Newsgroup sci.energy.hydrogen 4624

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Evert ROSSEEL wrote:
> 
> Apart from installing as gaseous fuel supply system there should be no
> changes whatsoever.
> The only problems I can imagine with the engine should be related to
> preignition instead of knock : with hydrogen a single hot point is
> enough to ignite the mixture (hydrogen has a much lower minimal
> ignition energy then gasoline or other classic fuels). This can also
> lead to backfire very easily, but this is completely unrelated to
> knock..
Please pardon my ignorance, but is there a brief explanation of why
preignition is completely unrelated to knock as far as the measurment
principal of a knock meter?
-- 
				Sincerely,
				Chad Nelson
				Advanced Fuel Research, Inc.
				87 Church Street
				East Hartford, CT  06108-3742
"The views expressed above are those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect the views of Advanced Fuel Research, Inc. or any
affiliates."

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>What has to be done to convert IC Engine to run on Hydrogen?
>I would like to tinker.  I have an old car engine and a few lawn mower
>engines to experiment with.  I have unlimited H2 supply, but what kinds
>of flows and pressures do I need for input?  Who has these cars
>running already?  More info/help is needed to get started...
>Thanks in advance.  smensch@mail.sunlink.net
You've piqued my curiosity...how does one obtain an "unlimited supply
of hydrogen"??  ;-)
Tom Brannan

Thomas Lewis wrote:
> 
> 
> I just read that Mercedes just released a fuel cell powered car
> prototype and there is a company in Vancouver using the same technology
> foe buses. Are these vehicles using a pure fuel source with only a water
> by-product? Also, not to stray too far, but if anyone can give me
> anymore specifics about the effectivness and drawbacks of this
> technology for vehicles, I would love to hear it. I'm really interested
> in mileage expectations, hydrogen oxygen costs, etc…
> C. Thomas Lewis
> ctlewis@concentric.net
I have seen the Ballard bus & they are collabarating with Mercedes on
the car.  The bus has about 20 high pressure hydrogen tanks, mostly on
the roof.  The fuel cell plant is about 4 cubic meters and runs at a
fairly low temperature -- 150C as I recall.  The range of the bus is
about 100 miles & it can go 50 mph.  Cost and safety are the issues
here.  I would be worried about the possibility of explosion in a
wreck.  The Ballard people say it is safe.  Welding grade hydrogen costs
~ $12 a bottle.  If it took 20 of them to go 100 miles the bus is
clearly too expensive for the marketplace.
Paul Sims

There is nothing naive about it.  You can burn hydrogen in a standard
automobile engine.  You just have to remove the carburator and install an
aspirator.  The engine will then run on hydrogen, natural gas, propane,
methane, etc.  The engine really doesn't care as long as the mixture is
correct.  The hard part is storing enough fuel to be useful.  Two methods
are used for natural gas, liquified natural gas and high pressure tanks. 
With hydrogen, either of these could also be used, however liquid hydrogen
requires an awful lot of work to get it cold enough.  Therefore the more
practical method of storage would be high pressure (potentially
dangerous).  There are also chemical methods of storage which are safer,
but bulkier.
Mercedes is developing a fuel cell that combines hydrogen and oxygen
(without combustion) to produce water vapor and electricity.  This
electricity powers the electric motor(s).