Newsgroup sci.geo.meteorology 28283

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Edward Farrar  wrote:
>On the Purdue University surface weather chart there is a crossed arrow 
>symbol - what weather does this signify.
	The synoptic codes used internationally to report various types of
weather contain several code posibilities to report  categories of
drifting and blowing snow.  There are corresponding weather map
plotting symbols, variations of the crossed arrows,  for the codes.  I
suspect  that Purdue is using one of the symbols in a generic sense to
represent simply blowing snow.
--
Al Campbell
Brampton, Ontario

I have the highest respect for Chuck, and hope each of you feel the
outrage and make your opinions known on this thread.
Does this mean my employer should not let me use this system to express
my opinion??? What happened to the first Amendment? What happened to
free
speech? and last but not least, while I can understand the
"reasonableness" that appears on the surface of this memo, I happen to
think the weather is a declassified, and general topic, to which the NWS
through its new modernization plan say that they are trying to be more
open and want good public relations with the met community general. Yet
they are pulling the plug - to me this is Degradation of Services, by
limiting access to NWS personnel on an open door policy. Like the
Radiosonde issue, again Degradation of Services, which to me means the
NWS is violating Public Law, and the Attorney General should be
investigating this breach of conduct.
I love the little saying I always hear from the NWS: "The NWS has
nothing to hide". Ya and I have sucker tatooed on my forehead.
Just as I figured - the NWS will no longer exist in the next few years
as they will be forced to privitize and then it really gets sticky for
all of us in the met community, so who will be in control then WSI,
Kavouras, Contel, Accu-Weather or others????.
Okay - I may be I'm being a little strong armed here, but I'm trying to
make a point. The NWS already had Compuserve pull our company page at
one point and a core little group in the NWS is out to control all of us
and how we approach the weather and our science. The NWS's little
control squad (the grey men) wishes to control the Internet, how
interesting! So an NWS person posts something via their private account
and get the plug pulled like happened to us - and we aren't even NWS -
Interesting!
Now we see the silencing of the NWS internal end of things, and then
they move on to silience NWS personnel personal accounts by threatening
the ISP, and the ISP not wanting trouble shuts the account down.
Just my personal opinions! and yes, I used our companies system to post
this! Haven't gotten a memo forbidding my use of the Internet YET!! John 
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Pirmin:
I like the explanation in the lasers.html much better than in
el-nino-story.html.  It addresses my questions.
Thanks,
Gerard
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:30:38 -0700 
Pirmin Kaufmann said:
> Gerard J. Gonthier wrote:
> > 
> > I am enjoying browsing NOAA's El Nino page.
> > But I am bothered by statements in their
> > "What is an El Nino" page:
> > 
> >    "El Nino is a disruption of the ocean-atmosphere
> >     system in the tropical Pacific having important
> >     consequences for weather around the globe."
> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> >    "During El Nino (bottom panel of the schematic
> >     diagram), the trade winds relax in the central
> >                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >     and western Pacific leading to a depression of
> >                         ^^^^^^^
> >     the thermocline in the eastern Pacific, and an
> >     elevation of the thermocline in the west."
> > 
> >    "The result was a rise in sea surface
> >     temperature...[in the western Pacific..]"
> > 
> >    "The eastward displacement of the atmospheric
> >     heat source overlaying the warmest water results
> >     in large changes in the global atmospheric
> >                             
> >     circulation, which in turn force changes in
> >     ^
> >     weather in regions far removed from the tropical
> >     Pacific."
> > 
> > The cause and effect is not sorted out here.  Global
> > atmospheric changes CAUSE the trade winds to relax
> > THEN CAUSING the El Nino.  The "far removed" changes
> > in weather are caused by the same global atmospheric
> > circulation change that causes the El Nino.
>  
> That's not the whole truth either, because
> it's a two way relationship between ENSO and global
> atmospheric changes. The effects of El Nino on the global
> weather are quite well known, whereas it is not very
> clear what actually triggers an El Nino. The web page at
> http://www.ncar.ucar.edu/archives/asr/ASR94/EDUC/lasers.html
> has a somewhat more detailed description of ENSO.
> 
> The effects of a global CLIMATE change on El Nino is another 
> story.
> 
> Pirmin
> 
> > To round out my comments, El Nino DOES cause regional
> > weather changes.
> > 
> > I still think the page is cool, though.
> > 
> > Quotes from:
> > http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/toga-tao/el-nino-story.html

Ed Bachmann wrote:
> 
> Can anyone give me the location of an
> online dry bulb-wet bulb temperature
> relative humidity table?
>
Ed,
 Didn't have a lot of time to trace it all down, but
 you might nose around the following link:
         http://www.nws.mbay.net
 It is a link to the National Weather Service in Monterey Bay
 California.  They have a link to another service that
 has an Atmosphere Calculator which can compute what you
 are looking for (I believe).  If you want to go direct,
 they are at: 
    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/methowto.html#calcrh
 Hope this helps.
 ---Tom Turton

In article <328B6E75.5371@wxscratch.com>, metservices@wxscratch.com wrote:
+ Does this mean my employer should not let me use this system to express
+ my opinion???
Maybe...maybe not.
+ What happened to the first Amendment? What happened to free speech?
Oh, it's still there. You have the right to say [within certain 
restrictions] what you like, mostly when you like, and mostly where
you like.
But that doesn't give you the right to do it on _company_ time. You
see, it's not _terribly_ unreasonable for someone to mistake your
statements for OFFICAL announcements from your company.
That said, tho, the current policy *does* cut back on professional 
interaction.
+ I love the little saying I always hear from the NWS: "The NWS has
+ nothing to hide". Ya and I have sucker tatooed on my forehead.
You bet. You shouldn't be in such a rush to blame the policy on malice
when stupid...err...Dilbertism, just as easily explains things...
[mass deletia]
James
-- 
Consulting Minster for Consultants, DNRC
To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at:

Robert Evans wrote:
> 
> Andy & Sophie Smout wrote:
> >
> > Greetings!
> >
> > I am interested in any information on the predicted change in sea-level as
> > a consequence of global warming. Does anyone know what the current climatic
> > models say? I think I have heard numbers up to 10 metres quoted, but don't
> > know the source of this information and whether it is in any sense recent
> > or reliable. Also, I would be interested to know wheter any rise in sea
> > level would be the same over the whole surface of the earth, or would be
> > greater near the equator.
> >
> > Does anyone know the current state of the art? Specifically, I would like
> > to move to the seaside in Scotland, but don't want to buy a house that will
> > be underwater after 25 years or so... :-)
> >
> > Andy Smout
> 
> Andy & Sophie,
> 
> The state of the models is not very good. The modelers will tell you that.
> If you move to the seaside, just make sure you are at a proper elevation
> and distance from the shore to avoid storm surge from any major storm.
> 
> Maybe in 10-20 years the models will have most of the physics in them and
> the computers will be powerful enough to model the atmosphere. IMHO, we are
> not there yet.
> 
> Bob Evans
> 
> --
> ______________________________________
> 
> all opinions expressed are mine and
> mine alone.
> 
> ______________________________________
Might I beg to differ with you.  From reading the IPCC Reports, I
think models aside, climatologists understand at least enough to more or
less rule out rises in sea level of ten meters in 25 years.
In any case, as I pointed out in a separate posting, the real
uncertainty has to do with the structure of the Antarctic ice cap and
what is likely to happen to that.  That issue is different from the
question of modelling the atmosphere and global climate.  I think you
are mixing apples and oranges in your comment.
-- 
Leonard Evens       len@math.nwu.edu      491-5537
Department of Mathematics, Norwthwestern University
Evanston Illinois

I came across an add on a news group that claimed you could make $40,000 
to $50,000 in a few weeks with an investment of only a couple of dollars.  
I was skeptical but I figured it only costs a few dollars what could it 
hurt.  I have limited down side potential a few dollars and possibly a very H
high upside potential.  If you are interested you pleasecan visit my web site 
where I will explain it in further detail.
http://members.aol.com/randy6036/money/

Andy & Sophie Smout wrote:
> 
> Greetings!
> 
> I am interested in any information on the predicted change in sea-level as
> a consequence of global warming. Does anyone know what the current climatic
> models say? I think I have heard numbers up to 10 metres quoted, but don't
> know the source of this information and whether it is in any sense recent
> or reliable. Also, I would be interested to know wheter any rise in sea
> level would be the same over the whole surface of the earth, or would be
> greater near the equator.
> 
> Does anyone know the current state of the art? Specifically, I would like
> to move to the seaside in Scotland, but don't want to buy a house that will
> be underwater after 25 years or so... :-)
> 
> Andy Smout
In addition to the other sources recommended to you, look at Climate
Change 1995 by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
Briefly, most projections place the increase at tens of centimeters,
not meters over the next century.   A seaside house is not likely to be
under water in 25 years.   However, if it is on low lying land which is
now just about at sea level, it could be affected more by storm surges
than in the past.  There are of course a lot of uncertainties in these
projections.  The joker in the deck is possible unstability in part of
the antarctic ice sheet.   If that collapsed, there could be
catastrophic rises in sea level.   However, the IPCC considers this
unlikely, at least in the short term.
-- 
Leonard Evens       len@math.nwu.edu      491-5537
Department of Mathematics, Norwthwestern University
Evanston Illinois

In Article<328B5980.65D0@chatt.mindspring.com>,  writes:
> Path: news1.stny.lrun.com!news-out.internetmci.com!InternetMCI.com!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!news.sgi.com!iag.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet
> From: Daniel Earl Bacon 
> Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
> Subject: Rawinsonde Question
> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:40:16 -0800
> Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
> Lines: 8
> Message-ID: <328B5980.65D0@chatt.mindspring.com>
> Reply-To: dbacon@mindspring.com
> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-65-245.dialup.mindspring.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Server-Date: 14 Nov 1996 14:40:36 GMT
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I)
> 
> Is there any information on reading raw Rawinsonde Data and also are
> there any blank Stuve, Hodograph, and Skew-T Diagrams
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 				Daniel Bacon
Daniel,
	What kind of information do you need?  I think I can pull up my old 
code sheets and give you the complete format.  Regarding the diagrams, I wish 
I had a nickel for every Skew-T I plotted and/or analyzed, but I wouldn't know 
where to get them, other than from the government printing shop....
							Ray

Hi,
Can someone tell me where I can get the latest version of
FERRET (V4.30) from ?
The original ftp-server abyss.pmel.noaa.gov is very slow and
a mirror found at ftp.saitama-u.ac.jp is down.
Thanx
Bernd
bfischer@meteo.uni-koeln.de

Scott Lindstrom wrote:
> I believe the original poster was talking about March, however, and I do not
> recall it being that cold there in March, although I confess my knowledge of
> State College climo is not what is used to be.
> 
Jan 18, 1994 according to my Penn State Meteorology 1994 Sweatshirt 
produced by the Chi Epsilon Pi Meteorology Honor Society at Penn State.
> I would also claim that -25C is certainly out of the ordinary in SC.  
I agree.

In article <19961113171401.MAA26575@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
  wrote:
>I'd like to get/read the following paper:
>Bonner, W.D, 1968: "Climatology of the low level jet."  Monthly Weather
>Review, v96, pp833-850.
>
>Does anyone know if it is archived anywhere on the net,  or what library
>in the Boston, MA to Manchester, NH area might have it?
American Meteorological Society (AMS) journals are not routinely 
archived on the net.  Monthly Weather Review is one of the premier
journals in the field and should be available at many university
libraries, especially those with meteorology programs.  If you
can't find the article then you should be able to obtain it by
interlibrary loan.
In addition, the AMS headquarters is located in Boston.  So you 
could consider going directly to the source. :-)
(By the way, the article is a classic and is strongly recommended
to anyone with an interest in the low-level jet.)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond W. Arritt   e-mail rwarritt@iastate.edu
Dept of Agronomy, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011 USA
"I'm warming to the idea of an asylum." - JWL

In article <19961113171401.MAA26575@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
  wrote:
>I'd like to get/read the following paper:
>Bonner, W.D, 1968: "Climatology of the low level jet."  Monthly Weather
>Review, v96, pp833-850.
>
>Does anyone know if it is archived anywhere on the net,  or what library
>in the Boston, MA to Manchester, NH area might have it?
American Meteorological Society (AMS) journals are not routinely 
archived on the net.  Monthly Weather Review is one of the premier
journals in the field and should be available at many university
libraries, especially those with meteorology programs.  If you
can't find the article then you should be able to obtain it by
interlibrary loan.
In addition, the AMS headquarters is located in Boston.  So you 
could consider going directly to the source. :-)
(By the way, the article is a classic and is strongly recommended
to anyone with an interest in the low-level jet.)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond W. Arritt   e-mail rwarritt@iastate.edu
Dept of Agronomy, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011 USA
"I'm warming to the idea of an asylum." - JWL

Please note, my elevated response is not to be interpreted as an attack on
this individual. This is my opinion only. He happened to respond in a
manner that has allowed me to "vent my spleen at the world" and not at him.
> But that doesn't give you the right to do it on _company_ time. You
> see, it's not _terribly_ unreasonable for someone to mistake your
> statements for OFFICAL announcements from your company.
For OFFICIAL announcements, see the PRESS RELEASE section of Their OFFICIAL
WEB SITE. Anything that an employee says is just that. Ever noticed the
disclaimers?
And if someone does think it is OFFICIAL, they are in need of further
education.
Now, the NWS is not a company in the classic business sense. It is a
government agency. Weather is what it does. It does not seem reasonable to
me to  have my employer tell me "be quiet" when it comes to matters of my
profession. If I were arguing Tide v. Cheer while using their equipment,
then restraint would seem reasonable. 
>  
> [mass deletia]
> 
> James
> 
> -- 
> Consulting Minster for Consultants, DNRC
> 
Steve 
The Surly Engineer, DNRC
-- 
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Steve Darsey, N5PMB   "You are only coming through in waves....          |
|sdarsey@onramp.net     Your lips are moving,                             |
|                       but I can't hear what your saying" -=Pink Floyd=- |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|

"Steve Boyd"  wrote:
>I need information about the Hurricane that hit Britain in 1987 - can
>anyone help ?
>
I think there is a problem here in that the term 'hurricane' is 
used in different ways.  Hurricane Strength winds are winds 
greater than 64kt (75 mph).  A hurricane is a warm cored storm 
with winds of hurricane force.  However hurricane force winds can 
occur in hurricanes (tropical systems) as well as non-tropical 
systems.
It is my understanding that the system in 1987 was a non-tropical 
system (extra-tropical), ie not a hurricane, with hurricane 
strength winds.
Steve

Leonard Evens wrote:
> 
> Might I beg to differ with you.  From reading the IPCC Reports, I
> think models aside, climatologists understand at least enough to more or
> less rule out rises in sea level of ten meters in 25 years.
> 
> In any case, as I pointed out in a separate posting, the real
> uncertainty has to do with the structure of the Antarctic ice cap and
> what is likely to happen to that.  That issue is different from the
> question of modelling the atmosphere and global climate.  I think you
> are mixing apples and oranges in your comment.
> 
> --
> Leonard Evens       len@math.nwu.edu      491-5537
> Department of Mathematics, Norwthwestern University
> Evanston Illinois
This isn't entirely true.  Besides the Antarctic ice sheets, another
possible cause of rapid climate change could be the oceanic thermohaline 
circulation (deep water formation in the North Atlantic).  Ice core
samples from the end of the last ice age (Younger Dryas event) show
rapid fluctuations in the climate system with multiple transitions from
near glacial to relatively warm conditions in periods as quick as a
decade.
This is not an ice sheet phenomenon rather an adjustment in the
large-scale ocean/atmosphere circulation.  I agree the chances of rapid
climate change are close to nil for the immediate future but modeling
of these past climate changes and its application to future climate
change scenarios remains an open question. Whether the ice sheets or the 
ocean is more important depends to some degree on whether you are
speaking to a geologist or an oceanographer. Comprehensive climate
models which have land processes, realistic topography, and dynamic
oceans exist but have considerable room for improvement.  Don't wait for
them to improve before buying a house however.
Aaron Brasket
Program in Atmosphere and Ocean Sciences
University of Colorado

Allan Campbell  wrote in article
<56fhbc$4c@news.inforamp.net>...
> 	The synoptic codes used internationally to report various types of
> weather contain several code posibilities to report  categories of
> drifting and blowing snow.  There are corresponding weather map
> plotting symbols, variations of the crossed arrows,  for the codes.  I
> suspect  that Purdue is using one of the symbols in a generic sense to
> represent simply blowing snow.
Looking at some of my hand-plotted maps from 11 years ago yesterday,
I realized that such is another of the many reasons they are superior to
present computer or graphically - generated ones. (though tedious to
produce).
Joseph

Ed Bachmann  wrote:
>Can anyone give me the location of an
>online dry bulb-wet bulb temperature
>relative humidity table?
>Thanks,
>Ed Bachmann
You can find an online calculator at:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1030/atmcalc.html
I found this amoung an extensive list of online calculators at:
http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/GradPhysics.html
a substantial reference to say the least.
Jim Copeland

Weather Scratch  wrote in article
<328B6E75.5371@wxscratch.com>...
> I have the highest respect for Chuck, and hope each of you feel the
> outrage and make your opinions known on this thread.
I agree.  Sad that a person at the NWS (which the public supports, like it
or
not) is asked not to educate our public via I-net.  I can never say
anything
too bad about someone willing to do so; especially since many people in
prominent positions are afraid of saying anything which might jeopardize
their status, as Chuck mentioned.
> Does this mean my employer should not let me use this system to express
> my opinion??? What happened to the first Amendment? What happened to
> free speech?
Many people will disagree with me, but true communism would provide
much more freedom than democracy.
> Just as I figured - the NWS will no longer exist in the next few years
> as they will be forced to privitize and then it really gets sticky for
> all of us in the met community, so who will be in control then WSI,
> Kavouras, Contel, Accu-Weather or others????.
:(  One more organization (such as the phone company) separated to
many, causing confusion and wasted resources because of necessary
competition between them.
> Just my personal opinions! and yes, I used our companies system to post
> this! Haven't gotten a memo forbidding my use of the Internet YET!! John 
I suppose the same things which people consider a blessing can be a
curse.
Joseph

Hello everyone!
I'm currently working on blowing and drifitng snow, and would like to
estimate the visibility during these processes, and desspite having the
visual range in metres, I do not know how to delineate each category.
Would anyone know the specific visual ranges applied to good, fair and
poor visibility in Canada?  Any reference would be of great help.
Sincere Thanks, Merci!
Stephen
visual range in meters, I would like to classify this into either good,
fair or poor visibility.  Does anyone know what ranges are used to
ca 

>    What's the difference between atmospheric pressure at high altitudes
> compared to atmospheric pressure at high lattitudes,  specifically of
> carbon dioxide.(is there any?)
Atmospheric pressure is simply *weight of air above a location*.  Thus,
it decreases quite rapidly as altitude increases.  Air is typically warmer
at low latitudes than high, thus air pressure is usually higher at high
latitudes at similar elevations.  That is not strictly true, semi-permanent
'subtropical highs' being an exception.
I do not know much about CO2 concentrations.  I suppose vegetation
more typical of tropical locations decreases it in our lower atmosphere,
and more is humanly produced at mid-latitudes where most people live.
> How does insolation compare,   between high altitude locals,   in the
> tropics and sub-tropics,  with   higher lattitude locals--  boreal &
> tundra-- (both high altitude and sea-level areas)? Do  higher altitudes, 
> near the equator,  recieve more light for a given period of time vs.   a
> higher lattitude, say arctic tundra- (provided the sun is out),--low
> altitude, for the same period of time? how about a high altitude local at
> a high lattitude?          
The way you use altitude and latitude is confusing.  Instantaneously,
insolation is typically highest at low latitudes because solar elevation
is greater.  During Summer though, daily insolation at high latitudes
can be greater than at low latitudes because day length becomes as
great as 24 hours near poles; thus less solar energy is instantaneously
received, but for a much longer period.  Day length at the equator is
always about 12 hr 6 min.  Day length is very small at high latitudes
during Winter though, some locations receiving none or very little
solar energy.  Cloudiness greatly affects insolation.
Insoltaion is (obviously) higher at high altitudes than low because
our atmosphere scatters and absorbs solar energy on its way down.
Special cloud configurations of can cause the opposite, but such is
rare.
>  I'm a life sciences student at arizona state west whose geography 
> knowledge is lacking. Any help with these questions would be appreciated.
You may e-mail me with more specific questions (hopefully worded
more accurately :) ).
Joseph

Does anyone know the term for when it rains real fish?
Thanks in anticipation!
Steve

In article <328b2bf6.0@internexus1.internexus.co.uk>, dr.s.wright@mail.internexus.co.uk (Stephen Wright) writes:
> Does anyone know the term for when it rains real fish?
> Thanks in anticipation!
> Steve
> 
Yes.  " There is something fishy in the air."   :.)
-- 

Hello,
I have decided to post a response to Mr. Doswell's essay from someone who
wishes to remain anonymous, but has agreed to let me post it wherever it
is relevant. It is an interesting response to the ongoing thread. This
article has been modified only insofar as the name, email address, and the
paragraph containing the request for anonymity have been deleted.
Gilbert
*******************************************************************************
Gilbert Sebenste                                                     ********
Internet: sebenste@geog.niu.edu    (My opinions only!)                 *****
Owner of the Storm Chaser Homepage/SCH Canada                           ***
URL: http://taiga.geog.niu.edu/chaser/chaser.html                       **
SCH Canada URL: http://taiga.geog.niu.edu/chaser/canada                  *
THE STORM MACHINE: http://taiga.geog.niu.edu/chaser/machine/            *
Never rage against THE STORM MACHINE!                                    *
*******************************************************************************
----------Begin forwarded message-------------
> 	The recent points made by several in wx-talk concerning NWS
> employee access to the Internet are pretty much on the mark.  I would
> like to add a few of my own and issue a warning to NWS meterorlogists
> concerning posting as private citizens.
> 
> 	You must understand that the NWS will undergo a radical
> restructuring over the next few years.  Over 600 meteorologists and 
> other support personnel will be cut from Federal service to meet end-
> state staffing levels.  These cuts are mandated to take place at 
> headquarters levels.  To complicate matters, there is a major pissing
> contest underway between the NWS and the FAA concerning ASOS, and it
> appears that the procurement and deployment of AWIPS, the capstone of
> the so-called Modernization, will be delayed significantly.
> 
> 	Needless to say, there is considerable wailing and gnashing of
> teeth at headquarters level.  They probably do not need a NWS field
> met going off half-cocked about something.  Spin control and politics
> necessitate the enforcement of ethics regulations.
> 
> 	The recent memo posted by Dr. Friday here in wx-talk stated 
> that postings should be restricted to "official business".  Note that
> "official business" was never strictly defined, thus there is some
> latitude that a NWS met can have as long as good professional judge-
> ment is applied.  I would think that discussions regarding the state
> of the science of meteorology, community outreach, education, etc. are
> acceptable.  However, if "official business" means that which directly
> pertains to the mission of the NWS, you will not see discussions of
> meteorology from NWS mets.
> 
> 	Clearly, the ethics regulations state that inappropriate use
> of U.S. Government-owned equipment is grounds for dismissal.  I would
> take this one step further and urge NWS meteorologists to refrain from
> posting mission-critical items on the Internet.  While such posts are
> well within the employee's rights as a private citizen under the First
> Amendment, recall the Japanese idiom:  The nail that sticks up gets
> hammered down.  It is likely that the reductions-in-force at the head-
> quarters level will reach the field as RIFfed employees exercise what
> is known as "bumping and retreating".  Furthermore, it appears likely 
> that the CWSUs will be discontinued, resulting in about 80 met RIFs.
> Lastly, many WSFOs are "overstaffed", meaning they are above their
> core staffing of five forecasters-in-charge and three plus journeymen 
> forecasters.  Those excess mets will be offered, voluntary or other-
> wise, positions elsewhere.  Simple math shows that there will be a
> massive game of musical chairs.  And those mets that do not keep a
> low profile will likely need to find employment elsewhere.  Believe
> me when I tell you that politics, nast game that it is, will play
> a role in whether an employee stays or goes.
> 
> 	My advice to NWS mets is this:  keep your head down and stay
> as small a target as possible.  Ride out the reductions-in-force and
> take whatever they give you.  And avoid what Scott Adams said was a 
> way for incompetent employees to be placed where they can't hurt 
> anyone...to management.

Bernd:
Was ist das?
Thanks,
Sandy
Oakville, Ontario
In article <56f67a$d3t@news.rrz.uni-koeln.de>, Bernd Fischer  wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Can someone tell me where I can get the latest version of
>FERRET (V4.30) from ?
>The original ftp-server abyss.pmel.noaa.gov is very slow and
>a mirror found at ftp.saitama-u.ac.jp is down.
>
>Thanx
>
>Bernd
>
>bfischer@meteo.uni-koeln.de
>

dr.s.wright@mail.internexus.co.uk (Stephen Wright) wrote:
>Does anyone know the term for when it rains real fish?
Ichthyopluviation?
>Thanks in anticipation!
 (Good thing you thanked me in advance... :))

The NWS exist in the very real world of the Federal Government.  This
is ruled over by none other than our Congress, which has shown more
times than not to be vendictive and petit when dealing with agencies.
There is certainly more than one Congressman who would be more than
willing to make political hay at home by lambasting the NWS for
letting its employees use the government paid for 'net connection and
then get into something controversial.
If you want to see Dilbert in action look no farther than the
Congress.  If I were in the situation of having to explain my
department to Congress everyother day and I could remove one
distractor, I would.  If you don't think that Dept. heads don't spend
a lot of time explaining themselves to Congress then you really don't
understand the stupidity we foster in Washington.  It is not a disease
of the left or right, Rep. or Dem. it is just a bunch of people who
can't control the one or two demagogues in their midst who love to
harass cabinets heads because it makes them feel important.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfathomable in method  Undaunted in Defeat  Unbearable in Victory
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remove the * from the end of the return address or it'll bounce.

Leonard Evens wrote:
> 
> Might I beg to differ with you.  From reading the IPCC Reports, I
> think models aside, climatologists understand at least enough to more or
> less rule out rises in sea level of ten meters in 25 years.
> 
Exactly. With or without the models, they can 'guesstimate' that the
sea level rise will be much less than 10 meters in 25 years.
Bob Evans
-- 
______________________________________
all opinions expressed are mine and
mine alone.
______________________________________

Gilbert L. Sebenste wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have decided to post a response to Mr. Doswell's essay from someone who
> wishes to remain anonymous, but has agreed to let me post it wherever it
> is relevant. It is an interesting response to the ongoing thread. This
> article has been modified only insofar as the name, email address, and the
> paragraph containing the request for anonymity have been deleted.
> 
> Gilbert
> 
> *******************************************************************************
> Gilbert Sebenste                                                     ********
> Internet: sebenste@geog.niu.edu    (My opinions only!)                 *****
> Owner of the Storm Chaser Homepage/SCH Canada                           ***
> URL: http://taiga.geog.niu.edu/chaser/chaser.html                       **
> SCH Canada URL: http://taiga.geog.niu.edu/chaser/canada                  *
> THE STORM MACHINE: http://taiga.geog.niu.edu/chaser/machine/            *
> Never rage against THE STORM MACHINE!                                    *
> *******************************************************************************
> 
> 
> ----------Begin forwarded message-------------
> 
> >       The recent points made by several in wx-talk concerning NWS
> > employee access to the Internet are pretty much on the mark.  I would
> > like to add a few of my own and issue a warning to NWS meterorlogists
> > concerning posting as private citizens.
> >
> >       You must understand that the NWS will undergo a radical
> > restructuring over the next few years.  Over 600 meteorologists and
> > other support personnel will be cut from Federal service to meet end-
> > state staffing levels.  These cuts are mandated to take place at
> > headquarters levels.  To complicate matters, there is a major pissing
> > contest underway between the NWS and the FAA concerning ASOS, and it
> > appears that the procurement and deployment of AWIPS, the capstone of
> > the so-called Modernization, will be delayed significantly.
> >
> >       Needless to say, there is considerable wailing and gnashing of
> > teeth at headquarters level.  They probably do not need a NWS field
> > met going off half-cocked about something.  Spin control and politics
> > necessitate the enforcement of ethics regulations.
> >
> >       The recent memo posted by Dr. Friday here in wx-talk stated
> > that postings should be restricted to "official business".  Note that
> > "official business" was never strictly defined, thus there is some
> > latitude that a NWS met can have as long as good professional judge-
> > ment is applied.  I would think that discussions regarding the state
> > of the science of meteorology, community outreach, education, etc. are
> > acceptable.  However, if "official business" means that which directly
> > pertains to the mission of the NWS, you will not see discussions of
> > meteorology from NWS mets.
> >
> >       Clearly, the ethics regulations state that inappropriate use
> > of U.S. Government-owned equipment is grounds for dismissal.  I would
> > take this one step further and urge NWS meteorologists to refrain from
> > posting mission-critical items on the Internet.  While such posts are
> > well within the employee's rights as a private citizen under the First
> > Amendment, recall the Japanese idiom:  The nail that sticks up gets
> > hammered down.  It is likely that the reductions-in-force at the head-
> > quarters level will reach the field as RIFfed employees exercise what
> > is known as "bumping and retreating".  Furthermore, it appears likely
> > that the CWSUs will be discontinued, resulting in about 80 met RIFs.
> > Lastly, many WSFOs are "overstaffed", meaning they are above their
> > core staffing of five forecasters-in-charge and three plus journeymen
> > forecasters.  Those excess mets will be offered, voluntary or other-
> > wise, positions elsewhere.  Simple math shows that there will be a
> > massive game of musical chairs.  And those mets that do not keep a
> > low profile will likely need to find employment elsewhere.  Believe
> > me when I tell you that politics, nast game that it is, will play
> > a role in whether an employee stays or goes.
> >
> >       My advice to NWS mets is this:  keep your head down and stay
> > as small a target as possible.  Ride out the reductions-in-force and
> > take whatever they give you.  And avoid what Scott Adams said was a
> > way for incompetent employees to be placed where they can't hurt
> > anyone...to management.
Gilbert: I thought my earlier posts were a bit strong armed, but after
reading this - well lets say my posts speak for themselves, as relative
to this reply from the inner core of the NWS. The silencing has begun!
John
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In article <328BA44D.F523DD@math.nwu.edu>, Leonard Evens
 Robert Evans and Andy & Sophie Smout discuss different
amount of sea level rise expected in the future.
Whatever the amount the oceans do rise due to thermal expansion and
increased runoff from ice, the shoreline effect will vary from place to
place. The angle of the slope of the beach determines the rise. Tidal
effects and storm surges augment any rise as does land subsidence (rebound
has the opposite effect)
About ten years ago I contacted the US Corps of Army Engineers in an
attempt to obtain information on where flooding in the Bay Area (San
Francisco) might be expected with any rise in sea level. The Corps
operated a detailed model of he Bay and I thought they might have
simulated such a rise.
They hadn't but I was given advice which I think was and is sensible.
"Look where you have flooding now, and it'll be worse!"
Best wishes
Jim Scanlon
-- 
199 Canal St #8
San Rafael CA
94901
415-485-0540

In <328A31C1.3D8A@grizzly.uwyo.edu> french@grizzly.uwyo.edu writes:
> Dayton Meyer wrote:
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > I'm tired of hearing my brother insist that wind chill is purely
> > fictional.  I disagree completely.
> > 
> > Could somebody please explain the truth?
Spend some time in Nebraska in the winter. You will then understand what wind
chill is. Better yet, send your brother.
Bob Strauss

Bill Gross  wrote in article
<56i2j8$33p@library.airnews.net>...
> If you want to see Dilbert in action look no farther than the
> Congress.  If I were in the situation of having to explain my
> department to Congress everyother day and I could remove one
> distractor, I would.  If you don't think that Dept. heads don't spend
> a lot of time explaining themselves to Congress then you really don't
> understand the stupidity we foster in Washington.  It is not a disease
> of the left or right, Rep. or Dem. it is just a bunch of people who
> can't control the one or two demagogues in their midst who love to
> harass cabinets heads because it makes them feel important.
Instead of just being menacing (but with a purpose) as with
my previous post, what I am trying to say relates to your last
sentence.  Weather is evidently not so important that people
are not hired because of their political and religious beliefs,
their appearance, etc. even if you can prove someone is much
more qualified.  Even for most military operations, it evidently
is not crucial; though some meteorologists would wish for you
to believe else.  And that is what is important.  We have a
government and economics system, but are undaunted at war
very often :)
The little amount of resources required to participate in I-net
activities is trivial compared to much larger forms of misused
resources.
Joseph

Joseph Bartlo  wrote in article
<01bbd32c$bcfdec00$4306bacc@jbartlo.ptd.net>...
> We have a government and economics system, but are undaunted
> at war very often :)
Well, I meant to say we have a crummy government and economics
system; but are not often undaunted at war, which I think many
people are aware of.
Joseph

Hi:
We've been developing very similar methods to yours using nonparametric
regression and nonlinear dynamics ideas
I'll be interested in taking a look at what you have done and discussing
possible collaboration along the lines you indicate below.Please contact
me by phone or email. You can get references to some of our group's work
on
http://publish.uwrl.usu.edu/faculty/lall.html
Upmanu Lall
In article <328A96EE.3447@icc.ru>, ZIRUS  wrote:
>      Suggestions for Cooperation in Long-Term Forecasting
>                    of Natural Processes
> 
>     Our methodology   of  long-term  forecasting  for  natural
> processes has been developed  by  professor  A.P.Reznikov  and
> successfully   applied   for   practical   needs.  Forecasting
> investigations  were  carried  out  in   the   Laboratory   of
> Forecasting of Natural and Climatic Processes for the Siberian
> Institute of Energetics,  Siberian Branch,  Russian Academy of
> Sciences (SEI SB RAS, Irkutsk).
>     On the basis of this methodology,  a  set  of  forecasting
> methods  has  been  developed,  in  paticular,  the  method of
> analog-compatible  relations  in  long-term   forecasting   of
> natural processes,  and methods based on application of neural
> nets - descrete and continuous learning systems.
>     As the  parameters  for  applied  forecasting  of  natural
> processes we have chosen: air temperature, sediments, duration
> of  heating  and  vegetation periods,  river run-off (output),
> input to water-storages,  solar activity,  increase  of  flora
> biomass,   consumption   of   electric   energy  dependent  on
> meteorological states of Nature.
>     The presence  of  accumulated  information  as  a  set  of
> statistic time series is the prerequisite of the  forecasting.
> The  period  of  the  forecasting  may  be 1 to 25 years.  The
> following forecasting evaluation indices  were  used:  monthly
> average, season average, average for many years, etc.
>     The methods were impletmented in the form of an integrated
> software  system  for  IBM  PC  in  the  intelligent  software
> environment ZIRUS (Russian abbreviation) which  was  developed
> in   parallel  with  the  methodology  in  the  Laboratory  of
> Artificial Software  Systems  (Irkutsk  Computing  Centre,  SB
> RAS).   Presently,   the  athors  of  ZIRUS  actively  develop
> forecasting methods.
>     The principial publications on the problem are:
> 
>     - Reznikov   A.P.  Very  long-term  forecasts  of  natural
> processes for the National Economy.-Boulder. Colo., ERL, 1992.
>     - Reznikov   A.P.  Determinate-probabilitic  self-learning
> information  system(DVOIS).//  Izvestia   Acad.   Sci.   USSR,
> Energetics and transport.,1969,N3. (in Russian)
>     - Reznikov A.P.  Processing of accumulated information  in
> problematic situations.-Moscow, Nauka,1976.(in Russian)
>     - Reznikov A.P.  Prediction  of  natural  processes  by  a
> self-learning  system (physis,  informational,  methodological
> aspects).  -Novosibirsk:Nauka,  Siberian  Branch,  1982.   (in
> Russian)
>     - Reznikov A.P.  Analog-compatible relations in  long-term
> forecasting    of    natural    processes   -   methodological
> aspects.//Geography and Natural Resourses,1986,N3.(in Russian)
>     - Abasov  N.V.  An  approach  to computer simulation and a
> tool system to support it (ZIRUS)  //  Proc.  Intern.  Sympos.
> "Software Technology of the 1990s" (Kiev,  1991).- Kiev: Univ.
> Press, 1991.
> 
>     If the contracting party is interested in considering  the
> problem we could carry out the following works:
> 
>     1) development   of   forecasting   procedures   for   the
> specificity of definite regions (for example,  river  run-off,
> average  air temperature,  sediments and etc.) with the period
> of forecasting up to 25 years.  We  could  develop  additional
> procedures  for  the  purpose  of  verification of forecasting
> processes and physical interpretation of the forecasts;
> 
>     2) selling of the forecasting  software  system  with  the
> technology of exploitation and its further improvement;
> 
>     3) delivery of series of lectures on forecasting  problems
> (methodology of forecasting,  specific forecasting approaches,
> peculiaries   of   forecasting   tracks,    technologies    of
> implementation   of  forecasting  methods  in  the  artificial
> software environment).
> 
>     We are  ready  to  discuss  any  other  aspects   of   the
> cooperation.
> 
> 
>     Laboratory  of Forecasting  of Natural and Climatic
>     Processes of the SEI SB RAS, Professor A.P.Reznikov
> 
>     Laboratory of Artificial  Software Systems, ICC  SB
>     RAS, Dr. N.V.Abasov
> 
> 
>     Our e-mail:   zirus@icc.ru
> 
>                                                12.10.96
-- 
Upmanu Lall
Professor
Utah Water Research Laboratory  & Civil Env. Eng.
Utah State University 
Logan UT 84322-8200
(801)-797-3184
FAX: 801-797-3663