Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: pavan1@student.monash.edu.au (Paul van den Bergen)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:40:16 GMT
>username wrote:
snip snip
>>I have to make a decision whether or not I should actually be going all
>>the way for a PhD. Having seen the cases of many a friends and after
>>reading posts, I am starting to wonder if a PhD is really worth all the
>>time, money and effort. Any help would do.
If you want to do a PhD because it will get you more money, then you
are doing it for the wrong reason. There is only one reason to do a
PhD and that is because you can and because you want to. No if nor
buts...
The PhD is a hard slog, a largely self managed 3-5 year research
program, usually in an area you have never even touched more than
superficially before. The problem is that an employer sees only the
subject. Eg., in my case, "Immiscible Polymer Blends". On the resume,
however what you should really put is that you are a competent
manager, selfmotivated, withextensive research and self teaching
skills, and able to operate the following equipment (long list of
experimental techniques, eg. DSC, DMTA, XRD, Tensile test, Impact
test, Rheology, FTIR, etc.etc.etc.).
People say sell yourself. This is not about hard sell, this is about
communcating effectively with your prospective employer. You may be
the best man for the job, but he'll never know that because you don't
tell him.
On the other hand, someone needs to teach employers the value of
flexable people. My greatest assett to an employer is not the
knowledge in my head, it's that I can pick up any subject at all and
learn how to do it. Sure it may take time (which any employer is going
to begrudge, because time=$) but I can do it.
PS. Anyone wanna give me a part time job while I finish my PhD? :-)
########## Paul van den Bergen
#### # c/- Materials Eng., Monash University
# #### # Clayton VIC 3168 Australia
#### # # pavan1@student.monash.edu.au
# ###### ph. +613 9905 3597
# # fax. +613 9905 4940
##### meow *cough* feathers
I feel it is my duty to warn everyone that there is an
international consortium of powerful people who get
together and facilitate the distribution of conspiracy
theories in order to keep the minds of the masses off
the real issues that are affecting the world (whatever
they may be...)
Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: "Arthur E. Sowers"
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:51:27 -0500
On 14 Nov 1996, Ari G. Caliskan wrote:
> >A friend once told me something about love and marriage. He expressed
> the
> >idea that in love and matrimony there is no such thing as the one perfect
> >person. Rather he said, there are many people who are right for each
> other.
> >
> >Same in learning. A bright person can find several fields that are
> right.
> >So why chose one with dim economic prospects?
>
> I agree to some degree. I think there is a middle ground between finding a
> subject that you like and job prospects. The only other option for Ph.Ds
> is to find an academic position. This is certainly not easy, but you'll
> more than likely do what you want to do.
>
> I struggled with this question about a few months ago. I got into grad
> school to get a Ph.D. But after talking to a bunch of people who have been
> through it, and from what I have seen, a Ph.D. in engineering is not
> really what industry is looking for nowadays...unless you have worked on a
> project that really relates to what industry is doing. Plus, research
> nowadays is not what it used to be. It very much applied, thus there is no
> real fundamental work performed. Here at Ford, we are limited by cost and
> time. And a lot of research that you should do, isn't even considered just
> because of money.
>
> Anyways, this is the direction industrial research is heading, so a Ph.D.
> might not really help you train you for such a career. Just something to
> think about.
>
> Ari
>
>
I would make just one footnote to this post: If the PhD is in an area
sought after by industry for its commercial potential, AND you can see
that it has long range security, then it might be worth it. RApidly
changing areas such as computer technology MIGHT be dangerous if new
technolgy obsoletes an existing technology. Example: mechanical engineers
making incremental progress in improving hard disk performance (etc) could
get wiped out if somebody can make flash memory (an innovative
leap) cheaper.
Art Sowers
(http://www.access.digex.net/~arthures/homepage.htm)
Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: "Arthur E. Sowers"
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:00:43 -0500
On 13 Nov 1996, Mike Baker wrote:
> In article <3289F846.1CF3@OVPR.UGA.EDU> Richard Logan writes:
> >Juan Vitali wrote:
> >> In fact
> >> you are handicapped 'cause everybody thinks you are overqualified for
> >> just about any job. STAY THE HELL AWAY OF THE PHD ROUTE....
> >
> >If you have a Ph.D. you always have the option of not including it on
> >your resume. When I finished my MS in physics (1987), I proudly put the
> >degree on my resume and went off to look for work. After several months
> >of looking with not so much as a form letter response to my resume I was
> >desperate for money. I removed all my degrees from my resume, including
> >my undergraduate degree, and made up a story that I had to drop out of
> >college after two years and had worked various jobs out of state. I
> >credited the skills and knowledge I developed in graduate school to
> >several fictitious companies. I don't know if it's ethical to hide your
> >achievements, but I got a fairly good paying job within four weeks.
> >
>
> I don't think it is unethical to leave your degrees off
> your resume, but lying about ficticious companies is most
> certainly unethical. If I discovered an employee had done
> this he would be fired immediately. How can an employer
> trust you to have ethical judgement after discovering that?
I tend to agree with Mike on leaving degrees off of resumes. I've heard of
many who have done it and it actually helped them get a decent job. Lying
on the other hand borders or actually IS in the neighborhood of fraud and
cheating and that would bother me a lot. However, it should also be
pointed out that employers and even governments (even in highly respected
countries that promote themselves for fairness, justice, freedoms, etc.)
have lied to their employees and citizens on occassions. Now, what can you
do about that?
> On the other hand, whoever hired you after four weeks obviously
> did not do an adequate job of verifying your resume and
> references.
Checking references is not done as much as it should be. People I employed
went on to other jobs and sometimes I got no calls from a future
prospective boss. However, there are two sides to this issue; there are
bosses out there who give lousey references to their subordinates
regardless of how good they are. And, you often can't tell this before you
go and work with them.
> Mike
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael C. Baker baker@groves.neep.wisc.edu
> Engineering Research Bldg., 1500 Engineering Dr., Madison, WI 53706
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Subject: Minor update
From: "Arthur E. Sowers"
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:23:56 -0500
From time to time I post a list of career/job related URL and internet
resources. If anyone has found something of interest, let me know, either
privately (by email) or by a reply post, and I'll have a look and add it
to my list. I have included my own essays, which have been copied to a
number of web sites, and externally linked at others, as well. These
essays carry a permission for non-exclusive but royalty-free rights to be
reproduced by anyone as long as they are not receiving any fees above
reproduction costs. I have also granted permission for the reproduction of
portions (see the actual text of the copyright if you are interested).
Much of the essays was directed at having graduate students and postdocs
understand politics in academia and the deteriorating commitment on the
part of institutions towards faculty.
As far as I understand, the average ratio of applications per faculty job
in academia (universities and colleges) is still in the hundreds to one or
worse.
Its sad but at a recent advertisement for jobs at a new Wal-Mart store in
the southern Delmarva area (the Delaware-Maryland-Virginia peninsula),
there were 1200 applicants for 350 jobs. Or, in other words, a finite
(rather than nearly infinitesimal) chance to get a job.
Brighter news was on the front page of the Wall Street Journal (November
12, 1996), in the Work Week column: It says:
"In Indiana, where the jobless rate is 2.7% in some areas, companies hire
'anyone who can show up for work two days in a row,' says Doug Peters,
president of the Richmond-Wayne County Chamber of Commerce." At the end of
the article it says "Your recruiting plan is more important than your
marketing plan" now.
I don't know where the health care delivery market is heading, but there
were studies that came out about a half a year ago that the job market for
MDs may be leveling off, too. For those who may be old enough to know, the
market for dentists also dropped off some about a decade ago and I
remember several dental schools that were closed. Probably what
contributed to that was that some were probably also in financial
dificulty and I'd like to go back and research that, too.
The computer "whips" still project expansions (the last figure I
remember seeing was a 16% industry wide increase next year) for the next
half decade or more.
Art Sowers, PhD
________________________________________________________________________
| rev Sep 24,1996 "Contemporary Problems in Sci Jobs" (=CPSJ) essays: |
| a 2nd Edition of CPSJ is available with conditional unrestricted |
| royalty-free reproduction rights. Earlier versions of |
| the "Contemporary Problems in Science Jobs" essays may be found at: |
| http://www.mbb.yale.edu/acb/ |
| http://chemistry.com/ (dig around) |
| http://his.com/~graeme/cpsj.html and ***/cpsj2.html |
| http://www.access.digex.net/~arthures/homepage.htm (my WWW site) |
| http://www.netcom.com/~stanton/biojobs.html (external link) |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| (rev Oct 12,'96) Some Net resources on PhD careers & job market: |
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| Nat Acad study on where PhDs eventually go: |
| http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/grad/ |
| " " / " / " / " /appendixc.html |
| Goodstein Report: http://www.caltech.edu/~goodstein |
| Nasty politics: htttp://his.com/~graeme/pandp.html |
| "The Scientist"- newspaper about scientist careers: |
| http://www.the-scientist.library.upenn.edu |
| gopher://ds.internic.net/11/pub/the-scientist (txt, partials) |
| AAAS (the situation of postdocs): |
| http://www.edoc.com/nextwave/forums_postdoc/ |
| AAUP Listserver: majordomo@igc.apc.org - leave sub=blank - |
| put in text of message: subscribe aaup-general |
| AAUP email address: aaup@igc.apc.org |
| Other scientist employment resource info can be found at: |
| http://his.com/~graeme/employ.html (best I've seen yet) |
| http://saa49.ucsf.edu/psa/ |
| YSN website is at: http://www.physics.uiuc.edu/ (hunt around) |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| the following list of website URIs need the "http://" URL prefix |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| From Wall St. Journal (Sept 20,1996, p.B1) article on Net job hunting |
| America's Job Bank: www.ajd.dni.us |
| CareerPath: www.careerpath.com |
| Online Career Center: www.occ.com |
| CareerMosaic: www.careermosaic.com |
| Help Wanted USA: iccweb.com (not a typo) |
| Monster Board: www.monster.com |
| E-Span: www.espan.com |
| Career Magazine: www.careermag.com |
| Career City: www.careercity.com |
| NationJob Net: www.nationjob.com |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| (revised Oct 15, 1996) OTHER RELATED Website URIs: |
| NES (very mild) pegasus.uthct.edu/nes.html |
| Top Job www.topjobusa.com |
| Fisk Book www.agu.org/careerguide (go for links) |
| Career CD-ROM www.careertoolbox.com (sponsor: ChavisRegal)|
| KellyScientific www.kellyservices.com |
| Space Jobs www.spacejobs.com |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: "Arthur E. Sowers"
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:43:35 -0500
I am responding to this both by a reply post as well as email. This sounds
like a fairly typical story which applies to a large fraction of people
who enter PhD programs with idealistic and noble intentions and then when
they come out, nobody is there with either the "attaboy" or the job.
I have been on this newsgroup for two years cautioning everyone against
the graduate school route. Its nice to go after science, real research,
and such lofty pursuits, but those who succeed in getting "something"
decent in the line of a job will be few and far between. Especially bad
are the university/academia positions where grants are REQUIRED not only
for tenure, but also for large if not complete salary sources (i.e. you
lose not only your job if you lose your grant, but you irreversibly lose
your career). Stoping at a MS degree and pursuing "mundane" work in
industry will probably be the best route to sustanance and much better
lateral mobility. I have written a series of essays on my own web page,
primarily concerned with jobs in academia.
Good luck to all of you
Art Sowers
(http://www.access.digex.net/~arthures/homepage.htm)
===== no change to below, included for reference and context=====
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 jbszee@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> username wrote:
>
> >There has been a lot of talk here about the bad situation for PhD's in
> >the biological sciences who just end up going thru one postdoc after the
> >other. But what about those who get doctorates in one of the engineering
> >fields such as civil, mechanical or chemical. What is the job market like
> >for those who have doctorates in engineering fields.
>
> I don't know much about the biological sciences area, but most of my
> engineering Ph.D. friends seem to change jobs rather frequently, with
> about a 3-5 year cycle. The only exceptions to this are those who
> have found positions with the GOVERNMENT (NIST, National Labs, NCAR,
> NOAA, etc). These positions seem to be in effect tenured positions.
> Base funding and major research programs seem to be fairly stable.
> Once in these positions, even if base funding goes away, the
> reputation of the institution and the researcher seem to assure
> continued funding. Those who got into the ACADEMIC arena immediately
> after their degree also do well, although they may have to move around
> (shorter cycle) until they find the appropriate university. People
> that went to research labs for MAJOR CORPORATIONS (e.g. G.E., etc.)
> are constantly under the threat of having their research funding cut,
> and having to go into the operating groups, or having to leave
> altogether. I went to work for a SMALL COMPANY. Some of my friends
> asked me how I felt working for a small firm, and I answered (smugly)
> that I had a job, and they were looking. After 5 years, the company
> switched focus, and as the highest paid employee and only Ph.D. (aside
> from the owner/president) my services were no longer required. The
> company was very lean. In my last few months, I was working furiously
> to keep my customers happy, and did not have the time to write more
> proposals. When the existing funding ran out, I was shown the door.
> Because the company was so lean, it could not support me for the time
> it would take to get more funding in place (~6-9 mo review cycle).
> In a larger company, there might have been temporary support, but the
> attitude I am hearing is profit driven-if the company can't forsee
> profit in a fairly short time, funding is cut. In today's lean
> environment, there is simply less funding available for research
> which does not look profitable in a very short time.
>
> >To what extent does the discipline and area of research make a
> >difference. I recall that Dan Riley posted sometime back how he
> >researched different areas in physics before commiting to the area of his
> >choice and how his choice enabled him to end up getting several offers
> >after graduation. But that may have been an isolated case.
>
> I don't think that is really isolated. The problem is that the cycle
> time to get through a Ph.D. program is about the same as the cycle
> time for "hot" areas. If you can predict what will be "hot" 5 years
> from now, you will do just fine. But if you can predict the next hot
> area, then you should also be able to take your money to the race
> track or the stock market, and do even better. I wish I had jumped on
> the Hi-T superconductor bandwagon when I started my Ph.D.
>
> >Recently one gentleman with degrees in materials engineering from MIT
> >posted about his layoff from his research job. Is the job market
> >really that bad for PhD's in all disciplines? How easy (or difficult) is
> >it for someone with a doctorate to find a job as a research engineer?
>
> I'm the guy with the materials engineering degrees from MIT. I have
> not heard of much in the way of research positions. Most of the
> positions I've heard of are very applications (product development)
> oriented. Very often firms are looking for very specific skills and
> experience. Yes, I could have had a job by now, but I am in a rather
> unique (or maybe not) position. Since 1981, my family has lived in 5
> states (NM, UT, MA, MT, CO). Moving was fairly easy when the kids
> were younger, and you could just plug them into elementary school.
> Now, 2 of the kids are in high school, for the first time in their
> lives have friends they have known for >5 years, and are looking
> forward to graduating with them. We are also involved in the
> community (Boy Scouts, etc), and would find it difficult to break and
> reestablish those connections. Further, most of the interest has been
> in places we do not want to go to (e.g. California), after having
> lived in Boulder, Colorado for 6 years. Am I spoiled? Probably. But
> I am tired of being a migrant worker, and I want to stay where my
> family is somewhat established. I've tried all of the local large and
> small companies doing work even remotely related to my background.
> But they are looking for people with very specific skill sets who can
> hit the ground running, and they are able to find them because of the
> generally poor job market for engineers. I even applied for a senior
> technician job with a local company. I was willing to work as an tech
> to learn about the company's research area, then hopefully move up. I
> was interviewed in the waiting room, told I could do the job with one
> hand tied behind my back, but was turned down cold, because I would
> upset the chemistry of the company.
>
> The next option for someone such as myself is to open my own research
> business. Good idea, if you can come up with lots of seed money.
> Otherwise, you must rely on grants, e.g. SBIR, to get started. A 1
> out of 10 acceptance rate for SBIR's proposals is typical. But I
> digress.
>
> Regarding the question: How difficult is it for a Ph.D. to find a
> research engineer position? Two words: good luck. Be prepared to
> beat the bushes, call in favors from everyone you know, and network,
> network, network.... You will probably be able to find something,
> somewhere. But you had better be flexible, cuz you probably won't be
> doing work in your research area, but rather something tangentially
> related to your experience.
>
> >I have to make a decision whether or not I should actually be going all
> >the way for a PhD. Having seen the cases of many a friends and after
> >reading posts, I am starting to wonder if a PhD is really worth all the
> >time, money and effort. Any help would do.
>
> Let me summarize (with homage to David Letterman) the top 10 reasons
> to pursue a Ph.D.:
>
> 10.
> 9.
> 8.
> 7.
> 6.
> 5.
> 4.
> 3.
> 2.
> 1. Because you really want to do it.
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> Dr. James B. Schutz
> Materials Engineer
> Boulder, Colorado
>
>
>
Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: morra@onramp.net (Morra)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 02:34:39 GMT
username wrote:
>There has been a lot of talk here about the bad situation for PhD's in
>the biological sciences who just end up going thru one postdoc after the
>other. But what about those who get doctorates in one of the engineering
>fields such as civil, mechanical or chemical. What is the job market like
>for those who have doctorates in engineering fields.
I would suggest you look into engineering doctorate degrees, such as the DE
(Doctor of Engineering) or the DSc (Doctor of Science), instead of the PhD
(Doctor of Philosophy). The DE and DSc are more generalist and the PhD is
more specialist. Industrial jobs place a much higher value on generalists
than specialists these days. I have a DE and find myself in very high demand
and very well paid, so it seems my investment has paid off. I have noticed
that only a few schools offer these degrees, so you might have some difficulty
in learning of the generalist doctorate options.
>To what extent does the discipline and area of research make a
>difference. I recall that Dan Riley posted sometime back how he
>researched different areas in physics before commiting to the area of his
>choice and how his choice enabled him to end up getting several offers
>after graduation. But that may have been an isolated case.
Companies selling electronic devices would like electrical, mechanical, and
computer science disciplines and research. But this edge is really trivial.
Flexibility, adaptibility, critical thinking, analysis and composition on
a wide range of business issues, ability to abstract, etc. are valued. These
are some common doctorate skills, so a chemical engineer may be generating
capital requests or evaluating epoxies for semiconductor die mount. Offers
after graduation is more related to your chemistry, your spirit, your
willingness to learn, your capacity to learn, how you treat others (especially
non-doctorates, read as humble), etc. These factors are important in an
interview.
>Recently one gentleman with degrees in materials engineering from MIT
>posted about his layoff from his research job. Is the job market
>really that bad for PhD's in all disciplines? How easy (or difficult) is
>it for someone with a doctorate to find a job as a research engineer?
Every one from the CEO down is subject to layoff these days, so don't even
bother worrying or just worry on Saturday mornings for 60 minutes.
>I have to make a decision whether or not I should actually be going all
>the way for a PhD. Having seen the cases of many a friends and after
>reading posts, I am starting to wonder if a PhD is really worth all the
>time, money and effort. Any help would do.
A doctorate is worth it, but this post recommends a DE or DSc, not a PhD.
Subject: HHMI's "Beyond Bio 101" is now on the Web!
From: patdaino@aol.com
Date: 15 Nov 1996 04:52:58 GMT
HHMI's "Beyond Bio 101" is now on the Web!
The Howard Hughes Medical Institute has published a new book
"Beyond Bio 101: The Transformation of Undergraduate Biology
Education." You will find "Beyond Bio 101" in its entirety on
the Web at:
http://www.hhmi.org/BeyondBio101
The book is also available in a free, 88-page, full-color print version,
which you can request online by using the convenient order form
at this Web site. Both the print and online versions are filled with
original reporting and lively graphics. They explore the many
changes taking place in undergraduate biology education and offer
a wide variety of useful ideas and contacts for biology educators.
I hope you find "Beyond Bio 101" interesting and informative.
===============================================
Steffanie Lynch
link2hhmi@drwebby.com
(804) 739-0165 phone
(804) 739-6059 fax
Web outreach coordinator for "Beyond Bio 101"
---
To order a free printed copy of "Beyond Bio 101," visit the Web site,
http://www.hhmi.org/BeyondBio101, or send an e-mail request with
your name, title, and mailing address to: commpub@hq.hhmi.org
---
For a press release and other information on "Beyond Bio 101,"
contact the editor, David Jarmul, at
the Howard Hughes Medical Institute
jarmuld@hq.hhmi.org
(301) 215-8857
Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: cstng@athena.mit.edu (Christine S Ng)
Date: 15 Nov 1996 12:30:40 GMT
|> I would suggest you look into engineering doctorate degrees, such as the DE
|> (Doctor of Engineering) or the DSc (Doctor of Science), instead of the PhD
|> (Doctor of Philosophy). The DE and DSc are more generalist and the PhD is
|> more specialist. Industrial jobs place a much higher value on generalists
|> than specialists these days. I have a DE and find myself in very high demand
|> and very well paid, so it seems my investment has paid off. I have noticed
|> that only a few schools offer these degrees, so you might have some difficulty
|> in learning of the generalist doctorate options.
|>
|>
|> A doctorate is worth it, but this post recommends a DE or DSc, not a PhD.
|>
|>
Here, at MIT, when you are ready to graduate, you can choose whether
you want the title PhD or DSc and the decision is entirely up to
the individual, totally independent of what you do to get the
advanced degreee.
To me, a PhD and DSc mean the same thing. What's important is the
skills, the knowledge and how you approach problem solving. These
factor will be shown on your resume and during the interview. I think
the "title" is totally irrelevant.
Christine
Subject: Re: Engineering PhD's
From: jbszee@worldnet.att.net
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:22:55 GMT
cstng@athena.mit.edu (Christine S Ng) wrote:
>|> I would suggest you look into engineering doctorate degrees, such as the DE
>|> (Doctor of Engineering) or the DSc (Doctor of Science), instead of the PhD
>|> (Doctor of Philosophy). The DE and DSc are more generalist and the PhD is
>|> more specialist. Industrial jobs place a much higher value on generalists
>|> than specialists these days. I have a DE and find myself in very high demand
>|> and very well paid, so it seems my investment has paid off. I have noticed
>|> that only a few schools offer these degrees, so you might have some difficulty
>|> in learning of the generalist doctorate options.
>|>
>|>
>|> A doctorate is worth it, but this post recommends a DE or DSc, not a PhD.
>|>
>|>
>Here, at MIT, when you are ready to graduate, you can choose whether
>you want the title PhD or DSc and the decision is entirely up to
>the individual, totally independent of what you do to get the
>advanced degreee.
>To me, a PhD and DSc mean the same thing. What's important is the
>skills, the knowledge and how you approach problem solving. These
>factor will be shown on your resume and during the interview. I think
>the "title" is totally irrelevant.
>Christine
I chose the Ph.D., because it is immediately recognized, and there is
no question as to your degree. An Sc.D may not offer the "Brand
Recognition" factor.
By the way, which schools offer the DE degree?
Dr. James B. Schutz
Materials Engineer
Boulder, Colorado
Subject: MECHANICAL ENGINEER OR PHYSICIST / NESTLE RESEARCH CENTER LAUSANNE
From: olivier.jordan@chlsnr.nestrd.ch (Olivier Jordan)
Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:46:24 GMT
NESTLE RESEARCH CENTER Lausanne
MECHANICAL ENGINEER OR PHYSICIST
Job description :
The position involves research work in the area of
process modelling, based on the fundamental laws of
physics (e.g. transport phenomena), chemistry (e.g.
hydrolysis), biology (e.g. fermentation) This activity
is very closely linked to the experimental work for
developing new technologies, scaling-up laboratory or
pilot size results, and optimising existing industrial
processes.
Candidates for this challenging position must have:
-chief training in Transport Phenomena and
Computational Fluid Mechanics
-basic training in numerical recipes,
-minimum 1-2 years experience in mathematical
modelling,
-high degree of computer literacy with good
Fortran, C or Pascal programming skills
-experience with PC and Unix workstation,
-excellent verbal and written skills in English,
-be self-motivated enough to work with minimum
supervision,
-communicate easily with Food Technologists and
Engineers involved in the practical development
work.
If you are interested, send your application enclosing a
CV to
Michel Juillerat
Ressources Humaines
NESTLE RESEARCH CENTER
Post Office Box 44
CH-1000 Lausanne 26
SWITZERLAND
