Newsgroup sci.engr.surveying 3614

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arun gera wrote:
> 
> I am trying to understand the relative strengths of GPS and optical
> surveying equipment? Is GPS taking the market away from traditional
> surveying equipment? Do all surveyors use GPS (what percent do)? AT what
> price point and performance levels will GPS overtake the optical
> surveying market?
Dear Arun:
An excellent comment on the subject of measuring tools and the
professional nature of surveying may be found in the Guest Editorial in
the November/December 1996 issue of Professional Surveyor, by Dr. Ben
Buckner, LS, PE.
Tony
-- 
J. Anthony Cavell, PLS            _______              ______
Vice President                   /_____ /   / @ \     /____ /
Navigation Electronics, Inc.    /_____ /===(@ % @)===/____ /
200 Toledo Drive               /______/     \ @ /   /_____/
Lafayette, LA 70506                    "G P S m a n"

We offer an add-on for The Geographic Calculator by Blue Marble to allow
it to do batch projection conversions of DXF files.
$25 + $5 s&h;
Sierra Hermitage - AutoCad automation products

J. Anthony Cavell, PLS wrote:
> 
> arun gera wrote:
> >
> > I am trying to understand the relative strengths of GPS and optical
> > surveying equipment? Is GPS taking the market away from traditional
> > surveying equipment? Do all surveyors use GPS (what percent do)? AT what
> > price point and performance levels will GPS overtake the optical
> > surveying market?
> Dear Arun:
> 
> An excellent comment on the subject of measuring tools and the
> professional nature of surveying may be found in the Guest Editorial in
> the November/December 1996 issue of Professional Surveyor, by Dr. Ben
> Buckner, LS, PE.
> 
> Tony
> --
> J. Anthony Cavell, PLS            _______              ______
> Vice President                   /_____ /   / @ \     /____ /
> Navigation Electronics, Inc.    /_____ /===(@ % @)===/____ /
> 200 Toledo Drive               /______/     \ @ /   /_____/
> Lafayette, LA 70506                    "G P S m a n"
Re: GPS vs Traditional Surveys ("J. Anthony Cavell, PLS" , 22:13)
To: 
    jmurphy2@mindspring.com
Jim Murphy wrote:
 . . .
> 
> If you re-read the article, you may glean the holier-than-thou
> attitude exhibited by Mr. Buckner.  I really wonder if the good
> Dr. has studied the schematic diagrams of his TV and Stereo
> before enjoying the entertainment provided;  if he has a
> completely thorough understanding of the engine control computer
> in his automobile and how it adjusts the mixture and timing;  if
> he is adept at writing assembler code so that he may understand
> how his word processor can change lower case to upper case at the
> click of a button. and the "ifs" go on and on.
> 
> There's a whole buncha dumb surveyors in this great land that
> know nothing about statistics or Keplerian elements, but they
> find corners I can't.
> 
> I thought he was a snot and thought about e-mailing a private
> e-mail to PS.
> 
> Of course, you may be a GPS jockey and not a muddy booter.  I
> don't know.
> 
> Jim Murphy
Dear Jim:
Gee, Jim, sounds like a nerve was hit. Sorry if it was me!
I think the professor is speaking like a "professor". To some
that may sound "snotty" but give him the benefit of the doubt
and consider more closely what he says. After all, our claim
(I presume you are licensed) is to be professional. This doesn't 
mean, as some think, we get paid. It means we know enough about
what we do to PROFESS! If we don't, we aren't!
But first, let's address what you have to say. The workings of
a television set or stereo or automobile computer have little
to do with the enjoyment of those devices. (Although such knowlede
may increase one's enjoyment.) If, however one claims to be 
professional in one of those fields, he damned well ought to 
know and understand their inner workings!
When you say dumb surveyors who don't know statistics etc. find
corners, you make two errors. 1) If they are dumb, they don't find 
(proper) corners. 2) Your paragraph agrees with Dr. Buckner's point; 
i.e., the primary job is to find the boundary, not to measure the 
dimensions.
As formyself, you are right on both counts! I AM a GPS jockey AND
I AM a muddy booter. I am also a teacher, a salesman, a technician 
and an old salty offshore surveyor too.
This can be a very good thread, I think. These are issues we need to 
deal with and the internet is the ideal forum in many ways. I hope 
you don't mind my posting this reply in the news group.
Best wshes,
-- 
J. Anthony Cavell, PLS            _______              ______
Vice President                   /_____ /   / @ \     /____ /
Navigation Electronics, Inc.    /_____ /===(@ % @)===/____ /
200 Toledo Drive               /______/     \ @ /   /_____/
Lafayette, LA 70506                    "G P S m a n"

> 
> I think the professor is speaking like a "professor". To some
> that may sound "snotty" but give him the benefit of the doubt
> and consider more closely what he says. After all, our claim
> (I presume you are licensed) is to be professional. This doesn't 
> mean, as some think, we get paid. It means we know enough about
> what we do to PROFESS! If we don't, we aren't!
> 
I don't recall seeing Dr. Buckner's article (but I usually read his work, so 
maybe I'm just getting more addled the more courtrooms I end up in) but the 
point that a surveyor needs to know the theory behind his measurment methods, 
and the weaknesses they exhibit, is absolutely correct.  I am firmly on the 
side of those who feel that evidence evaluation, research, and finding the 
corner in the mud, road bed, or blackberry patch is essential-- but so is 
understanding measurements.  I have been involved in court cases over 
significant figures in surveys (did the surveyor's traverse support the area he 
reported?) and I suspect there will be more of those.  If you are going to do 
your client any good, you have to be able to explain yourself as an expert in 
court-- and to do that you need to know how to explain, in plain English (or 
whatever language you use) how you can be sure your measurements are right.  
That's the main reason why I don't yet use GPS; I don't feel comfortable that I 
understand the theory (but I'm working on it). GPS is a seductively scary tool! 
Of course, I don't understand the physics behind my EDM, either-- but at least 
I know how to calibrate it and how to internally check and analyze my surveys 
when I use it. I also have practiced explaining it to non surveyors. When I get 
to the same point with GPS (and maybe move where there ain't so many trees) 
I'll try it out.  And yes, I do all my own field work.
Jerry Broadus

"kdgmh"  wrote:
>Is there any shareware or freeware out there to automatically (90%) write
>legal descriptions by picking the appropriate entities in Autocad? 
>Preferably the routine will write the data to a text file.  Any help is
>greatly appreciated. Thanks. (hchase@i1.net)
eagle point will.
Steve

Software name: K-Block  (for adjusting huge photogrammetric blocks
using  a unique  Least Squares approach)  
Used by: Federal Government of Canada and Mapping companies.
Main Features:
     a) Adjusts very large Blocks in seconds (using a PC). The
average adjustment time  for a block 1000 models is less than 5
seconds).
     b) Automatically optimizes the Bandwidth. Ideal for blocks with
cross flight lines..
     c)  The program adjusts blocks using bundles or Models (using
both 4/3 or 7 parameter.)
     d)  Adjusts huge blocks using either New Graphical approach   or
Text screens. 
     e) Is  modular
     f)  Is paperless. 
     g) Is written in C and assembler.
A demo version is available from CYTEK, 7 Jeremiah Place, Nepean, ON ,
Canada K2H 8L7     Fax: 1-613-829-7190 

Thanks for the responses guys! 
This instrument (Leica TC600) does have dual axis compensators and I do
keep the two collimation errors adjusted. Also it has a SD of 5". It is
best suited for topographic pickup which is what I do mostly. I will
continue with the standard procedure of turning the angles on the 2 faces
on traverse as it is also a good check on my booking. Until I rely entirely
on electronic data collection I will play it safe (unless I want to risk
having to return to occupy that point).
(I used the word 'circuitry' with hesitation for lack of a better word at
the time.)