ace through King by suit arrangement.
earle
--
>Imagine that a deck of 52 cards is shuffled over and over, and laid out
>after each shuffle. There are about 8.065817*10^67 possible permutaions
>of the order of cards.  Now imagine that if a certain order is attained
>(say aces through kings, by suit), the cards become self aware and begin
>to ask how it is possible that the deck was arranged just so, in such a
>seemingly grand design.  Now imagine that after an indefinite number of
>shuffles, this exact set of circumstances arises.  It seems impossible
>to these cards that random chance could have created such perfection,
>although that is exactly what happened.
>
>Our view is exactly like that of our little self-aware cards.  Just
>because we are viewing what is probably a sliver of the total history of
>the universe, and this little sliver seems divinely designed,  this is
>no reason to suppose that it _is_, infact, so designed.
>
>As a matter of fact, if there is no creator, then the universe itself is
>a nescassarily existent thing, so its non-existence would be
>inconcievable.  Given an eternal, changing universe it would be amazing
>if it never reached some combination that allowed for self-aware beings.
>
>                                                Rick
>P.S. please back up such "assertions" by "cosmologists" with
>references.  Cosmologists rarely claim to "know" about the beginnings of
>the universe.
               __
            __/\_\
           /\_\/_/   
           \/_/\_\   earle
              \/_/   jones
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Re: Stuart Kauffman's New Book
JRStern@gte.net (JRStern)
26 Jun 1997 15:28:02 GMT
>Kauffman writes:
>
>"Darwin devastated this world. .... Evolution left us stuck on the earth
>with no ladder to climb, contemplating our fate as nature's Rube
>Goldberg machines. Random variation, selection-sifting. Here is the
>core, the root. Here lies the brooding sense of accident, of historical
>contingency, of design by elimination. ... We human, a trumped-up,
>tricked-out, horn-blowing, self-important presence on the globe, need
>never have occurred. So much for our pretensions; we are lucky to have
>our hour. So much, too, for paradise." (p.7)  
A lovely statement of Victorian angst. 
J.
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Re: New theory
Ralf Kleineisel
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:15:21 +0100
JUKKA wrote:
> 
> Jukka Jarvinen, 20.06.97
> 1. Our atoms can (mostly) detect only signals
>    traveling at the speed of light (c).
> 2. Most signal sources send signals at wide
>    speed spectrum. (0.6c .. 1.4c?)
Emission and absorption are not different phenomena. They are the 
two sides of the same thing. All these processes are reversibel.
So there cannot be such a difference in 'speed sensitivity'.
In addition, if a source emitted photons in a wide range of speeds,
it would have to emit more photons than in the case of only one c
to obtain the same measured signal.
Where should the energy come from for the extra photons? It can be
measured easily that if you let an atom absorb an amount of energy
it will emit the same amount later. If your theory was true, we
could only detect a small percentage of that energy, because it
would be split up between the various speeds.
-- 
Ralf Kleineisel - Astronomisches Institut - Universitaet Wuerzburg
http://www.astro.uni-wuerzburg.de/~kleineis/homepage.html
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Re: Nanotechnology - this time I've got it!
lugmog96@student.umu.se (Ludvig Mortberg)
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:06:46 GMT
This is my view of it:
Let's say you pick up a O2 molecule on one tip of a STM and a N2
molecule on another tip, press them togheter and expect N2O2 to form,
maybee it will. But the thing is, it won't form any faster than in a
gas of the same pressure! What you really have is a gas with two
molecules. This means that nanotech can't do anything else than
ordinary chemistry can't. You're doing chemistry on a very small
scale.
This means that you can't force energetically unfavourable reactions.
Possibly you can alter pressure, illuminate with some radiation, or
even add a catalyst, but all this you could do in a bottle as well.
The STM can probably be used for some interesting chemistry, but
that's all there is to it. Of course, if you define this as
nanotechnology, nanotech is possible. But then any chemical reaction
is nanotechnology! And the term becomes meaningless.
Cheers,
Ludvig Mortberg
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Re: Permanent magnetic water softeners?
dgoncz@aol.com (DGoncz)
26 Jun 1997 15:50:35 GMT
I guess at high flows there would be an MHD (magnetohydrodynamic) effect.
Perhaps this would ionize the minerals.
Yours,
DGoncz@aol.com 
A.A.S.M.E.T. (CAD/CAM) 1990 No. Va. Comm. Coll.
Self-reproducing machine tools, other inventions, 
and the machining and assembly of experimental apparatus as
Replikon Research of Fairfax County, Virginia.
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Re: Antineutrons
lockyer@best.com (Thomas N. Lockyer)
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:42:29
In article  Anthony Potts  writes:
>From: Anthony Potts 
>Subject: Re: Antineutrons
>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:53:53 GMT
>On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Thomas N. Lockyer wrote:
>> 
>> Anthony, I have to assume that when three things always occur together, i.e. 
>> spin, rest mass and magnetic moment, that they are all intimately and 
>> inseparably connected.  That is,  spin, mass and magnetic moment cannot exist 
>But the fact is, they don't always occur together.
>That is the whole point.
Anthony, the spin of one half h bar always does.  That is my problem with the 
neutrino theory.  The fact remains that spin angular momentum stores energy 
locally, and that denotes rest mass.  We cannot repeal the laws of physics.  
My contention is that the neutrinos only spin when part of a composite 
particle.  In the final analysis, that is why theory applied a spin of one 
half to the neutrino,  the neutrino had to add it's spin to the composite , 
just to satisy the spin statistics.   After the neutrino decouples from the 
composite, it no longer needs to spin, and this is what the vector neutrino 
models indicate.   Note, these models are the first time anyone has had a 
model using  the EM structures for the electrons and neutrinos.  And the model 
goes on to make good composite models for both the proton and neutron, using 
the fact the rest mass results from the neutrinos being spun up in the 
composite assemblage.    
Regards: Tom: http://www.best.com/~lockyer 
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Re: Antineutrons
Thorsten Ohl
26 Jun 1997 20:58:51 +0200
lockyer@svpal.svpal.org (Thomas Lockyer) writes:
> Josh, it is my belief, based on the vector models that give me a sturcture
              ^^^^^^^^^
> for the neutrinos, that the neutrino does not spin.
Since this is matter of Lockyer's religious beliefs, can't we move
this thread from sci.physics* to alt.religion.lockyer or some similar
group?  Since Lockyer's model contradicts the vast majority of the
scattering data gathered in the last 50 years, it is WRONG and he
should either come up with a fixed model or shut up ...
[The psychology is eerily similar to people who `believe' that faster
than light travel must be possible because their favorite TV shows is
based on that premise ...]
-- 
/// Thorsten Ohl, TH Darmstadt, Schlossgartenstr. 9, D-64289 Darmstadt, Germany
//////////////// net: ohl@crunch.ikp.physik.th-darmstadt.de, ohl@gnu.ai.mit.edu
/// voice: +49-6151-16-3116, secretary: +49-6151-16-2072, fax: +49-6151-16-2421
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Re: Global Worries? See: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/Data/GISTEMP/
Fred McGalliard
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:07:46 GMT
Richard Foy wrote:
>"A your person who is conservative has no heart,
>an old person who is liberal has no head." This expression to me
>implies taht people tend to drift towrds conservatism as they age.
Young people generally have little in the way of possessions and think
that hard work will soon make them rich. They imagine that we can all
join togather to "do the right thing" and live better for it. They see
the conservative as just greedy. They are right, of course.
The aged often have a small hord of riches and understand just how
unlikely it is that they will, by dint of hard work, ever have noticibly
more. They have also seen at least a round dozen of great ideas crash on
the rocks because of unforseen little details and basic disagreements
that were glossed over to begin with. They have no faith in our ability
to work togather and think the liberal is out to take their small riches
and fritter it away on programs that do more harm than good. They also
are right, unfortunatly.
I wouldn't say old people drift towards conservatism, they are driven to
it as a last resort by the utter failure of the community. Logically,
the old should be our most liberal, having already obtained their
fortunes and seen how the world works. They should understand our need
for long term goals, for generosity and whisdom, and ultimatly that our
entire society can be only as pleasent as we will permit it to be.
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Re: Global Worries? See: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/Data/GISTEMP/
"David B. Green"
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:53:49 -0700
meron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
> 
> In article , rfoy@netcom.com (Richard Foy) writes:
> >In article ,   wrote:
> >>
>         ... snip ...
> 
> >>It is a well documented phenomenon that people who adopt extreme
> >>positions, if they change their mind later they tend to switch to
> >>another extreme position, not the center.  For example, a big part of
> >>the following of Le Pen (sp?) in France, an extreme right party by any
> >>definition, is made of people who were previously members of the
> >>French Communist party.  Once you apply the "cylinder" image, you
> >>realize that switching from "extreme left" to "extreme right" is
> >>immediate.
> >
> >This is an intersting look at the classifications "left" and "right."
> >
> >However, I think it needs to be even more complicated than one can
> >think about in terms of a sphere. The reason is that there are
> >different domains of "left" and "right." A person might be left,
> >right or center on the domains of economics, safety, and morality and
> >probably more. And they may or may not be correlated with each other.
> 
> Indeed.  It is really a multi dimensional map.  I do think however
> (though I have no more than anecdotal evidence for this) that paople
> who are "extreme right", not just "right" on one issue (more about
> terminology in a moment) may well be "extreme left" on another, but
> rarely "center".
> 
> The distinction I'm making between the "extreme whatever" and just
> "whatever" is as follows:  the extreme position is characterized by an
> enormous (usually absolute) certainty in one's "rightness" and in a
> total lack of tolerance for those who think otherwise.  As a result
> you get rigidity and unwillingness to accept compromise.  Those closer
> to the center  (whether to the left or to the right of it) are more
> open to the possibility that people with different opinion are not
> necesserely wrong, and therefore more ready to search for a common
> ground.  This is of course my personal classification, other may
> differ.
> >
> >When you say pretty well documented to you mean that there are
> >studies around that would give some percentage of people who switch
> >as opposed to people who drift from liberal say to conservative.
> 
> I don't know to what extent numerical studies were performed.  I'm
> rather aware of qualitative observations.  The one with Le Pen's party
> is the newest one.  Another one that I recall is from Germany.  Lots
> of the people who joined the Nazi party around 1930 switched over from
> the German communist party.  I'm talking about the time before the
> Nazis got to power, so it wasn't an issue of "siding with the winner".
> BTW, lots of ex-Nazi party members in what was East Germany joined the
> communist party after the war (but this could've been just a career
> move).
> >
> >There is a common exprsssion I believe attributed to Churchill that
> >more or less says, "A your person who is conservative has no heart,
> >an old person who is liberal has no head." This expression to me
> >implies taht people tend to drift towrds conservatism as they age.
> 
> Yeah, I think that this is well observed too.  A cynical friend of
> mine once commented that it simply has to do with how much taxes do
> you pay (on the average as you get older your income goes up and so do
> the taxes) but I'm not sure that fully explains the phenomenon.  Still
> neither liberal nor conservative has to be extreme and I don't think
> that people become more "extreme" in old age.
> 
> Mati Meron                      | "When you argue with a fool,
> meron@cars.uchicago.edu         |  chances are he is doing just the same"
As a volunteer fire chief I find that young adults with nothing are the
hardest people to get to donate their time or resources.  As they get
older and more established they tend to wish to contribute to the
community.  It seems that the busiest people find the time to be even
busier and will vote for progessive issues (new community centers, fire
engines and halls, medical clinics) and back their vote with time and
money.
They HATE to have their time wasted though.  Eco freaks, PCers, cause
junkies all seem to love wasting time.  
David		|"A person who wishes to appear learned to fools,
		| appears a fool to those who are learned."
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Re: Why do you believe? ?
"Craig L. Hodder"
26 Jun 97 13:33:15 GMT
Suzane Oliver  wrote in article
<33b1d574.2114717@newshost.capecod.net>...
> On 25 Jun 97 20:44:46 GMT, "Daniel McLean"  wrote:
> 
> >-Thanks for your statement of faith Mike.  True there has been much
crap. 
> >-And there will be more.  Yet you seem to fail to accept that the
existence
> >-or non-existence of God is beyond proof.  The infinite can neither be
> >-proven nor disproven by the finite.
> 
Actually, the infinite can be proven by the finite.  1 is finite.  Each
number in the set of integers is a finite number.  However, no matter what
number in the set of integers you choose, you can always add 1.  Thus, the
finite can prove (logically, if not practically) the infinite.
Oh yes, Suzane, the reason that the list stops (and it really didn't stop
with Thomas, as you postulate), is that the things that make up faith are
rapidly being quantified, calculated, and categoized.  I'm not a theist (by
any stretch of the imagination), but my hypothesis is this.  Many of the
things that are "proof" of a deity are acts of that deity.  Deities are
"powered" by faith, and thus as faith becomes a known quantity, the power
available is no longer sufficient to overcome doubt..  Just some
metaphysical ramblings and hypotheses.... I should expect flames for
this....  
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Re: "PC"- Obsolete??
romm@visi.com (David E Romm)
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:23:53 -0500
In article <33B30A63.8D6@public.uni-hamburg.de>, -§-
 wrote:
> Let's say we ditch the Utopias, and get back to hard, cold, clear
> REALISM. 
Define reality.  Give three examples.
---
Live and Direct from Brown Institute
I speak to Brown, I don't speak for them
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Re: The Butterfly Effect
dgree2@corp.atl.com
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:02:32 -0600
 wayne.t.hally@tek.com (Wayne T Hally) wrote:
>dgree2@corp.atl.com writes:
>>Considering the bug in the original Pentium and later the bug in the
>>Pentium II, I think you overstate your case.  But hey, that's just my
>>opinion.  And then there was the "bubble in the Hubble."  I agree that
>>the *problem* is chaotic but not because the movement of the planets is
>>chaotic.
> Dave, you really should do your homework. The motion of Pluto over
> long  periods of time is indeed chaotic, and it has nothing to do with
> the computational limitations. The rough definition of chaotic is that
> a miniscule change in initial conditions cause a major difference in
> the outcome.  In other words of youc change say the orbital speed by
> .0000000000000000000000001 mph, the outcome is completely different.
I think you are over simplifying the definition of chaos in an egregious
way.  Let's say you change the orbital speed by
 .0000000000000000000000001 mph and the outcome changes by some delta x
and delta x is kinda big. Now suppose you change the speed by
 .0000000000000000000000002 mph and the new outcome is 2*(delta x) or by
 .0000000000000000000000003 mph and you get an output difference of
3*(delta x) ... is that chaos?	Not at all. Now if your differences were
(delta x), -3*(delta x) and 7.5*(delta x) then that would be chaotic but
how likely is that to be the case with Pluto?  Big changes for small
inputs are not chaotic per se or your audio system would be pumping out a
lot more noise than signal.  I reserve the right to change my mind next
time my kid puts on a Nine Inch Nails CD, though.
> I would provide references, but this subject has been so thoroughly
> covered in scientific publications there are too many to list. I suggest
> you find a few and read them
Well, Wayne, at least if *I* read 'em I'd understand 'em ;)
Dave Greene
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet
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Re: The Butterfly Effect
kevin@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin A. Scaldeferri)
26 Jun 1997 16:52:29 GMT
In article <33b03ceb.10589973@news.emirates.net.ae>,
Martin DeMello  wrote:
>
>AFAIK, what the 'butterfly effect' is trying to exemplify is the fact
>that in *certain* types of system, the difference between
>(arbitrarily?)  close but nonidentical states increases exponentially
>with time. That is,  given two otherwise identical atmosphere states,
>in one of which a butterfly flapped it's wing, the difference might be
>amplified into, say, a tornado given sufficient evolution time.
>However, IIRC, one of the conditions necessary is feedback, or coupled
>differential equations or something of the sort.
No, this is not necessary.  As an example, a pendulum which is
periodically given a kick can be a chaotic system.
-- 
======================================================================
Kevin Scaldeferri			Calif. Institute of Technology
"Pragmatism! Is that all you have to offer?"
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Re: The Butterfly Effect
Daniel Bushman
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:32:19 -0700
> grossep wrote:
> >
> > dgree2@corp.atl.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Considering the bug in the original Pentium and later the bug in the
> > > Pentium II, I think you overstate your case.  But hey, that's just my
> > > opinion.  And then there was the "bubble in the Hubble."  I agree that
> > > the *problem* is chaotic but not because the movement of the planets is
> > > chaotic.
> >
> > "Chaotic" and "random" are two completely different things.  The motion
> > of the planets is well-defined, but chaotic:
> >
> > Definition of chaotic system - one in which a small change in initial
> > conditions results in a large change in final conditions.  Moving a
> > planet even a little bit could drastically alter the solar system, given
> > enough time.  Ergo, the motion of the planets is chaotic.
> >
> >         -Josh G
if sensitive dependence on initial conditions is the definition of a
chaotic system, then existence itself is a chaotic system... just
because a buterfly can effect the price of rice in china, doesn't define
butterflies as a chaotic system... of course changing the planets just a
little would change things a lot... but so would anything... whether i
send this post or not changes the initial conditions of the course of
history to come... 
given your definition, any system would fit the description of
chaotic... 
some definitions of chaotic systems:
Philip Holes: certian dynamical systems with complicated, aperiodic,
attracting orbits
Hoa Bai-Lin: systems that show a kind of order without periodicity
H. Bruce Stuart: a simple deterministic (clockwork-like) system with
apperantly random recurrant behavior.
sensitive dependance on initial conditions is definitly an attribute of
chaotic systems... but certainly not the definition of them...
i would like to know if i am wrong...
-- 
dan
daniel bushman
mailto:danielb@thedeep.com
-----------------------------------------------------
the deep                         free web graphics
http://www.thedeep.com/          
-----------------------------------------------------
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Re: The Butterfly Effect
kevin@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin A. Scaldeferri)
26 Jun 1997 21:20:07 GMT
In article <867354903.6121@dejanews.com>,   wrote:
>
>I think you are over simplifying the definition of chaos in an egregious
>way.  Let's say you change the orbital speed by
> .0000000000000000000000001 mph and the outcome changes by some delta x
>and delta x is kinda big. Now suppose you change the speed by
> .0000000000000000000000002 mph and the new outcome is 2*(delta x) or by
> .0000000000000000000000003 mph and you get an output difference of
>3*(delta x) ... is that chaos?	Not at all. Now if your differences were
>(delta x), -3*(delta x) and 7.5*(delta x) then that would be chaotic 
Up to here, you're doing good.
>but how likely is that to be the case with Pluto?
It is almost certainly the case with Pluto (and every other planet,
although it is,no doubt, more pronounced for some than others).  Let
me repeat: n-body gravitational systems are chaotic for n > 2.
-- 
======================================================================
Kevin Scaldeferri			Calif. Institute of Technology
"Pragmatism! Is that all you have to offer?"
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