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Jim Rogers <"jfr"@fc[RemoveThis/NoJunkMail].hp.com> wrote in article
<5ablig$4km@fcnews.fc.hp.com>...
> Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz wrote:
> ...
> > 36 children have been killed by automotive airbags - protected to
death.
> > To the best of my knowledge, the total number of deaths attributable to
> > marijuana use over the past 35 years is *zero*.  A gram is better than
a
> >  damn.
> 
> Well let's be a bit more forthright, here. I don't know what the stats
> are, but there have been instances of avoidable nasty trainwrecks and
> such in which the responsible party was smoking dope. Do you attribute
> such tragedies to marijuana? Pot is dangerous mostly in its capacity to
> reduce a person's concern and attentiveness about things they really
> ought to be attentive to; it can impair judgement. There are lots of
> situations where that's totally harmless, but in the wrong situation it
> can be tragic. 
> 
> But a lot of medically-precribed drugs are like that; there's no reason
> pot shouldn't be listed in every doctor's pharmacopoeia, and studied
> just like every other drug. 
> 
> Jim
That's true, and I'm sure some deaths have resulted. I would still rather
deal with someone using marijuana than alcohol. Scare the metabolic residue
out of a drunk and they tend to still be drunk and inattentive. That's not
been my experience with pot heads. If you get a second chance you are more
likely to survive with pot. 
Dunk a drunk and he's liable to inhale enough water to kill him, no gag
reflex. About half of all adult drownings are alcohol related.  I'd put the
number higher based on my personal experience.

bsandle@southern.co.nz (Brian Sandle) writes:
> welshwytch (violette@vasilisa.com) wrote:
> : Brian Sandle wrote:
> : > 
> : > Patricia Schwarz (violette@vasilisa.com) wrote:
> : > : The cannabinoid system also effects centers of the brain controlling
> : > : fear, panic, muscle spasms
> : > 
> : > And possibly reduce breathing response in muscles.
> : > 
> : >  and nausea, in addition to being
> : > : found in the hippocampus, where the infamous "short term memory
> : > : interference" effect of marijuana no doubt takes place.
> : > 
> : > The hippocampus is particularly susceptible to hypoxia since the blood
> : > vessels in it are blind alleys. I speculate that if it becomes broken
> : > then the personality can be divided into the smaller areas.
> : 
> : Then cannabinoids are undoubtedly good for the hippocampus,
> : check out the research on the syntehtic cannabinoid HU211
> : which as a brain anti-inflammatory reduces neural damage from
> : hypoxia by up to 50%
> 
> No, no, for someone whose breathing has been reduced it is no good to 
> tell them that they will only suffer half the damage.
> 
> `After this Violette you are only going to be two personalites, not in 
> fact three, because of the kind nature of the drug'
> 
> : 
> : 
> : > : that is in fact what happens to people with PTSD, many also
> : > : have accompanying physics problems of that nature.
> : > 
> : > Not sure what you mean by physics problems. 
> : 
> : I meant physical problems but I was not trained as a typist.
> : 
> : >How do you know it is not
> : > working like electroshock treatment, reducing blood flow to the areas
> : > which have been overactive producing the depression. 
> : 
> : It is called "research", try checking Medline under "cannabinoid"
> 
> Perhaps you could be a little more explanatory. There will be many entries.
> 
> You are probably telling me no more than once drugs have damaged a brain 
> through hypoxia then they may have to continue to be taken.
> 
> 
> : > 
> : -- 
> : Naked is a state of mind
> : 		Luscious Jackson
> 
> Is it under control?
> 
> Brian Sandle
---------------------------------------------------------
I inhalded, still like the taste, just a cig. smoker know, 
but still like pipes.
Make a BON fire (sit around and play).
remember to write 97 instead of 96
Laymen Bill

In article <5ablig$4km@fcnews.fc.hp.com>,
Jim Rogers  <"jfr"@fc[RemoveThis/NoJunkMail].hp.com> wrote:
>Alan "Uncle Al" Schwartz wrote:
...
>> 36 children have been killed by automotive airbags - protected to death.
>> To the best of my knowledge, the total number of deaths attributable to
>> marijuana use over the past 35 years is *zero*.  A gram is better than a
>>  damn.
>Well let's be a bit more forthright, here. I don't know what the stats
>are, but there have been instances of avoidable nasty trainwrecks and
>such in which the responsible party was smoking dope. Do you attribute
>such tragedies to marijuana?
Who knows?  Without studying it, it is hard to say.
A far more dangerous suspect is boredom, not directly but its hypnotic
effect.  Paradoxically, the more safety features are put in, the less
likely it is that a human being in charge can spot a serious rare event.
There is an optimal rate of surprise events to be treated.
Pot is dangerous mostly in its capacity to
>reduce a person's concern and attentiveness about things they really
>ought to be attentive to; it can impair judgement. There are lots of
>situations where that's totally harmless, but in the wrong situation it
>can be tragic. 
And we are far less than intelligent if we put it into a single number
like the current blood alcohol level.  Those studies were done too long
ago, anyhow.  BTW, cigarette smoking is a possible hazard, partly because
of the carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide levels.  This can happen in
driving even without drugs.
>But a lot of medically-precribed drugs are like that; there's no reason
>pot shouldn't be listed in every doctor's pharmacopoeia, and studied
>just like every other drug. 
And people's reactions are different.  I get no sedative reaction from
the common antihistamines and related cmopounds, while others can be
almost knocked out.
-- 
This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (317)494-6054   FAX: (317)494-0558

W B Jones  writes:
> bsandle@southern.co.nz (Brian Sandle) writes:
> > welshwytch (violette@vasilisa.com) wrote:
> > : Brian Sandle wrote:
> > : > 
> > : > Patricia Schwarz (violette@vasilisa.com) wrote:
> > : > : The cannabinoid system also effects centers of the brain controlling
> > : > : fear, panic, muscle spasms
> > : > 
> > : > And possibly reduce breathing response in muscles.
> > : > 
> > : >  and nausea, in addition to being
> > : > : found in the hippocampus, where the infamous "short term memory
> > : > : interference" effect of marijuana no doubt takes place.
> > : > 
> > : > The hippocampus is particularly susceptible to hypoxia since the blood
> > : > vessels in it are blind alleys. I speculate that if it becomes broken
> > : > then the personality can be divided into the smaller areas.
> > : 
> > : Then cannabinoids are undoubtedly good for the hippocampus,
> > : check out the research on the syntehtic cannabinoid HU211
> > : which as a brain anti-inflammatory reduces neural damage from
> > : hypoxia by up to 50%
> > 
> > No, no, for someone whose breathing has been reduced it is no good to 
> > tell them that they will only suffer half the damage.
> > 
> > `After this Violette you are only going to be two personalites, not in 
> > fact three, because of the kind nature of the drug'
> > 
> > : 
> > : 
> > : > : that is in fact what happens to people with PTSD, many also
> > : > : have accompanying physics problems of that nature.
> > : > 
> > : > Not sure what you mean by physics problems. 
> > : 
> > : I meant physical problems but I was not trained as a typist.
> > : 
> > : >How do you know it is not
> > : > working like electroshock treatment, reducing blood flow to the areas
> > : > which have been overactive producing the depression. 
> > : 
> > : It is called "research", try checking Medline under "cannabinoid"
> > 
> > Perhaps you could be a little more explanatory. There will be many entries.
> > 
> > You are probably telling me no more than once drugs have damaged a brain 
> > through hypoxia then they may have to continue to be taken.
> > 
> > 
> > : > 
> > : -- 
> > : Naked is a state of mind
> > : 		Luscious Jackson
> > 
> > Is it under control?
> > 
> > Brian Sandle
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> I inhalded, still like the taste, just a cig. smoker now, 
> but still like pipes.
> Make a BON fire (sit around and play).
> remember to write 97 instead of 96
> Laymen Bill
-------------------------spell check

In article <32C91A5D.411F@vasilisa.com>,
Patricia Schwarz   wrote:
>Folks, the constitutional questions are there yes but notice
>I did not post to alt.politics.libertarian.
>My hope was to get peoples dander up about specifically what
>Clinton is doing to access to research.
>The federal government's position is that marijuana is medically
>useless. They are supporting that position by actively preventing
>any research to be done that could contradict their assertion.
>BUT hey I can understand if everyone's first priority is
>to protect their grant money. Because if scientists started
>speaking out in this case, the Clinton admin would probably
>respond with very serious threats as they are doing with doctors.
We have been there.  The objections of scientists to the Vietnam War
cut their funding then.  Also, the studnet objections to this cut
state support for teaching in most states.  The power of the purse
is quite strong.
Only a few years ago, and I believe this happened both in the Bush
and Clinton administrations, the research bureaucrats wanted to cut
funding for pure research, and channel it into applications for 
direct use by industry, etc.  Most medical "research" is now of
this type, and I believe that this is non-productive over a 10-year
period.  Most of the "captains of industry" objected; Congress was
ready to vote this in.
Before WWII, we had a world-class research operation, run with little
federal money.  It was funded by universities, who competed in research
support for scholars, industry, private foundations, and the perceived
need for scholars.  During WWII, the military found that these guys were
good to have around, and afterward started supporting basic research.  But
Congress did not like this being done by the military, and in fact funded
it so much that it was hard for the supply to meet the demand.
Now the universities, freed of the need to support scientific research,
dropped most of this.  Foundations were restricted by the government to
preven "tax avoidance" (this is perfectly legal; you just use your money
in ways that it is taxed less), in fact preventing them from getting into
the support of research on a comparable basis to the past.  Medicine is
probably the least federally supported research field.
The government would not be able to cut research funding just to those
who spoke up, but they could cut the whole works.
-- 
This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu         Phone: (317)494-6054   FAX: (317)494-0558

Call for papers
A new completely on-line journal of science has 
been launched. The Internet Journal of Science - 
biological chemistry can be found at http://www.netsci-journal.com/  
There will be 2 sections to each issue.
The Journal
This will contain peer reviewed articles,
Regular papers.
Communications.
Reviews, both invited and contributed 
The Magazine
This will contain more topical issues,
News and views, comments on current trends
Educational articles such as practical experiments, teaching articles, 
computer applications
Software reviews and commercial announcements
Student section - this will give both post and under-graduate students 
the opportunity to write papers
The journal will host Electronic conferences on its Web 
Site. 
Sincerely,
The editor, Dr. Paul F.Heelis, North East Wales Institute, UK 
p.s. My apologises if you receive this message more than once.
Dr. Paul F Heelis
Editor, Internet Journal of Science,
Faculty of Science and Technology
North East Wales Institute, PP19
Mold Rd
Wrexham
LL11 2AW
UK
Tel +44 1978 293004
Fax +44 1978 290008 
e-mail editor@netsci.u-net.com

Herman Rubin wrote:
> 
> 
> Before WWII, we had a world-class research operation, run with little
> federal money.  It was funded by universities, who competed in research
> support for scholars, industry, private foundations, and the perceived
> need for scholars. 
Having lived through most of this period professionally and being aware
of the history in earlier decades, I think what you say is a profound
misreading of history, particularly disturbing from someone with a
background in mathematics.   Up until Sputnik, there was no great
support, even from the miltary, for basic research in the areas I am
familiar with.   Afterwards there was a large infusion of funds, mainly
from the NSF, and that led to a great expansion of basic research in
these areas.   When I entered graduate school in 1955, NSF predoctoral
fellowships were just beginning.    The prospects of ending up with a
job where one could do research in mathematics were not too great, even
for Harvard Ph. D.s.   But in a few years this all changed.   NSF
support was not the only factor of course.   There was a great expansion
of our public university system, particularly in California, and these
schools vied with existing institutitions for scholars.  This created a
large active group of scholars in mathematics and as a result the amount
and quality of mathematics has improved considerably vis a vis the prior
period.   Starting perhaps in the 70s and certainly in the 80s, fiscal
constraints cut back significantly on such support.   Right now the
situation in mathematics for young research mathematicians, except for
those who are either lucky or at the very top, is deplorable.
You may be content to go back to the days of teaching 5 courses per
semester, which was typical in mathematics in the golden age you
describe.   But I doubt that this will result in `world class' science
or mathematics.
-- 
Leonard Evens       len@math.nwu.edu      491-5537
Department of Mathematics, Norwthwestern University
Evanston Illinois

Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Paul Ennin M.D. wrote:
> >
> > Hello all I am a new suscriber to your news group.  I am a new engineer
> > and I am looking for a job.
> > Can anyone help.
> > In NY area especially!!!
> 
> I do not know about the New York area, but in the St. Louis area there
> are no entry level positions 
On the other hand, I posted a job opening and got zero responses.  Here
it is again:
Job Opening:  Chemist, BS 3-5 yrs, to do process development in small
chemical company in central PA.  Email resume for more details.
I realize the thread may not have been about a chemist job.  I'd really
like to hear from anyone interested.
-- 
"GOPHER IT!!!"
Bob Burns
rburns@bigfoot.com
Mill Hall, PA USA

We still have 250 Medical Oxygen Regulators - Victor Medical Products
model 0799-1367, some with E cylinder yokes.   All with high pressure
gauge.  Come see our list of bargain equipment at
http://www.erols.com/mlesh/surplus.html

Glenn W. Bernasek wrote:
> 
> 1.  Has anybody remembered, or bothered to read, the ORIGINAL posting
> on this thread???  (Industrial accident resulting from not following
> established Lock out / Tag out procedures resulted in death of eight
> workers.)
> 
> 2.  Even theoretical science experiments should be conducted with
> observation of any and all historical hazard data in mind.  This
> may not provide a 100% safe operating environment, but it should
> reduce the possibilities of unfortunate mishaps considerably.
> 
> 3.  The most forgiving person in the lab is the one who is doing
> the experiment.  (Quite often they are the most often dead.)
> The pursuit of scientific knowledge should not provide the excuse
> to replace what should be done with what is wanted to be done.
> Dupont had an excellent safety slogan, "What would happen if?"  This
> slogan was coined to remind people to THINK IT OUT FIRST!
> 
> 'Accidents (safety violations) can never be excused or rationalized
> away.'  If there is a safety precedent, regulation or procedure ...
> FOLLOW IT!   If this is absolutely virgin territory, proceed with
> the greatest caution and minimize mishaps as much as possible.
> 
> Accidents do not 'come with the territory'.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.  (I work in advanced research technology,
> I follow the rules and I'm still in one piece.)
> 
> Glenn
> 
> ####################################################
> # No one is responsible for anything I say but me. #
> #   (And sometimes I have doubts about myself.)    #
> ####################################################You seem to beleive the press, that this accident was caused by opening
a vessel that contained 5000 psig nitrogen. This "nitrogen" was 
pressurizing hydraulic oil. Have you concidered the peroxides that could 
have been formed with the small amount of oxygen contained in the 
commercial nitrogen?
Regards Charlie Sloan
-- 
MZ

"Patricia M. Schwarz"  wrote:
>If you care about science and decision-making based on
>research, here is another chapter in the continuing outrageous
>story of medical marijuana. 
   *snip*
Of course we could be missing the most important point here.
MJ will grow just about everywhere, probably even in the stomachs of
randy whales. The other drugs do not, and have to be purchased, using
real money, to provide some return on investment to the drug companies
who, like the stock market investors, and politicians, would prefer to
see the economy "growing", thus providing capitalism with a reason for
existence. And after all, if the economy is "growing", irrespective of
whether anyone is getting any real benefit out of that growth, that
can't be a bad thing. 
Can it?
Then of course there are the boffins that have to analyze a thing to
death. Never mind whether it works, if it ain't 99-44/100 % "pure" it
ain't worth having.
BTW, since this is sci.research, as an interesting sidelight to that
last point, is the trend in resistance to antibiotics due in part to
the fact that antibiotics are 100 % pure, i.e., their molecular
structure is uniform over the entire sample, thus allow the little
devils an easy out, i.e., any change would be of benefit, whereas if
the drugs were not so uniform in molecular structure they would
surround the little beggars, leave them no way out, and kill the lot.
Just  a thought.
George
replies direct or to sci.research

msimon@rworld.com (M Simon) wrote:
>As the world grows more electronic/technological every day the
>long term need for engineers will grow.
Actually, in my studies of various labour markets I have found that
there is, in relative terms, very little growth.
>If you have exceptional abilities and intense desire stay in the
>field no matter how hard now. You will be rewarded.
Rubbish. You will probably be used when people realize that you will
work hard, see below.
>May I suggest temp agencies/contracting. You will gain a breadth
>of experience unavailable at any one job. This will make you
>more valuable in the long run.
Well, that's certainly true, and good advice.
>If you can't get jobs with your current level of expertise you
>can always bid low enough as a contractor to win an assignment.
You can always do it for free too. Don't laugh, I have seen this done.
Mind you, it doesn't pay the rent.
Suggestion, you have to be smarter than the average bear. Use your
marketing skills. Sad but true that even in science and engineering
marketing at the employment level is important. As an interesting
point, when does bowing and scraping, and being politically correct,
start corrupting the scientific principles that you have been taught.
George
>Good luck.
Agreed